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Vyckie D. Garrison "NO LONGER QUIVERING" (Norfolk, NE United States)
283 of 309 people found the following review helpful
Warning: Reading the Bible can be hazardous to your Christian faith
, February 28, 2013
When I received my copy of The Skeptic's Annotated Bible my first thought was, Holy heck, it looks just like a bible! I love that the SAB is King James Version: the only bible recognized by True Christians(tm)
The annotation uses category icons to indicate bible verses which are contradictory, unjust, cruel, misogynistic, violent, contradictory, and just plain absurd.
The Skeptic's Annotated Bible cites 384 verses which are misogynistic and insulting to women. When should you cut off a woman's hand, without pity? What should you do with a wife that no longer pleases you? What to do with a menstruating woman? How are women saved? Ever wonder how to find out if your wife has been unfaithful? The bible has the answer! Look it up - the Skeptic's Annotated Bible makes it easy.
My favorite category in the annotation is "Absurdity" which includes 2178 verses. Skimming for verses categorized as "absurd" in the SAB sheds a very different light on The Word of God. The bible is cuckoo crazy ... especially in the KJV.
"It ain't the parts of the bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand." Mark Twain
As a former Christian apologist, reading the Skeptic's Annotated Bible makes me SMH in dismay that I ever believed the bible is credible or defensible. I fancied myself a "student of the Word" - a "workman who needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth" - but in retrospect, it is clear to me now that I only read the bible through the charlatan-colored lens of Christian fundaMENTALism ... with emphasis on the "mental."
Thank you, Steve Wells for compiling this awesome resource. The Skeptic's Annotated Bible strikes a calamitous blow to biblical inerrancy ... may that "firm foundation" crumble leaving True Believers(tm) solidly standing on a huge pile of Doubt.
73 of 79 people found the following review helpful
Sex & God - It's all about GUILT
, February 5, 2012
After reading Darrel Ray's new book, Sex & God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality, I've been considering the following thought experiment for Believers:
Imagine for a moment that God either doesn't exist or does not care about your sex life. How would this revelation impact your sexuality?
For some, it would mean more sex, for others, less sex - but given all the considerations of research, data, history, testimonials, etc which Ray brings together on this important topic of sex and religion, for most people, the elimination of God from the equation would not result in significant changes to their sex lives. What it would definitely change is this: We would most likely cease to feel guilty about whatever it is we are doing or not doing in our bedrooms.
The religionists' great fear is that apart from the constraints of "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" - the human race would quickly descend into an abyss of sexual debauchery. But think about it ... without the promise of eternal reward or the threat of damnation, how many of us would actually become rapists or child molesters?
Research shows that Believers engage in the same sexual behaviors, at about the same frequency, as the less religious - the only difference is they feel guilty when they do it. And it is through the guilt that religious leaders and institutions gain their power and control over ordinary people like you and me.
I highly recommend "Sex and God" - it is especially important information for women who are the particular targets of religion's need to channel powerful sexual energy into the service of the Church.
114 of 140 people found the following review helpful
WARNING: Me? Obey Him? led to serious abuse & the disintegration of my family
, October 24, 2011
Those fortunate enough to have never actually read "Me? Obey Him?" may be shocked and appalled by the teachings in support of "biblical patriarchy." This review is simply quotations of Handford's own words, followed by comments from my personal experience as a former submissive Christian woman
*God's Perfect Creation Required Order*
Jesus, the Creator of Heaven and earth, submitted Himself to God the Father. He took His place in the chain of command. ... It is no shame, no dishonor, for a woman to be under authority, if the Lord Jesus -- very God Himself -- submitted to the authority of the Father. (p. 14)
The submission of the Lord Jesus is our example. He submitted not just to the tender ministrations of the Father. He submitted to revilings and curses, persecution and suffering. He was our example, not just to obey a gentle and kind husband but a harsh and mean husband as well.
