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Immune system


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Showing 1-25 of 73 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 4, 2012 4:19:47 PM PST
DonJuan says:
Assuming the flu doesn't kill you, does the immune system gain any positive properties from fighting an infection without the aid of a vaccine as opposed to with the aid of a vaccine?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 4:31:19 PM PST
Rev Otter says:
yes, you essentially develop better immunity (but not 100%) against that strain of flu, just as if you'd been vaccinated for the same strain.

it won't help much in later flu seasons, once the virus has mutated enough.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/disease.htm

Posted on Dec 4, 2012 4:45:55 PM PST
DonJuan says:
What factors contribute to the decline in protective antibodies?

Posted on Dec 4, 2012 4:56:00 PM PST
DonJuan says:
What I meant to ask in the IP is whether I'd be any better off not getting a flu vaccine and just tough it out.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 5:00:31 PM PST
Rev Otter says:
no, you're better off with the vaccine which covers multiple flu strains.

also better off, the people around you who won't get infected while you're "toughing it out".

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 5:02:04 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 5:03:29 PM PST
DonJuan says:
"also better off, the people around you who won't get infected while you're "toughing it out"."

They are the ones that gave it to me, and I don't go out in public when infected. The CDC said this is a bad strain.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 5:09:45 PM PST
DonJuan wrote:
"Assuming the flu doesn't kill you, does the immune system gain any positive properties from fighting an infection without the aid of a vaccine as opposed to with the aid of a vaccine? "
=============================================
Most viral infections confer some immunity, including the flue when the virus does not mutate.

Vaccines are taken in the following cases:

(1) the person is too young to possess adequate immune capacity,

(2) too old to possess robust immune responses,

(3) in cases of specific immune deficiencies,

(4) when the virus or bacteria are too virulent to cause extreme pathology in pregnancy, vital organs, neurons.

For example, the Pertussis Vaccine is taken because the long and protracted coughing in pertussis could devastate the brain and internal organs of many people unfit to stand the extreme task of coughing for many weeks.

Thus, vaccines prime the body through gradual rise in defense capabilities to shorten or abort real infection, spare vital organs and DNA from the intrusion of insulting pathogens.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie

Posted on Dec 4, 2012 5:33:22 PM PST
DonJuan says:
Hello Otter? I addressed your reasoning.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 6:23:39 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 6:44:37 PM PST
DonJuan says:
I was reading about herd immunity where a high percentage of a population gets vaccinated and the rest reap the benefits without vaccination. Is there any reason to think that rather than the high percentage of the population (the strong) getting vaccinations, their naturally built up immunity (without vaccinations) might help out the at risk populations that you wrote about through a sort of herd immunity?

There wasn't really a mechanism for herd immunity on wikipedia. Is there a known one?

Oops. Here is the mechanism:

http://www.virology.ws/2008/05/12/herd-immunity/

Looks like that would be consistent with an affirmative to my question, not that my question is therefore answered to the affirmative.

Posted on Dec 4, 2012 7:57:42 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 8:06:59 PM PST
DonJuan says:
Come on you experts. What up?

Posted on Dec 4, 2012 8:15:08 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 8:15:33 PM PST
DonJuan says:
Here's another one. Let's talk about chicken pox. You all, in your infinite wisdom, thought it'd be a great idea to embrace that disease. Then, you figure out that the same virus can cause shingles later on in life. Just brilliant.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:36:52 PM PST
yes

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:37:21 PM PST
many
and it depends what they are for/against

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:38:45 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 8:43:41 PM PST
depends

i always get sick when i get a shot
so i prefer to risk it without them

downside is that some people die from pneumonia etc
if they did not get a flu shot

some years the flue shot is worthless
sometimes like this year it is supposed to be 90% accurate so would work well

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:40:24 PM PST
maybe
maybe not

you can get the flu from the vaccine
and you are still contagious whetehr you had it or not

the best for other people
is for biz to tell people to stay home
not incentivise them to come to work because they dont have enough sick days and then give it to the whole office who take even more sick days

american 'management' is an oxymoron

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:40:48 PM PST
if you already got it then the vaccine is worthless to you

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:42:12 PM PST
partially

some diseases can be totally eradicated if everyone gets a shot
some like flu change so much it really doesnt matter

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:43:24 PM PST
you will get chicken pox as a kid no matter what
take the vaccine and you still had chicken pox
just not as bad

shingles is an overrated overscared rare disease
that you could get
but most people dont

taht tv vaccine for it is a sales job to make money
more than be helpful to you

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 4, 2012 8:50:01 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 4, 2012 8:53:10 PM PST
DonJuan says:
"you will get chicken pox as a kid no matter what"

Not if you're not exposed to the virus.

"shingles is an overrated overscared rare disease
that you could get
but most people dont"

If you do get it, usually as a complication of cancer or some other disease, it's complete hell. What a way to go, huh?

Posted on Dec 5, 2012 1:19:17 AM PST
Bubba says:
Do you trust your children's immune system to protect them from polio, or do you trust that everybody else's children has been immunized against it? There are many children in Africa who haven't been vaccinated against polio, and guess what disease these children are getting now.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 5:05:31 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 5, 2012 7:01:01 AM PST
DonJuan says:
"Do you trust your children's immune system to protect them from polio, or do you trust that everybody else's children has been immunized against it?"

We need to develop the correct metrics to gauge the strength and variation within individuals' and populations' immune systems, for all types of known but more importantly unknown viruses. Viruses are are so small that in order to discover them, we usually deduce that they exist from symptoms. Viruses can lie dormant within the body for long periods of time, waiting to hit you and hit you hard. Viruses can be very "clever." So I'm more at the verify portion of the trust but verify spectrum, currently.

"There are many children in Africa who haven't been vaccinated against polio, and guess what disease these children are getting now."

This should be investigated, then. Hopefully they want help.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 6:50:03 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 5, 2012 6:56:59 AM PST
yes. You develop one or more clones of "experienced" antibody producing cells which produce antibodies directed at the specific form of the virus which infected you, which prevent it from causing another infection. The next time one of these cells "sees" the virus it will rapidly produce large amounts of the antibody, preventing another infection.

The same exact thing happens if you get the immunization instead of the actual virus.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 6:51:40 AM PST
The reason flu epidemics keep happening is because new forms of the flu virus are constantly emerging for which many people don't have specific immunity. It's not that they're losing immunity to a previous version of the virus.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 6:53:49 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 5, 2012 6:56:28 AM PST
The problem with toughing it out is that you might die. For the typical flu virus, most deaths are caused by complications like bacterial pneumonia, especially in people who are vulnerable due to age or pre-existent illnesses. Occasionally, however, such as in 1918, an extremely virulent form emerges which directly kills healthy young people.

It is stupid to "tough out" something that can be prevented. If for no other reason than you'll feel like crap for many days, as opposed to maybe having a sore arm for a day or two.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 5, 2012 6:55:20 AM PST
some people who develop shingles are left with a severe longlasting chronic pain syndrome in the affected area. It is no joke.
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Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  73
Initial post:  Dec 4, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 9, 2012

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