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Most Underrated Steely Dan -- relocated


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Initial post: Oct 14, 2007 5:14:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2007 5:15:12 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
Just a test. Copying some content over from the original "Classic Rock" Underrated thread. Just the stuff that relates to the original topic. I'll put other stuff in new topics.

Again, just a test. Probably to be abandoned real quickly when I realize what I've bitten off here.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 8:11:19 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on May 30, 2010 2:50:57 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:01:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2007 10:05:05 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
Thanks, Alex. Here's the beginning of the original thread:

Initial post: Aug 26, 2007 12:07 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
My vote is The Royal Scam.

Never gets any recognition and is never played live.

One of the Dan's best lyrical songs, really great and very true.

Love the fact that the first line and the last line are the same, because it shows that the story is continuous and never ends.

Look up those lyrics and tell me what ya think the most underrated song is.




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 12:26 PM PDT
Doc Xavier says:
Always loved the album THE ROYAL SCAM, so my pick is "The Caves Of Altamira" with a great sax solo by John Klemmer.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 3:00 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Underrated song by Steely Dan...that's tough, but I have to agree with Doc on "Caves". My other candidate is "Any World that I'm Welcome to" absolutely great lyrics and mood and my theme song for a few lost years.

This might belong to another topic, but does anyone actually love the 21st century Steely Dan albums? I mean, the 20th century stuff was GREAT and yielded classics on every album. The newer stuff is fine and fun, but I have trouble telling some of the songs apart. It seems as if they all are continuations from other early pieces.

Don't get me wrong, I do like them! I have them ripped to my computer and nothing is rated below a three out of five, but not much is rated anything except a three out of five.

Is this just a case where I got old and "the music of my youth is better than anything being written today"? Please say THAT'S not true.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 3:35 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
There was a definite change in style from AJA and more particularly Gaucho onwards. Any trace of raw edgy live feel was gradually replaced with a smooth controlled feel. It's a question of taste as to whether this phenomenon is a good or bad thing.
For myself, I really enjoy both eras of Steely Dan music so I would suggest that their recent work is pretty underrated. Songs like "Jack of Speed" and "What a Shame about Me" are as brilliant as anything from the good old days when Jeff Skunk Baxter was contributing sitar solos and so forth.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 3:44 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
.....as for older stuff.... I've always loved the cool laid back feel of "Chain Lightning".
It's just a little three minute song buried in the last third of the "Katy Lied" album. I've got no idea what the lyrics are on about, but it does sound good.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 4:22 PM PDT
R. D. EMOND says:
King of the World from Countdown to Ecstasy. Love the drumming in that song. I heard recently that the drummer on that album, Jim Hodder, passed on. If that's the case - RIP.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 4:30 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
That is a great tune! I know what you mean about the lyrics. Half the time I'm about half-clueless with Steely Dan and I love it. Those moments of zen when I "get" a Dan koan are blissful.

I just shut Pandora.com off for a moment to listen again to Chain Lightning. Cool...



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:30 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
King of the World is a great choice. Really pacey feel to that song. Steely Dan certainly have had a variety of brilliant drummers on their albums. I'm looking forward to seeing what Keith Carlock does with AJA on this current tour.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:34 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the late Mr. Hodder.

"Jim Hodder (December 17, 1947-June 5, 1990) was an American drummer, best known as the original drummer for Steely Dan.

He was born in Boston in 1947. He joined Steely Dan in 1972, but left in 1974. While part of Steely Dan, he worked on the Can't Buy a Thrill and Countdown to Ecstasy albums as well as part of Pretzel Logic. He sang the lead vocal on the song "Midnight Cruiser" and on the song "Dallas" which appeared only on a 7" record (unavailable on CD)

Hodder continued working as a session musician for musicians such as Sammy Hagar and David Soul. In 1990, he drowned in his swimming pool."

DAVID SOUL! I remember him! He was the David Hasselhof of his time. I guess a paycheck's a paycheck.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:41 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
David Soul was the original "Hutch" from TV's "Starsky and Hutch". They often decide to branch out and do an album don't they?. I do hope Mr Hodder's involvement in the project didn't contribute in some sad way to the pool drowning incident. From Steely Dan to David Soul. Hmmm....



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:45 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Chain Lightning: about 2 guys at a fascist rally.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:47 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
All these are good choices, but I chose Royal Scam because:
a) never played live
b) never played on the radio
c) not on any greatest hits

Most of the other songs mentioned are either played live, on the radio, or on greatest hits.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:16:38 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:48 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 5:19 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Way off the Dan topic here, but there is/was an album released by Rhino records called "Golden Throats" that had the most marvelously atrocious version's of music "covered" by TV and film stars. Sebastion Cabot doing Dylan, Telly Savalas doing "If (a picture paints...)".

Fantastically bad stuff that made the aforementioned David's believe they couldn't do any worse.

Back on the Dan track, has anyone heard the soundtrack for Me, Myself and Irene (a bad Jim Carrey vehicle)? It contains primarily covers of Steely Dan songs, some not bad. Worth checking out if you get a good price.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:51 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Yeah, heard all the covers, not great. The best is Ben Folds (one of my favorites) doing Barry Town, which is very good.

Smash Mouth did Do It Again terrible.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:53 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I get your logic (Pretzel or otherwise). I went with how often I hear "Any world" outside of my own personal listening world. I will often play it while driving and people love it and ask if it is new!

Two guys at a Fascist rally!? Only Becker and Fagen would concieve of something like that!

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:54 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 4:58 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
My gosh.... what marketing dude came up with "Golden Throats" for heaven's sake. I'd love to hear it (just once would be enough I think)

Thank's for the Jim C. movie soundtrack heads up. I'll check it out. Steely Dan covers can work quite well I think. Just take them on their own merits and try not to compare with the original......... they don't compare well.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 4:56 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 5:02 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
100% agreement there T.Z. I also liked Wilco's contribution "Any Major Dude" okay, but Setzers "Bohdisattva" rubs me wrong.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 5:00 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 5:01 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
OMG! Just for grins I typed "Golden Throats" into the Amazon search and came up with a CRAZY list of bad ideas. FOUR volumes of Golden Throats and more, including Pat Boone "In a Metal Mood: No more Mr. Nice Guy".

I was a music manager at Borders for three years! How did I miss this dreck?

"Celebrities Butcher the Beatles" OMG!



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 5:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 5:07 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Have you heard the James Reyne version of "Only a fool would say that". It appears on the album "Whiff of Bedlam" and has the great drummer Vinnie Colaiuta (Sting)throughout.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 5:18 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I was unaware of the interesting sounding Mr. Reyne. As a onetime fan of Australian rock I missed this guy. Not much available Amazon U.S. I'll try U.K.

Love Vinnie's work with Sting.

Thanks for the heads up on a Dan cover. Anymore?



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 5:46 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 6:25 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Amazon USA has a few albums from James Reyne but no "Whiff of Bedlam" which is a shame because it's his best solo effort IMHO and the only cover of "Only a fool would say that".
Even Sanity music Australia didn't have it.... or I.Tunes for that matter.

Thanks for the reply, I'm not aware of any other Steely Dan covers..... unless you want to open up that whole "You , me and Cousin Dupree" can of worms again.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 5:51 PM PDT
M. Whitener says:
"Midnight Cruiser" was always one of my favorites. It got overshadowed by the two big hits on that album - "Do it Again" and "Reeling in the Years"



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 6:05 PM PDT
K. C., Vail says:
yeah i love that song, and it also my favorite lp of theirs. i had a period where i played that every day for months a few years ago.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 6:22 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Midnight Cruiser is a good addition to this list. Seems to have a similar lyrical tone to Deacon Blues. Actually come to think of it.... I'd like to add Deacon Blues (from AJA)to this mix. Has it ever been done live ??



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 6:26 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
T.Z. is our resident expert, but I do believe I heard a live (bootlegged) version of the entire AJA album at one point. It was a long time ago, back in the vinyl ages. Any info any body?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:28:06 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 6:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 6:58 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
I believe there is a bootleg of a few show that the Dan did after Aja, but I dont think you could find it anywhere today.

Ross: It is true that Deacon Blues is not played live often. (Not played at least on the last 2 tours, acually, I dont think it has played live since the 90s.) I never understood why that and Dr. Wu are not played regually like Peg or Hey Nineteen. Maybe they dont like playing those two, maybe (gasp!) they are too complicated!? It is a mystery. I have heard every song live from Aja except Deacon Blues.

But come on! Underrated? I dont think so. In concerts, sure! But that has to be one of the top known songs in the entire Steely Dan catologe.

Midight Cruiser is a great pick.
"Theloneus My Old Friend!"

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 7:05 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex:

21st Century Dan: Great
20th Century Dan: Perfection

If you took all the songs off TAN and EMG, and put them on various albums from the 70s, then I think people would like them a lot more.

In my opinion I think the last two are great! Both classics! They just doesnt have that special something the 70s album has. But what is it?



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 7:27 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Gee I'll probably be shot down in flames for this post so I'll stress IMHO and so forth at the outset.

I can't help but feel there was a level of filler tracks in some of the 20th century Dan that just doesn't happen today. Pretzil Logic was a great title track (and a clever phrase in itself) but what about the following examples.
EG: Charlie Freak
With a Gun
Through with Buzz
Monkey in your Soul
Not up there with "2 against nature" in my opinion.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 7:37 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
I guess you're right TZ,.... nothing on AJA could be classed as underrated. I just got a little sick of Peg because it was so overplayed on radio and such. A bit like Pink Floyd's "Money" or Led Zep's "Stairway to Heaven". Great songs flogged to within an inch of their lives.Seemed to me like Deacon Blues was lost a bit.... but I could be wrong.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 7:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 7:48 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
T.Z. is right IMHO. And also Ross. Lace half the songs from Two Against into and through Pretzel Logic (Replacing just the titles Ross recommends) and you have a much stronger Album. Unfortunately I think that you would just have much stronger filler material.

I kow it sounds like I don't like the 21st century stuff, but that isn't true. There is just something edgy or immediate missing from it.

As weak as Through with Buzz is, there is still that element of Steely Dan-ness coursing through its studio band veins.

Everything Must Go is a bit of sparky amusement and ironic in a gentle way, but it just sounds a little too much like politcally correct irony, if there is such a thing.

BTW, didn't I say that T.Z. is an expert? How many times have you actually seen the illusive duo and their band T.Z.? And did you spring for the concert shirt?

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 8:09 PM PDT
Mark Abel says:
Yes, "Scam" is a fantastic song -- one of their best, for sure.

But it HAS been played live. They did it in their show in June 2000 at Shoreline Amphitheatre in Mountain View, Ca. I was there.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 8:50 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 26, 2007 8:53 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Mark: Really, that's cool, I never would have guessed they played it. I'm sure it sounded great! Still, that was probably a rare occasion.

Ross: Deacon Blues is underrated compared to Peg, no questions there.
Also, about Pretzel Logic: I always considered it Steely Dan's White Album. A lot of varierty with a lot of classic songs, but some forgetable ones. Through with Buzz and With a Gun are my two least favorite Dan songs. But there is a little of everything in that album, which is why some people (like you) consider it hit and miss. (Do you feel the same way about the White Album?) And some consider it genius. I think overall, it is one of the worst of the 70s. Not as good as EMG but a little better than TAN.

Alex: I am sixteen and just got into the Dan 2 years ago, but I have seen them twice. Last August with Michael McDonald (first concert ever) and this June. Any yes, got the tee shirts both times. It wasnt even a question to buy them. Both incredible experiences and the second show, Fagen even acknowledged me. Best 2 seconds of my life!



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 9:16 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ, a very well considered reply.
Calling "Pretzil Logic" their White Album is spot on I think. And yes, the white Album does contain some of the best and worst material from the Beatles.

I'm hoping to get a simple AJA T.Shirt on the night of the Sydney concert but I can't help feeling the weight of that mocking line from "Show Biz Kids" bearing down on me. (....they got the Steely Dan T.Shirt...) Almost as if buying a Steely Dan T.Shirt demonstrates that I just don't get it as far as Steely Dan music is concerned. Damn it .... I don't care. No more analysis. I'm going to get one anyway.

Also TZ..... man!! you're 16 ! I'm 46 and I'm so glad that music can transcend foolish barriers like age and language etc. Did I mention I'm taking my 12 year old son to see Steely Dan. He's a pretty good drummer already and this will be his first proper concert experience. Not a bad introduction to the world of live music eh?

I've enjoyed the discussion you started TZ.... thanks.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 9:30 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I second the motion! This is a great discussion, thanks T.Z. and made all the more so by the fact of your age. It is good to know that there is appreciation for quality tunes from whatever era.

I get tired of people trashing whatever is popular today (though I personally do not like rap) or the reverse, trashing the older stuff as if it no longer has value. It is all music and it all speaks to someone.

Dead on comparison of Pretzel Logic with White Album. I am a huge Beatles fan and really, some of the White Album is excremental. I think S.D. beat that with Pretzel Logic in that even the worst tune on there isn't as nasty as some of the White album.

I actually used to wear a T-shirt that I made with the words "Not a Steely Tee" printed on one side and "Show Biz Kids Tour" on the other side.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 26, 2007 9:55 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Yes indeed Alex. Music should be considered above the level of fashion and fads. Great music is timeless. The only advantage older music has over current stuff is that there is more of it to choose from. There can be only so many masterworks produced in any single given year; so only listening to the latest stuff is extremely limiting. On the other hand, sadly living in the past and pooh poohing anything new is equally silly.
Thanks for your imput too Alex.... this has been a fun conversation.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 6:43 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Your son will love love it, espisally Keith. It was my first concert and I too play the drums. Some of the times I just couldnt stop watching Keith up there!

Good for you, get the tee shirt!

Any other disucssions or questions people want to start would be great! Let's not let this one die so quick.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:15 AM PDT
Squire Jaco says:
Can I vote to have "Charlie Freak" taken off of Ross's "filler" list above? I always thought that was such a cool song, lilting back and forth, smarmy lyrics, and...sleigh bells?
I mean, where else in rock are you gonna find sleigh bells!



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:47 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Charlie Freak is a great choice. I also love Monkey in Your Soul. Both very underrated.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:29:20 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 14, 2007 10:35:34 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:54 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Last year, the tee shirt I got said:

"Any Major Dude or Showbiz Kid will tell you this is the official Old School 100% true authorized El Supremo Outragous STEELY DAN T-SHIRT"

Love it!



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 8:01 AM PDT
Jeffrey G. Stevenson says:
How about "Sign in Stranger".....great song, very overlooked!



