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International Edition Text


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Posted on Dec 29, 2010 5:15:27 PM PST
I do this all of the time. International Editions are exactly the same as their American counterparts except they are usually very cheap.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2010 6:10:42 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Dec 29, 2010 6:17:02 PM PST]

Posted on Dec 29, 2010 6:16:04 PM PST
Xopher says:
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Posted on Dec 29, 2010 7:58:42 PM PST
Ozyrus is all wet. Buying bootled DVDs is entirely different than buying so-called "foreign editions." Bootleg DVDs are infringing reproductions, made without the permission of the copyright owner. Foreign Editions are not infringing at all. They are generally made by the copyright owners, or at least with their permission. It is the copyright owner's choice to sell them more cheaply in other countries, and the copyright owner should not complain when it sells it so cheaply that it creates a market for arbitrage. It is the copyright owner that is no better than a common thief when, having sold it, tries to prevent the new owner from profiting by reselling it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2010 8:03:34 PM PST
Kudos to your professors, tofu_maniac. While I believe buying International Editions is perfectly legal, some of the major college textbook publishers have been suing, and puling the wool over the eyes of several judges. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals already has one case ready to decide, and another that will be argued in January, where the textbook publishers argue that because they "made" the copies abroad, the "first sale doctrine" of the U.S. Copyright Act does not apply to those copies. Under their theory of the law, even lending a foreign-made copy or giving it away infringes their copyrights. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2010 8:10:34 PM PST
C. Miller: This it totally false. Even the major textbook publishers suing to stop people from selling foreign editions in the U.S. acknowledge that the foreign editions are not infringing copies. After all, they, themselves, make them. They claim that they typically use cheaper paper, cheaper ink, and cheaper binding, but the content it the same. The only "alteration" is to maybe print the cover and inside cover in a foreign language. And no, the international sellers don't make a boatload off of U.S. students -- they may make money, but U.S. students get the benefit. The publisher, in all cases, gets exactly what it bargained for, and has no basis to complain if the price discrimination against U.S. students was so high that someone can make a profit by reselling into the U.S. a copy that the publisher made and sold in China or India.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2010 7:27:36 AM PST
international textbooks are exactly the same as the textbooks here. The only thing is they are not allowed to sell it here because the cost of printing is so cheap that we cannot afford to compete with the prices. The textbook will usually be a paperback as opposed to a hardcover but if you dont mind, I suggest buying the book. I bought my Biology book as such and took out the binding and punched holes so I could take it chapter by chapter. It was definitely worth my while.

Posted on Dec 30, 2010 11:05:56 AM PST
LRHolloway says:
I find it hilarious how Ozyrus is so ready to bash on students and call them snot nosed brats for complaining. The students who work hard trying to balance work and classes, and put themselves through college are honest and hardworking. We do this so we don't end up like the laborers who you claim are losing jobs.

If you starve a man, he will most certainly exploit every possibility to get food, including stealing. All of a student's worth is based on their grades. If you hold a student's grade ransom with an overly priced textbook the he/she can't afford, they will most certainly exploit every possibility; including buying a cheaper textbook at the expense of these laborers and publishers that try to take advantage of us in the first place. If these laborers have their degrees then they should know what the college experience is like and should stop perpetuating this cycle of picking on those who are just trying to get ahead. If they don't then they should try it, I'm willing to bet they would complain about the prices too!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2011 8:25:58 AM PST
This is NOT TRUE for all international editions. Many of these editions are in another language, have missing content, missing appendices, etc. I teach and recommend that students buy books online, but do not recommend taking a chance on IEs because of my own experience with these editions.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 2, 2011 9:15:34 PM PST
I bought my daughter an international edition of a book recently and it was identical to the other text books of the other students. When the bookstore was having buyback days, they saw her copy of it and they told her that the copy was illegal? I was not aware of this and don't really know if a law was broken. I do know that buying the book in this form saved me $130 though so the buyback was not a concern. Hope this helps!!

Posted on Jan 3, 2011 4:32:50 AM PST
I retired from my business 7 years ago. I was offered an opportunity to work part time for a nationally known textbook reseller and do textbook "buybacks" 2-4 times a year. Basically, I am sent to various college campuses (some large, some relatively small) and buyback used textbooks from students at the end or beginning of a semester.

The way it works for me as a buyer for the company that I work for is that any, if not most, of these campus bookstores have us purchase copies of used textbooks for them. Bookstore managers find out from professors for the courses to be taught for the new semester what textbook they intend to use. To slightly oversimplify the process, if the professor is using the same textbook for the coming semester, the bookstore manager determines from past experience, anticipated enrollment for the course, etc., approximately how many USED copies of that particular textbook (s)he thinks there will be a demand for from the students who will be taking the course.

