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The story in games these days are lacking....


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 5:30:27 AM PST
Yeah, the main character looks similar and is introduced to magic when he's young. That's pretty much the only similarity. And neither of those concepts are unique.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2012 5:01:17 AM PST
"There's no way that a city of Rapture's size would be able to sustain itself with just the elite."

Yep. This is mentioned by Fontaine near the end of the game. He says something about the people there forgetting that someone has to clean the toilets. While it makes sense, it's actually not really a valid argument re: Objectivism.

Posted on Nov 8, 2012 4:33:00 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 8, 2012 4:55:50 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 11:26:19 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 7, 2012 11:27:10 PM PST
Nicos says:
Exactly! JKKK Rowling is a creatively bankrupt racist who profits off of the ignorance of children. The more people who learn the truth, the better!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 1:03:13 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 7, 2012 1:05:02 PM PST
I think its cause when you were younger and had less on your plate, you could really dig into a story cause, hey, what else is there to do?
At least that's my take. When I play games now, if an NPC doesnt give me direct information within the 1st 10 seconds: esc, check mini map, look for flashy things to lead me on...(sigh) responsibilities makes you casual. sad, but true.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 12:55:56 PM PST
White kid with shaggy brown hair and prominent glasses? No one's ever made a character like that before The Books of Magic!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2012 12:49:31 PM PST
Have you looked inside a Books of Magic comic? Even the design of the main character, down to the details, Harry Potter ripped it off without shame.

The author of Books of Magic has taken the high road and not made these accusations, they are from fans of course.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 4:46:36 PM PST
I didn't one bit. I agree that those things just piss me off.

Posted on Nov 6, 2012 4:37:34 PM PST
"It's a completely wrong and idiotic straw man argument, and it pisses me off to this day."

I agree, and hope you didn't think that's what I meant. I have a lot of love for classics, but I love most everything. I'm an absolute hedonist when it comes to art, a real media whore. I only mean that video games will never replace my books and movies as a medium. Uber-media or not, I'll always have time for a good book.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:44:45 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 3:57:17 PM PST
Basically. He himself said that Ryan is a pseudo-Objectivist, so I'm glad he knew that. He's more or less influenced by parts of her, but in the end, her concepts just basically were a jumping off point. Levine himself said it's not suppose to be a critique of Objectivism at all.

Well, I think one thing about Galt's Gulch is the notion that it could not at all exist as intended. A city like Rapture would simply not exist with just the elite of society. There's no way that a city of Rapture's size would be able to sustain itself with just the elite.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:43:10 PM PST
I can see the argument that BioShock is a rather scathing indictment of Objectivism, but the thing is that Andrew Ryan isn't really an Objectivist. Or more accurately: Rapture is not the type of place that Galt's Gulch is. The Gulch, for example, had very little government. Ryan, on the other hand, imposed sanctions on the types of things that people could read. His society was also brought down by a conman, which may indicate that human nature pretty much means the notion of a society like Galt's Gulch is impossible. Perhaps not coincidentally, BioShock 2 pretty much says the same thing about a perfectly communist society.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:42:08 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 3:42:29 PM PST
I'm curious to see all the books and other influences Infinite will carry. So far, the only book is The Devil in the White City. Well, that and Meet me in St. Louis =). Personally, the latter influence is way more exciting. I also do know that he talked to both members of the Tea Party and the Occupy movement personally. He also said he did a lot of historical research.

I heard that there will be a science bent. Ken said that he hasn't picked up a science book since high school, so he brought in a bunch of consultants from MIT to help him. Given MIT's reputation as being one of the best schools for science, I'm curious to see what they will bring.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:36:32 PM PST
Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXiU6kiq_Ms

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:35:23 PM PST
Only that Levine's fiction uses a lot of references to politically-charged historical figures.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:35:10 PM PST
DVvM says:
The first rule of tautology club is the rule of tautology club that comes first.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:34:19 PM PST
That's exactly what I just said.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:33:34 PM PST
I don't see the connection...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:33:31 PM PST
DVvM says:
However it is necessarily the case that it is either Bioshock or not Bioshock.

It may not be Bioshock and not Bioshock.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:32:55 PM PST
Right. A can be "more things than just A." But it cannot simultaneously be A and not A. BioShock cannot simultaneously be itself and not BioShock.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:31:39 PM PST
Fun fact: Rapture was founded on Guy Fawkes' Day.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:30:38 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 3:32:42 PM PST
That's very true. Ayn Rand was a big influence on BioShock's story, although Ken Levine has made it clear that her writings were an influence only (in other words, Andrew Ryan shares similarities, and he's made it clear he's actually not an Objectivist). There are a lot of other influences, including Miller's Crossing, The Manchurian Candidate, George Orwell (Animal Farm has a big influence on all of his works), and many more.

One thing that is not true about the game is the fact it's not anti-objectivist. Ken Levine has said in interviews that the reason why he used his work as inspiration is because Ayn Rand has influenced his own world view more than any body else, of all things.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:29:04 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 6, 2012 3:29:49 PM PST
DVvM says:
A is A doesn't necessarily imply that A is not also B.

This sandwich is simultaneously a sandwich and tasty. Socrates was Socrates, a man, a mortal, and a philosopher (among other things.)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:27:45 PM PST
The Monomyth actually had an influence on Journey's overall structure.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:27:38 PM PST
You said that BioShock is BioShock, and that's all it will ever be. I agree. BioShock can be nothing other than BioShock. It is what it is. In other words, A is A.

Mostly, I was just making a reference to the fact that BioShock makes a lot of references to the works of Ayn Rand.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2012 3:27:09 PM PST
DVvM says:
Well, I never said that all books are born out of pure and honest desire to share stories, certainly some are commercial products.

But I would venture that the number of books written for the joy of putting words on the page or of telling a story vastly outstrips the number of games that are made for the sheer joy of making the game. Though the handful of games that do fall into that latter category (e.g. Cave Story) tend to turn out great.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Video Games forum
Participants:  43
Total posts:  135
Initial post:  Oct 31, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 8, 2012

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