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If you truly believe that ALL is God (or one Universal energy)...

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Showing 1-25 of 26 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Sep 2, 2010 9:31:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2010 9:32:10 PM PDT
Ripple says:
Then how is anything BAD?
How is anything WRONG?
Why would we think things are messed up?
Why would we need to fix anything?
Why would we think we're not where we're supposed to be?
Why do we think we're separate? Why do we think ANYTHING or ANYONE is separate?
Why do we think we need to follow a particular path? Where is it we think we're going?

Posted on Sep 3, 2010 5:59:52 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2010 6:53:54 PM PDT
mcsm62 says:
Bad, wrong, messed up, needs fixing, not where we're supposed to be - these are all perceptions and judgements that exist in our own egoic minds that want to be in control and need a reason to exist. They're temporary and meaningless. Everything that occurs is really neutral. It just is. We are the ones that place a value on things, good or bad, right or wrong. Our doing so only makes it so in our own minds, until we change our minds.

Why do we think we are separate? I haven't figured this one out. Perhaps to enjoy the remembrance that we are not separate. Perhaps to have the ability to extend love to an "other". Perhaps to see what we can create from such a predicament. Perhaps to learn the creative process "all on our own". Perhaps it is an error in judgement. One thing is certain: we are not separate.

We think we need to follow a particular path because that is what we believe about ourselves. If we do not question our beliefs, if we do not do due diligence and learn more about who we are, what drives us, what our issues are, what we are holding onto and not processing properly (lack of forgiveness), then we tend to get stuck in our own beliefs. I do, however, think we all want one thing: to be One with God, or All That Is. This is where we are going. We are the Prodigal Son, returning to the Father. We are awakening from the dream of separation.

Posted on Sep 3, 2010 9:32:25 PM PDT
Ripple says:
To mcsm62...

Thoroughly enjoyed your response! Thank you for sharing it.

We (humans) seem to have "spun up" all kinds of creations on this stage...and then we forget that we made this stuff up. We assign our own limited meanings to things...self-serving meanings...and then strut around as if we think we know it all. Honestly, it seems so ridiculous to me. And yes, I do it too! I just keep wondering -- isn't there a point at which we become so outrageous and "off-key" that we can see and hear ourselves? Our ability to ignore and ridicule anything that opposes our own chosen beliefs is astounding. Can't we think these things through and put some broader logic to them? Doesn't it make sense that the Universe and all of its levels are way beyond our understanding -- and so too would be the possibilities(!) -- therefore, our current understanding of the way things are is probably not much different than thinking the world is flat (no matter how "right" we think we are).

Posted on Sep 4, 2010 7:18:14 PM PDT
mcsm62 says:
You say, "isn't there a point at which we become so outrageous and 'off-key' that we can see and hear ourselves?"

I think there is, for each of us. A life filled with intolerance just doesn't tend to work out all that well. We're smart; we eventually figure it out.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2010 7:35:41 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 4, 2010 7:37:59 PM PDT
T.R. says:
According to my beliefs:

Then how is anything BAD? Because "bad" is a product of the Universal God.
How is anything WRONG? Because "wrong" is a product of the Universal God.
Why would we think things are messed up? I suppose you need to define "messed up", but it is because we are human.
Why would we need to fix anything? Because if we don't then it won't be fixed.
Why would we think we're not where we're supposed to be? Because we are human.
Why do we think we're separate? Why do we think ANYTHING or ANYONE is separate? Because we are human and think such. It doesn't make it true.
Why do we think we need to follow a particular path? Where is it we think we're going? Because we are human. The "path" and location we are "going" is based on human needs and wants. Primitive questions of why, how, when and where.

That was fun. I feel like I just filled out a survey. lol.

Posted on Sep 7, 2010 5:07:11 PM PDT
Ripple says:
T.R. said: Because we are human and think such. It doesn't make it true.

Yes, that was my point. We make up all kinds of things because we're human. We don't really KNOW. And we are likely limiting ourselves by thinking we DO know...because then we stop asking questions. And perhaps we don't want to question our beliefs because we don't want to appear foolish for having championed them for as long as we did. But these human tendancies (we are currently familiar with) are very likely just a small part of what we are truly capable of. So maybe asking basic questions about what so many of us believe (and support) is a good place to start. Just as we can look into the night sky at all those stars and galaxies and consider that we're only seeing and understanding a tiny fraction of the magnitude of it all -- can we not also look at ourselves and consider we are only seeing a tiny fraction of our potential and our place in it all, as well? Are our beliefs truly serving us if we can't question them?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2010 5:56:25 PM PDT
D. S. Clark says:
I actually think we are unique manifestations of the ONE and I've been told as much by those with direct experience...but very few have that high of a view. Most see unity when they wake up and that's it.

If we do indeed retain our uniqueness above this physical plane (and no, I don't mean the ego, I mean a unique Self) then we are in fact doing something here. Part of it is automatic and part is through our own effort. In the end it's mostly automatic even though it doesn't feel that way.