You may find that your obedience to your husband and your obedience to God are all tied together. You may not want to obey your husband because you are in rebellion against God. (p. 51)
By intimately linking Christ's willing subjection to God the Father with a woman's submission to her husband in "the chain of command," the teachings of patriarchy create such an intricate tangle of enmeshment that it's nearly impossible for an abused woman to extricate herself from the bondage of her husband's tyranny without also throwing off her spiritual bond with Christ.
*Woman's Nature Requires Obedience*
We've had the impression that women as a class are more spiritually minded than men, with sensibilities more refined, and purer thoughts. Scriptures say the opposite is true! Women are more often led into spiritual error than men. Perhaps it is caused by her intuitive, emotional thinking. Intuitive thinking is God's gift, not to be despised, but it needs the balance of a man's reason. I should add too, that a woman does not have to be led into error. That is the reason God commanded her not to usurp authority over the man, so she can be protected from false doctrine. (p. 17)
Sexist generalizations are never useful in understanding human relationships.
In reality, I am no less rational than my (ex)husband. He also is gifted with a strong intuition and emotional intelligence. Convinced as we were that I was more susceptible to Satanic deception, our family was deprived of my reasonable input in decision making. My intelligence was squelched, my intuition was distrusted and my feelings were denied. My husband developed an artificially inflated sense of his own powers of logic. I can't count how many times he said to me, "What you are saying sounds reasonable, but how do I know that Satan is not using you to deceive me?" I had no good defense. According to the Scriptures, we had every reason to believe that I was indeed being used to lead my husband astray.
His authority and my obedience did not protect us from tragic deception which ripped apart our family.
*What Do the Scriptures Say About a Wife's Obedience?*
Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the Scriptures say a woman ought to obey her husband! ... [Note, these ellipses represent page after page of scriptural support given by Handford to bolster her argument that God commands wives to obey their husbands.] If you are intellectually honest, you will have to admit that it is impossible to find a single loophole, a single exception, an "if" or "unless." The Scriptures say, without qualification, to the openminded reader, that a woman ought to obey her husband. (pp. 24, 25)
1) She Is to Obey Regardless of His Spiritual Condition
The wife who obeys her husband may win him by her meek and quiet spirit, her loving behavior. (p. 25)
2) She Need Not Fear Conflicting Authority
There is no hint that a woman may have to choose between conflicting authority. ... If it is needed in order to fulfill both obligations, God will do a miracle to make it possible. ... It is safe to conclude that when God told a woman to obey her husband, He intended for her to be able to do it without risk of offending other authorities. (pp. 25, 28)
3) She Obeys Without Reference to Her Feelings About the Will of God
The Scriptures say a woman must ignore her "feelings" about the will of God, and do what her husband says. She is to obey her husband as if he were God Himself. She can be as certain of God's will, when her husband speaks, as if God had spoken audibly from Heaven! (p. 28)
When a concerned friend reported our family to Child Protective Services, my ex-husband lost custody of the children due to his abuse. The social worker told me that I was guilty of "failure to protect." The only thing that prevented me from having my parental rights terminated and my children placed in foster care was my willingness to submit to a full psychological evaluation, undergo individual and family counseling, and cooperate with random unannounced home visits by Social Services.
My older children rightfully blame me for not protecting them against their father's abuse. Even though they know that I was influenced by books such as "Me? Obey Him?" to believe that it was God's will to submit to the abuse, my children cannot be fooled into thinking that I was not really responsible for their suffering. I have apologized for my neglect. Most of my children have forgiven me -- still, the damage is done and some things can't (and shouldn't) be forgotten.
*What If a Husband Expressly Commands Something Explicitly Wrong?*
When women ask me this question, I counter with two of my own:
1) "Have you been living in daily obedience to your husband as part of your wholehearted, loving submission to God?"
(This is an essential part of the problem. If a woman has not been submissive, God has no responsibility for her situation and cannot be blamed if her husband requires something wrong.)
2) "Has your husband ever actually commanded you to do something wrong?"