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 8:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 8:13 AM PDT
R. Divine says:
"Green Earrings, I remember, the rings of rare design..." A great song with a great synchopated beat. Another great song on THE ROYAL SCAM. // The other great was FM. But had to wait for FM on a later Best Of release.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 8:29 AM PDT
Hoagie Mike says:
Monkey In Your Soul
~
or...
Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 8:43 AM PDT
B. J. Mark says:
I don't know, "With a Gun" always makes me chuckle. What about "Razor Boy" from Countdown... or "Rose Darling" from Katy Lied?



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 4:53 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Good on you Squire... one man's filler is another man's underrated gem.... nothing wrong with that !



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:08 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Hey TZ, I laughed out loud at the clever T.Shirt you got... was that a genuine product from the concert?. It does sound like the sort of humour that flies around on the Steely Dan Official web site. And you're a drummer too ..... me also... (I've loved teaching my son... who incidentally is going to be better than me sooner than I'd like.... damn it!)

SO OK... what drumming floats to the top in Steely Dan Music. Steve Gadd in AJA ofcourse..... but I'd vote for the very cool non-shuffle but still a shuffle that is achieved in "Home at Last".



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:20 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
BJ Mark, I think Razor Boy is a great song choice for an underrated Gem although it took some years for that one to grow on me. Isn't it great that this music stands up to repeated listenings for years without growing tired. There is so much clever stuff within the structure of these songs that keeps them fresh.... but they never seem to simply show off clever-clever musical chops just for the sake of it (see Chic Corea / Dave Weckl / etc.)
They often seem simple enough songs but are actually really hard to reproduce.

Having said that..... I've tried to like Rose Darling but I'm afraid it usually slips onto my filler list.

What would a compilation album comprised exclusively of Steely Dan Filler look like?


Do you think this post adds to the discussion?

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:31 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Jeffrey, I do really like "Sign in Stranger", one of the best... but I don't think it's been exactly underrated because I'm looking at my copy of Steely Dan live at Red Rocks (called "Steely Dan: Alive in America" I think from 1995) and it contains a great concert version of this song. This is the only official live concert CD I'm aware of and it's definitely worth owning.
Also ofcourse there is the 2 Against Nature live DVD filmed at Sony Studios which is great.... although no "Sign in Stranger" in that performance.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:37 PM PDT
jblyn says:
There are so many great Steely Dan songs that haven't gotten rated as highly by the public as they deserve, but my own favorite in that regard is probably "Any World (That I'm Welcome To)" from KATY LIED. And, to be honest, the reason I like it so much is that it's one of the few Fagen/Becker tunes that seems to reach out to other people. As good as the Dan were and are, I find that they can get a little too smug for me with prolonged listening, and this song sounds so atypical that I find it refreshing.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:37 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Hoagie.... I've got "Monkey" on my filler list (my problem ...I know) but I love "Daddy Don't Live in that NYC No More". TZ could advise if it's ever been used on tour but from my experience it's an overlooked gem. Funny lyric and that older style edgy but cool music. Great stuff.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 5:49 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
R.Divine; Green Earrings really is one of the best with that pacey synchopation and all. It's the opening track on their excellent DVD concert (2 Against Nature) filmed at Sony Studios and it's the 2nd track on their excellent Alive in America CD recorded live at Red Rocks.

These are both really good examples (the only examples??) of Steely Dan live and there are two good versions of Green Earrings to enjoy. Great song.... but I don't think it's been too badly underrated.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:39:25 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 6:28 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
JBLYN, you've raised a really interesting point. "Any World that I'm Welcome To" is unique isn't it. There are songs that offer a level of praise or sympathy here and there but there isn't ever a strong philosophical reaching out to others / the state of the world / how can I help; sort of tone.
Still: Steely Dan doesn't have to be anything more than it is. I don't suppose they have to try to solve the problems of the world in their songs. I've always thought they kind of use movie language in their songs. The lyrics are ambiguous and cinematic. If the original inspiration for a certain song may be ..."two guys talking at a fascist rally..." (as TZ pointed out); then so what. I don't think that is necessarily the MEANING of the song so much as the starting point in the writing process. Steely Dan lyrics are largely a hook to hang the music on. (A bit like, although not as extreme as, Jon Anderson's lyrics for YES music.)

James Bond movies would be really silly if they started shooting above their weight and tried to tackle serious environmental or political issues. I think Steely Dan music comes off as a little too smug when the songs are taken a little too seriously.

Having said that.... I'd be interested in hearing something a little more heartfelt from time to time. Maybe Walter Becker's new solo effort will break new ground.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 7:42 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Jeff: Sign in Stranger is a great song, one of my all time favs, and could be considered underrated. Ross makes a good point because it is on the only live CD, it is not that underrated, but Steely Dan didnt play that for the entire 93/94 tour. Plus, they didn't want JUST the big hits, so they put a overlooked song, Sign in Stragner.
Very underrated though. Not played on the last 3 or 4 tours, very little, if any radio air play, and not on any greatest hits. Great choice!

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 7:43 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
R. Divine: FM wasn't on The Royal Scam, it was a single that appeared on no album. Becker and Fagen were asked to write the theme song for the movie FM, and they released it as a single with the B side of an instrumental version of it.

Green Earrings is always in the concerts, sometimes even opens it. On some greatest hits and does get some airplay. Not underrated, but overlooked.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 7:43 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Yeah, the shirt was a genuine product, but I dont think they have them for this tour, I got it on the Sugartooth McDan tour in August.

The only song I can play on the drums by Steely Dan is Josie, which contains some of the best drumming in the Dan's catlolog. They do have some of the best drum songs in all of music, and may be the hardest to mimic. Other great drum songs not mentioned already: Kid Charlemange, My Old School, Peg, I Got the News, Two Against Nature, the list goes on and on.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 7:45 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Monkey, Rose Darling, Charlie Freak, Razor Boy are all underrated gems that some love and some could leave. I personally love all of them. IMO, there are only a handful of songs that I can do without.

jblyn: I do think Any World is very underrated, but I think, like Green Earrings, it is more like an "overlooked gem."

Ross: Daddy... has not been played live, ever, at least to my knowing. Very underrated as well (you really know your Dan to as I read more of your posts!)



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 7:41 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 27, 2007 7:47 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Love your posts!

I think we all missed a very underrated song:
Here at the Western World!

Another single that was never on an album. It was a throwaway from The Royal Scam that doesnt get much recignition, probably because the only other non album single, FM, was such a huge hit.

It is true that it is on a lot of greatest hits, but that is just because it was not on any album, so they had to put it somewhere.

Not played live often at all, but did open most of the shows on Fagen's first solo tour in 2006 (Missed it! Would have been great!)

Another underrated song not mentioned: Everyone's Gone to the Movies

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 8:40 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I finally get a chance to check back in and I must say, what a great thread you started T.Z.!

JBLYN, I'm with you on "Any World". I Know it doesn't meet T.Z.'s strict requirements for underrated, but what the hey.

"FM" is actually one of my fave tunes of Steely Dan. It was featured on the soundtrack of the movie along with some other great cuts that are a bit like the greatest hits of the early seventies, including some rare-ish live music from Linda Ronstadt (sigh!).

Both the lyric and instumental versions are featured and, if I remember correctly (it was the 70's and I inhaled through most of the late 60's so be kind)the 45rpm had a slightly different version of the instrumental, longer I believe.

It was a quirky film that probably doesn't stand up very well and was the inspiration for the TV show WKRP in Cincinnati. I highly recommend both the soundtrack and the just released 1st season of WKRP .

So I have gone into the computer and adjusted my playlist to NOTHING but Steely Dan today and I gotta say there really is not a bad track in the bunch, IMHO. Even the tunes that I don't particularly care for. I am listening to some of the songs "separately" and when they are not surrounded by the "superior" tunes they come off much better.

I just switched to "Nightfly". There is good reason for this to be on my top ten albums of all time.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 11:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2007 5:04 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Hey TZ: when I was first learning the drums as a whipper snapper (young person.... does that translate?)I practiced to several Steely Dan tunes with headphones on. Far more entertaining than a metronome. Deacon Blues was a nice steady easy 4/4 and I particularly liked Do it Again for easy drum practice. Heck there's lots really.

I agree "Here at the Western World" is a great and overlooked song.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 27, 2007 11:36 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex ; your reference to D.F's solo "Nightfly" album opens up a new thread of conversation for me at least.

I think some of the best "new era Steely Dan" material has actually been Donald Fagen's solo stuff. If I was forced to make a Sophie's Choice between Morph the Cat and Everything must go...... then I'm afraid that E.M.G would have to ... well.... GO. I seem to remember that Walter Becker has helped produce and even played on some of Donald Fagen's solo material.

I've always thought of the Fagen solo stuff as Steely Dan albums in all but name.
Any thoughts on that??



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 6:45 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: The more I think about it, Any World is a pretty underrated song, would love to see it in a concert setlist or played on the radio more.

FM the song (and soundtrack), classic.
FM the movie: very forgetable

Nice thinking seperating the "filler" songs (not really filler, but you know what I mean) compared to the big hits.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 6:53 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: I'll have to try Do It Again and Deacon Blues.

Also, your desciption of Fagen's solo stuff being Steely Dan albums in all but the name is exactly how I describe them. IMO, The Nightfly rivials the Dan's best. You could make a very strong argument that The Nightfly is one of the top 3 albums by Fagen or Steely Dan. (Also, was nominated for Album of the Year and three or four other grammys in '83. (I think that is the year)

Not a big fan of the second album (can't spell it). Has some realy good stuff, but is my least favorite Dan/Fagen album.

I persoanlly love Morph the Cat, and think it is right behind the Nightfly. I think it is a really strong album, with a lot of great songs.

Also, turns out that Daddy Don't Live... was acually just played live (first time in a while, if ever) in Japan last week, with Walter on vocals.

Ross, if you are cusious of what the set list might be for your show, I could help you out.

PS. The model who appeared on the cover of Aja passed away this week, while the Dan was in Japan.



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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 8:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2007 8:50 AM PDT
Doc Xavier says:
Hello again, T Z Me...

I'm a bit of a detail freak (not a Charlie Freak), so let me just say that "Midnight Cruiser" is another great underrated Dan song, and that it is "Felonius, my old friend" not Theloneus (no Monk references here!).

Awesome thread...so happy it's grown by leaps and bounds!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 14, 2007 10:43:01 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 11:17 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Hey Doc, thanks for catching the mistake, but you are both right and wrong. The offical lyrics are "Felonius, My Old Friend" but is a fact that Jim Hodder definitly pronounced it "Thelonious", as a sly reference to the jazz pianist Thelonious Monk, a firm Becker and Walter favoirite. So, it is a definite Monk reference. I was wrong with the lyrics, but that is just because I know it is prononced like that. (I too am a detail freak when it comes to the Dan) Good catch though.

BTW, I think Midnight Crusier may be the "deepest cut" Steely Dan has. One of the few not sung by Fagen, and is a forgotten gem on the album that contains Reeling in the Year, Do It Again, and Dirty Work.

(Change of the Guards and Only a Fool Would Say That are also two underrated fan favorites; two of my all time favorites, and would sound great live!)

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 4:31 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
What a strange circumstance TZ.
You advised that "the model who appeared on the cover of AJA passed away this week, while the Dan was in Japan". What a coincidence. There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy ..... or something along those lines.

...And yes, I'd like to know in advance what the set list for my show might be. I've done a bit of a web search and got a bit of an idea, however it sounds like there might be some room for movement though, what with "daddy don't live..." suddenly appearing in the Japan show.

Regarding Fagen solo work..... it's so interesting to note the variation and the common threads in personal taste. As much as I like "Nightfly" on it's own merits, it seems the least like a Steely Dan album of the 3 solo efforts to me. There is a sort of deliberate goofy style that pervades the whole album: particularly in "The Goodbye Look" and "Walk Between Raindrops". Not a bad thing at all, just different.

Now Kamakiriad..... and I resent having to dig out the CD so I can spell that dopey title...but...a Steely Dan album if ever I heard one. "Trans-Island Skyway" with that cachy hook near the end ".....C'mon Daddy get in let's go". "Snowbound"/ "Tomorrows Girls"/"Teahouse on the Tracks" ... all classic Dan I believe. Then there's "On the Dunes". What an atmospheric number that is. Slow cool and controlled. I still remember the first time I heard that song being pleasently surprised that it didn't just fade out straight after the last line of lyric. That extended vamp towards the end of the song is hypnotic and contains a real lesson for drummers with "clubs for hands and feet" ( see Peg explanation on AJA classic albums DVD).

Now "Morph the Cat" is fabulous with the exception that "Brite Nitegown" goes on and on a bit at the end. (Maybe you think 'Dunes goes on a bit at the end?") .... also there is the Great Pagoga of Funn filler track. Fave album though and the most like Steely Dan to me.

OK... now hit me !!

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 4:36 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
To Doc Xavier: It's a brave man that takes on TZ in a Steely Dan General Knowledge Quiz. Is he correct?? Could be a confident bluff for all I know. Potatoe / PotARRto / Tomatoe TomARRto.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 5:01 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Hey Guys! Here comes the sacrilege...

Is Becker just a studio musician and Fagen is the genius?

I too have long thought of the Fagen solo material as some of the best of Steely Dan. I believe that whether he was credited or not, Walter was on ALL of Fagen's solo material.

But always, in the back of my mind lurks the horrible question, Should they rename the band Steely Don?

I am not promoting this idea mind you, just floating it out there.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 5:06 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
T.Z., where do you come up with this stuff? What was the models name? Did you have her phone number or what? You're incredible with the Dan Trivia...

As for the whole Thelonious thing, I was always certain that the lyric sung was just that. Thanks for allowing me some sanity in this matter.

Any body else out there remember the question "Who is the loneliest monk?"

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 5:22 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Steely DON.... ha-ha.... very clever Alex. Becker's "11 Tracks of Wack" wasn't at all a bad solo effort.... and imagine if you had Fagen doing guest vocal instead of Becker .... would we have had another classic Dan album??

Synergy is a way over used word but I think it pertains to the Becker/Fagen relationship.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:08 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2007 7:09 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: It is a question that many young Dan Fans ask, but I personally think that it is crap. (no offense)

After the Nightfly was realesed and the great reviews it got, noting the perfect playing of the band and the same jazz infuluences, critics raised the inevitable, but very unfair question: What was Walter Becker's contribution to Steely Dan?"

Fagen did not care for this at all. The differences between Steely Dan and his solo stuff was very clear, him and Becker never said "let's write about a certain peroid or motif." He also said that they developed the Steely Dan sound together over the years and there was no real way to seperate how much of the style came from either one. Because Fagen used the same musicians and because his voice was the focal point of the record, Fagen admited that is was basically the same sound and there was not much difference until you start looking for details.

