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was the moon landing real or fake, and why?


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 11:39:16 AM PDT
M. Helsdon says:
"Any reputable engineer or scientist with half a brain should be able to identify hundreds of absurd aspects of this story as being totally impossible."

No, they'll see it as an example of human ingenuity and bravery - Apollo 13 may not have landed on the Moon, but their efforts have won them a lasting place in history.

As someone who believes Edgar Cayce was a genuine prophet, that there are imaginary chambers under the Great Sphinx, that the Great Pyramid was built by Atlanteans, that UFOs are from a vast alien Satanic empire and that Zeus is real, are you in any condition to declare what reputable engineers and scientists consider?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 11:50:52 AM PDT
Andre Lieven says:
JM: Your whole post is so filled with major errors of basic fact that it is hard to consider any notion that you know anything on the topic.

Not 'immediately after liftoff', but after the first stage was exhausted and jettisoned, one of the five engines in the second stage shut down early and unexpectedly. As such behavior was understood in rocketry, all that meant was that the remaining four engines would burn somewhat longer, to use up the fuel that the shut down engine wasn't using, and so the result would be close to the same as if the engine had not shut down early.

Next, an O2 tank is what blew out. The CO2 filter came about two days later, and wasn't directly related to the blowout. And, there was a LOT more available to make the filter adapter than just tape and undies.

The CM was habitable, just cold without it's own power heating it. Yes, using the LM as a lifeboat was a 'change of plans', which among other things, meant that there would be no landing on 13. So ? The main point was to get the three men home and that was accomplished.

Yes, there was less electrical power. Again, so what ? When Sir Issac newton is driving, how much power does anyone need ? Sheesh.

They used a free return trajectory to return to the Earth, with the first LM burn being done to put them back on that trajectory. The reason they weren't on it in the first place was that it would have made landing at their intended lunar landing site impossible.

Next, they did NOT land on Earth in the LM. As the LM had no heat shield, no LM could successfully re-enter the Earth's atmosphere. Rather, in the last two hours before splashdown, first the damaged Service Module was jettisoned, and then the LM was. The astronauts splashed down in their Command Module, just like every Apollo before and after.

And, all of that is real history, it all really happened, though your willfully ignorant and stupid fantasy didn't, but that's the price of your own foolishness.

Next, AFTER Apollo 13, FOUR MORE manned Moon landing missions were flown, Apollos 14-17, and the last three spent three days each on the Moon, with a car to use (The LRV), and they did far more science than the first two missions (11-12) did. Plus, as we speak, a NASA probe is working in Lunar orbit, and sending back GREAT closeup pics of all of the Apollo landing sites, showing the LM descent stages still sitting there...

Oh, and Saturn has 53 moons, plus nine more that haven't been named yet. Not just one. Doofus. Willfully ignorant doofus.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 12:00:53 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
marzano, nothing would please me more than getting kicked off this forum for calling a fool a fool. there is no science in your superstitious, mythological ramblings; there is no forethought in your opinions; aliens, ancient egyptian flying machines, nazca lines, sphynxian folk tales and long dead seers, psychics and alchemists is your lingua franca. my contribution may, at times, be rough and insulting - but it beats the hell out of your infantile musings any day of the week.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 12:20:21 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
The boy does not understand cause and effect. His mind is controlled from another dimension.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 1:23:13 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
i'm just wondering if that dimension is real or imaginary.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 1:35:07 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
We do not yet have the ability to know exactly what the origins of a thought are.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 2:06:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2012 2:08:48 PM PDT
marzipano sez of someone who uttered the truth about him:
"They'll probably kick you off these discussions soon."
It's certainly too bad they don't kick off loonies, religious fanatics, gay haters, Catholic haters, Mormon haters, ill-tempered flakes, idiotic conspiracy pot-bangers, those of the tinfoil chapeaux, Edgar Cayce boosters, and little Joe (who's most of the above already)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 2:21:04 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
now that's an interesting topic. care to go first?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 3:38:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2012 3:40:58 PM PDT
iruri says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:11:57 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
So, there are more people out there who are as gullible as you? I'm so sorry to hear that since the last thing we need in this country is more people who are so stupidly gullible. On the other hand I do have some nice ocean front land in Nevada I'm looking to sell.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:25:18 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
Sorry to burst your bubble Jeff, but there were several more Moon landings after Apollo 13.
I'd just love to know how y'all think the US government kept this 'hoax' a secret. That's the single most implausible part of this 'hoax' y'all trumpet. about