In the hundreds of times I have asked these questions, not once, if my memory is right, has a woman answered, "Yes, I am always obedient, and yet my husband has required me to break one of God's laws."
Because, when a woman takes God at His word, submits to her husband without reservation, fears God and loves Him, then God takes upon Himself the responsibility to see that a woman does not have to sin! (pp. 37, 38)
Many non-Christians can at least appreciate Jesus as a good moral teacher, but I have come to think of my 25+ year walk with God as the perfect example of a codependent relationship. To me, having "the mind of Christ" means thinking like a battered woman: It's really all my fault that He treats me so poorly. If only I were a better person, He wouldn't have to make me suffer. He only does it when I disobey -- to test my love for Him or to teach me a much-needed lesson. I don't deserve His love. I am so thankful that He puts up with me! Without Him, I am nothing.
Even if a woman can honestly claim to have been perfectly submissive, if her husband nevertheless commands her to do wrong, God still gets off the hook. But, "Me? Obey Him?" gives the godly woman a promise so that she is not without hope: perhaps the Lord will kill her evil husband!!
A man always has the choice of saying yes or no to God. He can reject the pleadings of the Spirit, the pleas of his loving wife. If he does, and he goes on his wicked way, then I have seen God reach down and take that man's life, rather than make his wife choose between two wrongs. (p. 40)
The Lord did not rescue us from abuse by killing my husband -- even though, I'm embarrassed and ashamed now to say, I did pray He would do so after reading this passage in Handford's book. No -- it was up to me to put a stop to the abuse. My only regret in seeking divorce is that I didn't do it sooner.
*Don't I Have Any Rights?*
Can you find a Kleenex somewhere and mop up the tears, just for a minute, long enough to talk to me about what your rights really are?
You don't have any rights, no rights at all. You lost them on the day you rebelled against God. You lost them, not because you are a woman, but because you are a sinner, just as I am. p. 49)
Handford goes on to argue that, having been purchased by Christ's blood, we become His bondservants (slaves) who ought to be glad to do anything He tells us to do. This teaching that I was a slave to Christ translated into me also being a slave to my husband. I had no right to expect decent treatment for myself and our children. My husband owned me and was perfectly within his rights to demand that I comply with his every whim. If his desires seemed selfish, petty, or abusive, who was I to protest? If I would have rebelled against his wishes, then I would be guilty of witchcraft (1 Samuel 15:23) and subject to demonic control. I was told that either God was in control of my life (in the guise of my husband), or else Satan was in control of my life. The only power I had was to choose which one would control me.
*You Have the Freedom From the Consequences of Decisions*
When you give back to your husband the responsibility for the direction of the home and the making of the decisions, you also give him the responsibility for the consequences of his decisions. ... Fortunately, that's the way a man likes it. God made a man to be aggressive, to respond to challenge, to glory in his manhood, to rejoice in draining his strength, to risk great hazards for the one he loves. It is his very aggressiveness that a woman sometimes finds frightening, simply because she is a woman. She doesn't have confidence in her physical strength, in her ability to cope with danger, in her decision-making ability. It is a privilege, a gift unearned, for a woman to have a man take upon himself her welfare. (p 56)
What Handford fails to mention here is that the wife and children have to live with the consequences of the husband's decisions. Reality persists. In actual fact, if a woman turns over all authority to her husband, and he blows it, she is nevertheless responsible by abdication for the resultant predicament in which the family finds itself. Perhaps God will not hold the submissive woman responsible for her husband's squandering of the household funds, but her children's hollow eyes will haunt her all the same.
The male aggressiveness which I feared was, in fact, strengthened when I catered to my husband -- much as a bully becomes increasingly malevolent until his targeted prey dares to stand up to him. My insecurities regarding decision-making and my ability to cope worsened as I was never permitted an opportunity to prove to myself that I could deal with challenging situations.
God has a wonderful way of working it out for the comfort of the whole family when a woman leaves the decision making to her husband. (p. 57)
Wishful thinking much?
