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Customer Discussions > Vegan forum

how to persuade?


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Showing 1-25 of 39 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Mar 13, 2010 8:36:40 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:06:18 PM PST]

Posted on Mar 17, 2010 5:29:13 PM PDT
denilea says:
When I first became a vegetarian, I swore to remember my own reasons for it, and that I spent the most of my life as an omnivore, even during repeated attempts to change. I vowed to relearn cooking, and I did. I found I got the best response by just being sensitive to the fact we are ruled by livestock corporations, the farm industry, and the FDA. I made sure the lunches I brought to work looked appetizing, and always had enough to share. I've had many people proudly tell me they've used my recipes, and didn't have any meat that day. I may not have completely converted anyone, but you can't shove the truth in someones face without them wanting to shove you away.
I recommend the book "The Perfectly Contented Meateaters Guide to Vegetarianism". It's very informative on many levels, and easy and fun to read. Does not get preachy.

Jonathon Safran Foer: It's easy to wake a sleeping person, but nearly impossible to wake someone pretending to be asleep.

BTW: Micheal Vicks omnivore opposition was very instrumental in my going vegan.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 17, 2010 7:53:15 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:06:42 PM PST]

Posted on Mar 18, 2010 11:44:41 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:06:52 PM PST]

Posted on Mar 20, 2010 1:13:37 PM PDT
denilea says:
You know, the longer I'm vegan the more sympathic to individuals. I thought I'd feel completely the opposite, but when you think of all the individuals you've known in life, for me, not that many had bad intent. It's the sum of those indivuals that f** things up, without them even being aware! That's why I get so passionate when people ask me what one person giving up meat can do. Look what all those "one persons" who eat meat do!
My favorite discussion comes from why vegans are against wool, because it really illustrates how cumulative animal exploitation has become. Everyone thinks of the quaint farmer, and the sheep that has so much wool to shear in the summertime. They don't understand how that nice relationship of making warm, waterproof sweaters, that could last the family a lifetime has progressed into barbarism. Now sheep have been bred to produce more wool than they can bear, have the flesh of their genital area cut to inhibit flies yet get infected, are contained, sheared so fast they cut hunks of skin off, and slaughted after they're "used up". Nothing nice about it.
But the reality is people are duped. I'm not exactly defending them, but I am sensitive to the fact that when I shove info in their faces they just rebel and become more opposed to my views. Much like training a puppy!
That's what I don't like about PETA. When I see posters showing mothers slaughtering a rabbit to get kids attention, or showing up in front of elementary schools as abused elephants to protest circuses, I get angry. You don't exploit human children either. When you grow thinking of animal flesh as food, food your mother fed you with love before you even walk, that's a hard idea to overcome. It's an ingrained belief, and when you go veg- your world turns around. You want everyone to open their eyes, but it's not easy to defeat illusions that big.
I am in the process of writing campaigns, letting stores, restaurants,etc. know how I feel about their choices. After all, you don't have to be vegan to appreciate low fat, healthy options, and vegans are consumers too. When companies realize other products are chosen because they don't contain animal ing. they may wake up. Aldis grocery stores gets a thumbs up from me for average store. They have cheap wheat bread that's vegan- not easy to find, and many products that competitors include things like geletin that Aldis brand does not.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 20, 2010 7:37:26 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:07:10 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 21, 2010 8:11:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 21, 2010 8:12:03 AM PDT
Kirk Tuttle says:
First off you make the mistake of thinking you opinion is more inportant than your friends. I eat meat and have many friends that are Vegetarian. I respect thier choices and do not try to change them.

Do we joke around? yes. Sometimes they ask me to eat a salad. I say only if they will have a burger with me and we all laugh. However we never try to change the other. Thats because we are FRIENDS.

