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Customer Discussions > Travel forum

slow drivers.... get out of the passing lane!!!!


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Showing 1-25 of 172 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jan 30, 2010 2:39:48 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 8, 2010 11:10:10 AM PST
I travel a lot for work, be it by car, train, and plane.
My BIGGEST annoyance on the road are the slow drivers who feel the need to be in the passing lane holding everyone else up. They cause traffic and accidents from others trying to get around them!

Plain and simple, if you AREN"T passing someone BE IN THE RIGHTMOST lane... or even if you are passing but doing it as such a slow degree that is takes 10 mins just to pass one car , if there is someone behind you who wants to go faster....MOVE OVER and let them go by....
Ok, editing again, because for some reason what I am trying to say I did not get across....

1. If people are in the left lane, and sitting or floating around the car to their right... that is not passing. They should move over and let others pass.
2. If someone is passing in the left lane and moves over once they clear the car to their right, all is good, if you don't and the road is open, expect to be passed on the right...
3. If you are going to get into a lane, and it is moving faster than you are, you need to increase your speed to match the speed that lane is going in, not force everyone else to slow down.
4. If you move into the passing lane, pass the cars on the right, and then move back over, none of us faster drivers would be complaining. However, many move into the passing lane, pass one car, but dont pass other others ahead and remain sitting in the left lane....

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2010 4:51:21 PM PST
EMAN NEP says:
Some of my biggest driving pet peeves are along these same lines, but slightly different.

Just because you're in the passing lane, doesn't give you the right to go 10mph over the speed limit!
The left-hand lane is not the Autobahn. If you crave your speed that much, become an expat and move to Germany.

For myself, I almost always drive in the left-hand lane because the right-hand lane usually has all the slow semi-trucks and dangerous merging traffic, but what drives me batty is when I'm going over the speed limit in the left-lane and the people behind me think I'm still going too slow and pass me on the right. I guess those people are eager to meet the Grim Reaper or something.

Bottom Line: X mph means X mph! If a cop wants to give you a little leeway, that's on him.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2010 7:28:51 PM PST
If you know the people are going faster than you, why not move over and let them pass? I am not saying you have to stay behind the trucks, just let those going faster go by, then you can go back into the left lane if you desire.

As for X mph means X mph, sure, I speed, and if I get a ticket, it is my own fault, HOWEVER, I have complete control of my car at 80-85 mph on an open highway. Do you feel that because it is a 65 mph road, then you should be in the left lane holding up everyone else who drives faster than you?

People pass you on the right because you obviously aren't giving way to people going faster, this causes accidents! Why not just move over and let them by? If more people would consider others there would be less accidents and less traffic! It is not your job to control the speed of others...

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2010 8:41:29 PM PST
EMAN NEP says:
You see, here's the problem. What's the point in staying in the right lane considering these two things . . .

1) Traffic is merging about every mile or so, meaning I'd probably have to shift over to the left lane anyway.
2) When I am in the left lane, I'm already going 9mph over the speed limit (and this is usually the speed I go when I'm in the right lane, as well).

It doesn't matter if you have complete control at 80-85mph. Heck, I've driven 120mph in Germany. The bottom line is, the speed limit is the speed limit. I don't get fussy when people go a mere 5-9 miles over, but when people are driving around like Speed Racer, they're asking for trouble.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2010 11:12:18 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 30, 2010 11:15:19 PM PST
Most major highways are 3 to 4 lanes, giving you plenty of room to move over if someone is merging onto the highway without having to go into the passing lane. Most people even in the rightmost lane are going 5-9 miles over the speed limit, so being there should not hold you up.
Do you insist on making everyone else slow down to your speed? More accidents and traffic are caused by a slow driver in the fast lane.
If people want to break the speed limit, it is our choice, and we will have to pay for the tickets if we receive one, so just move over and let us pass. Trying to keep us as slow as you will only infuriate drivers, increase road rage, cause traffic, and encourage accidents.
Also, fast drivers wouldnt have to pass on the right or weave in and out if the slower drivers would just stay right,...
If you are concerned by "speed racers" I would think it would be wisest to let em get past you, then you don't have to worry about them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 4:51:09 AM PST
EMAN NEP says:
My scenarios in previous posts were assuming a 2-lane highway. I do use the middle lane when there are 3 or more.

Still, I'm appalled at your poor attitude that everyone else needs to get out of your way simply because you think you need to drive fast. It's just as bad as people who think their social lives are so important that they have to text and drive.