Plus, if Becker was the main singer, and released the Night Fly, everyone would ask the same question about Fagen. The main difference between Night Fly and 11 Tracks or Wack is what? The vocals! The music is still great, just different vocals.

So anyway, Becker has the same musical genius Fagen has and can detected the slightest difference in music just as Fagen. He is also as much a skilled lyricsts as Fagen, but Fagen always gets the attention, because he is the singer, which makes sense.

But please, don't call Becker a studio musician, but nice topic for another discussion. And let's keep the name Steely DAN. ;)

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:10 PM PDT
Rod Hansen says:
I go with "Any Major Dude Will Tell You."

Nobody knows it, it's totally obscure, but it's such a wonderful song that everyone should hear it.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:11 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 4, 2007 10:34 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
The album model's name was Sayoko Yamaguchi

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:12 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Great choice Rod! Love the acustic opening to that song!

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:14 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Great review of all three solo albums, pretty much the same way I feel. (Except I LOVE Brite Nightgown!)

For setlists - do you want just a list of songs they have played so far, set lists for certain places, or set list for just Japan. I'll post what you want next time.

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 7:57 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I actually agree with the "crap" opinion. I was just trying to stir things up a bit, sorry.

I haven't actually heard "11 Tracks of Wack" all the way through, but I think "Nightfly" is by far and away the best of all the solo efforts. I just never get tired of it. Better than some of the early Steely Dan albums IMHO and challenges "AJA" and "Gaucho" easily.

What is your favorite, if you could only have one (including solo works) Steely Dan disc?

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 8:59 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Ohh gee..... Alex.... for my money nothing challenges "AJA". Not a hard choice at all. It's my "one album stuck on a desert island" choice.
Also, can you imagine "11 tracks of Wack" with a Fagen vocal? TotalDan I think, although not a favorite.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2007 9:06:38 AM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 9:12 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ thanks so much... but I don't want you typing for ages on my account. If you can just cut and paste easily then I'd be interested in what different set lists have been done on this latest tour. Only if it's easy to do TZ.

As for "Brite Nitegown" (don't understand that spelling!) I do love it too. It just punches along effortlessly. Great for in the car. It's just that I think the last section leading to fade out could have gone instrumental and lost the vocal repetition. Reminds me a little of the way Van Morrison has a knack of selecting a really annoying phrase from the lyric of a song; then repeating it over and over and over and.... well you get my point.

I like that Alex stirs things up a bit too. Gets ideas flowing.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 9:46 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Yeah, I was that kid in high school who used to say, "I've got a good idea! Let's..." and then I'd say something completely ridiculous and stand back and watch everybody else get in trouble.

Just a quick reminder; take a minute and hit that little button after each of the comments posted that asks if the discussion or comment is useful. I'm not sure what kind of props we get, but I think the person that starts the thread gets good attention from the Amazonians. Go T.Z.!

Also, jump over and have some fun on the thread "Your Top 10 or 15 favorite bands", it's getting good and I'm stirring things up there also.

Everybody having fun? It is a fun world!

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 9:50 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Yeah clicking that button each time and still having fun. So Alex... what's your fave Dan and solo Don album of all time ??

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 9:53 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I agree with your appraisal of the vocal reps Ross. I am big fan of Van, but really, enough is enough on some of those tunes.

When I did disc jockey work for restaurants and such, I would start Phil Collins "Take, Take me Home" and fade it out before it ended. After about a half hour I would say that we were going to check in with Phil and fade it back up to hear "Take, take me home. I still remember, Take take me home..." I'd repeat that a couple of more times through the night and almost always get a laugh. People would leave the party singing "Take take me home"

Aja is an easy selection isn't it? But I think I still like Nightfly better.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 10:06 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 28, 2007 10:32 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex I like your Phil Collins story... very funny. Phil Collins is such a phenominal talent(I love the early Genesis work when he first took over vocals from Gabriel... "Trick of the Tail"/ "Wind and Wuthering"/ "Duke"/ "Then there were Three" / "ABACAB") but he got a little hampered by the whole radio friendly Mr Nice Guy thing as years went on.

So as to make this post pertinant let me add that if Walter Becker had been in the room when Donald was recording "Brite Nitegown"; then he would probably have made some sarcastic comment that would have reigned in those vocal reps at the end of the song. Don needs Walter.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 10:35 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Just like McCartney needed Lennon and vice versa. I always hate it when great teams like that start thinking they are better off apart.

It is one of the things that makes Steely Dan unique. They just continue to play nice with each other. Good for us!

Spotted your post on the fave groups. That was fast! Did you have a list just sitting around waiting for the right occasion?

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 11:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2007 12:52 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex... that list comes from the top of my head... but pretty accurate... no regrets.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 28, 2007 11:39 PM PDT
Adam Folickman says:
Aja. The song is a masterpiece. Listen to it carefully and see.

Adam Folickman's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 12:51 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Adam Folickman you speak the truth.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 5:39 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Question: Is there any word on the 2nd Walter Becker solo project? I don't suppose it's reasonable to expect him to tour the world AND record a new album at the same time ofcourse. 2nd albums are often more even and consistent. "Wack" was a little spikey from time to time. That can come off as raw and edgy or (as in "Wacks" case) just a little rough. I've got high hopes for this next one for some reason.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 8:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2007 8:18 AM PDT
B. J. Mark says:
Asking which is your favorite Dan album is like asking which is your favorite orgasm (like Woody Allen said: "My worst one was right on the money."). Although Aja is close, Katy Lied is the essential one for me. It came along at a particular time in my life and was very important (Although my favorite Dan album is usually the one I've heard last). Back to the OP, could "Throw back the Little Ones" be considered underrated?
BTW, Ross asked what an album of Dan filler would be like. I think it would be the greatest hits of most any OTHER band!

B. J. Mark's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 10:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 9:12 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Nothing to be sorry for Alex: you were just bringing up a conversation.

Anyway, Love Morph the Cat, but I agree with you 100% about The Night Fly. It definitly stands up against Aja IMO.

My favorite album, wow! It realy IS like asking what is your favorite organ. I really dont, know, just like B. J. said, whatever one I listened to last.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 2:09 PM PDT
crescent says:
Any Major Dude Would Tell You
With A Gun
My Old School

crescent's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 29, 2007 3:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2007 3:31 PM PDT
Hoagie Mike says:
Everyone's Gone To the Movies
~
Razor Boy
~
Your Gold Teeth (both versions)
~
Haitian Divorce (maybe not too underrated, but still-great great song)

Hoagie Mike's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 1:14 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Where have you all gone.... my new best friends.... TZ.... Alex.... gosh even Hoagie.....

OK here's something for ya

The title track of the fabled "Nightfly" album is overrated. That's right. The song entitled "Nightfly" is whiney and it fulfills the strange double duty of being at once the title track....and the filler track of that album.
There.... I've said it.
C'mon .... hit me...!!

Ross P. Hyland's

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2007 9:07:09 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 15, 2007 9:13:52 AM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 1:19 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
I'm sorry ...I'm sorry.... OK... something more positive then...

What are the top three tracks on the excellent "Morph the Cat" Album

I'll start with "What I do"......

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 1:26 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Crescent: I'd rate "My Old School" as one of the true all time greats from Steely Dan. (Don't know that it's underrated though.)

"With a Gun".... good on you for catching something I can't... (I call it a filler track)

"Any Major Dude" is a rare Steely Dan beast in that it has real heart (like "Any World that I'm Welcome To") and I love it. Seems very underrated to me although TZ will doubtless have the stats on that one.

Ross P. Hyland's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 8:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 8:51 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
BJ - Totally agree with you about the Dan filler. It really is better than 98% of other bands greatest hits.

Ross: Sorry, I had something to do yesterday and couldnt post, so I have a lot to do today. There is another Walter Becker solo album coming out, but no date yet.

Adam: I conside Aja to be argubly Steely Dan's best song. It truly is the sound of perfection! Plus it always sounds ridiculosuly incredible live. Can you believe they did that in one take!

Crescent: Agree with 1 of your 3 selections. With a gun is one of my least favorite Dan songs. Good, but nothing special. But My Old School is probably one of most well know Dan songs ever. That song... just seeing it's name makes me smile. It may be my favorite song of all time, and I have an emotional attachment to it. I cannot tell you how great I feel when I hear it! And it makes me so mad that it isnt one of the planet's biggest hits ever! Not underrated in the Dan's catolog, but criminally underrated overall.

Hoagie: Great selections, love Your Gold Teeth. I think the band should do both of them to start the show before Becker and Fagen walk on the stage.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 8:43 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Love the Nightfly song, cant disagree with you more. (sorry)

Any Major Dude, and Any World: both underrated, both incredible!

Three best songs on Morph:
What I Do
Brite Nightgown (sorry again)
Security Joan (my favorite on the album I think)

Best Fagen song off any album.
To me it is no contest: IGY! One of the greatest songs ever! Maybe top 10 of Steely Dan or Fagen.

BTW: Itunes called Donald Fagen a one hit wonder! (IGY) There said it will be the only thing he will be remembered for. (They didnt say it personally about him, but a group) That just really pisses me off.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 8:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 9:13 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: here is a setlist combined from all the songs they have played so far:

Time Out Mind
Godwhacker (or Black Cow)
Bad Sneakers
2vNature
Hey 19
Haitian Divorce (vox by Walter) or Daddy...
Peg
Babylon Sisters
I Got the News (or green earrings)
Dirty Work (vox by Choir)
Josie (band intros)
Aja
FM (or chain lightning) (or do it again)
Kid Charlemagne

Encores
Pretzel Logic (or My Old School) (or Home at Last)
Bodhisattva

Just so you know: they only played about 10 songs total in Japan. Only went about an hour and 15 minutes.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 8:57 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 31, 2007 11:41 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Here is some Steely Dan trivia:

1) What was Steely Dan's first single and what was the B side?

2) What famous SNL member played drums for Steely Dan originally (but never acually recorded anything with them)

Answer. Alex (I think) got it with Chevey Chase!

3) What famous SNL member is rumered to have done the cover for the Aja album?

Answer: Phil Hartman

4) Who said the guiat solo in Reelin in the Years is their favorite guitar solo ever.

Answer: The timeless Jimmy Page!

5) Fagen never wanted to sing for Steely Dan (he always said if the good Lord wanted me to sing, he would not have let me play piano) Who did Fagen want to sing for Steely Dan after David Palmer (singer of Dirty Work) left and what #1 hit single did this person have.

BTW: Steely Dan opened for Elton John in 75 (I think) that would have been great! I couldnt think of a way to word that into a question.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 9:01 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Throw Back the Little Ones: definitly the worst song (IMO) of the all mighty Katy Lied, but not a filler song. (and not underrated IMO)

Two songs from Can't Buy a Thrill not mentioned that are underrated: Fire in the Hole, and Turn that Heartbeat Over Again (one of my favorites)

T Z Me's




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Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 9:50 AM PDT
Raymond B. Wilson says:
I haven't read this entire thread, so I apologize if this has already been beaten up somewhere. "Underrated" is a subjective term, but for me the honor here has to go to "Dr. Wu." I walk into every SD concert hoping this will finally be the day I hear this song live, but so far no luck. I consider this one of the most essential songs in the Dan catalogue, but casual fans have never heard it. It's the best song on what I believe is their greatest album. Pretty easy call for me...



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In reply to your post on Aug 30, 2007 10:02 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Dr. Wu - Definitly the most requested song to play live in the entire Steely Dan catologe. For the life of me, I have no idea why they have NEVER played it live. It is probably one of the top 5 fan favorites, and nothing, ever! Great song! Hopefully the Dan will tour one more time (everybody start praying) and they will play this song. I think I would pay the whole ticket price just to hear that one song live.

T Z Me's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 1:13 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Like T.Z. I was called away and I'm bein' called again, but I HAD to get my fix of you guys!

Ray B. - Possibly my longest running all time fave Steely Dan song is Dr Wu. It fills a strange place in my heart.

T.Z. Question 3 is answered by (I believe) the inexplicably popular Chevy Chase. Sorry but I don't get this guy. A one trick pony if there ever was one, and not a very good trick at that. Who is the most over-rated SNL performer?

Ross, you evil nasty person! Nightfly as filler? Please say you're sorry right now and ask forgiveness from all the late night DJ's that answered the midnight callers out of sheer boredom, while trying hard to stay awake playing the same old tunes over and over! Yes it is a bit whiny, but that is the point (IMHO) The poor sap got what he may have considered the job of his life and now that reality has set in, he's trapped.

I was that guy for a short time and let me tell you Fagen hits the mood square on the head. Cracks me up everytime I hear the lyric about the race of men in the trees and you're for tough legislation. Perfect.

No filler at all as far as I'm concerned on Aja or Nightfly. No static at all either.

All right consider yourself hit, but I still love this thread and all the people contributing!

So when do you go to the concert Ross? Are you down under? Where abouts?

How about a quick geography check from everyone (no addresses necessary). I always think it is interesting how music transcends borders.

I'm currently west coasting in Southern Caifornia, Huntington Beach, but started in Wisconsin and Illinois with a short 4th grade stint in Cincinatti, Ohio.

Good to "see" you all.

Alex Mitchell's

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2007 4:55:45 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 26, 2009 4:27:44 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2007 5:32:02 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on May 30, 2010 2:24:53 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2007 9:48:39 AM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 2:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 2:07 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: correct, Chevey Chase. I like him, think he is one of the better SNL players.

Good to know other people agree that the Nightfly is a great song, it is the center of the album I believe.

As for me: Western New York

Edit: We got to 100 posts in less than a week, let's keep it going!





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 2:37 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: Sorry, but Chevey Chase is not the answer to question 3. I screwed up my post above me. He is the answer to question 2, but you might have ment to answer question 2, not 3.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 2:45 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Smile Hoagie, I think we all love your gold teeth...... both of them.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 2:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 3:56 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ as to the best 3 on "Morph the Cat"........... I like your selection a lot. Don't get me wrong about "Brite Nitegown"...... great song except for the vocal reps at the end. (I'm being picky and it's only opinion anyway).
Fagen obviously liked it that way. As I said earlier, if Becker had been in the recording studio at the time he would likely have made some sarcastic comment that would have caused a re think on how the song should end. (Fagen needs Becker.)
Brite Nitegown IS a great song indeed but I'd replace it with the title track "Morph the Cat" mainly due to the excellent bass line that is playing in my head as I type.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 2:58 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ thanks so much for the detailed set list. Wow ... what's not to like. Ofcourse I want them to play their entire back catalogue please........ but this is an absolutely brilliant selection. Can't wait to see them.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 3:03 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 3:04 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ Question 4: Reeling in the Years" guitar solo....... Jeff (Skunk) Baxter of Doobie Bros fame?





