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The Big Bang Never Happened


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Initial post: Jan 13, 2013 1:51:27 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Mar 27, 2013 8:17:40 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 3:17:26 AM PST
Jean Kilczer says:
Well, Drifter,
Then why are the galaxies still moving away from each other? And if the universe always existed, how do you explain the death of stars - they're all destined to go nova. What will fuel the stars of our universe when the hydrogen is all gone from all the stars?
Jean

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 3:36:24 AM PST
tom kriske says:
All fair points Jean, but you'll get nothing of any value from this putz. Drifter, aka forests, is antithetical to any form of change. In his view, all forms of evolution, whether it be cosmological, biological, cultural, physical, chemical, mineralogical, whatever, are all aspects of some grand academic conspiracy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 7:39:48 AM PST
You might want to refer to the "superuniverse" as being infinite, Drifter; there are countless universes in the superuniverse, and each is finite, of course.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 7:58:54 AM PST
tom kriske says:
Or possibly the "super-duper universe" as being transfinite, which contains an infinite number of super universes, which contain an infinite number of regular ho-hum universes.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 8:03:59 AM PST
And we know this......how?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 9:26:27 AM PST
If I understand your point, you are defining the big bang theory in a narrow way, then using that narrow definition to say it is invalid? I never thought most scientists thought that the big bang theory was like a faux religion creation theory to begin with, simply a mechanism of how matter in our universe got to be like it is now.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 9:33:42 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 9:48:32 AM PST
Jean Kilczer says:
When I lived in Los Alamos, a friend who is as astrophysicist tried to debate a creationist in front of an audience and got nowhere. The guy didn't want to hear about the scientific method, he just wanted to prove that his religious beliefs were true, based on faith. It's hard to argue with the concept of faith, since it's not based on the slow, painstaking accumulation of knowledge over a couple of thousand years.

As for the disbelief in evolution, just look at dog breeds, right? They vary from the Chihuahua to the Irish Wolfhound, all developed by the hand of man. If we can do that in a relatively short period of time, what can animals do to adapt to their environment? Natural selection. We've been using it for thousands of years on domesticated animals. Now the rednecks in my part of the country are finding rattlesnakes by the sound of their rattlers. If the putzs had a brain between them, they'd realize that they're selecting for a silent killer.
In other words, you're right.

For myself, I find this incredible, mysterious universe, and the prospect that it is just one of many, enough to consider without an overlay of religion.
Best --
Jean

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 12:30:13 PM PST
Irish Lace says:
Nice post.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 12:50:34 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 12:58:23 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 12:59:04 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 12:59:55 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 1:01:25 PM PST
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Posted on Jan 13, 2013 1:02:30 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 13, 2013 1:05:43 PM PST
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Posted on Jan 13, 2013 1:18:12 PM PST
Please explain Olbers's paradox, drifter. Show your work.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 1:49:03 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
If you are open minded about the subject, many of us would be happy to point you to material that explains the subject. By the way, evolution is not a belief. It is the conclusion of scientific inquiry. No faith is needed to accept it.

Here are two free documentaries by NOVA
The first is What Darwin Never Knew and explains the mechanics in laymans terms and reviews some of the evidence
http://video.pbs.org/video/1372073556

The second is Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial. It takes the time to make detailed responses to the creationist claims against evolution and what the evidence is for it. This is, of course, centered around the Dover case.
http://video.pbs.org/video/980040807

I am sure there are people here who know more about the literature and can recommend good popular biology books. That is outside my experience.

PS, the voting reflects the number of trolls here. Sincere posters are rare, and some people have naturally started to assume trolls unless proven otherwise.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:09:46 PM PST
tom kriske says:
Nothing could please me more than to be in complete disagreement with you.

Posted on Jan 13, 2013 2:17:42 PM PST
Re OP: The Big Bang theory has been conclusively demonstrated to be correct -- which is the highest level of verification possible short of a logical proof. This means that it is compatible with ALL available data, including observations that have been made since it was propounded. For particulars, "Search Customer Discussions" for "saundersx" in "Belief in the Christian god is absurd".

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:17:47 PM PST
"By the way, evolution is not a belief. It is the conclusion of scientific inquiry. No faith is needed to accept it."

Hhmm, I'm thinking that you didn't study philosophy very much, at university. When I say that I believe in evolution, I mean just that. I have a university education, but I am not a biologist, and I am certainly not an evolutionary biologist. From what I've studied of the matter, I feel compelled that evolutionary biologists have made a pretty strong case. But I am disciplined enough to not delude myself into believing that I am truly qualified to 'evaluate the evidence' as an evolutionary biologist does. I know enough to know that I don't know enough to speak with authority on the matter. And that is how I know that I have a certain amount of faith in the expertise of evolutionary biologists.

But then, I'm not partisan to the point of idiocy. The voting that is being done here, is being done by the same trolls that stalk the Religion Forum. I am being no voted by the same people who do it to me, in the Religion Forum. I don't proselytize. I'm against teaching Creationism in public schools. I'm against public school prayer. I'm a luke warm supporter of a woman's right to choose. I'm a luke warm supporter of gay rights. I am against America legislating religious beliefs, and forcing everyone to conform to the practice of a particular religion. But I get the mindless no votes. I get them simply because I am religious.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:21:43 PM PST
noman says:
RE: "... But I get the mindless no votes. I get them simply because I am religious."

**Or,(as an alternative possibility) because you're not contributing to the discussion. In either forum.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:27:27 PM PST
"The Big Bang theory has been conclusively demonstrated to be correct -- which is the highest level of verification possible short of a logical proof."

I basically believe that something like the Big Bang happened. What I am doubting, is that you know what a 'logical proof' is. In formal logic, a 'logical proof' is a form of calculus that proves that an argument is of a valid form, and is not a proof that the argument is true or sound.

It is hard to keep a discussion grounded, when participants are putting on erudite airs.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:30:12 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 13, 2013 2:39:47 PM PST
Re Kenyon, 1-13 2:27 PM: "What I am doubting, is that you know what a 'logical proof' is." I know exactly what it is, and if you re-read my post, you will see that I explicitly do not (and will not) claim that the big bang theory is provably correct. It isn't -- just as most scientific theories are not provably correct [1]. It is "merely" so thoroughly grounded in evidence that we have no present grounds for supposing that it might be wrong -- and furthermore, no good grounds for supposing that it will ever be proven wrong: it simply fits the observations superbly.

1. The theory of evolution is an exception: it IS provably correct. See my post "saunderse" in "Belief in the Christian god is absurd" for details.
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Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  57
Total posts:  3259
Initial post:  Jan 13, 2013
Latest post:  Apr 25, 2013

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