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OT: Ehh, I don't think I believe in God anymore


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 11:50:16 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 27, 2012 11:53:12 AM PST
So, you do believe in purple unicorns?

Oh...Sorry - I thought we were just guessing each others beliefs now.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 11:54:41 AM PST
It's a hard question to answer. And a difficult thing to tell other's your opinion mate, particularly if they are close to you. Here is the question I think you would have to ask yourself first, would telling them make your family disown you, kick you out etc...? If so it may be best to wait until your on your own (if you aren't already) and don't truly need their support to live your life. If you are at that stage already, then It would be best to probably let them know. tell them you respect their right to want to believe in what they want but you just can't join them in that belief.

I didn't know how my family and friends would take the news that I am Gay, thankfully my Parents took it well... not so much my friends. Most of them more or less disowned me preeetty quickly. But that just shows me that... well they weren't really my friends to begin with.

Either choice you make, it is your choice mate and it's rough road either direction. If you have any close friends who share your views... that's good. You will need their support in one way or another.

I wish you luck.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 11:55:00 AM PST
Nightmare says:
Noncombatants can be evil people, and the Bible makes it clear that the people God commanded to be killed were evil people.

"He's not wrong. His actions are. They're wrong because they cause harm."

How do you know that causing harm is a bad thing?

"So, you do believe in purple unicorns?

Oh...Sorry - I thought we were just guessing each others beliefs now."

Oh, you're not going to tell me are you? Sorry for asking a simple question to get clarity on your view. If you didn't want to answer you just had to let me know it was personal.

Posted on Nov 27, 2012 11:55:44 AM PST
Anthony says:
and just to irritate this zealot, nightmare:

"if god was suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted on mankind, he would kill himself" [Alexander Dumas]

"If abuses are destroyed, man must destroy them. If slaves are freed, man must free them. If new truths are discovered, man must discover them. If the naked are clothed; if the hungry are fed; if justice is done; if labor is rewarded; if superstition is driven from the mind; if the defenseless are protected and if the right finally triumphs, all must be the work of man. The grand victories of the future must be won by man, and by man alone."

[Robert G. Ingersoll, "The Gods", 1872]

"Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported. It produces no wheat, no corn; it ploughs no land; it fells no forests. It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver."

[Robert G. Ingersoll]

"Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing - fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand"

[Bertrand Russell]

Posted on Nov 27, 2012 11:57:47 AM PST
""Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown, and partly the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing - fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand""

I've said that my whole life. Glad I'm not the only one. I respect peoples right to be religious and as long as they don't insult me I will not lash back at them. I just can't be religious myself.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 11:58:04 AM PST
Really? All those evil children? Do you think that everyone in any given society with evil people is, in fact, evil? Were all Germans in World War II evil? Are all Muslims in the Middle East evil?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:02:22 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 27, 2012 12:03:38 PM PST
I stated quite clearly before that there was nowhere to progress given your incorrigible nature, feel free to read it again so it sinks in.

You'll just have to reel in the bait and give it another good cast out into the Lake of the Internets.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:05:04 PM PST
Frankenzubaz says:
"How do you know that causing harm is a bad thing?"

Allow me to demonstrate. Punch yourself in the nuts gently = little harm. Punch yourself in the nuts with great force = great harm. Harm is on a spectrum.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:07:02 PM PST
"Bible makes it clear that the people God commanded to be killed were evil people."