As for comparing Michael Vick to someone who eats meat, well lets just say thanks for the laugh.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2010 5:12:20 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:07:24 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2010 7:20:29 PM PDT
denilea says:
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Posted on Mar 23, 2010 12:20:58 AM PDT
laguna_greg says:
Hi Yousseff,

I appreciate your interest in finding ways to persuade others to your philosophy . As a non-believer, let me offer a few suggestions.

1- Talk about what veganism has done for you physically. Has it improved your health and, if yes, how? Try to avoid sounding like a pamphlet touting the health benefits for others, because it's too easy to discount. Your own experience will be the most convincing. Also, you should look the part. If you are noticeably underweight or anemic as some vegans are, be prepared to explain why that is. If you have health problems that veganism has not helped you with, be prepared to discuss them in a straightforward and constructive manner. After all, no diet is a panacea for the human condition. Reasonable people can accept that as part of a discussion. And that level of candor makes you more credible as a witness.

2- Avoid discussing the moral issues you have found there for yourself. If your audience doesn't already accept these arguments, they probably are not going to buy it no matter what you say. And it's very easy to alienate your listeners by sounding shrill or morally superior. If veganism has truly brought you some peace of mind, then people will notice it without you saying anything. If not, then you are just going to put people off by bringing it up. So don't go there.

3- Avoid bringing religion into the discussion, if that is the basis for your efforts to persuade other to embrace veganism. I can't think of a bigger turn-off for non-believers than that.

4- Be prepared to discuss the science behind your assertions, even the technical aspects. There is nothing more convincing than scientific evidence. And I don't mean the latest self-help vegan philosophy book available on this site. The ones I have read are so full of pseudo-science and misinformation that they are easily laughed off. Rather, go get a lower division college textbook on biochemistry and human nutrition, if you haven't already done so. Study it enough so that you understand its basic concepts and the practical application of them. For one example from many, can you explain the role of vitamin C in the formation of cell membranes and bone tissue? Or the digestion and assimilation of calcium in the gut, a very complex process? Or how vitamin E prevents oxygen from bonding with unsaturated fatty acids in the blood? People are shamefully ignorant of how the body actually works. I can promise you that you will be able to do some good for people if you actually understand these things and can explain them, as well as how a vegan diet supports these processes.

Just a few ideas. Cheers!

Laguna

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 23, 2010 6:17:20 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:07:48 PM PST]

Posted on Mar 24, 2010 4:51:40 AM PDT
Sue says:
"in canadian jurisprudence that make pummelling a fellow citizen a criminal offence, even if they eat meat."
You're wacko!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 24, 2010 2:34:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 24, 2010 2:40:04 PM PDT
laguna_greg says:
Hi Youssef,

...and I appreciate both your response and your sincerity. A couple of comments:

1- I agree. If you talk about your experience in a meaningful way, it will be that much more persuasive.

2- Please reconsider this point carefully. I just don't think you're going to win any converts if you hammer ethics home in a way that appeals to you but not them. Is there some other ethical argument that would appeal to your listeners? For example, I'm a meat eater. And I don't think there is anything intrinsically evil about eating meat in absolute philosophical terms. So anytime anyone brings this up, I just turn off the hearing aid.

But one thing that has persuaded me that factory farming is a curse and a menace is the extremely poor food it produces and its impact it has on the environment. If anyone ever tasted a piece of meat or chicken, or drunk milk or eaten cheese or a piece of fruit grown on a real farm, they'd never go back to the factory way of eating. Not to mention that such food is chock full of nutrients that can't be got from the factory farm products. That, more than anything, convinced me to stop buying factory-produced food.

I realize this is probably not a pressing issue for you personally. But it would be for me. Pehaps your listeners have other reasons personal to them that would persuade. Can you find out how to talk to that audience?

4- DON'T BE SILLY - OF COURSE YOU CAN!!! You are certainly smart and educated enough to understand this information. If you really don't want to look at technical works per se, you might look at any books by Adelle Davis. Though written in the '50s, they are the only good non-technical books I've ever found that actually talk about the biochemistry of digestion and food from start to finish. The works are interesting and accessible, and they can be got here on Amazon even though they are out of print. I don't think you'll find people yawning when you start talking about it. I know I don't!