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 3:27 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex Mitchell: You're quite correct regarding "Nightfly". Here I am acting like the king of the world when any major dude will tell you only a fool would say that. OK, OK, I got the news.... what a shame about me. I promise not to do it again. (I thought of working in something about being a negative girl but it all started sounding a bit weird).





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 3:51 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex: Geography check: Yes I'm in Australia (downunder)on the East coast just south of Sydney and just north of Wollongong at a place called Stanwell Tops. Well known location to hang glider pilots round the world.....although otherwise not well known. On the coast. Surrounded by bush. Tiny.

So you would be roughly about 19 hours yesterday from me I think. That's why when I post here it seems like Everyone's gone to the movies. I Sign in like some sort of Stranger and ..... well perhaps I'd better stop doing that. I am on the other side of the planet. Winter is nearly over (not that Stanwell Tops ever gets Snowbound), and this Saturday marks the first day of Springtime. Oh dear I'm Doing it again.... perhaps I'd better draw my remarks to a close.

Oh yes.... I see Steely Dan with my 12 year old boy in Sydney this September 2007. My dear wife has given up her ticket for him. Now that's love!





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 7:35 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 7:36 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Morph the Cat is a great song, and since I love the entire album, I just picked the three I listened to last. Top 5 can probably add Morph the Cat and Night Belongs to Mona.

Glad you are happy with the set list. I will be a great show, it was acually a year ago tomarrow when I first saw them, and it was the greatest night of my life, seeing my heros in person, words cannot describe it.

When I was walking out, My Old School was finishing and I just stopped, and dead center in front of me was my idol... Donald Fagen. It was the greatest feeling of my life seeing him that close. I always tell people he winked at me, but I really dont know. The best was when he acually acknowledged me at the second concert! Your son is going to have a GREAT time!





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 7:39 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Wrong answer on number 4, I will post the answer under the question next time I post.

Glad to see that you relized that only a fool would say that about the Nightfly. (I want to do more of those, but I cant think of any right now, maybe the next set of posts.)





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2007 7:46 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2007 7:49 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
You know, I want to open a discussion about the wonder that is Keith Carlock.

Keith did drums on the song Two Against Nature - one of the Dan's most complet songs.

Keith did ALL, yes that's right, ALL of the tracks on Everything Must Go. I'm I the only one who sees how incredible that is!? Usually, the Dan will go through 2 or 3 drummers per SONG until they find one good enough. He did all of them, and all of them on Morph the Cat, and the upcoming Becker CD, and the last 3 tours! Usually, Becker and Fagen would use about, maybe, 100 drummers for 3 studio albums. But he can do it all! And with his eyes closed. (watch him in concert)

This guy is argably one of the top 2 or 3 drummer around right now. He will be able to do anything in the music carrer with the way he does it! He is something special, and he will be a legended someday. IMO, he is in the same league as Moon, Bonzo, and even Peart. Also IMO, one of the best studio drummers ever, 3rd to Bernard Purdie and Jim Hodder. Mark my words, people will be talking about him in 50 years.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 12:16 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 31, 2007 12:18 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
I agree that Keith Carlock is one of the top handful of drummers in the world. There are some pretty incredible players out there with stunning TECHNICAL ability. Sometimes though these guys can just show off their clever chops too much, to the point where they are unlistenable.(Think of Billy Kilson; the guy Chris Botti uses........ VERY talented guy .... but.....).

Now Keith Carlock manages to be a technical genius and MUSICAL at the same time. He spent a while recently touring with Sting which neatly brings me to my two all time top drummers.

Vinnie Colaiuta.

Manu Katche.

Both these guys have worked extensively with Sting. Manu Katche also worked extensively with Peter Gabriel.
I especially like Manu Katche's drumming because he is so musical/lyrical/in his playing. He may not try to be unbelievably fast (like a machine) and he may not try to be incredibly mathematically complex (like a computer); but he is the heart in any song he contributes his considerable talent to.

Just as the guitar style of Santana or Knopfler or Clapton is instantly recognisable; so too the drumming style and sound of Manu Katche is instantly recognisable. There are many wonderfully virtuous drummers out there who are often pretty much interchangeable.......but these three drummers; Vinnie Colaiuta, Manu Katche and Keith Carlock,... make their own space beyond all of them.

Anyone else to add to this little club?





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 10:42 AM PDT
B. J. Mark says:
Vinnie Colaiuta also played with Frank Zappa for awhile; he's on "Joe's Garage", one of my favorites by FZ. Is the answer to trivia question #4 Gordon Sumner, perchance?

B. J. Mark's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:33 AM PDT
ASTA says:
Phil Hartman did the cover art on Aja. As far as underrated songs, I really like Kings off of Can't Buy a thrill and West of Hollywood off of Two Against Nature.

ASTA's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:34 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
I can't believe I forgot about Vinnie Cotaiuta, timeless and classic.

BJ: The correct answer to number four, is acually the immortal guitarist of the monster that was Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Page!

That's right, Jimmy Page has been quoted saying the solo in Reelin in the Years is his all time favorite solo ever.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:38 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
ASTA: Nice job with the Phil Hartman answer, Kings and West of Hollywood are both great choices.

A lot of underrated songs of the last two albums.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:40 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Another dissucsion: most underrated title track. I would have to say Gaucho. Little airplay, played live very few times, and on no greatest hits.

Next could be Everything Must Go, than Two Against Nature.

What do you guys think?





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:44 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Another trivia question, this has multiple parts.

What other American band did Steely Dan joke around with, saying they were their only real competition. Steely Dan mentions this band in one of their songs, and then this band gave a little "call back" to the Dan on their most famous song. What band, and what two songs. Tough stuff!





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 11:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 31, 2007 11:52 AM PDT
ASTA says:
Two Against Nature

I want to say the Eagles, Everything You Did(Eagles reference), but not sure.
Hotel California on the Eagles Song-The Steely knife line?

ASTA's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 5:09 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 31, 2007 5:22 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
From before: Most underrated title track:

Of course I think the Royal Scam is the most underrated title track, because it is the song that started this discussion, so if anyone was confused by that, I ment other than Royal Scam.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 5:18 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 31, 2007 5:23 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
ASTA: Nice!!

The reference was in Everything You Did ("Turn up the Eagles, the neighbors are listening")

Walter Becker's girlfriend loved the Eagles and played them all the time. One day they were fighting and he thought of the line above.

Than the Eagles wanted to return the complement by makeing a reference to Steely Dan but didnt just want to come out and say it, so they put "stabbed it with their steely knives" where dan got replaced by knives, and the Dan were cemented in one of the most famous and well known songs of all time! Gotta love the Eagles!

Oh, and by the way, The Eagles themselves (Gleen at least) said that they wanted to take some chances on the new album (Hotel California) and write a way they had never written before. STEELY DAN inspired then because of their lyrical bravery (hell ya!) and willingness to go "out there."

So, Hotel California, one of the all time greatest albums and one of the most well known albums came about because (let's all say it together) THE EAGLES WERE INSPIRED BY STEELY DAN!!!!!!!! AND WITHOUT STEELY DAN, THERE WOULD BE NO HOTEL CALIFORNIA!!!!!!!! HELL YA!!!!!!!!! GREATEST BAND EVER!!!!! WHAT CAN'T THEY DO!!!

Sorry, got a little over excited there.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 5:21 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Hey Ross, two extra songs to add to the list:

They started playing Caves of Altimira again.

And, I think you will be very excited about this next one:

DEACON BLUES!!!!!!!!

I know you love it, hope they play it when you see them.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 5:24 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
ASTA: BTW, nice choice with Two Against Nature, truly a great song!





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In reply to your post on Aug 31, 2007 5:44 PM PDT
Benjamin J. Neiman says:
I love "Razor Boy " from CDTE. Wish they would throw that into the set! And, sometimes happy coincidences occur...In Calif. last year, Bonnie Raitt came out and sang "Dirty Work" w/ the Dan, outstanding!

Benjamin J. Neiman's




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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 8:07 PM PDT
Daniel Gordon says:
I can still name some damn good songs that haven't been mentioned.

"Your Gold Teeth II" from Katy Lied and "Pixeleen" from Everything Must Go.
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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 9:36 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ It really says something when Steely Dan want to keep the tour fresh for themselves by swapping songs about. The audience benefits. Caves of Altimira and Deacon Blues would both be most welcome. I think long tours can get a bit mechanical sometimes ... which is why the opening night is so often the best. Spark / fresh... etc.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2007 9:51:10 AM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 10:21 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 1, 2007 8:55 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Daniel Gordon: The attractiveness of Your Gold Teeth has been agreed upon earlier in this rather lengthy discussion. That is; both Gold Teeth. (You're right though.... the 2nd one is probably more often forgotten).

I think Pixeleen has been a bit of a sleeper too. I thought it was a standout track when I first heard the Everything Must Go album, and like a lot of that album, it's been underrated in my opinion.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 10:27 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
"Kings" is a strange one to me. Not that I don't like it at all (I do)but it is in a catagory all on it's own as far as the Steely Dan back catalogue is concerned. Almost like it comes from one of those '70's "Concept Albums". Maybe it's underrated, but I can't see where it would fit in a Steely Dan concert anyway.





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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 31, 2007 10:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 1, 2007 7:03 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ and ASTA.... "Two against Nature" with it's different time signature is just the right song to shake up that album. If the "Gaucho" album had a weakness it was that there were too many songs that sounded similar in the rhythm section/ drumming style/ time signature department.

T.A.N is just excellent, and I do hope it's performed live when I see them.

Also.... as I mentioned earlier...... I dearly hope there is a new DVD of this tour. I know there are rumors apparently... although I've not heard or read anything directly myself. TZ: how reliable is the new Steely Dan DVD rumour??





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 11:02 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 1, 2007 11:06 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
I think most of the songs on the last two albums are underrated, and Pixeleen is a great choice for underrated song from EMG.

Ross: The DVD rumour has been floating around for a while now, and it acually started off as a rumour that Fagen would put out a DVD of his first solo tour. (But, at least we do have the Night Fly Box Set coming out next month!) So, don't hold you breath with the Dan DVD, it may happen, but it very well may not.

BTW: What is the date of your concert?





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 11:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 1, 2007 11:06 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
More Steely Dan trivia:

When Steely Dan came out with the song FM, FM radio obviosuly loved it and gave it a lot of airplay. But since it was getting so much airplay on FM radio, AM radio wanted to play it to, but they were hesitent to do so, because of the fact that it sings about the glory that is FM radio, their rivial.

In the end, AM radio did in fact play it, but how did they solve the problem of the song supporting FM radio? (the answer is great!)

If anyone know, kutos! I will post the answer in the next couple days if no one gets it.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 11:10 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Wouldnt it be great if the Dan did a tour that was all "filler" material. Stuff that is played very little, if ever. It would be just for the true fans.

(Let's hope Fagen or Becker read these posts and like the idea.)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 11:11 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
In reply to my last If you could put together a ten song "filler" or "underraded" set list, what would it be?

I'll post one later.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 6:06 PM PDT
Jeffrey Frajman says:
alex, you have great taste.probably my fave 'dan songs too.also,midnight cruiser, broolyn, barrytown,and with a gun

Jeffrey Frajman's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 9:17 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ....What's in the "Nightfly box set got that I haven't already got...... is it just the trilogy put together in a single box set? ( There's no live DVD material is there??)

The date of my show in Sydney is September 18th by the way.

AND NOW.... concerning the Steely Dan DVD question....

I can't understand why there would even be a possibility that a live tour DVD may not happen. Don't they want to make some more money. More importantly.... don't they want there to be a record for posterity of what they have achieved??. Steely Dan are a part of music history, living legends really (as corny as that sounds)and a proper record of their work should include top quality DVDs as well as CDs.

Imagine if we were able to get live concert footage of MOZART / SCHUBERT / ETC but for some unknown reason we chose not to until it was too late and there were no more concerts. (we only have cover bands of these guys now!!)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 9:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 1, 2007 9:43 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Now for TEN TRACKS OF KILLER FILLER FROM STEELY DAN:

THE FEZ
BROOKLYN
CHAIN LIGHTNING
WEST OF HOLLYWOOD
ANY MAJOR DUDE
DOCTOR WU
EVERYTHING MUST GO
YOUR GOLD TEETH
GASLIGHTING ABBIE..(I don't think I want to know what this one's about, but I like the music)
KING OF THE WORLD.. ( hope this meets the provisions for underratedness)

This task was too hard and too too time consuming. I can't decide !!! Still... what a great album this would be eh??





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 1, 2007 10:30 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Hey Ross!

What a great take on the classical artist's. "We only have cover bands of these guys now!!" I am laughing out loud!

Nightfly Boxset!?!? What? What? Tell me more! More!

I agree about Gaucho. Though it is one of my faves, there is a certain sameness to many of the tracks. The fact is it is a really good sameness and I get past it pretty quickly. It does prevent it from being considered a revolutionary album in some eyes, but I think it is the most subtle of all of Steely dan's work.

Now to stir things up (BWa-Ha-Ha!)
I detest the song "Dirty Work". It is the single blemish on an otherwise nearly perfect body of work. IMHO.

Anybody agree? Or am I in for a tongue lashing from T.Z.?

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 12:24 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Oh dear oh dear ... ALEX... our great high priest TZ will have you banished for such insolence!

Does the sad whiney nature of 'Dirty Work" amount to a blemish on the "Can't buy a Thrill" album?. "I don't want to do your dirty work no more / oh yeah/ oh no, don't make me do no more of your dirty work / yeah yeah oh no...."

What's wrong with this fellow... is he not master of his own destiny?..... don't continue on this course man.... just say no to dirty work.... what's wrong with you... and stop WHINING!

Still.... does this mean that I might agree with you Alex?.... would I be likley to skip the song Dirty Work whenever I spin Can't buy a Thrill?.....well I don't feel comfortable making such a rash statement in this public forum..... and certainly not with TZ listening in.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 7:46 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
You guys really didnt know there was a Night Fly Box Trilogy Set coming out. Well, I am glad to tell you what is in it:

Nightfly Trilogy MVI DVD Box Set

$54.98

Donald Fagen's three solo classics--The Nightfly, Kamikiriad, and Morph The Cat--reissued as groundbreaking MVI Discs in a 7-Disc Music Video Interactive (MVI) box set, produced in collaboration with Donald himself. Each title is on its own MVI disc featuring the entire original album along with DTS 5.1, Dolby Digital and Advanced Resolution PCM Stereo mixes, plus rare and previously unreleased bonus audio tracks and interviews. Each disc also features bonus content including videos, rare footage, complete lyrics, a custom ringtone application, special weblinks, and more. There will also be four audio CDs: the first three feature the three original albums, while the fourth will include all of the bonus tracks (except for interviews). Expanded booklets include liner notes and track-by-track commentary by Donald. Please note: the MVI discs play on standard DVD players and computers with DVD drives. They will not play on CD players.

