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Why are Darwinists here so scientifically illiterate?

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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 5:52:47 AM PST
A customer says:
Found 'em: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curses_%28programming_library%29

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:17:50 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 6:24:57 AM PST
A customer says:
I knew I'd stepped in SOMETHING when you turned up.

I'll tell you what - put an ad in the Guardian when you come up with an argument, okay? And don't try praying - he's off burying a particularly troublesome vole.

Posted on Nov 15, 2012 6:47:05 AM PST
A customer says:
Looks like Brentard's struggle against heresy and DDT has exhausted him.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 7:01:59 AM PST
John McClain says:
"you are rolling in ignorance. that's what Darwinism does to a mind."

Can curses, like the ones you believe in, do the same thing to a mind?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 7:03:57 AM PST
A customer says:
Never mind curses. You ought to see what Varroa mite can do.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:32:03 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:41:41 AM PST
John McClain says:
"Romans 1 28: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a DEPRAVED MIND, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil..."

Wait, why are you quoting the bible? Let's stick to some scientific explanations, please.

"Yes, John I believe you have been given over to a depraved mind. It must be horrible not to be able to discern right from wrong and unable to tell the truth from a lie... even if you wanted to."

Interesting. Are you claiming that my mind has been affected by a curse? If so, which one? How can we test for this?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 9:54:53 AM PST
Bill M. says:
BAM/CD said:

>>Romans 1 28: Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the
>>knowledge of God, he gave them over to a DEPRAVED MIND, [...]
>>Yes, John I believe you have been given over to a depraved mind.

Lauper 2:4 -- "And I see your truuuuue colors, shinin' through..."

Yeah, John, we should all be less "depraved" and be more like Brent! You know: have sock-puppet accounts, repeat the same arguments over and over again, refuse to read any resources from people's counter-arguments, and click "Ignore" on the people who catch on.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 10:01:10 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 10:03:46 AM PST
Mortimer: ".........Yes, John I believe you have been given over to a depraved mind. It must be horrible not to be able to discern right from wrong and unable to tell the truth from a lie... even if you wanted to. Go ahead and believe in junk DNA, believe in embryonic gill slits, believe that your ancestors were slime balls that crawled out of the primordial ooze zillions of years ago."

Now that was just stupid. Morti....maybe you should just learn to embrace your own primordial slime ball.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 15, 2012 12:20:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 15, 2012 12:22:26 PM PST
noman says:
RE: BAM doesn't understand neurobiology says: "Yes, John I believe you have been given over to a depraved mind. It must be horrible not to be able to discern right from wrong and unable to tell the truth from a lie... even if you wanted to..."
*************

**Actual Science(as opposed to intolerant, ignorant and bigoted opinion) follows:

****************
Reviews of The Neuroscience of Religious Experience:

"Patrick McNamara shows the power of the neurosciences, evolutionary biology, and cognitive sciences to cast important new light on religion through a wide range of religious phenomena, interpreted with sympathetic objectivity and reserve. No scholar of religion, from any of the disciplines of religious studies, should ignore this accessible but scientifically detailed tour de force of creative analysis."
Robert Cummings Neville
Boston University, Past President of the American Academy of Religion

"An authoritative and up-to-date resource on the neurobiology of the human spirit. McNamara has led the way in developing the new science of the biology of religion, a field that blends evolutionary biology with cultural anthropology, religious studies, neurocognition and neurochemistry. Scientists, clinicians, religious scholars, and the public will all profit from the cutting-edge findings contained within. McNamara does not commit the error of reducing religion to "nothing-but" brain processes, but rather does justice to the richness and complexity of the human spirit. If you read one book on religion and the brain, it should be this one."
Robert A. Emmons
University of California, Davis

"The Neuroscience of Religious Experience is a stunning achievement and is essential reading for anyone interested in the scientific study of religion. Not only does it offer the most comprehensive synthesis of neurological, biological, and cognitive research on religion to date, but McNamara provides us with a novel and compelling theory that can make sense of this massive literature. McNamara tackles challenging questions with clarity, fresh insight, and uncompromising rigor. His broad interdisciplinary approach will be welcomed by all scholars. McNamara shows great respect for his subject and he is a worthy heir to William James."
Richard Sosis
University of Connecticut