An entire country of people all in one go? I don't buy it. Even Nazi Germany (Yup, I just Godwined) had innocents and kind people there.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:08:09 PM PST
Nightmare says:
I can't know God's purpose in killing children of an overall evil people, and I can only assume that it will work out for the best in the end. As a Christian my hope is in the life I will live after death. As Paul explained, if Christians' hope is in this life then we are the most miserable of all people. We give up pleasures that others are free to partake of as they will. We exercise self discipline against natural urges and desires to the best of our ability for the hope to come. As such, I can easily believe that those children will receive some blessing in the afterlife where the true happiness will be found. I know that probably sounds ridiculous and even hilarious to most of you, but from the perspective that this life is merely lived to increase the blessings we will receive after death, God can easily reward people for needless suffering in this life that will more than make up for it in the rewards of an everlasting life.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:08:37 PM PST
Mel says:
I have the same problem with human stories (Bible, etc)

You must come up with your own opinion on God, because no human can come close to grasping infinity. But the smart move is, choose Christianity because you live in the USA, Muslim if you live in the middle east, etc. It makes life easiest.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:10:08 PM PST
Frankenzubaz says:
People aren't evil. Their actions can be, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:10:37 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Fair enough, you don't have to tell me.

"Allow me to demonstrate. Punch yourself in the nuts gently = little harm. Punch yourself in the nuts with great force = great harm. Harm is on a spectrum."

Where is the moral wrong there? It is harmful to lock somebody up in a jail, but that doesn't make it intrinsically wrong.

"An entire country of people all in one go? I don't buy it. Even Nazi Germany (Yup, I just Godwined) had innocents and kind people there."

See my other post above.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:12:43 PM PST
Anthony says:
so "kill them all and let god sort it out"?

and you think that people should be slaves to church/religion/"god" in this life in the hopes of being free in the hypothetical afterlife?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:15:05 PM PST
Your above post doesn't address the issue at all, though. It says "I don't know" and then goes into the Christian Mission Statement without actually addressing the subject. God deems an act to be evil (murder) and then tell us to do it, and in cases in the Bible where someone actually said "Uh, God, that's evil" they were punished for it. If you tell us something is evil, don't tell us to do it.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:15:37 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Slaves to God, yes. Not so much church. The afterlife is my hope, because I have passed up on lots of things with that hope in mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:16:40 PM PST
Anthony says:
Slavery is evil. period.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:17:00 PM PST
Mel says:
by "god says", you mean "man says"

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:18:58 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 27, 2012 12:19:06 PM PST
Mel says:
oh darn, you didn't get to do bad stuff because of your conscious, internet cry babies

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:20:14 PM PST
Nightmare says:
If God tells you to do something, you do it because he is the author of all. It will work out in a benevolent way, because God is a benevolent God. We are not allowed to murder people because it is wrong to do so, but if God commands you to kill somebody that is not murder. Like I said, if God rewards somebody that in the afterlife sufficiently enough, being killed here would be a wonderful thing. The next life will be far greater than this one.

"Slavery is evil. period."

Ok, how do you know this?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:21:04 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Not really crying, because I believe I will be rewarded for my good choices. I'm just making a point that I'm trying to walk the talk.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:22:41 PM PST
Mel says:
if they were actually "good choices" you should be seeing the reward now. Ever live in the present?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:23:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 27, 2012 12:24:43 PM PST
Frankenzubaz says:
"Where is the moral wrong there?"

The moral wrong is in me telling you to punch yourself in the nuts, on the off chance you were stupid enough to do it.

"It is harmful to lock somebody up in a jail, but that doesn't make it intrinsically wrong."

I don't believe in absolutes. Putting a particular person in jail may prevent more harm than it causes. It might be the opposite in the case of a different person. It's hard to measure, but the idea would be to minimize harm, to the greatest extent possible.

Unfortunately, humans love simple answers and the question of good and evil isn't so accommodating, in this respect.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:24:04 PM PST
"Because God said so" doesn't suddenly make it something it's not. You don't think it's at all contradictory for God to tell us something is evil adn turn around and tell us to do it?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 12:24:32 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Only if the present choice isn't morally wrong. Buying a new video game system is living in the present, but if I deem it a choice to be morally wrong I do my best to resist it.
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Discussion in:  Video Games forum
Participants:  70
Total posts:  746
Initial post:  Nov 24, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 30, 2012

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