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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 6:49:27 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
mac says: I think that we are not alone in this universe, but we may as well be. Its just too big for us to ever visit another planet outside our solar system or to be visited by other critters. Rest assured, however, that they are out there buzzing around their sun, visiting their planets.

Lj3d: Or they may be looking to their skies and postulating aliens are already visiting them. I agree, the Universe is so vast, interstellar travel will not be quite like we see it portrayed on Star Trek or Star Wars. Even in those shows, the speed of light barrier has been overcome. I certainly cannot imagine why ETs would travel such vast distances and keep themselves secret upon arrival...yet drop hints such as playing in the skies, abducting a few people here and there, build pyramids and not leave a single trace of alien tecnology behind etc.

You mentioned buzzing their sun and planets. Some ETs may well be advanced enough to do this. The other possibility is that maybe there are a few species that are becoming interstellar travel capable. But they have not yet made it practical enough to go beyond maybe hundreds of light years from their parent star.

It would all change tomorrow if ET visits us in a way that can be demonstrated worldwide undeniably. Think serious continuous coverage of a landing party by CNN, Fox News etc.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 6:52:03 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
Jeff Marzano: Many people died because They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers.

Lj3d: Many more continue to prosper writing UFO related materials. Not to mention millions of people believe whether right or wrong, that ETs are visiting or here. Why maintain murder squads to silence a few when so many already believe?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 6:55:27 PM PDT
reply to Lj3d's post:

they only kill the ones who have found out the truth
about the govt's plans

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 7:09:40 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
If you say so. Its only a hearsay case when we have to determine such things based on he said she said.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 8:32:23 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 24, 2012 11:38:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 24, 2012 11:46:07 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
Jeff Marzano: Well it tells me he doesn't say things without having done the hard work to find out the truth.

Lj3d: Thats quite true. However, when one works so hard to find the truth and ends up no closer than when they started, it tells me that maybe they haven't found it because it has not happened yet. My point was that if UFO visitations are real, he would be way beyond the papertrail stage and doing scientific research in cooperation with ETs.

Jeff Marzano: You don't believe in anything you can't look up in a chemistry book or which you are not told on the evening news. You aren't going to find that type of so called evidence about flying saucers. It is kept secret from the public by the very government you trust and it is done by beings that intentionally keep their activities secret from all human beings.

Lj3d: Actually, I believe in what I've learned through a variety of sources. Where scientific stuff is concerned, I test what is within my ability to test. At age 11, I got knowledge of a solar eclipse due in 1970 over Perry Fl. I knew from the book that an eclipse could not be controlled in any way by humans so if humans could predict it, there had to be something to science. At aged 14, I saw my first total eclipse and saw that science worked...and has worked and been tested several ways over the decades by me for various projects I've done. I even won bets off of my basic scientific knowledge. I don't just get my info by reading or watching TV. I'm a guy who likes to write and illustrate books with technical accuracy so I have to be able to do simple checks on what I'm told via the media. I learned the Saturn-V rocket was 363 feet tall. I didn't just accept it because a book told me so. I checked it by scale drawing it when I was an early teenager. Watergate taught me the government is not trustworthy, Bill Kaysing taught me conspiracy theorists are not trustworthy either. Kaysing and others proposed we didn't land on the moon. I checked as best I could in my late teens, and since neither me or Kaysing had been to the moon, I knew my evidence was at least as good as his that we went. Eventually, after finding major holes in his claims, I knew my evidence made for a better case, but I'm not controversial or even known. Moon landing hoax is a far sexier story to sell than what we actually did when we went and I know this. Look at the forums right here and tell me how many scientific discussions there are about the moon. I see four devoted to the landing hoax, none devoted to lunar geology etc. How do I know, nobody told me, I checked. As for the government covering up UFOs, Like I said, I don't trust them. You assume I do, like all UFO proponents assume skeptics follow the gov lock step. But like I said, I don't trust conspiracy theorists either. I've never met a believer in government coverups that ever gave pause to the idea that maybe the government cannot cover up everything important.

Jeff Marzano: Someone like you can't accept or isn't interested in the possibility that there are other forms of intelligent life active on planet Earth who are far above human beings. They may also be evil and there is no reason to assume that they have good intentions.

Lj3d: Lol, if you have read my posts for any length of time, you'd know this is nowhere near being true. Look at my recent post here, one or two back and tell me where I said I wasn't interested in the possibility of life and so on...be my guest. I wrote in all in black and white and its pretty clear I'm interested or I wouldn't bother being here. But unlike UFO proponents, I want proof, not second hand testimony from people I don't know, not the latest DVD, website or the latest testimonial from a scientist or AF Colonel...I've been getting that for decades. I want proof!

Jeff Marzano: The evidence is overwhelming that the phenomenon is real. To say otherwise is to discredit the statements of people like police officers, pilots, people in the military, etc.