You talk about accidents and people's lives being at risk because of slow drivers (and no, going 9mph in the left lane like I do is not "slow driving"), yet you fail to admit that your own lead foot is putting other driver's lives at risk as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 3:22:45 PM PST
N Rhodes says:
So what you are telling us is that the amount you choose to speed over the limit (9 mph over) is OK and what others might deem OK is not.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 6:09:35 PM PST
Actually it has been proven that confident drivers who drive at a speeds where they are in complete control of the car or LESS dangerous than nervous drivers and cause fewer accidents.

More accidents are caused by people trying to get around those who feel the need to keep people at their speed....
Be appalled all your want, if I am driving faster than you, move over and let me by, it called "courtesy"...

Posted on Jan 31, 2010 8:49:53 PM PST
"Actually it has been proven that confident drivers who drive at a speeds where they are in complete control of the car or LESS dangerous than nervous drivers and cause fewer accidents."
Although I am dying to know who 'proved' this and would love for you to cite a source, I am more curious about
how this (mis)quote is even relevant to what Eman stated. No one is comparing nervous drivers to drivers who aren't {nervous}. Interesting strawman....

What is more of an enigma however is
how you DEMAND that someone 'move over' then in the same breath ask for them to show YOU some courtesy....
Hypocrite much?

In case no one has told you, the world does not and is not going to revolve around you. If you do not like the way that someone is driving and they are in front of you, you have only a few choices.....
1. Get pissed
2. Weave in and out of traffic to go around the person (or a combo of 1 & 2)
3. DEAL with it like rational people

As for the road rage....you just have not practiced your bumper driving behind the right car.....NO ONE in the car in front of you gives a rat's as$ that you are mad at them.

Seems as if the world isn't running the way you want everyone else should change to accomidate you. WHY DON'T YOU move over or slow down if the person in front of you is not driving to your standards....Unlike Eman, I am not the least bit appalled, in fact I find it somewhat amusing that something so trivial (in the scheme of things) can get you so aroused.

Futhermore, I think that your anger is great for the economy....if you haven't done so already, it won't be long before you are in some doctor's office asking for (well, in your case, demanding) some 'happy pills'.
RAGE ON!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 11:05:07 PM PST
In case no one has told you, the world does not and is not going to revolve around you. If you do not like the way that someone is driving and they are in front of you, you have only a few choices.....
1. Get pissed
2. Weave in and out of traffic to go around the person (or a combo of 1 & 2)
3. DEAL with it like rational people

And in the same breath you would probably be bitching about traffic... Which is caused by this.
EMAN is mad that people pass him on the right... want to solve that, MOVE OVER, people won't be passing you on the right anymore. He is getting upset by something he is forcing people to do!
And any rational person would not "feel" that everyone else should be stuck behind them and dealing with their slower speed.

"Seems as if the world isn't running the way you want everyone else should change to accomidate you. WHY DON'T YOU move over or slow down if the person in front of you is not driving to your standards"

If the right lane was empty, I would be MORE than happy to move over and pass, however, the person in the left lane is usually just driving next to the car in the right lane. Therefore, the rest of us must sit and go at their speed, or pass on the shoulder.

Asking someone to move over if you are going faster is not expecting the world to revolve around you, ACTUALLY, sitting in the left lane and expecting everyone ELSE to drive your speed sound more like that.

As for citing the research, just go look it up online. Most accident are NOT caused by speedy drivers on the highway, rather it is caused by drivers trying to get "around" the slower drivers.
If people would simply stay right except to pass, this wouldn't be a problem, now would it? It is actually a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing.

If more people could drive realizing there are OTHERS around them, there wouldn't be so much traffic or accidents.

"how you DEMAND that someone 'move over' then in the same breath ask for them to show YOU some courtesy....
Hypocrite much?"

Exactly how is someone who is going faster than others, asking to get by not being considerate or being a hypocrite? If someone is going faster than me, I move over, I let them pass... If someone is going slower, I simply try to get around them, I don't run them off the road or try to get their license taken away. But I can't get around them if they are driving next to another car.. I guess in your eyes, it is only considerate if someone sits behind a slower moving car because they want to be in the left lane.
If you went to the grocery store and someone was in the 15 items are less with 100 items, do you find that acceptable? After all, this lane is suppossed to be faster checkout for fewer items. I guess you would find it inconsiderate to think that person should be in a regualr checkout lane!

Posted on Feb 1, 2010 8:00:16 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 1, 2010 10:06:01 AM PST
I call bullsht on you (again)!

You can play the semantics game all you want, but "MOVE OVER" is not the innocent request that you are now pretending that it is....There is NOTHING polite about it and it is hypocritical that you demand the very thing (courtesty) that you are unwilling to give.

