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Evolution / Craetion Misconceptions


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Showing 1-25 of 119 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Nov 10, 2012 1:53:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 10, 2012 1:53:58 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 10, 2012 9:51:41 AM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"The more the media depicts the Taliban as retarded, backward, ignorant, the higher the demand on the "Taliban" hasheesh."

That post takes the biscuit for the greatest display of cognitive dissonance and disassociation so far...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 3:31:19 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 9, 2012 12:56:10 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 9, 2012 1:31:01 AM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"In contrast, you concern yourself with the theory of relativity and evolution which your never studied, used, or will ever contribute to, and you waste your life studying dead history of dead people that will never touch your present or future, because of your circumstantial existence."

Hmm, judging from the evidence about yourself you are presenting, I'm not the one with a wasted life...

"Even in Afghanistan, the Taliban demolished ancient statutes to prevent obsession about history and deal with present and future issues."

The Taliban are obsessed with rolling back the clock to an age of ignorance, superstition and tribalism. Note their 'brave' attempt to stop female education by shooting a schoolgirl in the head in Pakistan. Curious that despite how rich some Islamic nations are, she was sent to Britain for medical treatment...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 6:52:01 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 6:52:43 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 3:13:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 3:21:08 PM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"King Tut was able to hire chimps, donkeys, and cows to build the Pyramids as long as he could hold to his mathematicians."

Tutankhamun ruled (briefly) during the New Kingdom and built no pyramid; the Old Kingdom built the most impressive pyramids. Sadly, Ancient Egyptian mathematics was fairly basic, compared with the Babylonian or Greek.

Don't modern Egyptians learn anything about their history?

And Tutankhamun ruled just over three thousand years ago, which makes him almost current, given than anatomically modern humans have walked the planet for 200,000 years, and behaviorally modern humans for at least 40,000 and perhaps 70,000+ years. On such a scale, the New Kingdom was recent.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 3:03:37 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 2:54:52 PM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"Philosophy, recorded history, reading, writing, invention, space travel, quantum ideas, nuclear innovation, nanotechnology... things that chimps and monkeys cannot do."

Which are 'traits' modern humans could not do for most of the time homo sapiens has existed.

"We do not hold high views on tool users."

Curious then that 'engineer' shares a root with the word 'ingenious'.

"Today, humans value intellect and shrewdness over menial labor."

Only relatively recently....

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 2:40:33 PM PST
M. Helsdon wrote:
"As for other traits, such as tool use, other primates and even some birds use basic tools"
==========================
How far would tool use get you in human society?

We do not hold high views on tool users.

Today, humans value intellect and shrewdness over menial labor.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 2:37:35 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 1:56:16 PM PST
M. Helsdon says:
"If interbreeding was the cause of speciation, why Homo sapiens alone possess many unique traits untenable to all other species, or grades of those species?"

There's strong genetic evidence that the ancestors of homo sapiens and even homo sapiens interbred with closely related species. There's also evidence (archaeological and genetic) that Homo neanderthalis shared many traits with modern humans (language, artifacts, art - and even the possibility that many of the older cave paintings in Europe aren't by homo sapiens but by neanderthals).

As for other traits, such as tool use, other primates and even some birds use basic tools; the division between humans and other animals isn't the wide gulf you assume.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 1:46:03 PM PST
The Weasel says:
Mohamed F. El-Hewie
why Homo sapiens alone possess many unique traits untenable to all other species, or grades of those species?
***
Can you be more specific? Which traits are you considering?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 8:35:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 6:40:55 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
RE: above rant:

That does not address the issue of you not knowing the definition of the word. That is also not a problem for evolution. Please look up the word, have it translated into arabic if you need to, or whatever so you can stop abusing it.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -- Iigo Montoya

EDIT:
Perhapes this is a good translation?
http://translate.google.com/#auto/ar/misconceptions

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 7:01:54 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 8, 2012 7:03:20 AM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 5:47:56 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
RE: rant that has nothing to do with the quote:

Are you admitting an error in your understanding of the word "misconceptions"? Put another way, have you found your misconception about about the word "misconceptions"?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 1:38:45 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 7, 2012 1:46:16 PM PST
Christine M. Janis wrote:
"misconceptions" means ways in which people misunderstand the science, not ways in which the science is invalid.
======================================
What we see as [faulty] conception of something by others refers to our subjective judgment, which might as well be flawed.

I attempted to examine such relative views while listening to a lengthy lecture by a black woman speaker talking about Clinton's sex scandals. She was not the first black woman I encountered who viewed Clinton's affairs as the norm for men, in particular black men, as she also views Bill Clinton as our first black president. At least, black by heart, not by the color of his skin.

Any way, the black woman speaker goes around, helps poorly educated single moms to continue their education by encouraging them to go to church, as a first step to moral, responsible living.

Myself, I like the idea of going to church, mosque, religious involvements, as long as others are doing it, not me. The gym is my temple and no one else knows its secrets better than I do.

Here, you got my split mind. One liking the woman speaker and her great efforts of helping people to continue their education towards better life. Another my fear that telling people to start from the church would indoctrinate them into endless cycle of religious delusions, they will never find their way to the gym, when it is proper to get there.

I never viewed late arrivals to the gym as viable subjects for good living. My views have always been, people should be brought to the gym on the onset of adolescence. Latter arrivals constitute drain on society and on themselves.