This box set will now be released November 20. If you order anything else with it, your order will wait to ship complete on November 16.

Click on the product image for a complete track list.

The Nightfly
Album in Dolby Digital & DTS 5.1 Surround Sound
Album & bonus material in Advanced Resolution PCM Stereo (48kHz/24-bit)

MVI - DTS 5.1; Dolby 5.1; PCM Stereo
Bonus CD - Stereo
1. I.G.Y.
2. Green Flower Street
3. Ruby Baby
4. Masine
5. New Frontier
6. The Nightfly
7. The Goodbye Look
8. Walk Between Raindrops

MVI Extras (PCM Stereo)
Bonus Audio
9. True Companion
10. Green Flower Street (Live)
11. Century's End
Bonus Video
New Frontier
Century's End
Kamakiriad
Album in Dolby Digital & DTS 5.1 Surround Sound
Album & bonus material in Advanced Resolution PCM Stereo (96kHz/24-bit)

MVI - DTS 5.1; Dolby 5.1; PCM Stereo
Bonus CD - Stereo
1. Trans-Island Skyway
2. Countermoon
3. Springtime
4. Snowbound
5. Tomorrow's Girls
6. Florida Room
7. On The Dunes
8. Teahouse On The Tracks

MVI Extras (PCM Stereo)
Bonus Audio
9. Big Noise New York
10. Confide In Me
11. Blue Lou
12. Shanghai Confidential
13. Dean Seay Interview/Reprise
14. Promo (1993)
Bonus Video
Tomorrow's Girls
Snowbound
Kamakiriad Behind The Scenes Documentary

Morph The Cat
Album in Dolby Digital & DTS 5.1 Surround Sound
Album & bonus material in Advanced Resolution PCM Stereo (96kHz/24-bit)

MVI - DTS 5.1; Dolby 5.1; PCM Stereo
Bonus CD - Stereo
1. Morph The Cat
2. H Gang
3. What I Do
4. Brite Nitegown
5. The Great Pagoda Of Funn
6. Security Joan
7. The Night Belongs To Mona
8. Mary Shut The Garden Door
9. Morph The Cat (Reprise)

MVI Extras (PCM Stereo)
Bonus Audio
10. Rhymes
11. Hank's Pad (Live)*
12. Viva Viva Rock `N' Roll (Live)*
13. World Café Interview (2006)

Bonus CD
1. Rhymes
2. Big Noise New York
3. True Companion
4. Confide In Me
5. Blue Lou
6. Shanghai Confidential
7. Green Flower Street (Live)
8. Century's End
9. Hank's Pad (Live)*
10. Viva Viva Rock 'N' Roll (Live)*

*Previously Unissued

Isn't it great!!!!!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 7:51 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: You are right, the filler set list is too time consuming, but you did a pretty great job.

And Alex: I was never the biggest fan of the song. I like it, but it doesnt sound like a Dan song. The music is different, the vocals are not Fagen, and the lyrics are nothing like other Dan songs. It is a good song, but I could see a stone cold Dan fan not liking the song.

I really wish that they wouldnt play it in concert everytime.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 2:13 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
"Kid Charlemagne"; does anybody else think that song is about Owsley? and "Don't Make Me Do It Without The Fez On".

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 3:30 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Hey TZ.... thanks a lot for going to the trouble of posting the info on the box set of Fagen solo stuff. I had heard there was something on the way but hadn't bothered checking it out as I already own the albums (including the 2 disc Morph with DVD- Audio ).

HOWEVER; it sounds like there is a lot of bonus material that makes further investment very tempting. Damn those cunning marketing chaps. Of course I'll weaken. Of course I'll buy them again..... but I'll have to shower afterwards..... I feel so used!

AND..what do I do with my original CD recordings. Shall I become an evangelist of Fagen and bother my friends and family with them. (Please .... just take this free gift and have a listen.... there's no pressure at all friend.... just listen an give a chance for the fagenness to wash over you...)

Sounds creepy TZ... what exactly are you suggesting??

You know I'm going to pre order as soon as I finish this post don't you.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 3:37 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ TZ TZ.... I'm surprised at you..... I thought you would be onto Alex like a ton of bricks for his Dirty Work comments.
How do you feel about the song "KINGS" then. As I said earlier it sounds like it comes from a '70's concept album rather than Steely Dan to me.(O.K though)

MILLIONRAINBOWS Hello..... like the songs you mention..... not sure what you mean though.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2007 12:37:11 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on May 22, 2012 7:41:49 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:39:21 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 3:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 4:08 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
millionrainbows: Dead on!! It is about Oswsley. He was a big drug dealer in the 70s and an associate of the Grateful Dead (big suprise!) I will post more about him if you guys want.

Ross: I know, the box set looks great! I think I will just sell the original CDs on Ebay or something.

Oh, sorry I wasnt harder on Alex, but I could see how someone could think that way about that song. I like it a lot, and it does give the girls the spotlight at concerts, but it still isnt one of my faves.

Kings, a great song which, like a lot of other underrated stuff from Can't Buy a Thrill, got lost because of the two HUGE hits, and the one minor hit, Dirty Work.

Another VERY underrated hit that is one of my all time favorites, Glamour Profession! Love it, and wish they would play it more live. A lot better than Third World Man, was never a fan of it.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 5:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 5:43 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Seriously! I thought TZ would definetly send a hit squad out to whack me about the neck and head with dry noodles or wet sausage or spent ballons or something. He didn't even say "Crap" to me like when I suggested that Walter was the lesser member. (That was funny!)

Wait a minute...your telling me that they actually perform that dreck live? I don't know Ross, you may want to scalp your tickets in protest. I'll watch for them to appear on e-bay...

By the way Ross, I noticed you didn't actually agree with me, but you didn't actually do a very good job defending that sad little waste of studio time either.

TZ, you are close to demi-god status in my eyes for your encyclopedic knowledge of all things Dan, but you said you "like it" and it is a "good song". I may have to take away some sacrificial incense from the TZ altar of Dan-ness.

Okay so MVI discs won't play on my CD player in the car, but you mentioned 4 audio CD's. Will they play in my car? Or is MVI some new fangled contraption that needs special equipment and we'll all have to replace everything AGIN?

I am seriously jonesing for this set, but if I can't listen to it in my chosen format I may not be an early adopter here. The extras sound fantastic however and I have actually already dropped it in my wish list on Amazon.

millionrainbows - Kid Charlemagne is one of the funniest songs. Coming from that Owsley era and from that culture as well (I blushing acknowledge my past with out endorsing my behaviour and am quick to point out that the statute of limitations is long since run out, three times at least) the paranoia in the lines, "Clean this mess up else we'll all end up in jail. The test tubes and the scales, just get 'em all outta here. 'Is there gas in the car?' 'Yes! There's gas in the car!' 'I think the people down the hall know who you are!'" That is dead on to how it all felt.

This is why I love Steely Dan. The ability to capture the feeling of the moment with just a few words is unmatched by any other group that I can think of. Lines like "Biscayne Bay, Where the Cuban gentlemen sleep all day" and "I crossed my old man back in Oregon" or even "Introduce me to that big blonde, she's got a touch of Tuesday Weld. Wearing Ambush and a french twist, she's got us wild and she can tell" (heck! the lyrics to that entire song!) just take me right to that place and space in time.

The musicianship is top, but there are a lot of top musicians in the world. The combination of pithy and ironic words just brings it all home for me.

What is your favorite line?

By the way, if millionrainbows is really your name perhaps you have a closer association to Owsley than you may be letting on. Is your favorite color purple?

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 6:08 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex: There are many great lines in the lyrics.... and they're not overly prescriptive, more cinematic and suggestive,.... as Fagen said on the bonus documentary that came with "Everything Must Go" (you remember? in the back of the Taxi in Vegas) the listener can make their own meaning.

As to fave lines... too many to be pinned down to one BUT the first that comes to mind is:

"SHE SAID MAYBE IT'S THE SKEEVY LOOK IN YOUR EYES
OR THAT YOUR MIND HAS TURNED TO APPLESAUCE
THE DREARY ARCHITECTURE OF YOUR SOUL"

"I SAID; BUT WHAT IS IT EXACTLY TURNS YOU OFF"





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 6:23 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Oh here's one more if you don't mind;

"THE DANGER ON THE ROCKS IS SURELY PAST
STILL I REMAIN TIED TO THE MAST
COULD IT BE I HAVE FOUND MY HOME AT LAST
HOME AT LAST"

You've got to be a part of life and LIVE IT. No good to just stay safe and watch it. That's no home to live in.
How amazing that a band playing popular music can dare to approach Homer's Odyssey without coming off looking pretentious and stupid. Sting and Peter Gabriel can manage this sort of thing also, so I guess it shows just how versitile the medium of pop music really is.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 6:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 6:39 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: So very sorry, here is something else about Dirty Work:

Dirty Work is the second track on the album, and follows arguably one of the best if not the best know song in the Dan's catolog, Do It Again. Let's pretend this is your (not you but people in general) first time listening to the Dan, after you hear Do It Again in all its glory with the amazing Fagen on vocals doing some of his best ever, you get yourself super pumped for another song like that.

The next song, a whiney vocal David Palmer singing a very POP song about doing dirty work for this woman that he knows he shouldnt be doing. On your first listen you think Exucse me, this is not the Dan. This is a tired worn out pop song that should be taken off the album. A slower song like that with the winey instuments and vocals do not fit between Do It Again and the mild rocker Kings. Dont play it live, dont put it on compelations and dont play it on the radio. Stick with Fagen vocals only.

...On the other hand, you might think Wow! These guys can rock, and these guys can take it easy with the same amount of satisfaction the lister gets from listening to it. It different its new, it is a shorter song so you just get a taste of the milder side of the Dan, but your glad they kept it on. Play it on the radio and put it on greaest hits to show people the variety this band has, and yes play it live so the girls get a chance to shine.

I'm more with the second guy.

So there you go, two arguments that go either way. I think it is better than before, and I hope you are very happy with it.

Well that put me back a half hour, guess I can cancel all my plans. (just joshing)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 6:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 8:16 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: the four audio CDs are the same as the Night Fly you have right now, just remastered. They WILL play in your car.

Love your description of the Dan's lyrics. They really take you away and set a scene so vividly you would think you were there.

I could never, EVER pick my favorite line. I dont think I could pick my top 20.

Maybe: ITS PERFECTION AND GRACE, ITS THE SMILE ON MY FACE. TONIGHT WHEN I CHASE THE DRAGEN AND THE WATER WILL CHANGE TO CHERRY WINE AND THE SILVER WILL TURN TO GOLD, TIME OUT OF MIND!!

I dont know, I just love that little discrpition. This is just one of my favorites, like I said before, I could never pick one.

Ross: Your line (cousin dupree) is great too. Great song, very disturbing lyrics. I love that documentary on Everything Must Go. Really entertaining and says a lot about the new album.

Love Home at Last too, agree with you about everything you said about Homer.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:40:18 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 7:34 PM PDT
G Dubya says:
My votes:

Here At The Western World (Rivals ZZ Top's La Grange as the best tune about a brothel ever).

Time Out Of Mind (Great guitar by Mark Knopfler, interesting Dave Brubeck-esque time changes).

Glamour Profession (Great lyrics which really paint a mental image, great outtro guitar solo. A big reason why I think Gaucho ranks among the Dan's best).
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 7:58 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
G Dubya: The gaucho album had a lot of great players contributing didn't it. (Mark Knopfler!) Took a long time to produce this album too.
As you would know Steely Dan are touring at the moment and I'm told they hit the stage with the first song being..........(drum roll).......... "Time Out of Mind". (underrated no more!)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:11 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
G Dubya: Totally agree with you on Here at the Western Wold (never thought of comparing it to La Grange, good stuff!)

Also, Glamour Profesion: Love it, that song really does just paint a scene, line after line, brining the scene to life, and then describing what happens. One of the Dans best ever.

Time Out of Mind: One of my all time favorites, but wouldnt say it is underrated. Gets a lot of play at concerts (opens the show on this tour) and is on a lot of greaest hits and lots of radio play too. Great song, though!

The more I listen to Gaucho, the more I do think it was really one the the best. Glamour, Time Out of Mind, Hey Nineteen, Bablyon, title track. Great stuff! Only downside is Third World Man, and not a huge fan of My Rival.

Man, just thinking about this stuff. I dont think I could ever rank all the 70s albums, I think it would change hourly.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 8:20 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: You know, I am trying to think of other lines, there are just too damn many! Maybe something from Hatian Divorce. Maybe Two Against Nature, ALL of the AjA album. There is just too much.

Some I like, not my favorite.

MAYBE HE'S A FAIRY

DONT YOU THINK IT WAS WRONG TO INTERUPED MY SONG?





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:18 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Hey guys, there are still a few trivia question that havent been answered. Do you want to keep trying, or do you just want me to give you the answers. I also have some more I havent put up if you want them.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:27 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ok guys, ready for this, because I think you'll love it!!

When the Dan were in London in July, they had two very special guest to their show on the 7th. One of them was the legendary guitarist from one of the biggest groups of all time: Pink Floyd. Yup, David Gilmour was at a Steely Dan concert. And the other guy, well I guess he had a pretty big band fron the 60s and has been pretty successful ever sense.

Yeah, some guy named PAUL MCCARTNEY!!!!!!!!!!

McCartney and Gilmour and Major Dudes!! They came into the concert a couple minutes after it started and were acually not bothered much, just a lot of "doubletakes" from all the people. They were really getting into it too, in fact, when Becker introduced Fagen, Gilmour and McCartney lept to their feet and had their hands held high clapping. In fact the last guy standing was McCartney! They left a couple minutes before it ending to avoid the fans rushing them.

Wild! Goes to show you how great Steely Dan really is. I think that is just the coolest thing ever! McCartney and Gilmour - Dan Fans!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:30 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Yeah TZ I just like to hear the answers (cause I've probably got no idea). Always interesting stuff though





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:35 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
In my last post, I mentioned Becker intoducing Fagen. I think that is one of my favorite moments at Dan concerts. Becker goes through everybody, and then does a 5 minute speech about Fagen. Before he even announces his name, every single person is on their feet, clapping and screaming for him. Makes you feel so great that he knows that we all appreciate everything he does for the Dan. And how does Fagen react to 25000 people cheering for him: nothing, doesnt even lift his head. Love it! No ego on these guys, and what pals, Becker introduces Fagen and then slips him in afterwards. Two great guys who will always get a standing ovation as long as I am around.

