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Evolutionary Biologist says Homosexuality goes against evolution


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Initial post: Nov 19, 2012 1:12:18 PM PST
R.M. says:
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Evolutionary-Mystery-of/135762/?cid=cr&utm_source=cr&utm_medium=en

Professor Barash states that homosexuality is strongly influenced by changes in the genes. However, since homosexuality precludes the passing on of these genes then they can not be inheritable.

The only other explanation is that homosexuality is being caused by some birth defect that is growing more common. Could it be a virus that is affecting eggs and sperm? Or is an enviromental factor such as GMO's or pesticides?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 1:36:32 PM PST
David Félix says:
Maybe you should read the article?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 1:41:17 PM PST
R.M. says:
Maybe you should read the article?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 1:49:26 PM PST
"Critics claim that evolutionary biology is, at best, guesswork. The reality is otherwise. Evolutionists have nailed down how an enormous number of previously unexplained phenomena-in anatomy, physiology, embryology, behavior-have evolved. There are still mysteries, however, and one of the most prominent is the origins of homosexuality."

"It's a mystery" means, to you, "It goes against evolution" ?

The article went on to describe the genetic evidence for a genetic basis to homosexuality / lesbianism, and listed some of the possible evolutionary mechanisms for its propagation.

The term "birth defect" appears nowhere in this article.

This article is not accurately reflected in the OP of this discussion.

Fortunately, everyone can go read the article for themselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 2:05:53 PM PST
F

Posted on Nov 19, 2012 2:36:19 PM PST
The Weasel says:
The same is true of Altruistic behavior. Altruist should die out over time and NOT pass on their genes. Thus altruistic behavior should disappear over time. Yet altruism benefits the society as a whole greatly. Somehow altruistinc organisms continue to be born.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 2:42:37 PM PST
it would be hard to propagate using that method !

no propagation no evolution (assuming that could happen at all).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 2:55:06 PM PST
barbW says:
Isn't it outlandish to think that every natural outcome, no matter how isolated, has been determined or even guided by natural selection?
Stress in the mother in the first 6 weeks of life interferes with hormonal balances and bathes the gestational brain in an unusual mixture. World War II mothers of gay men were studied, because it could be reliably checked where they were and when they were in that overly stressed state. The correlation was not very strong, as we all should expect, because there are many factors.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 3:57:50 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 5:28:43 PM PST
Re OP: " However, since homosexuality precludes the passing on of these genes then they can not be inheritable." This is wrong. It would be correct if there were just one gene involved, but the evidence indicates that there are many. If it is a recessive trait (as is probably the case), the inheritance rules get quite complex.

"The only other explanation is that homosexuality is being caused by some birth defect that is growing more common." This is also wrong. Homosexuality has been around a LONG time, and exists in species other than H. sapiens. And there is no evidence that it is becoming more common: increasing toleration of it simply means that it is more visible.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 7:21:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 19, 2012 7:22:20 PM PST
"because there is no definition for what constitute homosexuality. The scope of human behavior across many axes is so diverse" ... out of all your hate babble you actually say something wise. How does one define homosexuality? The problem with such research/ discussion is that how one defines homosexuality depends on one wants to define homosexuality... and this is a very touchy subject. Maybe all this depends on multiple factors both genetic and environmental, some of which can be passed down through DNA, and some not.

As a related subject, have there not been studies in which organisms have grown fast in population, resulting in a population doubling over and over. Since procreation to replace the parents is no longer a necessary factor of survival of the species since there is overpopualtion, have they not seen weird abnormal sexual stuff showing up within the populations?

Posted on Nov 19, 2012 8:03:30 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 6:13:31 AM PST
noman says:
Same-sex sexual behavior and evolution.
.
Authors:
Bailey, Nathan W.1 nathanb@ucr.edu
Zuk, Marlene1
.
Source:
Trends in Ecology & Evolution; Aug2009, Vol. 24 Issue 8, p439-446

Abstract:
Same-sex sexual behavior has been extensively documented in non-human animals. Here we review the contexts in which it has been studied, focusing on case studies that have tested both adaptive and non-adaptive explanations for the persistence of same-sex sexual behavior. Researchers have begun to make headway unraveling possible evolutionary origins of these behaviors and reasons for their maintenance in populations, and we advocate expanding these approaches to examine their role as agents of evolutionary change. Future research employing theoretical, comparative and experimental approaches could provide a greater understanding not only of how selection might have driven the evolution of same-sex sexual behaviors but also ways in which such behaviors act as selective forces that shape social, morphological and behavioral evolution.

