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Anti-Psychiatry Ideology: Why it Makes No Scientific Sense Especially With New Advances in Treatment


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Showing 1-25 of 36 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jul 9, 2012 6:45:14 AM PDT
Minor quibble: schizophrenia over the millenia has occasionally been useful (perhaps even appropriate?) when it confers on the sufferer a shamanistic status in his culture.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 8, 2012 4:02:11 PM PDT
Bubba says:
I did a quick rearch on Amazon. "Introductory Textbook of Psychiatry" has good reviews and a used paperback copy is available for $4.24
+ $3.99 shipping.

Introductory Textbook of Psychiatry, Fourth Edition

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 8, 2012 3:50:10 PM PDT
Bubba says:
NOW Foods Rhodiola Rhodiola Rosea, 60 Capsules / 500mg (Pack of 2)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 8, 2012 10:31:08 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
arpard fazakas says:

OK, I'm in at least partial agreement on those two examples.

Spinoza says:

And that's not to say that there may not be examples of oppositional-defiant disorder that have a psychiatric or psychological etiology. A consistent pattern of ODD in a variety of contexts and environments, even those that are nominally recognized as benign, might give you a sufficient rationale for diagnosing ODD. But you can't determine that without considering the political and social context in which ODD is diagnosed.

The same holds true for ADHD. When the disorder is decontextualized from the environment in which it occurs and from those who are doing the diagnosing, the diagnosis is relatively worthless in a medical sense.

Psychiatric disorders are specifically disorders of the brain and its structure or metabolism. Schizophrenia is clearly a "mental illness." There is gross deterioration of cognition, emotion, and identity, regardless of the context or environment in which the afflicted finds themself, although stressful or abusive environments may exacerbate symptomology.

ODD and ADHD manifest themselves inconsistently, and are always heavily specific to the environment the afflicted is in. They therefore should more properly be considered behavioral forms that may indeed, be a highly appropriate response to the environment, whereas schizophrenia is always debilitating and never appropriate or useful.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 7, 2012 8:56:24 AM PDT
OK, I'm in at least partial agreement on those two examples.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 7, 2012 8:49:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 7, 2012 8:51:54 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
arpard fazakas says:

Can you give me an example of one of these nonsensical disorders being claimed?

Spinoza says:

Oppositional-defiant disorder might be an example. Much of the time it's slapped on teenagers who are simply high-spirited and rebellious, and who often have good reason to rebel against the petty, "banana republic" dictatorship by which most American high schools operate. There is a political aspect to it as well, since it is often the politics of public schooling that young people object to, and having been a high school teacher in the NYC school system for several years, I agree with them completely, and see it as a normal reaction to the stultifying, boring, limiting control freakism inherent in most public schooling.

How about ADHD? Here's a truly bs diagnosis. I've been an educator for nearly 20 years. I spent several teaching children and adolescents. I taught "special needs" students for a time. My mother even has a degree in it and taught such special needs students most of her career.

I have yet to meet one student who truly has "ADHD," and I have never had a problem with hyperactive, inattentive students.

Children are hyperactive and inattentive for many reasons: boredom is the most common.

When I gave these students something interesting to do, or think about, or write about, or discuss, voila! Their symptoms of "ADHD" disappeared, and they could be attentive and productive for hours and hours, as young children should be able to do, considering their attention spans and powers of concentration and cognition are far greatest than that of most adults.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 7, 2012 8:27:28 AM PDT
Can you give me an example of one of these nonsensical disorders being claimed?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 6, 2012 4:23:46 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
Brian Curtis says:

Dang, I wish I knew more about psychiatry. Can anyone recommend an good introductory book?

Spinoza says:

Introduction to Clinical Psychiatry (Lange Medical Books)

It's somewhat clinical, naturally, but nothing beyond the range of most folks. It's also available for $6.88. A bargain for a medical textbook. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 6, 2012 4:17:46 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
directions says:

Yes they are coming to a further understanding of what schizophrenia specifically is and how medications help. Right now I am seeking a referral for trans cranial magnetic stimulation for a form of as yet unable to classify catatonia that is now called atypical catatonia.

Spinoza says:

Having been diagnosed with bipolar disorder many years ago, I've been keeping up with the literature on TCMS and it seems to be a promising avenue of treatment. I'd join in a research study myself, simply out of curiosity, but seeing as I haven't had an episode of depression or mania in years, I'll probably pass.