"An excellent treatise on the relationship between the self, the brain, and religion. Clear, well written, and highly engaging. Necessary reading for anyone interested in the field of science and religion."
Andrew Newberg
University of Pennsylvania

"Dr. McNamara has provided the clearest account yet of the underlying neurological circuits and chemistry that are bound with religious experiences. Yet he has moved the field of neurotheology forwards by uniting this with an understanding of the neuroanatomy of the sense of self. He explains how religion itself has been a driving force for the development of human consciousness, which is a fascinating hypothesis."
Michael Trimble
UCL Institute of Neurology

"McNamara's book is must reading for everyone interested in the dialogue between religion and brain science."
Ilkka Pyysiäinen
Helsinki Collegium for Advanced Studies

Table of Contents for "The Neuroscience of Religious Experience"
Preface
Acknowledgments
Chapter 1: God and the Self
Chapter 2: On the Self and the Divided Self
Chapter 3: Mechanisms and Dynamics of Decentering
Chapter 4: Neurology of the Self
Chapter 5: Neurology of Religious Experiences
Chapter 6: Neurochemistry of Religiosity
Chapter 7: Self-Transformation as a Key Function of Performance of Religious Practices
Chapter 8: Self-Transformation through Spirit Possession
Chapter 9: God Concepts
Chapter 10: Religious Language
Chapter 11: Ritual
Chapter 12: Life-Span Development of Religiosity and the Self
Chapter 13: The Evolution of Self and Religion
References
Index

*****************
Dinî ve Mistik Deneyimlerin Muhtemel Bilişsel ve Nörobiyolojik Düzenekleri. (Turkish).
.
Images


.
Alternate Title:
Probable cognitive and neurobiological mechanisms of religious and mystic experiences. (English)
.
Language:
Turkish
.
Authors:
EşeI, ErtuğruI1 ertugrulesel@gmail.com
.
Source:
Klinik Psikofarmakoloji Bulteni; Jun2009, Vol. 19 Issue 2, p193-205,
Abstract (English):
Neural sciences have recently made great strides in understanding the cellular and biochemical bases of the human behaviors, feelings, attitudes, and beliefs. Since the religious beliefs are among the complicated mental functions that human beings have, and are the products of the brain, they are normally expected to have their reflections in the brain, at anatomical, physiological, and/or biochemical levels. The issue about which cognitive processes or schemas play role on the basis of religions in human beings has intensively being investigated in recent years. There are some cognitive hypotheses proposing that religious beliefs have been developed in order to cope with the fear of death, or they exist because the human brain has been programmed to develop them. It seems that certain brain areas are more important than others in the development of the religious beliefs throughout the evolutional history of the human beings, as well as in individual spirituality. Investigation of the alterations in beliefs emerging in the patients who had lesions on certain brain structures and the observation of the changes in the regional brain activities during religious acts or mystic experiences have presented some new and interesting findings on this topic. Based on these findings, one may conclude that alterations in the functions of prefrontal cortex and temporal lobes particularly, and in the neurotransmitter systems such as serotonin system have crucial importance in the development of the religious beliefs and in the mystic experiences.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 2:39:34 AM PST
RR says:
CD,
"There is symbolism in a honey bee's waggle dance, so that qualifies it as a code. But you say that DNA is not a code which is to say that genetic code is not a code. "

Non-sequitur post of the day.... Because bees dance, DNA is intelligently designed???

ROFLMAO

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2012 5:34:25 AM PST
John McClain says:
"Non-sequitur post of the day.... Because bees dance, DNA is intelligently designed???"

Now, now. Take it easy on the guy. He believes in curses.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 1:29:51 AM PST
A customer says:
Brent A. Mortimer says in honeyed tones: "Go ahead and believe in junk DNA, believe in embryonic gill slits"

The really enjoyable part of your silliness is that junk DNA is actually a bit of a problem for naive Darwinism, as natural selection should eliminate waste. It requires special explanation, and a lot of scientists are uncomfortable with the idea. The fact is that the existence of junk DNA does not arise out of the study of evolution - it arises out of the study of DNA. It is stunning CONFIRMATION of evolution that junk DNA provides a reliable molecular clock that produces consistent results based on varying data streams, but evolution does not require it. Far from it.

The fact is that those who study that intricate machine, that you're so fond of flannelling on about from a position of ignorance, report that it is full of garbage.