*Don't I Ever Get to Express an Opinion?*
When you are talking over a problem, if it isn't asking too much, try to think reasonably. ... Men think women talk too much about how they feel, rather than considering facts. Sure it's important how you feel. Can you tell him why you feel that way? (p. 61)
There is a word for this contemptuous insult: Misogyny. It means, hatred of women. Anyone who thinks so little of women should be afforded zero credibility when it comes to handing out marital advice.
*Why Do I Have to Make All the Concessions?*
Why doesn't the husband have to do his part first? Why? Because you are the one burdened for a Christian home. Having a home where Christ is the head is cheap enough at whatever price you have to pay! Think how long the rewards of a good Christian home will last. Then ask yourself if it is worth the trifling mortifications of obedience. Of course it is! All valuable things cost something. Certainly you will have to pay a price. (p. 69)
A relationship in which one party must make all the concessions has nothing to do with love and everything to do with power and control. It is unhealthy, dysfunctional, unsustainable, and perverse. It is not good for the wife and it is not good for the husband either.
The "mortifications of obedience" in my marriage were not trifling. I was not the only one who had to pay the price. Patriarchy took a terrible toll on my children: physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. We are still paying the price to this day. Sadly, the promised rewards of a good Christian home never actually materialized for us.
*But What If His Influence on the Children Is Bad?*
Then make sure your influence on the children is good. Let them see a mother who loves God and keeps His commandments by obeying her husband! Your influence, by God's grace, can counteract the bad influences a father can have. ... Obey God. Obey your husband. God will see to it that bad influences on the children are countered. (pp. 72, 74)
My children will tell you that this simply is not true. Day after day, week after week, year after year, my husband's anger and control wore the children down. They learned his bad habits. His hatred and criticism destroyed their enthusiasm for life.
I submitted, he dominated. The children learned that in all relationships there is an imbalance of power -- better to be the person in power.
Over and over, I prayed for the Lord to help me counteract my husband's negative influence. Despite my desperate pleadings, the reality was that he had way more energy, he could lecture for hours and hours without a break, he spent more time with the children while I was on continual bedrest either pregnant or recovering from pregnancies/deliveries. Plus, he had all the power -- so which of us would the children want to emulate? Certainly not me and my martyrdom.
*I Want to Do Right, But I Can't Help How I Feel*
Have you noticed how many Scriptures there are that command a wife to obey her husband, and how few Scriptures there are that command her to love her husband? There is only one Scripture, to my knowledge, that tells a wife to love him, and that is Titus 2:4. Why? Because, I think, in a marvelous, supernatural way, submission brings love. If you obey him, you will love him, love him more than you ever dreamed possible. p. 75)
The principle which Handford is describing here actually has a name. It's called Stockholm syndrome. As defined by Wikipedia, Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, essentially mistaking a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness.
I learned this coping mechanism well in my own abusive marriage. Whenever I felt the natural repulsion and lack of love engendered by my husband's poor treatment of me and the children, I forced myself to become even more submissive to him. I was following Jesus' admonition to turn the other cheek and to repay evil with good. Guess what? It worked!! In no time, the good, positive feelings returned and I was once again feeling incredible love for my husband.
But this trick of my mind was not a good thing as it enabled me to endure the abuse -- to rationalize and justify my husband's behavior even when the children and I were clearly suffering harm.
*Does It Work? Does It Really Work?*
God has made a promise to the woman who will obey her husband. He keeps His promises. He will not honor disobedience, no matter what excuse is given for it. A woman wins her husband, draws him to a higher spiritual plane, by a submissive, quiet spirit. ... Yes, it really works. God will bless your home if you are obedient. (p. 77)
It really works! ... Unless it doesn't work, in which case, it's all the woman's fault. This guaranteed recipe for success cannot be proven false because the "no liability" clause is inseparable from the key ingredient: perfect obedience. Not blessed? Not His/his fault. The woman is solely responsible for every failure.