Let me break it up:

Becker is the best in the world
Fagen is GOD!

Fagen is the greatest guy to ever live (not counting McCartney) and is truly God on earth!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:41:28 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:36 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Sure, I'll post the answers later.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 2, 2007 9:00 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
More lyric;

SHE'S LOVELY
YES SHE'S FLY
AND YOU'RE AN ORDINARY GUY
HAS SHE FINALLY GOT TO YOU
ARE YOU WITH ME DOCTOR?

There's a kindness to some of the Dan lyrics that challenges the common assumption of smug smart alec.... ness.

What about;

LORD I KNOW YOU'RE A SPECIAL FRIEND
BUT YOU REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND
YOU'RE A NASTY SCHOOLBOY WITH NO PLACE TO GO
TRY AGAIN TOMORROW

This poor messed up friend is not permanently rejected at all. There is an obvious fondness for this silly character who just seems to hang around a lot (now turning up with his new gaucho amigo pal in a spangled leather poncho)...... it's just time for him to go away for a while. Business calls. Come back tomorrow.

There's lots of heart when you look for it. Any Major Dude / Any World that I'm Welcome to / Josie. Any others?





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 2, 2007 8:59 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ.....the greatest guy to ever live and truly God on Earth...........Hmmmm.

While I admire your enthusiasm I think it's important to note that Steely Dan is not actively working on a cure to cancer.
There have not been any inroads towards the creation of true world peace from Steely Dan.
Come to think of it I don't believe there has been any sacrifical death from Steely Dan that has formed a pivotal moment in mankind's history thereby providing an answer to man's inherant fractured human nature.

Still..... absolutely fabulous musicians and lyricists and there is no way you'll find my concert tickets on E.Bay as was earlier suggested. (I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Dirty Work.)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:26 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Tz hey dude.... Alex ...and all the guys who've added to this excellent discussion...... this has been most enjoyable indeed. Thankyou. Let's open this discussion up to all things of Dan-ness and other musical influences and such. This conversation could last beyond the life of Amazon at the rate we're going.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 10:11 AM PDT
millionrainbows says:
I always noticed how Steely Dan was jazz, in that the vocal harmonies were actually horn arrangements in disguise, so to speak.

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 10:18 AM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
I can't agree more Ross.

This is a fab discussion and the best I have ever seen anywhere online. I think of you guys as friends and actually go online whether I need to or not just to make this connection.

TZ, your demi-god status has been secured after your Fagen is god comments. I remember when Clapton was god.

I'm glad to see that everyone is as messed up about fave lines as I am. After I posted the question, I was listening to our subjects (Or are they royalty and we are mere subjects?) and there is far too many great lines for me to ever pick just one or even a top ten.

I also like the Dr. Wu sweetness. It is just so right in the feeling and matches the music SO WELL. That is one of the many cool things about the songs, the lyrics are a complement to the notes, not just some random hook chorus with a lot of filler verse. The words are integral to the tune.

I'm sure that the songs would sound great without the lyrics, but I feel that it would be like excluding one of the instruments.

Going back to when I entered these hallowed digital halls of Steely Dan, the lyrics "Any World that I'm Welcome to, is better than the one where I come from," just wrench my heart around. Here's a guy (Me) who is saying goodbye to his past and starting over. No recriminations, no regrets, just going off to find a new world to make a new life for themselves. Very touching without being smarmy.

The reputation for being arch and ironic is well deserved, but there is so much more to Steely Dan than just the hip-ness aspect of their words.

I knew you wouldn't sell out, Ross. You guys are making me reconsider that weird anomaly. But I still don't like it.

You guys though are Major in your Dude-ness.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 10:38 AM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
What a great story about Gilmour and McCartney! It is telling that they entered as members of the audience and did not seek anonymity and backstage pass privilege, which they surely could have gotten. It is also interesting that they show up for the same concert.

I'm not a huge McCartney fan. I always felt that he did not push himself to his absolute best and settled for some mediocre versions of songs. It is a good example of synergy. With Lennon, Paul was great nearly 100% of the time. This opinion goes the other direction as well. Lennon was much better with Paul.

Don't get me wrong, they were both good solo (Band on the Run is one of my perenial top ten albums) it just always seemed to me that no one would say to Paul, "You know that song lacks punch."

So we get back to Walter and Donald and I absolutely agree with TZ when he said, "Crap" to my suggestion that Fagen was actually Steely Dan and Walter was simply a strong studio player. (You guys know I was not seriously suggesting this scenaario, Right?) As good as Fagen solo efforts are, they are NOT Dan albums.

It is also interesting to me who gets invited to play on Steely Dan albums. There is no gimmick pairings like McCartney and Michael Jackson or the ever god-like Santana and whoever happens to be near the studio that day.

TZ, do you have (I am certain you do) a list of "guest stars" from the Holy Book of Dan. People that played with other bands before beinf a "part" of Steely Dan?

And yes TZ, I am interested in the answers to your teasers. I am stumped. (Though I'm kicking myself over the Phil Hartman one. I knew that!)

Alex Mitchell's

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:42:18 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 10:43 AM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
"Dreary Architecture of your soul"

How do they think of that stuff? It is funny, ironic and heartfelt all at once. And piercingly direct without being totally cruel.

Good call on that line Ross.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 10:49 AM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Thanks to G Dubya for noting the Brubeck influence. All Dan fans should pick up the original Take Five album from Dave Brubeck and listen to the songs that Walter and Donald learned from.

It is so interesting to me, because they really carry the spirit of Brubeck's changes throughout the structure of their songs, but never mimic or copy any of the chops.

After listening to Time Out go immediately to Nightfly and be amazed at how Fagen grows Dave's music into something (dare I say it?) EVEN BETTER!

And what a great line, "So you're mad about Brubeck? I like your eyes, I like him too."

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 11:26 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2007 11:27 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alrigh, here are the answers:

First single - Dallas
B side - Sail the Waterways

(NEVER released on CD)

One person Fagen wanted to be the singer for the Dan was Elliot Lurie who had the hit single Brandy (you're a fine girl)

And how did AM radio play FM, listen to this!

They took out the "F" from FM, and insterted the "A" from AjA, when Fagen sings "A - JA!! When all my dime..." So they took off the F, put on the A, and then the song was "AM! No static at all!" Wow! What a story!

Alex: Thank you, if Clapton can be God, Fagen can be as well. And I know you werent serious about the Becker comment.

I can tell you some guest starts, but I will do that one of the next times I post. Although I will tell you this: The back up vocals on FM - the Eagles!

Also: Fun Fact. FM won the grammy for best enginerring in 78 (given to their engineer Roger Nichols) and it is the only single to ever revice that award. AjA also won it in 77.

Also, most expensive album ever made: Gaucho.

There was one song that was one of the highlights of Gaucho, "The Second Arrangement" and Becker and Fagen were very proud of it. But one night, Nichols was horrified to discover that all but a small fraction of the song had been accidentally erased by an assistant engineer. Roger Nichols quickly tried to find Katz (the producer) and eventually found him eating dinner at a restaurant. It was Nichols who also broke the bad news to the band. When Fagen was notified, he simply walked out of the studio without saying a word. Attempting to re-record it proved to be too discouraging, so they abandoned the song.

Terrible. Lot of stuff happened during Gaucho that helped mark the end of the Steely Dan (well, for 20 years) There are a lot more stories I could tell, if you want.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 12:05 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
TZ, are you some kind of prodigy? Is the topic of Steely Dan the only thing you apply your powerful brain to? Or are you agenius in other fields as well?

Well chances are that "assistant engineer" had some difficulty finding work for a while. What a shame that we lost a track, but what would it have replaced?

Gaucho just stands alone in its quality and although I would still cite Aja as my favorite Steely Dan album, I believe that Gaucho is the more brilliant, that is the MOST brilliant of all Steely Dan art.

Do I want more stories? Yes! I think you should write a book.

How funny to me the story of Eliott Lurie. "Brandy" is one of those songs that I would never try to defend as a good tune. It is corny and formulaic and everything that I generally dislike in pop music, but I LOVE IT! Truly a guilty pleasure for me and the key ingredient is the strong vocal track.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 12:38 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: Steely Dan is really the only band I can give all this informtion, but I know almost as much with the Beatles, but not quite like this.

The track would not have replaced any, there would be 8 tracks on the album. It would open the album.

I will definitly put more stories as this disucssion goes on. This has got to be the fastest growing discussion on Amazon. Over 150 posts in about a week.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 1:22 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
TZ, it is a positive and upbeat post. We all seem to be able to pay respect to each others opinions without rancor. Even our disagreements are friendly and considered and respectful.

Personally I love to hear other points of view. I don't need to agree with or have everybody else agree with me on anything.

The Beatles are one of my faves from LONG ago, but I will tell you when they first became popular I did not like them! It went like this: The early Beatles songs that hit my ears were "She Loves You (Yeah, Yeah, Yeah)and "Please, please me oh Yeah". I just thought the lyrics were stupid and repetitious. In addition the two girls who lived next door, Sally and Sue, were Beatlemaniacs extraordinaire. They were cute and I had a crush on both of them. These "stupid and repetitious idiots" (from my diary at the time) were taking the girls attention away from me. All of the boys in the neighborhood felt pretty much the same and some made it a patriotic thing. The Beatles were "un-American".

It didn't take long before we went to a party and all the girls were dancing to these same songs and looking real groovy. We styarted to dance too and then the 60's really kicked into full swing. I have actually written, judged and won various Beatle trivia contests over the years and recently passed on an extensive library of titles related to the Fabs, as well as a number of collectible peices of vinyl (all to a worthy cause).

Still, Steely Dan is on my "turntable" more often these days than any other rock band. The only other thing that I listen to more is straight ahead jazz. Miles Davis, Theloniuos Monk, Vince Guaglardi, Pat Metheny and so on.

Just a reminder to everyone, hit the yes button if you think we are adding to the discussion.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 3:51 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Interesting site alert.

http://www.steelydandictionary.com/

Alex Mitchell's

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:43:11 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 3:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 4, 2007 5:30 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
What was that weird Steely Dan song about the kids watching films? Strange one...

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 4:20 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Anagrammatical names are so cool. Mine doesn't work out to anything cool at all. My favorite is a musician named Roger Landes who put out a CD called Dragon Reels, which is an anagram of his name.

My reference is to the many people who dropped acid and then named their children things like "Peaceful Nature" or "Harvest Gold" or Sunshine Mellow". No kidding, I knew these kids when they were born! I have lost track of them in the intervening years, but I hear that Peaceful goes by Pete nowadays and is a corporate guy for a cell phone service.

The song you are probably thinking of is "Show biz kids" who are "makin'movies of themselves. You know they don't give a ***k about anybody else." One of the only times I know of that Steely Dan got bleeped on the radio.

It is a really good tune and could possibly qualify for underrated, based on limited airplay due to the lyric.

TZ, does it make the grade?

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 4:39 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Millionrainbows: I like your reference to "vocal harmonies actually like horn arrangements in disguise." Good observation.
I always love how Phil Collins used the horn section on some of his early solo stuff and made it sound like percussion in disguise. Have you heard (in particular) the Phil Collin's song "It Don't matter to Me". A fantastic tripling of drums/horns/voice in a way I've never heard elswhere.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:03 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2007 5:04 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Peter Gabriel is better, but Phil is really underrated. He chose a more "pop" path, but the structures that he uses are really intelligent.

Gabriel is the more "serious" musician and a personal fave, but sometimes just too heavy. Phil is sometimes too light.

Steely Dan, Just right!

I second Ross on the opinion of Millionrainbows reference. You're both a couple a smart guys. Me, I'm just a smart alex.
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:07 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: Yeah, on most other discussions, all the people attack each other for their opinions, we discusses it friendly. That just must be how Steely Dan fans are. Steely Dan is also on my "CD player" more than any other band.

Also, the Steely Dan dictionary is a really great place to find information on the Dan.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:13 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: Showbiz Kids gets bleeped where you live, because on my classic rock station they dont bleep the line out. First time I heard it, I was shocked. I thought someone let it slip, but my dad said it has never gotten bleeped. Strange.

Anyway, yes, Showbiz Kids is underrated. Because of limited airplay MOST places.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:20 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex... good on ya mate.... enjoy your thoughts.

In further defence against the supposed assumed 100% ascerbic arch sardonic sarcastic smug nature of the 'Dan...... please note the following examples of heart.

WHO MAKES THE MORNING FABULOUS
WHO SAYS TODAY'S A FUN DAY
WHY DO I FEEL LIKE SAILING AGAIN
HONEY IT'S YOU... JAINE RUNAWAY

Ain't love grand. They're just a pair of old softees !

WHO MAKES THE TRAFFIC INTERESTING
RESCUES A DREARY SUNDAY
WHO MAKES ME FEEL LIKE PAINTING AGAIN

I had assumed some time ago(although I really liked the music of Steely Dan), that they would be pretty damn unpleasent people to meet. I don't think that anymore though. I would once have assumed that the idea of Steely Dan interviewing people at random in the back of a taxi in Vegas would be simply to mock those people .... but this proved not to be the case at all. There is a lot of genuine heart and empathic interest in each of those "characters" (real people). This sort of thing made me understand better the catalogue of Steely Dan and view it less two dimensionally.

Just like the music.... the lyrics have more to them than first impressions afford. This is why Steely Dan songs stand up to repeated listenings for years and years without getting old and boring.

(... and hey ...what about Lizzy?!! Would she get a bit annoying? Dizzy thing ... but she actually made proper sense. Perceptive and dizzy... what a combination!)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:29 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ Your story about AM radio doctoring the song FM to say AM by utilising the A of A-JA is hilarious.(did that last sentence make any sense at all??) Is the story really true or just an urban myth?. I don't care really... it's just a great story anyway.
Enjoy the trivia points. Always interesting.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:42 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Yeah I'd heard that the Gaucho album was the most expensive album to produce ever. Also took a loooooooong time to produce. I thought it suffered for this in EXACTLY the same way Peter Gabriel's last new album did.(called "UP"). Too much second guessing. Too much agonising over decisions. Too many people involved.
That's why Gaucho ended up being slightly over cooked by the time it was served to the people. Don't get me wrong... I love the Gaucho album... but it definately lost some of the sparkle and immediacy of the AJA album (and earlier material) and popped out of the oven just a little to smooth and safe.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 5:52 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
millionrainbows and TZ;
I've always prized Show Biz Kids as one of the better songs. Love the backing vocals flat jazz chanting style. But what are they saying?. Something about "hot swages"..... what is that..... some sort of delicious mexican cuisine. "Lost wages you're gonna boss splageus"..... wot!!! sorry??.

