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OT: Obama's speech last night in CT...thoughts? Opinions?

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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:12:38 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 7:12:55 AM PST
And if no one was armed to stop him how many more would have died?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:13:21 AM PST
Of course criminals commit gun grimes, you just don't hear about it because it occurs so frequently. Case in point: gang violence in any major US city.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:13:24 AM PST
D_Strasse says:
But I would rather have an armed teacher that stops the killing in the low single digits than allow it to go on further and would and kill many more while waiting for the cops.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:13:36 AM PST
Lucanus says:
I think gun control would give law enforcement a chance to catch criminals before they get guns. I think gun control would reduce the readily availabillity of these assault rifles, making them harder to get. Though I fully admit I don't think gun control is the complete answer, I think mental health awareness is equally important. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:13:37 AM PST
JJ4prez says:
Oh no, this kind of logic isn't welcome here.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:13:48 AM PST
And you call other people a slave? If you have to be afraid of your own shadow in a country you supposedly love .. why do you live here?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:14:13 AM PST
J. Pardee says:
I would completely agree. Banning guns as a whole clearly wouldn't work. I don't like guns and I can even see that. There should be very strong restrictions for purchasing a gun though. I have a feeling a few people here wouldn't pass a psychological examination to own a gun just from reading these posts.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:14:25 AM PST
JJ4prez says:
Even though none of these cases are ever with assault rifles. They are always with simple hand guns and simply hunting rifles..

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:14:50 AM PST
And I can see you're just a victim-to-be in training.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:15:23 AM PST
Lucanus says:
Perhaps is also tends to happen at those places, because that is were a large group of people gather at a set time? Just saying, you are drawing a correlation where there may not b one. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:15:39 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 7:16:14 AM PST
And for all this gun talk nobody has actually brought up any actual aspect of gun control like limited magazines, changes to gun registration and tracking, what kinds of guns we will and wont allow to the public, etc. and reminds me that I should probably stay out of threads of people I have on ignore.

and while the way we treat guns in America is a problem these particular events are mental health problems. My next post will be an article I hope everyone reads but might get deleted due to the B word used once or twice. I'll post the link here so if it does get deleted the link will still be up.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:15:41 AM PST
GUEST!! says:
I think South Park has it pegged... Canada has such a low rate of deaths via guns because they have a culture of unfailing politeness. If they ever invade all we do is say "Thanks for coming! It was great to have you."

"It... It was great to be here, eh."

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 7:15:56 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 7:16:35 AM PST

Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan-they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork-"Were there any difficulties with... at what age did your child... were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have..."

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying-that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys-and their mothers-need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise-in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill-Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.


In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:16:04 AM PST
Lucanus says:
I am guessing since the police stopped him, the same number give or take. He wasn't stopped by the military at the base. At least based on what I read. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:16:45 AM PST
Lucanus says:
I'd rather spot the guy as a problem before he gets a gun and/or prevent him from getting an assault rifle in the first place, further reducing the number. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:17:25 AM PST
Mmm, I just addressed your concerns about the job of a principal potentially changing. I didn't advocate for the idea of an armed principal or state an opinion on it in any way. I think it's a horrible idea truth to tell. Your initital concerns weren't a good basis for discounting the plan though in my opinion.

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 7:17:30 AM PST
D_Strasse says:
He called his Mom and bitch and she kept her tone "affable"? I would have lost my stuff on the boy.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:17:37 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 7:19:18 AM PST
So you're tougher than me because you know you need a gun to protect yourself?

Lots of irony in this thread. It's like a dry cleaning establishment. And I grew up in the Bronx. In the 80's. How did I ever survive!??

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:18:13 AM PST
D_Strasse says:
Oh for sure, but you can't spot everyone early - we need a secondary defense IMHO.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:19:05 AM PST
Because I live in the real world, with real evil, and real bad people. I don't pretend that we're all going to sit around the campfire and sing "Kumbaya" while Uncle Sugar provides for our every whim and protects us from every harm.

Our country is what it is today precisely because we have the right to own a gun for self defense purposes. It's enshrined in our constitution and has been upheld by the SCOTUS. All debate on the subject really doesn't matter because the issue is settled. Even democrats recognize this fundamental right.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:20:17 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 17, 2012 7:23:36 AM PST
Lucanus says:
Secondary would be to monitor guns that have high capacity ammo and can shoot fast. I would also track people who are buying 200+ bullets. Putting armed guards, IMHO, would be a tertiary defense. I see this is a three step process. :)

Also to clarify, I don't think people want to ban all guns, I think some (including myself) are simply concerned about high capacity quick shooting assault rifles. The shooter in this particular case popped off over 200 rounds. Perhaps it is because I am not a gun owner myself, but 200 rounds seems like a ton of ammo in a short period of time. Nothing that would be required for defense of hunting. The only need for 200+ rounds within a few minutes is war. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:20:18 AM PST
What page of the NRA manual did that garbage come out of? You sound like Duke Nukem.

Posted on Dec 17, 2012 7:21:12 AM PST
Cinema Fan says:
What is SCOTUS?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:21:21 AM PST
That actually came out of my own mind. It's called "thinking for yourself" should try it.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2012 7:21:37 AM PST
Supreme Court of the United States.
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Discussion in:  Video Games forum
Participants:  46
Total posts:  512
Initial post:  Dec 17, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 17, 2012

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