The grocery store line is an extremely silly analogy and is about as comparable as contrasting speeding to housekeeping skills.

TRY TO STAY FOCUSED.....

You said {notice the quotes}: "More accidents are caused by people trying to get around those who feel the need to keep people at their speed...."

I say PROVE IT.....

I won't pretend to make silly connections where there are none at the grocery store.

You requested that I look up stuff on the internet. I did just that.

I went to the NHTSA (that is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) website.

Among offerings there, I did find a interesting report regarding speeding. Since you appear be unfamiliar with research, I have provided a link and will give you a brief overview of what it said. It stated in pertinent part:

"SPEEDING is one of the most prevalent factors contributing to traffic crashes. The economic cost to society of speeding-related crashes is estimated by NHTSA to be $40.4 billion per year. In 2008, SPEEDING was a contributing factor in 31 percent of all FATAL crashes, and 11,674 lives were lost in SPEEDING-related crashes.The total economic cost of crashes was estimated at $230.6 billion in 2000. Motor vehicle crashes cost society an estimated $7,300 per second. In 2000, the cost of SPEEDING-related crashes was estimated to be $40.4 billion - $76,865 per minute or $1,281 per second. SPEEDING reduces a driver's ability to steer safely around curves or objects in the roadway, extends the distance necessary to stop a vehicle, and increases the distance a vehicle travels while the driver reacts to a dangerous situation." {emphasis mine}

Even more interesting is that this is likely an UNDER estimation since the "NHTSA considers a crash to be 'speeding-related' if the driver was CHARGED with a speeding-related offense or if an officer indicated that racing, driving too fast for conditions, or exceeding the posted speed limit was a contributing factor in the crash."

SO there you have it, FACTS....

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Cats/listpublications.aspx?Id=A&ShowBy=DocType

Kindly post the ones that you sourced when you claimed to have them in your above exaggeration. {rethoricial}

YOU CAN'T (at least not by a reputable source) because they do NOT exist outside of your head.

Look, the bottom line is that you can speed all you want. EMAN correctly stated that YOU are putting other drivers at risk by YOUR actions. You seem (or so you say) more than willing to accept the consequences of those actions (even if you do blame the CAUSE of your actions on others), just quit lying to justify your false claims and then pretending that your 'MOVE OVER' statement is a polite and innocent request.

Posted on Feb 1, 2010 1:38:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 1, 2010 1:42:00 PM PST
Speed limits are there for a reason - mainly to protect people. If you speed you are a CRIMINAL, and are endangering other people. It's pure selfishness and arrogance to think the law doesn't apply to you.

That said, I agree that people driving slower than the speed limit should not be in the leftmost lane. It's common sense, and common courtesy.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 1:54:57 PM PST
I have to laugh at how you think "my anger" is funny. It seems you are the one who is truely getting angry here.

"I call bullsht on you (again)! "

Wow, you posted a whole link that proved your theory. Any theory can have some support to it, so claiming I am full of it is ignorant.
Before calling me a liar, do a little more research, besides reading one theory that I am sure you looked up to prove your point, but you didn't bother looking up other theories, otherwise you would have seen how much information about that is out there that supports slow drivers cause accidents..
Go ahead, look up on the internet "Slow drivers causing accidents" and see how many much comes up there. Not just in America, but other countries as well. It is funny how you are calling me a liar, when you are lying by claiming there is no data to support my statement. Next time, take a few mins and do a little research, then you won't look so foolish.

Plain and simply. "MOVE OVER" may not be innocent, but then again, the slow drivers SHOULDN'T be in the left lane in the FIRST PLACE. And that "MOVE OVER" is actually a driving law... people should yeild and move over for faster moving vehicles.
You don't want to compare it to the grocery store. It is not a silly analogy. The checkout lane is for speedier service, the left lane is for faster drivers... PERIOD.
If you aren't moving faster than the other cars, there is NO NEED for you to be in that lane!
Driving fast doesn't cause accidents; driving carelessly - at any speed - most certainly does.
Lets put this into reality...If you obey the limit, unfortunately, you will be moving too slowly and traffic will tend to bunch up behind you, especially in areas where passing is difficult or impossible. This encourages another bad behavior, road rage. Road rage is typically caused by slow moving traffic ahead trapping the angry driver behind. Put road rage and slow driving together and you have a recipe for disaster.
You say you dont care if you are pissing off other drivers.... way to prove consideration of others there, and YOU are adding to the rage, frustration, traffic, and accidents on the higway.