Lj3d: The evidence that UFOs exist is largely poor quality evidence at best. Nowhere near the standard of proof required for me to say with certainty that UFOs are visiting. OTOH, I wouldn't say they have not visited and maybe somewhere in that group of people you mentioned, lies a few who really saw what they say they saw. But how do I know in a world of hucksters and ignorance that passes itself off as truth who the real eyewits were, if any? Here you say to say otherwise is to discredit people in the military etc. Yet you think the government covers it up so in a sense, you discredit people in government who have said they believe in UFOs. You do realize that at least two people claim to have seen UFOs and both served as POTUS, don't you? Two Presidents claim to have seen UFOs and the government is covering it up by murdering people? Not to mention numerous officials who claim UFO sightings. They don't necessarily believe that UFOs are ETs, maybe they do...point is, not a very effective way to cover up their existence when high officials are flapping their gums all over the place about them!

Put it all together, I would say...and have said before, I cannot know with certainty that ETs have not or are not visiting us. But I can say the evidence for them over a pretty large span of time is weak at best. Not compelling enough for me to say UFOs are alien visitors for sure. When you talk of ETs visiting, and then claim to know they are evil on top of that, your basically saying you have already been off earth and been able to prove this for certain...or your basing your statements on a desire to believe anything that supports your belief. At least I consider the possibility of ETs. I'm not totally writing it off. You say we have no reason to believe ETs are anything but evil...I saw we have no proof ETs are good, evil or somewhere in between. We don't even have proof they have visited so how can we know what their intentions are?

Jeff Marzano: Your entire view of life is based on the statement "I don't know.". That's fine but you may never know and you probably don't want to know.

Lj3d: Actually, my statement of life is "I don't know...that which is ultimately unknowable". I can deal with that when its obvious I won't ever get to know. But...if aliens were to be announced by the worldwide community as being on the way to make first contact...I not only would want to know, I'd want to take part in some way. Most UFO proponents seem happy with second hand info from books that others write. I would like direct, first hand experience that the world can all share by getting past the question of whether visitations occur or not.

You and others have expressed the tired, worn out idea that skeptics are people who believe what they are told by their government, or their mainstream media. The tired, worn out idea that we skeps want to hide our head in the sand and that we would rather not know or it would disrupt or perceived reality or whatever metaphysical term one wants to throw at us. It appears to me you get all your knowledge solely from books, and only from the conspiracy or cult books. The knowledge of astronomy you have shown here so far (12 Universes etc.) seems to be from a book about a planet called Iarga. You have cited numerous links to occult and pseudoscientific works. I've never seen you a link to a peer reviewed scientific journal or similar. Your knowledge seems one sided to me and if that's how you want it, more power to ya. Sorry but I'm not satisfied with decades of the same ole same ole. Do something original for a change instead of follow the CT crowd. Do a little research on your own by looking at both sides of the coin. You won't make a decision anytime soon and I wouldn't expect that. You may come away still believing the way you do now, or you might learn something new from looking at both sides of the coin...that's what I did, and I'm also open to future changes should they warrant it.

Posted on Apr 27, 2012 2:25:45 PM PDT
noman says:
Alien Abductee Portraits by Steven Hirsch
http://littlestickylegs.blogspot.com/

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 28, 2012 4:59:40 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 28, 2012 7:47:29 AM PDT
barbW says:
we must somehow be descended or related to these aliens if we share the same body plan and senses and motivations. Unless they at least modify their appearance to give abductees points of reference.

Maybe they're robots and not even alive, manufactured just for the purpose of interaction by aliens who actually resemble insects or reptiles.

Of course if they're just products of the human imagination developed over the recent decades, this would explain their appearance and the fearsome things they want to do to us.

Which is it? Psychologists can explain why we're afraid of the wider universe, beyond our current capability to dominate. Is it generally the weak and fear-filled individuals who are abducted?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 28, 2012 12:06:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 28, 2012 12:06:43 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 28, 2012 2:30:14 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
jeff, i got to hand it to you, you're seriously out there.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 29, 2012 4:17:30 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
tom kriske says:

[jeff, i got to hand it to you, you're seriously out there.]

There are many, many strange things in this world and I have experienced quite a few of them. That's probably because I'm attracted to and curious about mysterious things.

Looking back on it now I'm sort of like John Constantine in the Hellblazer comic book. Although I cannot read this comic book because it often shows images of the pentagram which is the symbol for Satanism.

I had demons talk to me for about 4 days back in October and I could see them at that time also. They informed me that as far as human beings are concerned they know everything. They are Satanic gods in the universe.

Zeus and the mythological gods are very real. This I can guarantee with absolute certainty.

People think Plato looked up in the sky and saw the lightning but he didn't understand science so he made up stories about how Zeus was causing it. Well that is not the case. There are reasons why the ancients talked about Zeus, Osiris, and the other immortals.

Some people think the gods came to the Earth, built the pyramids, and then left vowing one day to return. But that is also wrong. They never really left and have returned throughout history to help the human race find God. Edgar Cayce was one of them. Osiris. Cayce was a spiritual teacher who helped people understand many things.

Jeff Marzano

The Essential Edgar Cayce

John Constantine, Hellblazer: Dangerous Habits

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 29, 2012 4:31:17 PM PDT
barbW says:
Well, at least you don't get as primal as advocating that drinking the blood and eating the flesh of a dead hero is therapeutic.