***********

Psicobiología de la homosexualidad masculina: hallazgos recientes. (Spanish).
.
Alternate Title:
Psychobiology of Male Homosexuality: Recent Findings. (English)
.
Language:
Spanish
.
Authors:
ANNICCHIARICO, IVÁN1 idannicchiarici@unal.edu.co
.
Source:
Universitas Psychologica; may-ago2009, Vol. 8 Issue 2, p429-445

Abstract (English):
In this paper, empirical and theoretical reports which question the causes of male homosexuality are examined. According to these reports, male homosexuality differs from female homosexuality in some respects. Additionally, evidence favouring the consideration of male homosexuality as a biological condition is shown: there are brain differences between gay men and heterosexual men, there are genetic and perinatal factors associated to male homosexuality, there are cognitive and behavioral differences between gay and heterosexual men, there are animal models for studying homosexuality; finally, there are negative findings concerning the psychosocial factors associated to male homosexuality.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 6:40:00 AM PST
horse: no propagation no evolution (assuming that could happen at all).

(...he hastened to add...)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 7:08:47 AM PST
re altruism: The Social Conquest of Earth

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 7:24:16 AM PST
Bubba says:
"According to these reports, male homosexuality differs from female homosexuality in some respects."

I wonder if physical, cognitive, and behavioral differences indicate that bisexuality also differs from homosexuality. I suspect that bisexuality is a continuum but that 100% homosexuals are different from bisexuals.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 9:25:38 AM PST
Where do you get the idea that homosexuals don't pass on their genes? Many gay men and women are in conventional marriages at some stage in their life, and others reproduce without benefit of a conventional marriage.

Human sexuality is not necessarily fixed or rigid. It can be fluid, and cross "boundaries".

There is evidence for both heritable and congenital factors in the causation of homosexuality.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 11:32:19 AM PST
Charlie T. says:
Even at the most naive level, this analysis is rubbish. We all carry two copies of genes (alleles). A disease such as cystic fibrosis kills most sufferers before they reproduce, so how has the gene responsible survived? Because it is only expressed if it is in both copies. If one person has one copy of the defective gene and a good version, the good version is expressed. If both parents have one "good" and one "bad" copy of the gene neither will suffer the disease. But one quarter of their children (on average) will inherit two "bad" copies of the gene and be ill. This is school level genetics, not even university level. Homosexuality, assuming it is inherited, is clearly more complicated, but you get the idea (I hope).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 1:05:33 PM PST
R.M. says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 1:14:12 PM PST
R.M. says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 1:39:24 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 2:01:47 PM PST
The Weasel says:
Michael Altarriba says:
re altruism: The Social Conquest of Earth
***
EO Wilson rocks.

Posted on Nov 20, 2012 3:08:53 PM PST
Well, we know environmental factors can affect homosexuality. For example, every older sibling a male has increases the odds that he will be homosexual.

There are also reasonable theories about how gay individuals assist the population's survival as a whole. In many species, mating involves fighting other males for the rights to copulate with a female. Gay individuals will tend not to engage in this behavior, lessening the likelihood that a member of the population will be injured or die from fighting another member of the population. And since these individuals are still part of the same gene pool, they are still likely to look out for and take care of other members of the population. There are many examples where animals live in groups that consist of more than the immediate family.

If we are going to argue that gay genes can't be passed down, we may as well argue for the impossibility of ants and bees, where most of the population is sterile. How do you pass down a trait from a sterile organism to the next generation? Turns out, it isn't actually all that difficult.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 3:37:42 PM PST
It's hard to fully grasp the depths of ignorant, bigoted depravity which would motivate someone to look upon a normal, natural, healthy variation in human sexual orientation as being a birth defect which should be eliminated.

And yet, here it is...

Fortunately such attitudes are as odious and backward to the younger generations today as racist attitudes are to the population at large. Over time, the bigots will change their ways or die off, while the next generations will throw off those shackles of ignorance... and we'll all be the better for it.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2012 3:55:16 PM PST
R.M. says:
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Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  39
Total posts:  319
Initial post:  Nov 19, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 2, 2012

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