As for the embryonic gill arches, you can even see them on photos.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:47:04 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 6:14:53 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:48:55 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 6:13:47 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 5:49:42 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 6:12:52 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 6:16:57 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 6:17:56 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2012 2:59:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 17, 2012 3:05:17 PM PST
Richard Kepler says:
"ECB: "As for the embryonic gill arches, you can even see them on photos."

"You watch too many Disney movies, Elliott"

No, I believe that he's been looking at medical textbooks, where these important structures are portrayed routinely. (note: "gill arches" are the same structures as "pharyngeal arches" or "branchial arches" or "visceral arches" --- identical between fish and ourselves in early stages of development, not only in general appearance, but also in patterns of innervation and fate of the mesodermal components.)

Here are some sources (caution: some biological knowledge might be required to appreciate the information provided.)

http://www.netterimages.com/image/7321.htm

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1289057-overview

http://php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php?title=Pharyngeal_arches

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 11:06:39 AM PST
W. Pope says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 11:26:56 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 11:35:06 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 2:33:12 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 2:34:09 PM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"can someone tell me how evolution created a brain?"

Multicellular life, above a low level of complexity, requires a central nervous system, and a node to process its input. The format of having a mouth at one end is exceedingly common, and having sensory organs clustered near the mouth to find food was a common strategy, and having the information from those senses nearby reduces reaction times, leading to the formation of a cluster of neural processing: a brain.

"Not only did it create a brain that conducts design reasoning and creating"

More complex environments (especially more dangerous environments with a mixture of predators and prey) leads inevitably to basic cognition and the ability to avoid being eaten and finding something to eat. With the hominidae, intelligence to cope with changing environments and the challenges of competition, both with other species and within a single species permitted a number of strategies to arise, intelligence being one.

"but it developed primates with bodies designed with greater capacity to execute the thoughts of higher reasoning."

The hands predated the higher reasoning because they were essential for living in arboreal environments, where, if you can't hold on... you fall, and this means that you are unlikely to survive to breed. Primate young also have a reflex to hold onto their mothers as an infant that falls is a dead infant; Human infants continue to exhibit the behavior: the Palmar grasp reflex is a vestigial behavior.

"By this I mean hands with fingers and opposable thumbs for grasping and manipulating objects."

A common feature shared with many arboreal mammals, and especially primates.

"Primates stand upright, freeing the arms and hands for use."

Not all primates, and of those that can stand upright, most don't use this as their preferred means of locomotion. A shift from living in trees to living on the ground meants standing upright became an advantage: to see opportunities and threats further away; to minimise overheating to reduce how much of the body was in direct sunlight; ultimately to enhance basic tool use and the ability to carry objects.

"Their eyes are oriented to the front for seeing what their hands are doing."

Seeing where you are going when living in trees is a distinct advantage.

"There has never been a plausible explanation for how evolution can work (random mutation is birth defect and cancer, and incremental changes cannot create working organs),"

There are multiple evolutionary mechanisms in play; most random mutations are fairly neutral (we all carry about fifty mutations) and only some are harmful, and some are potentially beneficial.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 5:54:25 PM PST
"Sometimes, truth must be told, and that is the least I could say to thank you."

Point taken, MFEH. But my doggerel merely shows my general creativity (and makes lots of people laugh), and the "wars with irrelevant people" (I presume you mean Richard Kepler here, as that's the only person I've argued with, besides yourself of course) are not of my own provocation. However, I consider that defending myself against a bully is a viable cause, especially when RK treats so many others with the same cavalier disregard.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 1:37:56 AM PST
A customer says:
W. Pope - "incremental changes cannot create working organs"

Please demonstrate how this can be shown.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2012 1:44:55 AM PST
A customer says:
The assertion that incremental change cannot create working organs appears rather difficult to justify when pretty-much the entire spectrum of intermediate stages exists in nature to this day. As for mutations, well, this forum almost daily sees concrete examples of advantageous mutations, and in any case in some ways we, the possessors of big brains, are distinctly degenerate by comparison with our nearest relatives. We have markedly lower muscle efficiency that other apes, for instance, cannot synthesize vitamin C and, ironically, our big brains require a potentially lethal developmental retardation known as "neoteny". By mutating to appear more like baby chimpanzees than adults, we condemn a great many mothers to death in childbirth.

How's THAT for a defect?
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