The pyramids and Stonehenge have been marvelously explained in full accordance with everything we know about history and those groups of people. This isn't enough for some folks, but I really think that if you dedicate more time to the latest explanations you could shed your demons.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 30, 2012 7:17:26 PM PDT
tom kriske says:
and consistent.

Posted on May 25, 2012 2:32:37 PM PDT
jdown says:
Okay, let's recap. In this discussion in the Science Forum, we've covered, so far, flying objects that people think they see in the sky; Ezekiel and Genesis; alien abductions and the planet Iarga. But pray tell, what does any of this even remotely have to do with .. (drum roll, please).. science?

In reply to an earlier post on May 25, 2012 7:13:57 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
I think if we as a society, would begin to address the question of the human need to believe in something, even when it cannot be proven...then there would be scientific investigation and analysis. Unfortunately, people are all to eager to jump on the smallest bit of evidence while dismissing mundane explanations for the alleged UFO sightings. Whenever someone mentions the Biblical examples, they always assume Ezerkials chariot is a UFO while almost never considering the more mundane possibility I mentioned before. The eagerness of people to believe is itself worthy of scientific investigation.

In reply to an earlier post on May 25, 2012 9:23:44 PM PDT
Julian says:
This falls into the realm of anthropology and the other social sciences. There are already numerous publications and studies on religion.

In reply to an earlier post on May 25, 2012 9:37:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 26, 2012 9:46:32 PM PDT
barbW says:
It's very naive to think that aliens would satisfy any evidentiary pursuit of the stinky primates on this planet (us humans). They might reveal themselves intentionally or accidentally, and then be gone.

Wouldn't we be able to remain hidden from a more primitive lifeform?

It's just farcical to imagine that we know anything about advanced aliens. We've had a primitive electronic technology for a century?

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 12:25:28 AM PDT
Lj3d says:
Julian says: This falls into the realm of anthropology and the other social sciences. There are already numerous publications and studies on religion.

Lj3d: The ones I have seen do not address UFOs as a religion although I have seen a couple of exceptions. In any case, I'm mostly saying that rather than look into space for the answer to UFOs, it may be time to start looking within ourselves.

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 12:31:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 26, 2012 12:32:31 AM PDT
Lj3d says:
werranth413 says: It's very naive to think that aliens would satisfy any evidentiary pursuit of the stinky primates on this planet (us humans). They might reveal themselves intentionally or accidentally, and then be gone.

Lj3d: If our history is any guide, no explorers I'm aware of ever explored a place and then just disappeared. Scientific types would not regard a species as just some stinky primates. I think if we discovered Bigfoot really exists, we wouldn't just go away, we would capture it, much to the chagrin of animal rights activists...and then study it to death. The only example I can think of in which humanity simply went away after a brief exploration, is the moon. This however, is likely temporary as it appears other nations are working towards human exploration of the moon.

You said it yourself that it would be farcical to imagine we know anything about aliens. The more I see of aliens, the more I see us.

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 4:42:21 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 26, 2012 5:02:05 AM PDT
Jason: If you want to fight and argue then please ignore this thread.

Shan't! How are you going to come to any conclusions if everyone is polite and considerately respectful of all the crackpot theories that are going to be heard?

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 8:05:25 AM PDT
reply to Lj3d's post:

the ancient alien tv show speculates that religion is our cargo cult

makes an analogy with isolated native islanders in the south pacific
during the war we went in built an airstrip and planes landed with cargo
we gave a lot to the natives to get them to help us
after the war no more planes
no more cargo
so they built model planes out of straw
hoping to attract teh big metal planes again
and bring them more cargo

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 6:31:11 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
Cargo cults would make an interesting study group but its my understanding that the WWII cults faded away except for a few. The implication in UFO shows is of course, that our religion started when aliens brought us goods and tech assist. Thats a possibility, but its one of several. One being that fear drove humanity to look to the sky for answers. Fear of thunder and lightning at a time when man had no really good idea what it really was.

In reply to an earlier post on May 26, 2012 6:33:34 PM PDT
reply to Lj3d's post:

or we could hava combination of both
true religious events conflated with pagan superstitions as they spread

when you dont know the truth and are afraid people do tend to try to make up answers to comfort them because the unknown is scarier than knowing what the problem is

i dont see the cargo cult analogy cause what are we trying to get from ETs and how are we trying to signal them to come back

of course the nazca lines could have been that - or not

Posted on May 26, 2012 6:45:39 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
A combination is certainly possible. For now, it seems to me that man was fascinated with the sky. One can only imagine what the night skies looked like before city lights. And one can only wonder why ancient humans looked to the sky with fascination while modern humans barely look at the night sky at all. On the Nazca lines, I agree that when you don't know the truth, the unknown becomes scarier than the problem once known. I think we see a lot of that today.
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Discussion in:  Science forum
Participants:  49
Total posts:  356
Initial post:  Apr 20, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 29, 2013

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