I wish you luck in your treatment, directions, and hope TCMS reduces or eliminates your symptoms. Mental illness may or may not be real, but the suffering of those diagnosed IS. Keep us posted. :-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 6, 2012 12:27:57 PM PDT
W.T. Keeton says:
Oh, I agree with that. But in addition to the legitimate good that is done, there's also quite a few far-fetched claims of nonsensical 'disorders' that no one takes seriously and that probably only exist to help the author attain tenure somewhere. That's where the chiropractic comparison comes in. No one can deny how much they can help a bad back, but the claims by some of them to even cure AIDS, cancer or heart disease are less than credible.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 6, 2012 10:52:28 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 6, 2012 11:15:43 AM PDT
Since when are all other branches of medical science this accurate? Like many other areas of medicine, psychiatry has not yet reached a situation of complete understanding of its subject. However, it continues to make good progress, and has achieved some impressive results in treatment.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 6, 2012 10:44:17 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 6, 2012 10:45:27 AM PDT
W.T. Keeton says:
When you can accurately predict a mental illness every time, perhaps even write an equation to predict them with exacting accuracy, then the "mental sciences" will deserve to no longer be treated with the same practical and realistic skepticism as chiropractics. Until then, like chiropractics, most people will continue to make use of the useful and limited known benefits in a few important areas, and ignore the rest of the outlandish claims that are made that border on the pseudo-scientific.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 5, 2012 5:28:48 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 5, 2012 5:32:04 PM PDT
directions says:
Yes they are coming to a further understanding of what schizophrenia specifically is and how medications help. Right now I am seeking a referral for trans cranial magnetic stimulation for a form of as yet unable to classify catatonia that is now called atypical catatonia. It is FDA approved for treatment refractory depression, has shown to be of some help on standard symptoms of schizophrenia and in clinical study for tardive dyskinesia and in individual case studies has show efficacy on catatonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation
it works in a similar manner to ect but has a safer short term and long term side effect profile.

Posted on Jul 5, 2012 5:23:09 PM PDT
directions says:
Point taken as regards some aspects of psychiatry and certainly the past history of it but google this film:
Symptoms in Schizophrenia 1940
as its watchable on youtube.
This is what schizophrenia was like before treatment.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 5, 2012 4:43:59 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
The history of 'treating' the mentally ill is a dark one.

There were lobotomies where portions of the brain were removed surgically. A big breakthrough in the lobotomy area was they would go in through the eye socket and tear the brain to shreds with a wire.

Shock treatment.

I suspect 50 years from now people will look at the mental health profession of today as the 'dark ages' of psychiatry.

I've never been a big fan of Sigmund Freud. His theories revolved around sexual feelings that children experience. I was in a psychology class in college and the teacher was saying how Freud felt male children feel a sexual attraction to their mothers. I actually just got up and walked out of the class.

People come up with similar theories about why people invented stories about the mythological gods. They might say for example that someone like Plato saw lightning and he didn't understand science so he made up stories about how Zeus was causing it. People who are supposedly experts in mythology say things like that.

That's all dead wrong.

Jeff Marzano

A Beautiful Mind

The Four Skulls of Jonathan Drake

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

The Shining

Spinoza says:

So Freud was a whackjob, psychiatry is bs, but Atlantis and the Philadelphia Experiment were all true, bona fide historical phenomena...

Posted on Jul 5, 2012 3:16:40 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
The history of 'treating' the mentally ill is a dark one.

There were lobotomies where portions of the brain were removed surgically. A big breakthrough in the lobotomy area was they would go in through the eye socket and tear the brain to shreds with a wire.

Shock treatment.

I suspect 50 years from now people will look at the mental health profession of today as the 'dark ages' of psychiatry.

I've never been a big fan of Sigmund Freud. His theories revolved around sexual feelings that children experience. I was in a psychology class in college and the teacher was saying how Freud felt male children feel a sexual attraction to their mothers. I actually just got up and walked out of the class.

People come up with similar theories about why people invented stories about the mythological gods. They might say for example that someone like Plato saw lightning and he didn't understand science so he made up stories about how Zeus was causing it. People who are supposedly experts in mythology say things like that.

That's all dead wrong.

Jeff Marzano

A Beautiful Mind

The Four Skulls of Jonathan Drake

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

The Shining

Posted on Jun 30, 2012 8:55:18 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
"Mental" illnesses are really "brain" illnesses. A change in the brain's physical structure or functioning (shrinkage of the hippocampus or a dearth or surplus of neurotransmitters) causes changes in cognition or affect. That is an "illness" according to the medical model.

The problem with psychiatry is that it still adheres to the concept of "mind" and sees the behavioral effects of these changes in structure and function as being the mental illness itself, rather than symptoms of an underlying physical disease process or state - just as high blood pressure itself is not an illness per se, but a symptom of an underlying disease state in the heart or circulatory system.

Eventually psychiatry will have to concede the fact that mental illness is no different than physical illness - "mental" illnesses are simply diseases or syndromes of the brain itself, not the mind, and will be effectively treated primarily with pharmaceuticals and surgery, with supportive therapy as a useful adjunct to the former.

Even Freud himself believed that eventually the causes of psychosis and neurosis would be found to be physical and material and within the structure or function of the brain itself.