TZ I know you can put me right.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:44:08 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 6:09 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex.... Oh, Phil Collins can be a serious musician alright. Have you heard his drumming for the band called "Brand X"?. This band ran for years in parallel with Genesis. Very serious "music for Musos" if you know what I mean. Sophisticated high end jazz fusion that is so damn clever and complicated that to my lazy ears it is rendered unlistenable. (Look how clever and complicated we can be while remaining technically and mathematically correct!!!)

I do not understand how the same guy can produce sick making radio friendly songs like "One More Night" (gimmee just one more night ... oooh...oooh...oooohh) and Sussssudio (soo soo sudio..... oh...oh).

By the way... as to Phil Collin's most underrated song IMHO. The first track on his 2nd solo album. The obvious sequel to "In the Air Tonight"........(drum roll).....was......... (extended drum roll)........... "I DON'T CARE ANYMORE".

Certainly not an anthem to live by ..... but it is SUCH a powerful song. Unbelievable!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 6:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2007 6:16 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
I had to go dig it up; it's "Everyone's Gone To The Movies" from Katy Lied. Who else but the Dan could tackle such a subject? Obscure references: (1) to "Cathy Berberian", Luciano Berio's wife, in "Your Gold Teeth" (Countdown To Ecstacy). (2) I will always believe (don't try to change my mind) that the Farfisa (or Yamaha) organ solo in "Do It Again" (Can't Buy A Thrill) with close echo on it, which follows the electric sitar solo, is a nod to Terry Riley's "A Rainbow In Curved Air". Riley gave a performance in L. A. on April 18, 1971, and Can't Buy A Thrill was released in 1972, so it's very possible the Danć could have attended some of Riley's all-night concerts. Alex, so far I've come up with "Hellcat lix me", "Le hellcat mix", and "Hellcat Lem Xi". I seem to be stuck on the hellcat variations. By the way, this posting has inspired me to rip my Steely Dan CDs into the computer for later i-pod use at work.

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 7:16 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: You really like Two Against Nature, and your Janie Runaway lyrics are great. Can you tell me how TAN stacks up with 70s Dan to you?





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 7:24 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: The FM/AM thing is true.

I agree also with Gaucho, it seems like it SHOULD be just as good as Aja, but it seems a little more "forced" the Aja, which was so smooth.

Oh, the offical Showbiz Kids lyrics: "You go to Lost Wages." Love that song! Really puts LA and the Showbiz Kids in their place.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 7:25 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Hey guys, quick question:

Anyone remember S. Purcell?

If you guys do, I have to tell you a story about him, me, and the Dan.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 7:29 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2007 7:30 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Another converasation:

What do you think is the Dan's strangest, weirdest, scariest,
or most disturbing song.

Here are some: Royal Scam and Showbiz Kids, scary because it really shows life at both ends of America. Immigrents comming to NYC, and LA Showbiz Kids not giving a s**t about anyone but themselves.

Disturbing: Cousin Dupree and Everyone's Gone to the Movies. (I think you know why for both!)

Weirdest: Your call!

Also, for my favorite line, possibly something from King of the World





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 7:34 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 3, 2007 7:48 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
I heard George Carlin do a routine in which he mentions "Those people who like Steely Dan", presumably some sort of yuppie-variant. I must admit it was funny. Who am us? Pretzel Logic as an older brother's advice: Rikki Don't Lose That Number, Any Major Dude Will Tell You, Barrytown, Through With Buzz. Any comments on Barrytown, or a certain line in Through With Buzz? I have never met Napoleon...ironic...

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 8:35 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ: I see Two Against Nature as being up there with AJA really. It's as good as anything they've ever done. It's certainly better than Gaucho. The thing that amazed me when I first heard TAN was that it didn't sound like there had been any long hiatus between albums. As if Steely Dan lost their footing a tiny bit with Gaucho, but did a brilliant follow up in TAN the following year. (gee it was actually decades apart wasn't it?)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:45:32 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 3, 2007 8:41 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
There are a lot of kind of weird concepts and characters in Steely Dan songs. What the hell is Gaslighting Abby about? I don't think I want to know because it might ruin future enjoyment of the song......(love the music and feel of the song.)I do like that the lyrics are usually just images and snapshots rather than prescriptive (restrictive) narratives.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 1:30 AM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Purcell the obnoxious lurker? Purcell the hated self righteous judge? There is actually a thread in the Amazon community asking the question "Why does everyone hate S. Purcell?" Common wisdom has it that the person that started it is actually Purcell in disguise. I personally have no animosity for this being, but they do seem to have instigated a great backlash against themselves. Let's have the tale TZ!

Yes Ross, The AM version of FM is actually out there and sounds less than perfect. A good try, but no cigar. I have actually seen (and subsequently heard) a bootleg pressing 45 that was run by a major station in a major midwestern US radio market. Not quite an official version released by Steely Dan and with the call letters prominent on the label. I tried to buy the thing, but NO SALE!

Radio has loosened up a lot, TZ and I have not heard the bleep for many years, but when the song "Showbiz kids" first came out there was actually an "official" release from the studio that was "sanitized for airplay" as we used to say. Moderately collectible bit of vinyl, but not really all that interesting from my point of view.

TZ, a 45 means that it was a disc that turned on a turntable at 45 rpm and produced a sound by placing a needle into a groove, hence the term "groovy" which the Dan most definitely is. You young folks with your MVI CD players contraptions! I owned a few wax cylinders at one point, though I don't think Becker and his bud ever worked in that lo-fi medium.

Disturbing song by S.D.? I gotta go with your first choice TZ. Royal Scam is out and out chilling to me. It sounds as if it is the soundtrack to a psychological thriller. I genuinely fear for the fate of the folks within said sad tale.

MillionRainbows - I saw George Carlin a few years ago at the book expo in Chicago. Here is a guy that I just thought was the funniest, most perceptive person on the planet for all the years I was growing up. It was weird that night. We almost walked out. He was like a crabby old man yelling about the kids walking on his grass or playing to close to his flowers or something. Very sad, actually. I do recall the Steely Dan joke and I think you've got it correct, but sometimes he is just picking on people and things for no real reason. I really like to laugh and if it is at my expense and points out a foible or two I'm with the joke. It is just a bit disappointing when there is no real point.

Gosh that last bit was a downer, sorry guys.

Ross - At the risk of this turning into a Collins discussion, I have always really liked "I don't care anymore". In my Sales Training days I used to say that we sometimes get to the IDC point, the I Don't Care point, with our customers. They make so many demands and the promise of profit or comission dwindles to the IDC point and we loose our passion for completing the sale.

On the sales floor, when someone had spent too long with one customer and the deal was going south, I would play that song overhead as a signal to cut losses and run. The team thought it was hysterical and would walk past the sales rep singing it out loud.

My fave Phil is still "In the air tonight". It was used in an episode of Miami Vice to extremely good effect and I still have the image of Don Johnson realizing that all was not as it had seemed and he had been betrayed, while Phil sang and played in the background.

Besides FM and the questionable "Me, myself and Irene" has Dan been featured on any other soundtracks? It seems a natural somehow, but I can't recall.

I believe the lyric is "Going to Lost Wages" a reference to Las Vegas, where people gamble their wages away. It is close, relatively speaking to Hollywood and the L.A. scene and is a notorious getaway spot in the past history of movie stars. Not so much anymore, but in the day of Frank Sinatra and his buddies and even a earlier, it was a fast drive across the desert and some quick action and live shows. An excellent, though brutal movie about Vegas is "Casino". It is based closely on true events. Don't hesitate to fast foward through some of Joe Pesci's scenes. I am not squeamish, but I do zip past certain eye popping sequences.

Speaking of movies! (Cool segue, huh?) Ross, the term "Gaslighting" is, I believe a reference to the movie "Gaslight". I think the man was trying to drive his wife crazy or some such and the director and scriptwriter focused some imagery around a gas light. My memory is a little hazy on this one, but it is how I understood the lyric.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:55 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex: The movie Director Michael Mann released a special Director's Cut of the Miami Vice 2006 movie. So very much better than the hastily edited theatrical version. (Again thank heavens for the internet and Amazon and such..... because only the poorer theatrical version is available in Australia. Crazy!. ANYWAY..... I was surprised at how well the updated (NONPOINT ? is the name of the band) version of "In the Air Tonight" worked in the movie. The director's version moved this song back to where the team was preparing for the big final shootout. Actually a lot of the soundtrack music was shifted about for the Director's cut. It was a neat nod to the original TV pilot episode you mentioned.

Just to remain in the fold of this conversation, let me add the following phrase.

Steely Dan.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 6:23 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
The more I listen to Two Against Nature, the higher I put it up with the best of the 70s. Like I said before, to rank all the Dan albums would be impossible for me.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 6:32 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: I acually started that thread because beside the Steely Dan story I will tell you guys, I had no idea what this guy was doing that was so bad. I had no idea that he was acually harrasing people. So, I set it up because I thought people were just mad that he loved U2 (great band by the way) I had no idea what else was going on between him and the amazon community.

Also, I know that Do It Again is on a soundtrack from a couple years ago, but I cant remember the name of the movie. Something about Toby McGuire was Dennis Quaid's boss.

Oh, and the lyrics for Showbiz Kids - The lyrics that I posted are what Becker and Fagen said were the offical lyrics, but they might just be messing around.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 6:45 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 4, 2007 6:47 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Before we were talking about why Gaucho doesnot have that "something" that Aja did, and I think I can tell you what that is:

When Walter Becker was going home one night, a yellow cab hit him, and hurt his leg badly. Because of that accident, Becker hardly around for the album's final mixing. He would sometimes come to the studio in a wheelchair, but would be in so much pain he would usually leave in less than a half hour. Although the album was mixed with his consulation, his hands-on input was badly missed.

That show, again, how important each of the two were to the sound that was Steely Dan. If Becker could have been around, we may have had another Aja.

Oh, speaking of Aja: There was a song called "Were You Blind That Night?" that was oringinally going to be on AJA, but Fagen and Becker did not love the last version of the song and they trashed it at the very end. Anyway, for Gaucho, they got that song back, did a little change with the lyrics, and that song became Third World Man.

Man, I am so glad they took it off Aja, because I am not a fan of the song.

Man, imagine if they didnt put Third World Man on, if the idiot had not erased "The Second Arrangment" and Becker had not been hit by that cab, this could have been the biggest Steely Dan album EVER, and one of the biggest of all time. Plus, they proabably would have done at least another 1 or 2 albums after this. Geez, would have been great, but as Fagen said, Gaucho was just full of bad luck.

BTW: Gaucho was nominated for Album of the Year in 1980.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 9:39 AM PDT
B. J. Mark says:
I have a book containing sheet music for all Dan albums through "Aja" and, if it is to be believed, the line in Show Biz Kids is " Go to Las Wages,". Also, in Doctor Wu, the line is "She is lovely, yes, she's sly,". These agree with what I hear from my speakers, too. On that subject, if we're taking a poll, in Midnite Cruiser I hear "Felonius" with an F.

B. J. Mark's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 10:30 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Here is the Purcell story:

On one discussion, a talk of overrated bands started, and Purcell acually had the nerve to call Steely Dan overrated. The minute I saw that, I ripped him apart about it, and for the first time ever, someone had shut Purcell up. Then about a week later, he told me that he wanted to hear what was so good about this band, so I told him to listen to Aja. He ordered it, listened to it, and then told me he absolutly loved it! He then got even more Steely Dan stuff and thanked me for showing him the glory of the Dan!

So there you go, only Steely Dan could shut Purcell up and acually make him admit he was WRONG about something! (And a little help from yours truly, thank you.)

My god, these guys are good!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 11:55 AM PDT
millionrainbows says:
Hellcat Lem XI: I have no opinion on George Carlin. And it was a relief to hear who started that thread, because I thought it might have been that guy from Dateline.

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 3:59 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
B J Mark/ TZ : are you sure about the DR WU lyric...... I've always been confused on this one. "She's lovely , yes she's ......" You say "sly" and I had thought "fly". Please understand that I live in Australia (although your President is staying not 50 kilometers from me in Sydney at the moment) and I'm sometimes not totally sure of your slang terms. I had thought that the term "FLY" in this context meant "sleek smart cool and attractive".... is this right? Also, I had the impression (possibly wrong)that it was a term that an African American could effectively use but that it would sound silly or forced from the mouth of a white person.(Can't dance or jump you see). Is this correct? Has this changed over time?
Either way, the idea of the character in the song being "SLY" in Dr Wu doesnt seem to fit to me.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:46:17 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 4:12 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ thanks for the Gaucho story. Hadn't heard about the yello cab accident. Really nothing but trouble on that album. Still though... a lot of trouble brought on themselves by mucking about second guessing every tiny detail and generally agonising too much. Compare that to how Everything Must Go was popped out. Not their best album by far but it's got a sparkle and some rough edges that give it life! Gaucho was so thoroughly processed and refined and smoothed and checked and filtered and rechecked and redone and remixed and on and on ......
No wonder they stopped for a holiday after that one.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 4:47 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Here is another reason why, even though Gaucho was almost as good as Aja, it didnt sell anythink like Aja did.

When it was released, Gaucho retailed at $9.98, the first non-soundtrack album in history to sell above 8.98. MCA went to $9.98 over screaming objections. I personally blame the high price for the album's failure to match the incrdible sucess of Aja. Becker and Fagen begged and pleades with MCA but their resopnse was "We price the record, you have nothin to say about it or else we shelve it" These bastards! Becker called them the mafia, and both him and Fagen hope their audience would not blame them for this. MCA really runied a chance to have another Aja sucess on their hands, and I would like to punch whoever decided to raise the price. Just more reasons Gaucho was filled with bad luck.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 4:48 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Great point comparing Gaucho to EMG. You make such a great point!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 4:52 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 4, 2007 4:57 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Yeah TZ.(Regarding the original price of Gaucho).......just non creative people getting in the way again..... eyes so fixed on the dollar that they end up shooting themselves in the foot! Happens all the time.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 4:56 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ... yes the Gaucho EMG comparison is interesting. There's good hope for the next project. Maybe they're loosening up a bit. More comfortable to tour now. Popping out albums relatively painlessly.
SO WHAT ABOUT A TOUR DVD THEN...EH!!!???