Is it really that difficult just to simply move over and let a speedier driver by?

http://www.sense.bc.ca/disc/disc-05.htm
Go check out that link....
Type in slow drivers and accidents, and see how many come up.
It shows that only 1 in 20 accidents are the result of speeding.
If you need me to copy and paste all the links on here, this will be VERY LONG.
Simply asking for slower drivers to move over and let faster driver by cannot be considered "inconsiderate", as much as you would like to try to make it out to be.
I can only assume that you NEVER walk past people who walk slower than you, or said excuse me so you could get around them. Because, according to you that would be extremely rude and you should stay behind them.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 1:58:38 PM PST
Eclectic-

Yes, speed limits are there for a reason, however, many will agree that they are too low especially for long, straight highways. If you have complete control of your car, and are not driving recklessly, you aren't endangering anyone.
I don't agree with people weaving in and out of lanes in high traffic... I just think that is you aren't passing the cars on your right, then you shouldn't be in the left lane, and if there is a car going faster, you should move over and let them by.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 5:21:53 PM PST
J. Merryman says:
if there is room on the right to pass, then you need to move over.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 2, 2010 7:40:24 AM PST
wow
So you cite a source OPINION from Canada and think that it is more relevant then stats from National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (based in America)?

Seriously?

The problem with your search (aside from the FACT that you had to cite a source from another country) is that 'slower driver' is not defined. No one could dispute that someone going 20mph on an expressway (in addition to being illegal) will contribute to accidents. If this is your point, I will agree with you, however without a definition of 'slow driving' the reader has no idea what that consitutes and is therefore is open to interpretation.

I would believe that reasonable people would NOT conclude that slow driving is equal to driving the speed limit but I am open to your research that states this is not true. This appears to be where our opinions part company and your 'research' does not support your contention.
IN the stats from the NHTSA you will not find the same problem. The terms are clearly defined and the research is based on a studies that are relevant to the COUNTRY of origin which in this case is AMERICA.
IT stated that SPEEDING was a contributing cause in 31% of FATAL accidents. How can you read this and conclude that this is not true?
*******

I am interested in the 'long list' of FACTS that you have that support the opposite point of view but would like for you to narrow it down using the following parameters:
A source from (or info pertaining to) the USA
Terms clearly defined
Statistics (facts) to back up the author's OPINION

I am not asking you for what I have not previously provided.
**********
You stated: "Driving fast doesn't cause accidents;......"
The NHTSA's report that concluded that excessive speed (which is clearly defined) DOES in FACT cause and contribute to accidents!

THIS IS A FACT, there is no disputing this. Sure there are other things that cause accidents, but to say that speeding does not cause accidents, defies logic and reason.

Without those two essentials, we must agree to disagree.

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 8:21:04 PM PST
duke_87 says:
Talk of speeding, ect. is a distraction......

The left lane is for passing- not travel. If you're not passing, get out of the passing lane. It's really that simple.
It doesn't matter if there's someone behind me or how fast I'm going, or anything else. If I'm not passing someone and there's room in the right lane, get out of the passing lane. This is driver's ed 101 people.

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 9:39:18 PM PST
The other idiotic thing on interstates is when people in the right lane move over into the left lane to allow others to get onto the interstate. Don't they realize that those people have a "YIELD" sign. Yield means "stop if necessary because those already on the interstate have the right-of-way". It's one thing to be courteous. It's another to slow down all the faster moving traffic and perhaps kill someone in the left lane. SNAP OUT OF IT!!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 3, 2010 3:52:25 PM PST
... or to the people who enter onto a highway doing 20 mph, and the other driver have to almost collide in order to avoid hitting them.....

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2010 2:13:26 PM PST
Roadmaster says:
There are a lot of mistaken ideas here. Let's have some fun, shall we?

Rules of the road are different depending (in the US) on what jurisdiction you are in. However, in general, "passing lane" and "fast lane" are colloquial terms, not legal designations. Such rules as "keep right except to pass" or "slower traffic keep right", tend to imply this behavior but that's all.

Speed maximums (limits) and minimums are the same in all lanes, unless otherwise posted.

The interconnectedness of the rules are for those that are adhering to them. The rules apply to at or below the posted speed limits. They are not to facilitate speeders into having a clear path or unobstructed access to any lane.

You are basically saying if everyone else obeyed the rules, then it would be easier for you not to do so yourself.

Definitions such as "slow moving vehicle" are in relation to the normal (legal) speed of traffic, not your over-the-limit fancy. At your hearing for going 85mph, try arguing that the guy who was going 65mph in the left lane of the 65 zone should have been ticketed but all you folks who got caught going way over should not.