Here you got it, the gym the true science is always too dear to bring to the masses, before brainwashing them in the mills of religions, most of those would be lost for eternity. Leaving me alone in my beloved universe of monkey's true nature.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 8:53:30 AM PST
Doctor Who says:
But I see you will not address the experiment that confirms that relativity is correct and proves that its corrections are implemented on GPS satellites? I suppose that silence is the best concession you can give. I certainly hope this means we can expect silence from you on this topic in the future: GPS is relativistic.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 4:29:43 AM PST
re: experiment trumps theory

Ehkzu wrote:
"No, experiment demolishes inadequate theory, paving the way to better theory. And confirms good theory, such as temporal relativity."
==========================================

I am sure whether you ever engaged in experiments or making theories. But there is no generalization and there is no such thing as temporal relativity. There also no such thing as good or bad theories. There are correct, incorrect, partially correct, limited scope theories.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie

Posted on Nov 6, 2012 10:40:55 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
re: experiment trumps theory

No, experiment demolishes inadequate theory, paving the way to better theory. And confirms good theory, such as temporal relativity.

Creative destruction.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 9:17:19 PM PST
noman says:
RE: MFEH whines "What bothers me more is your lack of authority of electronic communication engineering when you copy and slam stuff on this forum.

Mohamed F. El-Hewie"

**
What *bothers* me are your violent ignorant misogynist narcissistic anti-semitic rants. What I *post* concerns your ignorance about science. ~_+

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 7:18:49 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 7:20:13 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
Grow up. No one thinks its worth talking about because its been part of the system for over a decade. That is why only minor papers are being published now; its old news.

Would you think it worthy that they note the efficiency of the solar cells? Or the fact that they use circuits that obey ohm's law? Or the fuel capacity? Why should they note the something as trivial as an adjustment to their clocks? It does not affect the users. Also note the paper I posted. It is exactly what you should be looking for: a paper on the *experiment* that proved that the satellites are relativistic.

No theory, no personal authority, but an actual *experiment* that was established without a doubt that the clocks are affected exactly as predicted by relativity. You can do as much theorizing and whining as you like, but *experiments* are what its all about, and this one confirms that GPS is relativistic and that affects its operation.

Experiment trumps theory.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 7:07:49 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 6:54:10 PM PST
noman says:
Coordinate time and proper time in the GPS.
.
Authors:
T Matolcsi
M Matolcsi
.
Source:
European Journal of Physics; Nov2008, Vol. 29 Issue 6, p1147-1151

Abstract:
The global positioning system (GPS) provides an excellent educational example of how the theory of general relativity is put into practice and becomes part of our everyday life. This paper gives a short and instructive derivation of an important formula used in the GPS, and is aimed at graduate students and general physicists. The theoretical background of the GPS (see [1]) uses the Schwarzschild spacetime to deduce the approximate formula, {\rm d}s/{\rm d}t\approx 1+V-\frac{|\mathbf v|^2}{2} , for the relation between the proper time rate s of a satellite clock and the coordinate time rate t. Here V is the gravitational potential at the position of the satellite and \mathbf v is its velocity (with light-speed being normalized as c = 1). In this paper we give a different derivation of this formula, without using approximations, to arrive at {\rm d}s/{\rm d}t=\sqrt{\vphantom{a^b}\smash{\hbox{$1+2V-|\mathbf v|^2 -\frac{2V}{1+2V}(\mathbf n\cdot\mathbf v)^2$}}} , where \mathbf n is the normal vector pointing outwards from the centre of Earth to the satellite. In particular, if the satellite moves along a circular orbit then the formula simplifies to {\rm d}s/{\rm d}t=\sqrt{1+2V-|\mathbf v|^2} . We emphasize that this derivation is useful mainly for educational purposes, as the approximation above is already satisfactory in practice

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 6:22:36 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 7:06:02 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
A peer reviewed article actually addresses experiment.
The journal it was published in is the "Living Reviews in Relativity" which is published by the Max Planck Institute for Gravitational Physics and has an impact factor of 17.462 in 2011.

abstract follows:
"The Global Positioning System (GPS) uses accurate, stable atomic clocks in satellites and on the ground to provide world-wide position and time determination. These clocks have gravitational and motional frequency shifts which are so large that, without carefully accounting for numerous relativistic effects, the system would not work. This paper discusses the conceptual basis, founded on special and general relativity, for navigation using GPS. Relativistic principles and effects which must be considered include the constancy of the speed of light, the equivalence principle, the Sagnac effect, time dilation, gravitational frequency shifts, and relativity of synchronization. Experimental tests of relativity obtained with a GPS receiver aboard the TOPEX/POSEIDON satellite will be discussed. Recently frequency jumps arising from satellite orbit adjustments have been identified as relativistic effects. These will be explained and some interesting applications of GPS will be discussed."[1,2]

The portion specific to the experiment I referenced starts on page 19.

[1] http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/
[2] http://www.emis.ams.org/journals/LRG/Articles/lrr-2003-1/download/lrr-2003-1BW.pdf

EDITED: included abstract

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 6:04:29 PM PST
Doctor Who says:
Feel free to actually check that. The university does exist and this is not the only reference to the experiment you can find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University
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Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  13
Total posts:  119
Initial post:  Oct 20, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 10, 2012

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