Posted on Jun 17, 2012 4:27:51 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
I gotta tell you this Jeff, but Tom has more to offer these discussions than a couple of conspiracy buffs do. All of this junk about the 'faked Moon landings' is just hogwash and backed by ZERO evidence. All of the 'evidence' y'all has been debunked so you've got nothing left except the same old junk.

Posted on Jun 17, 2012 4:29:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2012 4:30:47 PM PDT
Wolfgirv says:
I didn't realise iruri and jeff were in the same hospital. I hope they share the same psychiatrist, that would cut down the load on the mental health system.

And iruri, if you think there wasn't room for three in the LEM, where did you think they kept all the gear they took to the moon, and all the rocks they brought back?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:38:38 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
iruri - Do you have even the tiniest scrap of evidence that has not already been debunked? I ask because, so far anyway, everything you have mentioned has been immediately rebutted by someone on this thread but then you post the SAME things again. Do you have ANYTHING new?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:39:29 PM PDT
Wolfgirv says:
Oh, and make no mistake Jeff, Tom is correct, you are an unquestionable India Delta India Oscar Tango

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:46:04 PM PDT
Wolfgirv says:
No Angelus1967, that is the most absurd thing about this arguement. Not only is every theory of the LHA's debunked, but like iruri, all they can do is just repeat the same delusions over and over ad Nauseum hoping someone will give them a eureka moment that they so pathetically crave.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:49:54 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
Thanks Christopher, I was pretty sure they had already given all they had which really means they've nothing at all.
These people need to find new hobbies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 4:55:30 PM PDT
Wolfgirv says:
Angelus1967: Thanks man. Can you believe that statement from 'jeff' about apollo 13? So much misinformation, he makes iruri sound like a genius! Why is it impossible for these people to just stop and pay attention to detail and think for themselves?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 5:31:15 PM PDT
Angelus1967 says:
Coming from Jeff I'd believe almost anything. He's really hooked on Edgar Cayce being one of the great minds of the 20th Century, even though the man was a nutter.
Problem is that they would rather believe the conspiracies. If they know a lot about various conspiracies, preferably more than others do, it'll make them look smarter than the rest of us.
What scares me is that these people, for the most part anyway, actually BELIEVE the stuff they post. And they are free to walk the streets! It's just chilling... 8' )

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 5:31:20 PM PDT
Lisareads says:
"now that's an interesting topic. care to go first? "
=========================
What and use my imagination? It would only reflect known things.

What the Bleep Do We Know!?(TM): Discovering the Endless Possibilities for Altering Your Everyday Reality"

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 5:48:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2012 5:49:32 PM PDT
Wolfgirv says:
But conspiracies aside, where does someone like him find so much misinformation? A second stage failure turns into a major first stage cuttoff? CO2 filters made from just duct tape and underwear? Landing back on earth in the LEM!!!? Total lack of comprehension is the only explaination for such absurdities as the ones he has written. Even a childs book on Apollo is easy enough to follow explaining the basic concept of a lunar landing. How can it be so difficult for a intelligent adult??? Or is it a fact that in this case intelligent and adult are two separate concepts. With LHA's they must either be intellectually confused or simply India Delta India Oscar Tango's. Which is it? One or the other iruri/Jeff.

Posted on Jun 17, 2012 5:54:20 PM PDT
Speaking of children's books and Apollo...

http://agaudi.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/saturnvcomplet.jpg

This image was created for a book aimed at the 9-12 demographic. If a full grown adult trying to dismiss Apollo as a hoax can't correctly interpret it, they probably shouldn't be trying.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 6:17:40 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
Jeff Marzano says: Immediately after liftoff they realized that one of the main engines had blown up.