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:09 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
TZ, That was YOU that started the why do we hate Purcell thread! Cool.

Like I said I have not had any run-ins with he or she (some debate on that one), but have heard from other Amazon posters some horror stories. Now it seems as if Amazon themselves are deleting Purcell's posts. Check out the classic rock thread about underrated bands. Purcell actually tried to say that U2 was underrated and a wave of backlash went out. Amazon deleted Purcell's posts from that thread! I have never heard of that happening before.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:25 PM PDT
millionrainbows says:
TZ, it may be just as risky to dig up old wounds. He got deleted not for underrating U2, but for making veiled threats and interrupting threads he shouldn't have ranted on. Uncool.

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:29 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Indeed.... if that nonsense starts ...it'll be "see ya later" from me.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2007 6:58 AM PDT
millionrainbows says:
Then don't use his name as a diversion, shield, or bludgeon,for starters.

millionrainbows's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:37 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: Nothing new on the DVD in a while, maybe it is just a dream.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:42 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: Yeah, it was me. I had absolutly no idea what he was doing, I though they were just bashing him because he really like U2. After I realized that he was this little bastard.

millionrainbows: I know it's uncool, I just brought him up for the sake of the story. You seem to be kind of sensitive about S. Purcell.

Ross: Don't worry, nothing like that will happen here.

Alright, no more talking about him, lets get back to Steely Dan.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 5:44 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
BTW: Has anyone here ever heard the Dan's first single: Dallas or Sail the Waterways. I havent.

Over 200 posts!

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:47:54 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 4, 2007 8:56 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Well over 200 posts now !!

Errr.... um... Steely Dan!





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 5:39 AM PDT
Squire Jaco says:
According to Wikipedia:

[Neither song has ever been included on a compilation or album of any kind, or re-released in any form, with few exceptions: a 12" European EP titled "Plus Fours." - this 1978 EP features "Dallas," "Sail the Waterway," "Do It Again" and "Haitian Divorce." "The Probe Family Sampler" - released by Music for Pleasure in the UK - included "Dallas".]

I do know that the band Poco released an album in 1975 called "Head Over Heels" that included a great cover of the song "Dallas". Sort of sounds like "Midnight Cruiser" to me, or in that same style at least.

Squire Jaco's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 7:33 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 5, 2007 7:34 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Squire: Yeah, I knew that it had never been put on any CD or album even, just the orignial single and the other EPs you mentioned.

So, unless anyone here owned the single or EP, we have nothing.

Al least there is a cover of "Dallas." Like Midnight Crusier, you say. Cool! I know that one of the two songs did NOT have Fagen on vocals, and it was in fact the drummer, Jim Hodder, singing. (I'm pretty sure he sang on Sail the Waterway.)

Too bad, I would really love to hear them. You would think they would come up in either the box set, or one of the countless collections of unreleased Steely Dan stuff, but nothing. Oh well, maybe someday.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 2:06 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Hey guys. This is my response to a post from Millionrainbows from another thread about Pink Floyd. I think he has some good points and wanted to give you the heads up. We do not want to be seriously dissing anyone here and I feel that we have not truely slammed anybody. My post about Carlin was too close. I am going to leave it up and take my lumps for it, unless anyone thinks it should be deleted. It was a true experience and I was disappointed, but I still have great admiration for Carlin. If he was off one night, I think I can cut him slack. He's been on far more often than that!

Here's my reply:

Millionrainbows! Your point is well taken, I did indeed dis George. It was not my intention to come off quite so harsh as it seems when I reread the post. George is an icon and I actually am a huge fan and have been since I first saw the hippy dippy weatherman routine on TV (Black & White I believe!)

I do think that you have a wrong impression of the comments regarding Purcell. This person has a legendary history of abuse and I believe we were commenting more on that than on Purcell themselves.

TZ started the thread asking why everyone hated Purcell in an attempt to gain some perspective. He also made the point in his story that Purcell mellowed on the stance against Steely Dan. In TZ's veiw this was a big plus and he told the tale to give the perspective that Purcell is NOT always something evil, as is the legend.

I want to make it clear that I have nothing against this person (Can someone clear up the gender issue for me? Purcell has been referred to as both male and female. I'm fairly certain someone thinks it is an insult to refer to hims in feminine terms and that Purcell is male, but there is enough doubt in my mind that I don't really want to say he or she. Political correctness? Maybe. I just want to be polite.)

If someone has strong opinions that is one thing. The fact that Amazon has taken the action of deleting Purcell's posts does indicate that maybe it is not just strong opinions being voiced. That is not a mean spirited comment. That is a legitimate observation.

As far as being hippy or non, I was and still carry that sensibility to a degree, though I have overcome a lot of the kneejerk liberalism of the times and I chose to take positive actions toward things I agree with rather than protest against things that I dislike. It was a time and it is past.

Like yourself I just bought the albums as they came out and like yourself I replaced all the vinyl with CD's.

I find it amusing when I am caught behaving like an old coot and you caught me!

If anything, I think Steely Dan have gotten less "coot-like" as the years went on. I hope I look as good as Fagen when I am his age, which will be just a few years away!

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 2:16 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
TZ I have heard them, but honestly don't remember them as anything special. Good, but not great. If you have ever heard the album that is some of Becker and Fagen's real early stuff (billed as Steely Dan, but I think there is some liberty taken there) Dallas and Sail were better then that. Better mixed for sure!

I do wonder why the guys didn't included them in the Citizen Dan box set. Thye seemed to be striving for completeness there.

Also, Fagen did a song for Heavy Metal and also one called "Century's End" for another flick (Mid 90's I think, Bright Lights, Big City maybe?).

I looked into my personal records and found notes on them. (Records, Notes, get it?)

These were things I had on vinyl and have now gone away to a good home. Century's End was very good and I remember adding it to my tape of Nightfly. It actually fit well thematically and sound wise.

Alex Mitchell's




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Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 6:18 PM PDT
Raymond B. Wilson says:
Just gotta go on record...I think "Third World Man" is a fantastic song. I wouldn't call it a favorite, because there are about 200 other SD songs competing for that honor. But I wouldn't wish it off Gaucho. I love the "For the little guys" line.

Good call on "Century's End." Great Donald vocals. Duh...

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In reply to your post on Sep 5, 2007 7:20 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 5, 2007 7:21 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Raymond B. Wilson: Good on you.... I really like "Third World Man" also, and although it's considered a filler track by some (TZ you scallywag) .... I really like it and believe the "Gaucho" album would be the poorer without it. The very slow time signature is rare and has a hypnotic feel to it. Like it.

Just let me add at this point that the term "scallywag" in Australian parlance is by no means intended to suggest an abusive or personally attacking tone or style of communication. Please don't take it the wrong way TZ.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 8:12 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Alex: My dad hear them too, and said the same thing.

The reason they werent on the box set was because Becker and Fagen claimed that they throw out all their deoms and unrelased recordings, so they did not have the two songs. I dont know if I believe that.

Love Century's End. Classic Fagen. Is on the Nightfly Boxset.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 8:14 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 5, 2007 8:15 PM PDT
T Z Me says:
Third World Man: Not a big fan at all. But, you do make some good points, Ross.

Oh, and its a good thing you explained "scallywag" to me. I was just about to report you to Amazon for harrassment. ;)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 8:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 5, 2007 8:43 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
TZ.... what exactly do you mean when you blatently announce that I "make some good points"..... Hmmmm ?? ;)





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 8:58 PM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
There seems to be a few unauthorised releases of early Steely Dan demos and such. Given various titles like "the early years" and such, they can be interesting to listen to once or twice as they contain early ideas for songs that later appeared on proper album releases.
They also contain duds that never should have seen the light of day.
Fagen and Becker don't want these tunes out in the marketplace bearing their name. It's a bit like stealing the memo pad that Picasso kept beside his phone .... then trying to frame and sell various pages of it to red hot Picasso fans.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 5, 2007 11:45 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Yeah, they misplaced the two songs...that were available on EP's and singles...Riiight...

The problem is some of us are completist's and want everything ever done (except "Dirty Work" of course ;)) Artist's often are not appreciative of their early work, and sometimes rightly so. Still WE want things like live concert DVD's and more.

I recall a story about Steve Martin where he had agreed to be interviewed as long as the host did not ask questions about "Wild & crazy guy" and the King Tut and arrow through the head days. What did the host do? Went right for that stuff and Steve shut up and wouldn't talk. Bad interviewing skills. Martin is very talented and has done so many things that are so much better then his early work.

I guess that Fagen and Becker can excerise the same option, but it would be nice for us to have a completist's option as well. A conundrum.

Along that line, has any one ever heard the Rosie Vela album? It was exceptional and is now out of print. It is commonly credited with getting Becker and Fagen back into the studio together and has a lot of Steely Dan-ish style. It would be unfair to Rosie to say that the only reason her album was any good was because of the guys. She is tremendously talented individual and it is a shame that the disc didn't sell better.

TZ, I am surprised that you don't care for Third World Man. It is not the greatest tune, but I can think of many other Dan songs that are less great. I won't take another cheap shot at my least fave.

I am extremely happy about the inclusion of Century's End.

Good use of the term scallywag Ross.

Alex Mitchell's

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 20, 2007 3:48:44 PM PDT
Ray Wilson says:
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2007 12:18 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Alex !! wow yes.... I've got the Rosie Vela album on LP record but unfortunately didn't go for a CD update till it was too late.

DELETED !

It was called ZAZU and it certainly had that signature Steely Dan sound all over it ..... with Becker and Fagen producing the thing (although Gary Katz gets the credit)it's no wonder. Fagen and Becker even play on several tracks.
"Magic Smile" had SUCH a cool cruisy feel to it. Worth the price of the album. Although there were "filler tracks", I really wish I could get it on CD now.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2007 12:22 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2007 12:23 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Oh and ALEX MITCHELL..... "good use of the term SCALLYWAG..."

EH?

What about being able to squeeze the name "PICASSO" into a conversation about Steely Dan?.... Quite the wordsmith I reckon.
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2007 6:17 AM PDT
T Z Me says:
Ross: "The very slow time signature is rare and has a hypnotic feel to it."

I've been listening to the song more (because everyone seems to love it) and think that it really does have a slow "hypnotic feel" to it.

But, sorry guys, this song is still in my top 2 or 3 worst Dan songs. Its not a bad song, I just think that everything else the Dan did was better. And I still feel that if they had replaced TWM with something else, Gaucho would be so much better.

I dont think that there are more than 3 Dan songs I dont like, this one, With a Gun and Through with Buzz.





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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 12:36 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2007 12:52 AM PDT
Ross P. Hyland says:
Good for you TZ: Man there's nothing wrong with your opinion fella..... no reason to apologise. I'm new to these "discussions" but it seems to me that they often go on for a while then spontaneously implode due to a nasty inability to let people just be themselves. We've made it to 226 posts now and I think that's great.
You and I both love Steely Dan but we don't necessarily hear it the same way. I don't need to make your opinions more like mine so I can feel better about myself.

Come to think of it.... that "slow hypnotic" thing is somewhat reminiscent of "The Dunes" from Fagen's 2nd solo album... Karmerkieairiudeaiud... or whatever....





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Your post, in reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 10:00 AM PDT
Last edited by you on Sep 7, 2007 10:01 AM PDT
Raymond B. Wilson says:
Through with Buzz is a tune that always seems to catch a lot of flack. I thoroughly love that song, too. This one to me is what Steely Dan is all about. There's no one else on the planet that would have recorded that song. And it completely works for me -- not the first time I heard it, maybe, but definitely 35 years later. "He takes all my money"...one of my favorite Dan moments. Pretzel Logic isn't my favorite SD album(unless I happen to be listening to it), but in general I love the flow of Side 2 (yeah, I'm that old). The short ones like Buzz and Monkey in my Soul are a big part of that. "With a Gun" is probably not one of their stronger songs, but it works for me in the context of the album, too.

What don't I like? Well, I scarcely ever listen to CBaT. Several songs there I can do without. And even the ones I like sound a little dated to me. When someone tells me that CBaT is their favorite SD album, I always decide they're not a Dan fan at all. Not fair, I guess....

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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 3:06 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2007 3:09 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
How true Ross. I have watched many threads and, while I had ideas that I wanted to contribute I with held my opinions due to the nature of attacks by some.

In my life I have not backed down from fights, but as time has gone on I just decided that most things are not worth fighting about. Especially opinions about what song or musician has greater or lesser value. Life got a lot more peaceful.

I may not agree with TZ about Third World Man and Dirty Work, But I love the perceptions he and everyone else have offered regarding these tunes and others. In a very real way I appreciate both of these songs even more than before. There, I said it TZ. I APPRECIATE Dirty Work more than ever before. I wouldn't necessarily say I like it...

This is a great thread and I am happy to be a part of it.

Raymond B. - I agree with you that Can't Buy a Thrill sounds a little dated. For me that is part of the charm and I guess it is a bit of nostalgia that creeps in when I hear it. One of my faves? No, but definitly a good one IMHO.

It is a good offhand observation that you make about your favorite Steely Dan album. There are other groups out there that I can say 'this is my fave album' and that opinion does not change (Sgt Pepper, Hasten Down the Wind, Dark Side, Second Contribution, Who's Next, Zoso, etc.), but with Steely Dan I am constantly shifting around.

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 3:24 PM PDT
I. Woods says:
"Only a Fool Would Say That"
"Your Gold Teeth"
"Through With Buzz"
"Parker's Band"
"Charlie Freak"
"Daddy don't live in that NYC No More"
"Glamour Profession"

I. Woods's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 3:42 PM PDT
Bill says:
Get the feeling every song recorded by Steely Dan will be mentioned before this discussion is over? Maybe except "My Rival" and "FM." Then again...

Anyway, my personal fave is "Your Gold Teeth 2." The apex of the Dan's seductive/sinister dichotomy ("... why do you tremble each time they ride by?" "Who are these strangers who pass through the door/who cover your action and go you one more...")

Bill's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 3:51 PM PDT
Alex Mitchell says:
Interesting list I. Woods.

Why did you include Gold Teeth and Glamour profession? Those tend to be songs that are well liked.

I see a trend starting on Through with Buzz however...

Hi Bill. Scroll back a ways and you'll find we were all over FM for a while. I laughed at your opening question however, we definitely have some trufans going on and on about our Steely fun.

And there we are with someone liking Gold Teeth 2. Anyone want to give a comparison of the two? Why did Dan do a "sequel"?

Alex Mitchell's




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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2007 3:55 PM PDT
Sammie David DeLuce says:
How about: Hey Nineteen

Sammie David DeLuce's
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Discussion in:  steely dan forum
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