*For the Sake of the Children, Submit*
In any unresolved conflict between husband and wife, there is always great danger to the marriage, however trivial its beginning. Children instinctively know the sanctity of the home itself is endangered when there is conflict over who is boss. Not only will children suffer from fear, they will also learn from a rebellious mother her rebellion against authority. ... The children will learn rebellion and rebel against you and your husband. Then they will resent all authority: the school, the boss, the policeman, the structure of life itself. (p. 86)
Conflict in marriage is normal. The absence of conflict is a sign that one (or both) of the partners has been demoralized and dehumanized. Holding an opinion and caring about it is a big part of what it means to be alive. Working through conflict, listening to each others' differing perspectives and learning to compromise is the way mature couples learn and grow. Marriage does not have to be a power struggle. Nobody has to be "the boss." Mutuality makes a happy, satisfying relationship for both husband and wife.
Children who witness healthy parents dealing constructively with the inevitable disagreements of daily life are learning valuable conflict resolution skills.
I thought that I was providing much-needed security for my children when I continually assured them that their father and I would never divorce. They told me later that to them, my unwavering commitment sounded like a death sentence.
It was not until I began standing up for myself and the children against their father's unreasonable demands that he quit acting like a two-year-old and began to take responsibility for his own actions. Witnessing me challenge their father's authority did not turn my children into rebels -- it was living with a bully which made them revolt. When I took a stand, the children learned healthy boundaries: both to insist on their own boundaries and to respect the boundaries of others.
*For Your Husband's Sake, Obey*
Imagine how quickly a man would turn his steps homeward in the evening, after a day of grappling with the world, if the woman who waited for him met him with words of tenderness on her lips instead of a set of ultimatums. ... If it matters at all to you about the man you have promised to love until parted by death, for his well-being and joy, for his usefulness to God, obey him! (pp. 87, 88)
When I indiscriminately submitted to my husband's every whim, I was not treating him like a grown-up man. I was treating him like a spoiled child. Taking on the responsibility for his "well-being and joy" stripped him of self-respect and enabled him to avoid the consequences of his own poor choices. Filing for divorce was, in fact, the first time I showed true respect to my husband since before we learned about and accepted the teachings of patriarchy. Finally I was saying to him, "You are an intelligent, sane adult and therefore, you must live with the consequences of your behavior."
A man whose wife is a spineless doormat is actually more likely to stray from home as he seeks a companion who challenges and engages him on an adult level.
*For Your Own Welfare and Happiness, Yield*
There's a strange paradox in Scripture, echoed in many places: If you would live, you must die (John 12:24). If you would keep your life, you must lose it (Matt. 10:39). If you would be free, you must submit yourself a slave to Christ (Rom. 6:18). And there is one more paradox which must be taken by faith as well: if you would know true freedom, you must submit to your husband's authority. Obedience certainly has its great and final reward in Heaven, but it also has the present tangible reward. ... Obedience brings happiness! (p. 88)
Again, wifely submission is intimately linked to one of the central messages of Christianity.
What Elizabeth Rice Handford doesn't want you to know is that this same argument, these same verses, in fact, were used by Christian slaveholders to justify their ownership of fellow human beings.
Stop for a moment and actually read the following verses:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free. (Eph. 6:5-8 -- the same section of Ephesians in which Paul commands wives to submit to their husbands.)
To sweeten the deal, proponents of biblical slavery would remind slaves that serving the Lord meant serving their masters - but this is not burdensome because the Bible also commands masters to treat their slaves kindly:
And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. (Eph. 6:9 -- with such a Christ-like master, why wouldn't a slave willingly submit?)
Sound familiar? Teachers of wifely submission are always quick to point out that while God insists that women obey their husbands, we must remember that husbands are likewise instructed to love their wives as Christ loved the church. So that makes the subjection and subordination of women okay ... just like slavery, right? After all, the bible commands both women and slaves to submit and obey.