Lj3d: Don't know where you got this info, there was no engine blowing up at launch. There was a center engine shutdown on stage two which they compensated for by burning the opther engines longer. Same thing happened on shuttle mission 51-F. Once on orbit, there was no reason to abort. A moon landing could go on as planned until the O2 tank in the SM blew.

Jeff Marzano says: On April 13 the cryo tank blew up, creating a massive hole in the side of the space ship.

Lj3d: A cryo tank blew and blew a panel off the SM. The SM is designed with bulkheads for stressed areas and aluminum panels where there is less stress. There is an image of the SM that shows the missing panel. It blew off because it was probably designed to in the event of an explosion.

Jeff Marzano says: Since they couldn't stay in the main space ship they moved into the LM (Lunar Module). Another major change of plans.

Lj3d: So a change of plans means they are done in for? Ever hear of contingency planning? Numerous what ifs are rehearsed as part of the astronauts training.

Jeff Marzano says: Then when they were headed back to the Earth they decided that they didn't need the main space ship anymore so they just abandoned ship in the LM and let the main space ship drift away into space. So they landed on Earth in the LM which is something this device was never intended to be used for in a million years.

Lj3d: They didn't just decide they didn't need the main space ship anymore. It was impossible to keep the LM once the crew was approaching entry into earths atmosphere. They didn't land in the LM either! They splashed down as they always did, in the CM.

Jeff Marzano says: But people believe this story. Why ? Because Walter Cronkite, the most trusted man in America, says it really happened. For many people that's all that matters. They will create scientific theories to prove that it really did happen. They will build the science to match the legend. They will say that the Apollo astronauts left mirrors on the moon. They will spend entire careers studying the 'moon rocks' that probably came out of some construction site.

Lj3d: This is why you think man didn't land on the moon? Yet another simplistic conspiracy theory explanation of something you apparently do not understand too well. Especially since you claimed they came back in the LM and discarded the main ship because they apparently just decided to.

Jeff Marzano says: This is probably why NASA hasn't sent any more probes to the moon since then. This massive house of cards would collapse when people realize that nobody left any American flags on the moon.

Lj3d: You really want to have a credible position? Do research before flying out with statements like this. Start by looking at NASA's budget and there, you will find the answer as to why man has not gone back. Unmanned probes from America and other countries have since been back to the moon. The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) returned images of the artifacts left on the moon by Apollo missions.

While your at it, would you mind telling us why going to the moon is so hard?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 6:25:12 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
sorry, but i don't think the folks who made that film knew what the bleep they were talking about.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2012 6:27:25 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
ruri: Remember Ol Buzzaroo saying, when he got on the Ladder he stopped and Pissed his pants? Of course he had his Diapers on. Just another Distraction.

Lj3d: I don't recall this. Sounds more like one of your delusional fantasies.

Iruri: Nasa did say that the astronauts got into the LM, but that is a Bald Face Lie. There was room in the LM for only 2 astronauts.

Lj3d: It says here, only two people can fit into an LM! Then it must be so grasshopper. Apparently you have never seen teenagers who used to see how many people could fit into a one person phone booth or four person Volkswagon.

Iruri: Then when they got close to earth they got back into the CM, cut the LM Loose, then Floated back to earth.

Lj3d: More like slammed into the atmosphere at 25,000 mph letting earths gravity bring them the final few hundred miles.

Iruri: Of course this is all a Big Fat Lie. They never got into the LM because there wasn't room for 3 in the LM.
Lj3d: Didn't you mention this already?

Iruri: This is one of the easiest Lies from nasa to Prove. If we can see this was a Big Fat Lie then what else are they Lying about?

Lj3d: You haven't proven a thing except your incredible lack of knowledge concerning engineering, astronomy, and spaceflight.

Iruri: In truth, they are Absolutely Lying about the whole Moon Landings Program.

Lj3d: You've wasted enough time here to have educated yourself big time on spaceflight, astronomy etc...so prove your claim!
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