Posted on Jun 29, 2012 5:24:41 AM PDT
Brian Curtis says:
Dang, I wish I knew more about psychiatry. Can anyone recommend an good introductory book?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 6:02:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 28, 2012 6:29:21 PM PDT
directions says:
Yes but one reason for this is because as state psychiatric hospitals were closed the funds were not redirected to living into the community. As well what housing was available which were s.r.o.'s were closed because affordable housing was reduced in general. Its essential that funds be allocated appropriately but over the years this was not done and now we are seeing the results. Some states have passed laws that would insure funds for long term institutions when closed be redirected into the community but not all have.
People in community residences, supportive housing and supported housing can have medication monitoring if needed. There are many ways to reduce the recidivism we are seeing while allowing people with
disabilities to live in the "least restrictive setting" as mandated by the Olmstead Decision
of the Supreme Court. It should also be noted that there are still some people who are in clinical terms dangerous
to themselves or others or cannot function to the point where they might need a more intensive setting such
as you described but hopefully research into new treatment modalities
should over time reduce this.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 5:18:17 PM PDT
directions

The difficulty is that no one actually pay for what they need to live out in the world, it is the same problem with the hospitals, not enough funding. In budget cutting, mental health services are the first to get the axe.

Consider the problem with the homeless. A large percentage of these are afflicted with mental illness, and a significant percentage of those are veterans. Shouldn't there be enough money for the people who served this country to get all the help and support they need. The VA tries to do everything to help, but the politicians have no use form those who no longer qualify for recruiting posters.

Not everyone is able to live out in the world, like all illnesses, there are varying degrees of severity.

Posted on Jun 24, 2012 8:36:24 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 24, 2012 9:00:20 AM PDT
OldAmazonian says:
Some will call anything an illness if by doing so they can make a buck off it, sometimes regardless of how injurious their "treatments" may in fact be.

Posted on Jun 22, 2012 7:41:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 22, 2012 9:38:22 PM PDT
directions says:
Yes I agree that psychiatric abuse can occur as can over medication and labeling of valid experiences as symptoms. I myself have experienced psychiatric abuse in the past and have tried to take means to address it. I continue to support further regulations of psychiatric hospitals and any form of supervised housing. I also support the closure of long term institutional facilities to return people with psychiatric disabilities back to the community. I also dont support medications being advertised and also the greater regulation of the pharmaceutical industry. When you have a system that is unregulated and underfunded the experiences you describe are what people face. I would actually tend to agree with a lot of what you said.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 6:58:39 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
directions says:

[But if you disagree I'd be interested to know why.]

Well I had some mental issues going on back in October. I was hearing voices and seeing things also. This was demonic activity.

And therein lies a potential problem with psychiatry. A human being is more than just a physical, biological entity. That's where the problem comes in. I agree with what others have said that some mental problems could be caused by a physical illness or injury and the human brain may have been damaged in some way. In those cases perhaps medication may help.

But for me I thought I had problems with the demons until I started talking to the head shrinkers with their bottomless prescription pads.

I'm certainly no expert on mental illness as far as what percentage of people actually benefit from the myriad medications they dole out.

But they had me taking 'anti anxiety' pills which caused insomnia so I then needed sleeping pills. They he piled on several different anti depressants. I took those anti depressants twice and I could feel them twisting my brain into a knot.

We've got this massive medical and pharmaceutical empire in the United States. One of the medications the head shrinkers prescribed for me cost $ 600. I forget how many days worth that ways but as I recall it was not more than 30 days.

Then there's also a massive legal system and a litigious society where lawyers are now advertising on TV to mass market their services for suing drug companies and pretty much anyone else.

The head shrinkers are in sort of a bind like if I went out and hurt someone when all that was going on they might be held legally liable or something like that. So they have to offer drugs which fortunately I was not legally required to take.

I came close to being hospitalized. Once they get you inside of a mental institution they can start in with the hard drugs. Who knows if I would have ever gotten out.

My brother knows a guy who's been in a mental institution for many years. They just keep him drugged up all the time and the institution gets money from the state.

Jeff Marzano

The Encyclopedia of Demons and Demonology

Posted on Jun 22, 2012 6:55:12 PM PDT
directions says:
Yes I agree with some posts that perhaps my initial post was somewhat over inflated. However at the time I was not on a working mood stabilizer. As of now I am which is the medication Lovaza which is used off label in this capacity. This article shows that lithium as Lovaza does may work on fatty acids in the brain:
http://www.jlr.org/content/51/5/1049.full
Thus a fuller understanding of exactly how medications work and why being acheived, the specific concerns as regards psychiatry itself can still be valid. One need not undermine the other.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2012 1:11:28 PM PDT
The kid's a brat and won't do anything anyone tells her to.
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Initial post:  Jan 25, 2009
Latest post:  Jul 9, 2012

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