Virtually no Christians today advocate slavery. The verses commanding slaves to obey their masters have not been removed from the bible or discredited, yet we have laws against people owning people. Ask Christians why they believe that slavery is evil when the bible does not condemn slave owners and, in fact, commands slaves to obey their masters, and you will receive a myriad of responses: You have to consider the context and the culture; God was not condoning slavery, only acknowledging its common practice and providing guidelines to make it more humane, etc. What you will not hear -- ever -- is a Christian who replies, "The bible commands slaves to obey their masters. Therefore, slavery is God's will and faithful Christians must practice slavery to be in the will of God. Obedient slaves are happy slaves."
Think about it. Why don't we still practice slavery? Why?
Slavery is wrong. It is dehumanizing, unjust, inequitable, immoral and inconsistent with the Golden Rule. It does not matter that the bible commands slaves to obey their masters - we all know that slavery is wrong, wrong, wrong.
How do we know that slavery is wrong when the bible does not tell us so? Answer that question and you will also understand that it doesn't matter how many times the bible commands women to obey and submit to their husbands - we know instinctively that the subordination of women is just plain wrong. For the same reasons that we dismiss and ignore the bible commands for slaves to obey their masters, we should also feel free to disregard the bible commands for wives to obey their husbands.
230 of 248 people found the following review helpful
No Longer offering MY blood for God's binge drinking ~ I've sobered up!
, August 23, 2010
When my daughter saw the cover of my copy of "Drunk With Blood: God's Killings in the Bible," she asked, "So are you becoming a Satanist now?"
Drunk With Blood really is a horrible book ~ and what makes it such a horror is that it enumerates the sheer number of people whom God either killed Himself or else approved of their deaths ~ straight from the Bible!
From the back cover: Who has killed more, Satan or God? (Biblical numbers only, no estimates.)
That's slightly less than 2.5 MILLION people killed by God in the bible, folks.
In the introduction, author Steve Wells, explains how he came up with the numbers ~ he only uses the actual #s from the bible. For instance, in the story of Job ~ God gave Satan permission to kill all of Job's children & servants. The bible says he had 10 children. Since he was a wealthy man, Job probably had more servants than children ~ but "Drunk With Blood" doesn't count the servants' deaths. Which means that these numbers that Steve Wells came up with are actually under-representative of the # of people killed by God.
Steve explains that he also didn't include FUTURE killings ~ those promised by God in Revelation ~ since they haven't happened yet.
The promised End Times killings are ~ Wow ~ a horrendous # of dead people ~ to be killed by Jesus, himself! Rev 14 foretells "one like the Son of Man" swinging his sickle & "reaping" enough dead that their blood fills a huge winepress. Wells calculates that the amount of blood needed to fill this winepress would require the death of 24 TRILLION people ~ killed by JESUS!
'Cuz ~ as we've been told ~ the first time, Jesus came as a Lamb ~ next time, He'll come as a Lion ~ wreaking vengeance upon the enemies of God.
Quoting Steve Wells, "there are many other verses that say similar (bats**t crazy) things in the Bible, & they're not all in Revelation ..."
Ch 1: The Flood of Noah ~ est. # killed 20 Million ~ Everyone on earth except Noah & family.
Ch 2: Abraham's war to rescue Lot ~ est. # killed: 100
Ch 3 Sodom & Gomorrah ~ est. # killed: 2000
So you get the idea ~ "Drunk With Blood: God's Killings in the Bible" quotes verse after verse where God killed the creatures He made in His own image.
When I was a Christian, I generally skimmed over those barbaric killings ~ I figured God must've had a reason ~ even if I didn't get it. Or I would say, "Well, that was the old covenant" Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice ~ so Christianity is different.
Quoting @AlmightGod: To most Christians, the Bible is like a software license. Nobody actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree."
"Drunk With Blood" includes God's killings in the New Testament too: Ananias & Sapphira, Herod Aggripa, and of course, Jesus. "God killed his son in order to stop himself from torturing people forever after they die..."
It's impossible to see all God's killings ~ clearly enumerated ~ chapter & verse ~ & not conclude that the bible God is EVIL.