I believe we are individualized fragments of the One God. And the adventure continues through many lifetimes until we break free of the need to incarnate or, even after breaking free, we decide to come back for gain or assistance to others.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2010 6:08:51 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 1, 2011 12:58:02 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2010 8:31:03 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Can God be "healthy"? What really is "healthy"?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2010 8:32:07 PM PDT
T.R. says:

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2010 8:35:45 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Technically, if you ask questions or not is irrelevant to whether or not a belief serves you. Is it good to ask questions? I personally would say yes. Can you be happy not asking questions? This can also be true.

Posted on Sep 8, 2010 4:15:27 AM PDT
The philosophy you are describing is Pantheism of which there are two main varieties. Spiritual Pantheism represented by some schools of Hinduism and New Age holds that God/Spirit is all and and that the material is illusion. So evil/bad is just an illusion/ a dream to be awakend from or esaped from. Material Pantheism represented by Neopaganism and many Native Americans holds that the material world IS holy/ IS God. Some things that we count as bad are just how the world is, ie everything that lives dies. Other bad/evil things are the result of being out of balence/harmony with Nature. I personally follow the latter and find most of your questions don't need answering.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 8, 2010 4:56:23 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 8, 2010 5:04:25 AM PDT
Dave G says:
Dancing Rabbit, If I may present a different view. I believe all questions should be answered, but when they are answered they should be replaced with a new question. Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. This means when you stop growing you are dead. Always be open to new possibilities, never decide you know, the minute you do you stop growing. Ego is limit.
Can you be happy not asking questions, yes, can your happiness grow? Can you Love, yes, can your love grow? Is your ability to know limitless, yes. The minute you decide you know is the minute you found your limit.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 8, 2010 5:39:30 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 6, 2010 5:36:41 AM PDT
<<The philosophy you are describing is Pantheism of which there are two main varieties. Spiritual Pantheism represented by some schools of Hinduism and New Age holds that God/Spirit is all and that the material is illusion.>>

This is also the view of the Western Mystery Tradition (Qabalah). This physical reality is the illusion and as the Soul Awakens, it recognises its own Divinity and we are able to break free from this realm. There is a Balance to all things...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2010 7:02:37 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2010 5:58:29 AM PST
All isn't God. All beings have location and unique personality as well as structure and body. God is no different. That is the problem. Without this understanding all of your questions are really valid. But with this understanding comes complexity and simplicity and order. The questions are canceled out.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 17, 2010 7:06:03 PM PST
Humans "made this stuff up"? This shows that a point of view consciousness, a human in this case, is responsible for creating. Nothing less than an organized being with a body and location makes stuff up. And that stuff can have equal (perhaps) or less organization than what it made up but never more. Complex personality can create but without it nothing is made or created.

The answer then is that we are not creators who have forgotten our work. We are the created who have forgotten our Creator. THAT is the answer that makes sense and resonates within.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2010 3:58:22 AM PST
I don't doubt that there are other traditions that hold one or the other version of Pantheism. I couldn't possibly know or list them all accurately. What I am saying is that not all forms of Pantheism involve the belief that material reality is an illusion or something that needs to be broken free of. As a modern Pagan, I believe that the physical universe is very real, is holy and that the divine can be found through harmony with the cycles of the physical universe. This is why I celebrate the eight annual solar festivals and the full moon festivals. This is why I venerate my ancestors. This is also why I recycle and do social justice work.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2010 4:31:20 AM PST
M. Gaudet says:
I don't believe in the force, that is just fiction for a science fantasy movie called star wars.

Posted on Nov 29, 2010 11:00:20 AM PST
NattyDread says:
Why is it that people who believe in God are endlessly expected to explain and defend their beliefs?

How about this, you answer all of your own questions in reverse.

Why wouldn't we think things are messed up?

Why wouldn't we need to fix anything?

Who thinks we're not where we're supposed to be? I think those people already left in nikes on the Hale-Bopp Comet.

Once you have proved your beliefs to be the ultimately accurate, I'll do my best to prove my beliefs to you. Sound fair?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2010 11:08:01 AM PST
Deal Finder says:
Where is it we think we're going?