Best of luck to you, and let us know how it goes!

Laguna

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 24, 2010 4:31:24 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jul 30, 2013 10:36:58 AM PDT]

Posted on Mar 24, 2010 6:03:30 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:08:09 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 25, 2010 12:29:24 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 25, 2010 12:42:33 AM PDT
laguna_greg says:
Mon tres cher ami,

Let's not go there. We do not agree on the terms of the proposition and, since that is the case, a civil agreement cannot be reached. What I mean to say is that as you start talking philosophy, you start sounding like the Pope. Have you ever noticed how debates with the Pope usually go? You disagree about something doctrinal, he is not interested in discussing it because you've commited heresy in his eyes which is not open to debate and, before you know it, you've been tied to a burning stake. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And as for French poets et leurs ennuis, well, it may be a little shallow and angoissee, but it's very fffrreeeeeennnncchhhh!!!

And don't tell me that "calme dans le demi-jour..." isn't a profound theme. It certainly is more profound than Byron, a silly, confused man who happend to have a gift for rhythm and prosody but was more often grandiose rather than grand. And I'm sorry, but "votre ame est une paysage choisi..." is just as sublime as Wordsworth's "...very heaven", and equally nice sounding don't you think?

Cheers!

Laguna

Posted on Mar 26, 2010 10:18:41 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:08:31 PM PST]

Posted on Apr 5, 2010 8:11:49 PM PDT
Firefly says:
Think about any group you don't agree with that goes around proselytizing. Now think about what effect their proselytizing has on you. Does it draw you to them and their ideals? Probably not. In fact, it probably repels you. That's not the result they are hoping for, yet in their zeal they continue to push and push, turning off the very people they hope to convert. If they would simply show by example and let people come to them and ask questions when THEY felt comfortable, they'd probably have more success.

Posted on Apr 6, 2010 6:42:00 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 6, 2010 6:45:03 AM PDT
Hot Hands says:
I have been an on again off again vegetarian....I will say that the meat we eat now is NOT factory farmed, we buy from a local farmer, the animals see sun, eat grass, feel fresh air.....

I understand your points, but you can only say your piece, people have free will, and will do what they choose. I actually don't feel better as a vegetarian....I have less energy, and put on weight, a little protein goes a long way for me....but I do feel unethical eating meat, and factory farming makes me sick....

Also the entire food business is pretty messed up....GM crops, additives, etc.....so a push for whole foods might be a nice segway...or not. It's hard to imagine, or accept, but there are plenty of people who DO NOT CARE...they don't....and lets not forget those who don't want to know....(you cannot awaken someone who is pretending to be sleeping....LOVE THAT).

The original post on here sounds like a born again Christian, looking to convert followers....which is a total turn off, I loved the point that suggested bringing extra food, sharing recipes, etc.....subtle, welcoming and NOT pushy.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 8, 2010 9:07:10 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:08:47 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 10, 2011 4:35:47 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 10, 2011 4:36:34 AM PST
L. Williams says:
To Delinea... Personally I don't care what other people's diets are. Being vegan doesn't offend me. But the judgemental attitude toward the rest of us? The comments about teaching people your ways being like "training a puppy?" That I could do without. Wow.

Posted on Jan 10, 2011 7:33:30 AM PST
The Pig That Wants to Be Eaten

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 10, 2011 7:46:30 AM PST
Yeah.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 10, 2011 3:49:26 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 19, 2011 3:09:02 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 14, 2011 3:31:12 PM PST
denilea says:
From my entire post all you get out of it was the light hearted comment of "much like training a puppy!" Wow, that taken out of context along with Sue's inability to acknowledge a joke reminds me of how defensive people can be.
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Discussion in:  Vegan forum
Participants:  12
Total posts:  39
Initial post:  Mar 13, 2010
Latest post:  May 28, 2011

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