There is no difference between a speed limit observer in the left lane or anyone driving over the limit but simply going slower than you want to go. You have no more right to free passage than you do to a convenient parking space (or any space at all) even with a handicapped sticker. The roads and rules were not designed, intended, and you have no claim to unencumbered access or passage in any lane, at any time, let alone when traveling at speeds other than those posted.

Eclectic Amazonian accurately said "Speed limits are there for a reason - mainly to protect people." True.

Rules are also there to limit behaviors in an attempt to ensure some level of predictability. That's how we go through green lights without too much thought. There is a right-of-way procedure, individual traffic lanes flow in only one direction, etc. When you speed, at whatever level you justify to yourself or the world, you make it more difficult for others to predict your behavior. ("Then stay out of my way" doesn't cut it as an answer.) If I am legally moving into the left lane to legally pass a slower vehicle, I should not have to be concerned with someone barreling up behind to me at X miles over the limit. (Yet I do clear the lane a good deal further into the rear because I know drivers like you are out there.)

If you don't like the rules, then lobby for change. If you are doing so and being civilly disobedient, then wonderful for you. Otherwise this is just selfishness. You're a scofflaw. You speed because you think the odds of getting caught are low. You know what's legal but since no one's looking you can "get away with it". I wonder how you handle your income taxes and other issues of personal responsibility and "self-policing."

This is not a victimless, invisible crime. You, like most people, believe you are an above average driver. Half of you must be wrong. (No, let's not discuss mean, median, and mode.) And "average" isn't much to strive for. Further, you could be Mr. Magoo, leaving destruction in your wake while you pass by unscathed. As time passes you'll come to see how luck you really were.

Some of the rules of the road conflict with each other. This is partially so that large numbers of traffic tickets can be written. It's also true that for safety, practicality, and other reasons, sometimes one rule has to take precedence over another. And in those circumstances, the presumption will always go to whichever party is/was obeying the law.

We select a lane position that is prudent and safe for conditions, not on what is convenient for Christine. Maybe you don't know why someone is in the left; maybe they saw something you haven't seen yet, or have a report you don't. You made some rather simplistic and sweeping assumptions and presume way too much.

Your peeve tends to be that there is room on the right for the "slower' (however defined) car in front of you to move over. If this is your scenario - only you and one other car on a 2+ lane road - and you are in a jurisdiction where passing on the right is not restricted, then -you- blew it at least a mile ago. You should have evaluated the situation 30-60 seconds in advance, -before- you reached the "offending" car, easily moved yourself to the right lane with plenty of time, passed, and then ...hmmm?

Why were you already in the left lane in the first place? You, yourself should be traveling in the right lane(s) and moving left, passing, then moving back right. You should not be planting yourself in the left just so you can go consistently fast and not have to bother with annoyances like changing lanes. That's just lazy. And now you're busting two rules, not just one.

No, it's probably a safety thing. We wouldn't that driver moving back to the right while we're passing on the right. Certainly not without signaling, or clearing the lane first. That could endanger you. And why, why wouldn't he feel he needs to signal his intentions? Hmmm.

How do you feel when there's a little more traffic than just you two? You commented "even if you are passing...". And "I don't agree with people weaving in and out of lanes in high traffic... I just think that is you aren't passing the cars on your right, then you shouldn't be in the left lane, and if there is a car going faster, you should move over and let them by."

Now you've changed the game by conflating two scenarios. You started with a car in the left when the right is clear, which I dispatched by pointing out you missed your cue 30 seconds before. And now the car in the left -is- overtaking a car on the right, just not fast enough for you. Whether the guy on the left is over the limit, or even somewhat under (he's allowed), he's passing an even slower car. You want to be first in line and you're not. Deal with it.

Depending on the conditions on the right, a string of slower vehicles, an army convoy, or whatever, you just want him it pull into some space and let you by. He should change lanes, which involves some risk, just for you. Twaddle. See, again, in all these situations, the passer is obeying the law. He doesn't have to inconvenience himself for you

and If there's lots of cars in the left, then traffic doesn't permit your speed in the first place.

What about one lane in each direction with intermittent dotted passing lanes but you can't get by due to oncoming traffic. Do I have pull off the road for you?

What about traffic jams/tie ups? Those people don't belong in the left lane either, do they? They're not passing anyone. They're stopped dead. Never should have been in the left lane, right? Ever drive with 50 miles of NY, Chicago, Atlanta, etc., during commutation hours?