It doesn't matter the destination; it's all about the journey.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2010 11:12:54 AM PST
Deal Finder says:
The Egg
By: Andy Weir
You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that's when you met me.
"What... what happened?" You asked. "Where am I?"
"You died," I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
"There was a... a truck and it was skidding..."
"Yup," I said.
"I... I died?"
"Yup. But don't feel bad about it. Everyone dies," I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. "What is this place?" You asked. "Is this the afterlife?"
"More or less," I said.
"Are you god?" You asked.
"Yup," I replied. "I'm God."
"My kids... my wife," you said.
"What about them?"
"Will they be all right?"
"That's what I like to see," I said. "You just died and your main concern is for your family. That's good stuff right there."
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn't look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
"Don't worry," I said. "They'll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn't have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it's any consolation, she'll feel very guilty for feeling relieved."
"Oh," you said. "So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?"
"Neither," I said. "You'll be reincarnated."
"Ah," you said. "So the Hindus were right,"
"All religions are right in their own way," I said. "Walk with me."
You followed along as we strode through the void. "Where are we going?"
"Nowhere in particular," I said. "It's just nice to walk while we talk."
"So what's the point, then?" You asked. "When I get reborn, I'll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won't matter."
"Not so!" I said. "You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don't remember them right now."
I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. "Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It's like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it's hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you've gained all the experiences it had.
"You've been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven't stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you'd start remembering everything. But there's no point to doing that between each life."
"How many times have I been reincarnated, then?"
"Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives." I said. "This time around, you'll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD."
"Wait, what?" You stammered. "You're sending me back in time?"
"Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from."
"Where you come from?" You said.
"Oh sure," I explained "I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you'll want to know what it's like there, but honestly you wouldn't understand."
"Oh," you said, a little let down. "But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point."
"Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don't even know it's happening."
"So what's the point of it all?"
"Seriously?" I asked. "Seriously? You're asking me for the meaning of life? Isn't that a little stereotypical?"
"Well it's a reasonable question," you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. "The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature."
"You mean mankind? You want us to mature?"
"No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect."
"Just me? What about everyone else?"
"There is no one else," I said. "In this universe, there's just you and me."
You stared blankly at me. "But all the people on earth..."
"All you. Different incarnations of you."
"Wait. I'm everyone!?"
"Now you're getting it," I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.
"I'm every human being who ever lived?"
"Or who will ever live, yes."
"I'm Abraham Lincoln?"
"And you're John Wilkes Booth, too," I added.
"I'm Hitler?" You said, appalled.
"And you're the millions he killed."
"I'm Jesus?"
"And you're everyone who followed him."
You fell silent.
"Every time you victimized someone," I said, "you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you've done, you've done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you."
You thought for a long time.
"Why?" You asked me. "Why do all this?"
"Because someday, you will become like me. Because that's what you are. You're one of my kind. You're my child."
"Whoa," you said, incredulous. "You mean I'm a god?"
"No. Not yet. You're a fetus. You're still growing. Once you've lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born."
"So the whole universe," you said, "it's just..."
"An egg." I answered. "Now it's time for you to move on to your next life." And I sent you on your way.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 30, 2010 2:04:15 PM PST
I like it, "An Egg!"

Posted on Dec 3, 2010 2:12:35 PM PST
Bad and wrong are human judgements, perceptions, and actions. The Universe is neither good nor bad. It just is what it is. The Gods are not responsible for what each human decides to do with their lives. I think when people who are monotheists or from a monotheistic background look at one of the varieties of pantheism and the idea that the universe is god they assume that being god means being perfectly good. From a pantheist/polytheist view that is not the case.

The Way of The Horned God: A Young Man's Guide to Modern Paganism

Posted on Jun 15, 2011 6:06:10 AM PDT
In this reality that we live in now, all we see is governed by Laws. The Laws that apply here are Laws of opposites and Duality:
Good vs Bad
Right vs Wrong
Future vs Past
North vs South
Male vs Female etc etc...

These polarities create this reality...

Here we also need to understand that God is BOTH Good and Evil, Darkness and Light, but in God these opposites are in perfect Harmony. All is Centered and Balanced.
Within us humans these polarities are not balanced. Hence the mess the world is in.
Religion incites people to say "The devil made me do it!"
But the fact is that we all have the potential to choose Good or Evil, right or wrong....and we keep messing it up...

We can only get it right by going within, by exploring our inner realms and balance our inner polarities and opposites.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2012 1:14:01 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 11:49:07 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Ripple, if you're still around, or whoever might be, why is it important to be able to label things as "good" or "bad", as "right" or "wrong"? We're all on very different paths, which we've created. Some think dualistically, some are convinced of monism, some think "God" is separate from Its creation, some think there is One Life that is immanent and transcendent. I'm of the latter persuasion, so for me Everything IS Energy/God/Spirit/Life, whatever you want to call it. For me there's no separation, I'm one with everything that exists in and out of form, because everything is Divine Life, in or out of material form.

Moreover, everything, imu, is a work in progress. So there is no "perfect" being, but there are many beings who are moving toward a greater perfection. The achievement of total perfection would be a kind of stagnation, with nothing to move toward, and the qualities of Energy would deny that possibility. Energy is motivating and motivation to move forward, to continue to grow and to see new horizons toward which to strive.

The little demi-god in the Gnostic stories, thinks it is perfection itself. It calls itself "Yahweh", or something like that, and has no idea that it is only the manifestation of a much greater Being, who calls herself Sophia, or Wisdom. I think this is an allegory about the personality, the little "i" that is composed of the physical, emotional and mental natures. That "i" thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread, and hasn't an inkling that the true Self, the Soul, or Sophia, is, while not permanent or eternal, much, much more so than the little "i", who goes about touting his superiority. We are Soul in incarnation, but for a very long time we forget that and think our little selves, our concrete minds, are the superior ones. We do have a lot to learn.
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Initial post:  Sep 2, 2010
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