This figure is given to me along with the price that the bookstore manager wants to pay for that particular textbook. As the buyer, I have no control over what price I pay for any given textbook that the bookstore wants me to buy copies of for them. I only decide if the copy a student offers to sell me is "buyable". There are certain things I must be careful of:
-I can't purchase any book that shows evidence of water damage. These books are subject to have pages stick together or even worse, they often begin to mildew at some point.

-I can't purchase a book that is in poor condition. I have to be careful of things such as spines that are separating from the book itself, books with missing pages, books that are missing things such as a separate supplement that came with the book originally, or perhaps a CD that should be with the book, etc. (Granted book condition is somewhat subjective. But I try to be fair [and my company insists that I be scrupulously honest and fair] with students keeping in mind that students want to sell their used textbooks, the bookstore wants to buy a certain number of textbooks, but also being mindful that the future student who wants to buy a used textbooks wants a usable copy and NOT something that is falling apart or missing critical elements.)

- I can't purchase certain textbooks (usually, though not always, these are textbook manuals) if too many of the chapter questions have been filled in by the student. (Another subjective judgement I am sometimes called on to make!) With some specific textbooks, I am instructed by my company or by the bookstore manager not to purchase ANY textbook that has ANY writing in it at all.

- And here is the BIGGIE--- I cannot purchase any textbook that is a "sample copy" or an instructor edition or an international edition or a looseleaf edition.
Sample copies usually (perhaps almost always?) have not had any any royalties payed to the author(s). And it is also my understanding that sample copies are not guaranteed to include everything that regular copies have in them.
Instructor copies are not purchased for various reasons, not the least of which, some instructors don't want you to have ready access to the answers to questions or problems in the books.
Looseleaf textbooks may have pages missing in them. As a buyer, I don't have any way to know what appendices or supplements should be included with a book, much less whether they are all there and too, I simply don't have the time to verify that all the pages are there so neither my company nor the bookstore wants these copies.
International editions are similar to looseleaf editions to me. my company, and the bookstore. Again, I can't know what MIGHT NOT be included in an international edition that is included in U.S. editions or what content may be different in an international edition. I know that many are questioning whether royalties have been paid on international editions. I don't know the answer for a fact, but I assume that they have been. But even if they are, I still can not purchase these editions for the reasons stated here.

If I were a student today, would I be willing to buy any of the above textbooks if I had the opportunity and if they were offered at a price I considered fair? Well, it depends. If the textbook is a sample copy, I would not purchase it under any condition and for many reasons. As for instructor copies, looseleaf editions, and international editions, again, it just depends. I think I would want to check with the professor first to see if he or she knows of some reason why it would be a bad idea for me to do so with regard to that specific textbook. I would also want to verify that NOTHING critical was missing from the content or supplementary material that should be with the book. Assuming these caveats are met, then I might consider purchasing one of these used textbooks if the price were very, very low. The reason for me would be that I might not be able to easily locate someone to sell it to after I was finished with the textbook.

This post is much longer than I had intended and, believe it or not, I have even left out some information that I had thought might be of casual interest to those interested in this thread. But I have tried to honestly address some of the concerns expressed here in the hope that it will serve to aid you, the college student (or the loving parent of one of those who represent our future!) Please understand that my knowledge is only that of someone who is almost at the bottom of the totem pole in the grand scheme of college textbook buybacks and I do not want to represent myself as having perfect insight to the process. But I have tried to explain something of the process from my perspective as a paid buyer.

Good luck to you all in the coming semester and in the coming year!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2011 12:09:52 PM PST
The bookstore's policy probably had more to do with it than the law. For over 150 years, the law in the U.S. has been that if you own a non-infringing copy, you are free to sell it without the copyright owner's permission. Some of the largest textbook publishers (Pearson Education, Cengage, John Wiley & Sons, and McGraw-Hill) have been trying to change that, by suing a number of individuals selling international edition textbooks under the theory that this longstanding "first sale doctrine" codified at 17 U.S.C. §§ 109(a) and 202 does not apply to copies they make abroad. They have lucked out, so far, in the Southern District of New York, but at least 4 of those cases are on appeal (one awaiting a decision, and another to be argued on January 12, 2011).

I am convinced that they are wrong, as it would be foolish for Congress to have abolished this limitation on their distribution right as a reward for sending U.S. jobs overseas. Plus, if their theory were correct, you couldn't even lend your telephone to a friend if the copyrighted software running on it had been installed in, say, China (like my iPhone). Hertz could not rent any cars containing microchips with computer code made in Japan, unless they first got permission from the owner of the copyright in the program.

So, let's hope the courts finally get it right. In the meantime, if you are anywhere in the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit (west coast), the messy interpretation there is that if it was made abroad, you need permission to sell it unless the copyright owner was the one who sold it here. In the Southern District of New York (New York City), you can't sell it without the copyright owner's permission if it was made abroad, even if the copyright owner sold it to you in New York. In the rest of the country, you are probably in good shape, at least until one of these publishers, bent on keeping the cost of textbooks artificially high in the U.S., decides to sue elsewhere too.