What other rules do you break because you think you are of above average skill or it's just convenient? Are you braking at or near the speed limit when you come up behind a "slower" car? Brakes should nearly never be necessary at highway speeds (avoidance issues notwithstanding). You got too close. Again, you didn't read the conditions and anticipate. Remember that pesky car lengths rule? In this case, the traffic flow doesn't even permit your excessive speed. Someone mentioned weaving - generally not permitted and is a good indication that the traffic flow does not warrant your excessive speed.

Do you always hit all the points while making a right on red? Do you know them all? And what if I'm in front of you and choose not to turn right on red, does that make you impatient?

it seems to me you're glossing over a lot of rules, not just 'speeding", in order to make an argument for you doing whatever you want.

Now some random comments:

"Plain and simple, if you AREN"T passing someone BE IN THE RIGHTMOST lane... or even if you are passing , if there is someone behind you who wants to go faster....MOVE OVER and let them go by...."

Actually, no, not the rightmost lane. And again, no. If I'm passing in a legal manner, you need to remember you share the road.

"If you know the people are going faster than you, why not move over and let them pass?"

Again I do not have to do anything to facilitate your breaking the law.

"As for X mph means X mph, sure, I speed, and if I get a ticket, it is my own fault, HOWEVER, I have complete control of my car at 80-85 mph on an open highway. Do you feel that because it is a 65 mph road, then you should be in the left lane holding up everyone else who drives faster than you?"

Aside from whether you're "above average", if the highway's "open" then there's no issue. If there's traffic that's impeding your desired speed, it's not open and conditions do not warrant your speed. Further, I feel I should be (legally) in the left lane (any lane) when my judgment dictates it is the most prudent. Wanna compare judgments? There are standard rules to eliminate this kind of guesswork.

"It is not your job to control the speed of others..." and "Do you insist on making everyone else slow down to your speed?"

Once again, you do not know why someone is in the left, and, again, neither is it my obligation to make it easier for you to -not- control your own speed. You keep saying this like it's going to change something. I don't have to do anything to make it easier for you to break the law. And I don't insist on anyone doing anything at all, not even obeying the rules. I follow the rules because of the social contract I am voluntarily a part of, the same reason I don't take a thousand other liberties I could. And I believe my predictable behavior is good for my long term survival on the road, certainly when surrounded by a large and unpredictable number of self-promoters like you.

"Actually it has been proven that confident drivers who drive at a speeds where they are in complete control of the car or LESS dangerous than nervous drivers and cause fewer accidents."

That "above average" thing again. Confidence is not skill.

"More accidents are caused by people trying to get around those who feel the need to keep people at their speed."...

Driving at the speed limit does not equate to "feeling the need to keep people at their speed." They are observing the law.

"Be appalled all your want, if I am driving faster than you, move over and let me by, it called "courtesy"".

Not in the jurisdictions I drive in.

"And in the same breath you would probably be bitching about traffic... Which is caused by this. EMAN is mad that people pass him on the right... which IN SOME PLACES IS LEGAL."

And where it is not legal, you are dutifully waiting for the car in front to move right, aren't you? Or are we adding another rule you think it's OK to break because it's inconveniencing you?

"if the right lane was empty, I would be MORE than happy to move over and pass"

This is not what you said first.

"however, the person in the left lane is usually just driving next to the car in the right lane."

Yes, that's called overtaking and they are allowed to do it at the speed limit (in fact below.)

"Therefore, the rest of us must sit and go at their speed, or pass on the shoulder."

On the -shoulder--? Wow. Add yet another broken rule.

"ACTUALLY, sitting in the left lane and expecting everyone ELSE to drive your speed sound more like that."

It's not my speed.

"It is actually a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing."

Partially true. Generally, you can't block traffic - - hat is moving within the speed limit-- by driving in the left lane. It's rarely enforced. There is no requirement to move over for speeders. And speeding is heavily enforced. I wonder why.

OK, I'm getting tired of this.

"More accidents are caused by people trying to get around those who feel the need to keep people at their speed...."

Once again ascribing one motive with a broad brush to everyone encroaching on your turf.

"Plain and simply. "MOVE OVER" may not be innocent, but then again, the slow drivers SHOULDN'T be in the left lane in the FIRST PLACE"

You continually change the definition of "slow" just so you can make an argument to get them out of your way.

"And that "MOVE OVER" is actually a driving law.."

Not everywhere.

"The checkout lane is for speedier service, the left lane is for faster drivers... PERIOD."

The checkout lane you imply is for those with less than x items. NOT for speedier service. (This is proven daily, nationwide.) As to the second part, no it is not.

"if you aren't moving faster than the other cars, there is NO NEED for you to be in that lane!"

I can think of a host of reasons.

"Lets put this into reality...If you obey the limit, unfortunately, you will be moving too slowly and traffic will tend to bunch up behind you, especially in areas where passing is difficult or impossible. This encourages another bad behavior, road rage. Road rage is typically caused by slow moving traffic ahead trapping the angry driver behind. Put road rage and slow driving together and you have a recipe for disaster.
You say you dont care if you are pissing off other drivers.... way to prove consideration of others there, and YOU are adding to the rage, frustration, traffic, and accidents on the higway."

Partially true, but if traffic is "bunching" then there must be traffic in the right lane(s) and those passing on the left, within the limit, are well within their rights and you just gotta wait. If not, then the right is clear and we go back to answer one; you blew it 30 seconds ago.

"Yes, speed limits are there for a reason, however, many will agree that they are too low especially for long, straight highways. If you have complete control of your car, and are not driving recklessly, you aren't endangering anyone"

This is wrong on so many levels, I can't be bothered. Tell it to the judge and take it to your congressman.

Lastly, cause I have a life, Stephen G. Knopp says: The other idiotic thing on interstates is when people in the right lane move over into the left lane to allow others to get onto the interstate. Don't they realize that those people have a "YIELD" sign"

Yield sign - sometimes yes, sometimes no, though those on the freeway do have the right of way. In general though, moving left is called separating hazards. It can be a prudent move. Interesting how you expect predictability and rule following by those merging on (and everyone else), but me, taking advantage of a free space in traffic (perfectly legally) to put distance between me and a merger, that's a problem.

Any melonhead can speed. It takes no brains or skill at all. Just press the gas pedal. Most people find it easy to rationalize why only they don't have to follow a particular driving rule or rules but everyone else does. It's usually because they don't have the training, discipline and patience to drive correctly. Probably a moral or ethical issue as well.

I came upon this topic by accident. I've given it far too much time. I'm going out driving.

Posted on Feb 5, 2010 3:14:52 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2010 3:58:47 PM PST
WOW! What a verbose diatribe. Just to set the record straight, you are wrong when you say "moving left is called separating hazards. It can be a prudent move." It is altogether IMPRUDENT when you move into another persons path or right of way (particularly at a high rate of speed) because it creates a hazardous situation. That's why the YIELD signs are there. Moreover, there are laws against "impeding the flow of traffic". This is why you occasionally see signs such as "Trucks Use Right Lane Only". I didn't say anything about speeding in my previous comment.

However, regarding speeding -- that is to say exceeding the posted speed limit -- almost everyone does it. As a matter of fact, if you drive the posted limit on the interstate, almost every car on the road will pass you. This is precisely why police almost always ignore interstate speeding unless it's done at a level that is clearly dangerous. Every cop I've ever talked with has said there's always that "appropriate allowance" during ideal conditions (moderate traffic, clear weather and vision, etc.). They understand that everyone speeds and that most people -- there are exceptions -- stay with the flow of traffic, even though the flow is typically over the posted limit. I realize that you may think you are the perfect driver. I'm sure you exercise every necessary consideration. But PLEASE do not try to tell me that you don't speed. We all know better.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2010 4:23:17 PM PST
Eliot Porter says:
What a bunch of fools. You tailgate me AT ANY SPEED, it's called assault (as in "assault and battery" ). You take a big risk that the person you feel ( your weird feelings here ) has got to get out of your way may be armed and protect themself. Many have Permits to Carry; do you know who ? There are too many of you self-inflated, over indulged fools, that feel (again) the right to perform danger on another. Unfortunately, you are usually the geeks, wimps, insecure, and flabbies that take your emotions out on the road.
Stand back boy and think simple math: 20 MPH faster in 100 miles for you to spend more time sucking at your donut or super latte, or gaming ! How many minutes are you really saving ? Want help ?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2010 4:27:36 PM PST
Yes! Yes! I DO need help! Please stop me before I speed again!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2010 8:14:28 AM PST
I doubt I have to time to address all the comments in your post, but I shall try.

First off, this should cover about half of them....
You spoke about passing on the right ahead of time to pass the slow person in the left lane. First off, if someone is moving slow in the left lane and the right lane is completely open, there is no problem... One continues to drive in the right lane.
However, this is NOT the case I am talking about. I am talking about the slow driver who IS NOT passing the 18 wheeler next to them or driving next to the cars on the right, without passing. They have officially created traffic, where as all the drivers behind them now how to sit at the cars speed that are blocking all the lanes.