Posted on Jan 20, 2011 5:24:54 PM PST
Validus says:
Unless someone is going to pay for your education and your books, who gives a damn what they think of you? International Edition text books are completely legal and there is nothing wrong with buying them, as stated above. I buy used books all the time ever since I worked at my colleges book store. My first year I was paying around $600-$800 in text books... I think it is absurd to spend $350 on a math book. Speaking of Math, if you take a MATHLAB class you do not even need the book... All you need is the mathlab which can be purchased by its self, as all home work, tests and quizzes are done on-line. The book is never even used.

Never pay new!

Posted on Jan 21, 2011 4:29:03 PM PST
S. Bullen says:
I am thinking about buying an IE Biology by Neil Campbell 8th Ed, the only thing I want to know is, if I get it with MasteringBiology will the access code work.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 11:57:06 AM PST
Exactly. Why pay more if you have a choice? Seems like a pretty easy decision, to me. Unless buying international editions becomes illegal, this is going to continue to happen.

The publishers essentially brought this on themselves. There is something fundamentally wrong about having vastly different prices for the exact same products...and don't buy the hype about different costs of living, etc. For example, the UK isn't exactly a 3rd world country (and the British Pound isn't exactly a weak currency), and the same books are still cheaper there.

Also, why are publishers more cost conscious in other countries? Why do they think that American students care about having a friggin useless hard cover on a textbook - any more than students in any other country where soft covers (with the EXACT same content) are printed, bound and sold at a much lower cost?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 12:12:15 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2011 3:32:08 PM PST
I take exception to your comments because I am not a "young, college bound kid who knows everything there is to know about how the world works," etc, etc. And even if I was, I'd still take exception....

I've been through college, then worked professionally for a number of years, and now I'm back in college. This is definitely an important issue! To suggest that this textbook discussion is just a bunch of "whining" by "brats" is just as short sighted, dismissive, and arrogant as you accuse them of being.

It's ironic that you would talk about people not "knowing about how the world works," and then go and make statements like that.

Another ironic thing is that I personally studied macroeconomics in college, including A LOT about the economics and effects of antitrust activity - monopolization, collusion, price fixing, predatory pricing, etc, etc - and I can tell you that there IS plenty of validity for having this discussion.

It's not "whining." Get over yourself.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 1:17:43 PM PST
It's kinda funny, authors whine about only getting a dollar or so per book sold, so that is hardly the reason why IE's cost significantly less.

It is a bit like the drug market, they sell the exact same thing and quality overseas but for much cheaper. They rip off Americans because they can.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 1:20:37 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 23, 2011 1:35:57 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 1:27:12 PM PST
How is buying a cheaper edition from the same publisher theft? Get real. They are not black market copies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 1:32:57 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2011 1:36:38 PM PST
They lied to you, it is not illegal.

College bookstores are part of the problem. At the school I went to, they actually said that the student has a moral obligation to buy from them because they need to average $x a day to stay open. Can you believe that? They even tried to imply that buying used off Amazon or Ebay was stealing money from them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 3:25:09 PM PST
Bon Bon says:
My personal response to this post:

<<<<<<<<<
William Delfs stated:
" I had a professor in school who authored our textbook. He was upset when he caught me with an int'l edition of his book. He said he does not receive royalties on copies and editions printed and sold in other countries. That is one reason (aside from paperback and lighter paper) they cost less. "

Tell him to stick it up his ass!! (after you have passed the class and passed gas while talking to him) >>>>>

My oh my do I completely agree!!!! Colleges are sorely ripping you off anyways! Your showing smart strategy by buying at the lowest cost! It would be utterly stupid to buy at the high price to pad the professors pockets with more money.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 3:30:07 PM PST
Bon Bon says:
"""International editions are almost NEVER bought back when you are finished. """"

You can sell it to anyone using it the following semester, usually for the same price you bought it. That's been my experience. It's STUPID to sell books back to a campus bookstore (if you had implied that?). They pay you nothing! You can resell it to another student for fair market value.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2011 3:35:43 PM PST
Bon Bon says:
"should stop perpetuating this cycle of picking on those who are just trying to get ahead"

trying to get ahead? you mean picking on those that raise the skill level/human capital potential of one's country.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 27, 2011 10:52:51 AM PST
S. Raxter says:
I'm going to have to say that I don't really care if its a "black market that is using US students to make money". My main concern is SAVING money. I have saved hundreds on international versions that were identical. I haven't run into any of the super thin paper or anything. My have had color and quality paper. Only the cover was different. And I've always been able to sell them for what I paid for them on ebay.
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Posted on Sep 26, 2011 9:56:37 PM PDT
K. Wang says:
I've bought one and it was like 60% discount. Everything is the same...So as a student I don't really care..
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Textbook forum
Participants:  58
Total posts:  91
Initial post:  May 30, 2010
Latest post:  11 days ago

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