You claim that I feel that everyone ESLE should obey rules, but I don't. Could you pick a more exaggerative and false statement to make? Was I saying, EVERYONE should be in the right lane, and only I am allowed to be speeding in the left? Give me a break...nothing I said could come even close to being misconstrued as that. You are simply trying to make it appear that way.

On a highway, if there are people going faster than you, moving over and letting them by is the smartest thing. This decreases traffic, road rage, and accidents. Simplky staying in the left lane and blocking them in claiming "Speeding is illegal" is NOT going to help the traffic situation.

If you are so prudent that everyone obey the speed laws, go apply to be a police officer and ticket away. I bet if you pull everyone over who is above the speed limit, NOONE will be able to drive past you without getting pulled over, and you would spend every moment of the day writing tickets and the other police officers will think you are crazy.

My MAIN POINT:

Why is it so difficult to simply move over and let a faster moving car pass.... honestly? Are you upset because you think "they" are getting away with breaking a law? Wouldn't it make life easier just to move over, let em pass, then continue on your merry way? Wouldn't that make the roads less congested and decrease stressed out drivers? Instead, you choose to hold them up to prove a point? Why? Do you think this will eliminate all the speeding problems? Because YOU aren't breaking a speed law, neither should they?
If everyone obeyed the speed laws, do you know how much traffic there would be on the highways? It would be crazy!
Now, I am not saying everyone should be driving at crazy speeds, I am just saying let's be realistic here..

The roads are OVER POPULATED with cars, you can state all the laws you wants, but the basic truth is this... someone is going fast, move over, let them pass.... problem solved... they aren't stressed, you aren't stressed.. the moment is done... why insist on keeping the behind you and turning it into a stressful situation? Let the police deal with their moving violation.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2010 8:59:01 AM PST
Roadmaster says:
"It is altogether IMPRUDENT when you move into another persons path or right of way (particularly at a high rate of speed) abecause it creates a hazardous situation"
This is true, but it's not what I said. The problem with these discussions is we don't describe precise situations and we change them as we go, adding new factors to make our point stronger than the other guy's. I said it -can- be a prudent move, if I clear the left lane, signal before moving, and don't encroach on someone immediately behind me in the left lane. However if I move left into a clear lane and you at your excessive speed come upon me say 10 or so seconds later, well then that's just inconvenience talking because you didn't read the conditions in front of you and slow down accordingly.
It keeps coming back to the same thing. You don't like someone else's legal use of the road when it gets in your way. Your right to lane position may be trumped by my right to the same position. Sometimes it depends on who clears, signals, and gets there first. Then the other party has to adjust.
The reason for moving left is to avoid a squeeze play with you passing on the left, the merger coming in early on the right and me in the middle with no way out. Whether there's a yield sign or not, whether the merger obeys it, whether he's up to speed or not, he may still begin taking the right lane encroaching on me. Depending on the timing I may slow down and stay in that lane. It may be better if I move left. It depends and you'll just have to be patient if you're behind me.
Supposing I wait in the right and he literally encroaches on me - your scenario of the 20mph merger. Do I sit dutifully in the right lane and jam on the binders hoping I don't rear end him? Of course not. The best prevention is avoidance. Move left early and the squeeze cannot occur. As I have to adjust my position and speed with regards to continually changing conditions, in this case, the merger, you have to do the same.
After all, no one said I was going to move left and stay there. I am passing the car on the right. When I'm done, I will move back, as should you after you pass me.
"Moreover, there are laws against "impeding the flow of traffic".
Yes there are, and they are all in relation to the normal (legal) speed of traffic, not to the over-speed the traffic is moving.
However regarding speeding -- that is to say exceeding the posted speed limit -- almost everyone does it. This is precisely why police almost always ignore interstate speeding unless it's done at a level that is clearly dangerous. Every cop I've ever talked with has said there's always that "appropriate allowance" during ideal conditions (moderate traffic, clear weather and vision, etc.). They understand that everyone speeds and that most people -- there are exceptions -- stay with the flow of traffic, even thought it's over the posted limit. I realize that you are perfect but PLEASE do not try to tell me that you don't speed.

Speeding. Yes almost everyone does it. A great argument from popularity. I can't speak to enformcement. I don't pick which rule sto observe based o nmy calculation of being abile to get away with it or for fear of getting caught

If I have drifted past the posted limit by a mile or a few, then yes I am speeding and I slow down. I also exceed the limit during an approrpariate evasive manouver - ie like a squeeze play. Otherwise, no I don't speed.

WOW! is right. I did say it was just a bit of fun, though thanks for reading.
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