So here's the thing ~ for all the talk about God being LOVE & the value of human life ~ the bible God relishes the death of His enemies ... and He also glories in the deaths of his chosen people (martyrs get a crown) and even His own Son!
As a former Quiverfull believer, I saw this devaluing of human life ~ esp. for women ~ for mothers who risk their lives producing "arrows for God's army" (See Kathryn Joyce, Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement
) Mary Pride ~ a Quiverfull leader, says that women who die in childbirth are to be honored as martyrs! Quiverfull moms who die in childbirth are just so much collateral damage in the war for the advancement of God's kingdom.
After reading "Drunk With Blood" I am not at all surprised when I think of the callous attitude re: maternal deaths among the "pro-life" and "pro-family" ~ biblical family values camp.
I used to identify with Job ~ "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" was my life verse ~ ugh! I feel betrayed by this "Creator!" I was willing to die for Him ~ yet, the bible God thinks nothing of wholesale slaughter of men, women, children. What was I thinking? Such a monster God is unworthy of my devotion & self-sacrifice.
And my oldest daughter ~ she very well could have become another victim of this Killer God ~ as a "Quivering daughter" (see Hillary McFarland, Quivering Daughters
), following His ways drove her to attempt suicide.
When God says, Love me & serve me or burn forever ~ that's not a choice ~ that's an ultimatum.
Thanks, Steve Wells for "Drunk With Blood: God's Killings in the Bible" ~ this book is an awesome contribution to HUMAN SANITY!!
380 of 433 people found the following review helpful
NO LONGER QUIVERING
, March 24, 2009
The reason I am telling the story of my involvement in the Quiverfull movement, and how I got out ([...]) is because I came across an article on Alternet and read with interest about the people and the teachings which our family had followed for many years. I was kind of amazed that someone on that liberal news site knew about this movement ~ so I posted a comment on the article ~ and that's how I got in touch with Kathryn Joyce, author of Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement.
I pre-ordered the book and as I read it, I kept saying aloud, "I know these people!" All the names were familiar to me ~ Nancy Campbell, Mary Pride, Doug Phillips, Phil Lancaster, R.C. Sproul Jr., Debi Pearl, Anna Sophia Botkins, Jennie Chancey ... "Wow," I thought, "she even interviewed Charles Provan!" I used to own nearly every book mentioned in Quiverfull ~ and, yes ~ I read them all ... starting with The Way Home: Beyond Feminism and Back to Reality, the book which really started the current patriarchy movement that's becoming so popular among homeschoolers. Isn't it interesting that it has mostly been the WOMEN who are writing these books, teaching seminars, and leading other women into this life of subordination?
I really want to just encourage everyone who has been touched by the Quiverfull philosophy in any way to read this book. I wish I could quote the whole thing for you ~ and then sit back and read the comments which would sound something like, "OMFG!" and "Is this stuff for real? ~ People actually believe this and live this way?!!" Yes ~ it's true. The thing is, those of us who followed (and those who are still following) the Quiverfull / patriarchal lifestyle got into it gradually ~ just a little at a time. For us, it started with homeschooling which seemed pretty radical at the time. It was at our state's annual home school conference that I was introduced to some of the movement's books ~ mostly through Vision Forum, a supplier of Classical Education curriculum.
I started out with Nancy Campbell's "lovely" vision for godly wives and mothers ... discovered Phil Lancaster's Patriarch magazine which spread the idea to the men ... then found S.M. Davis's "Solve Family Problems" series in which the dynamic and often vehement (my kids said he just yelled a lot) preacher set us straight about what constitutes a truly godly family ~ and what dedicated Christian wouldn't want to do whatever the Lord requires to please Him and to be a "blameless" example of righteous living to our friends, family and community?
Now I will admit that when Debi Pearl came out with her book, Created to Be His Help Meet ~ even I couldn't stomach it. I guess there must have been some residual lesson I'd learned after trying to follow the bible study ladies' advice about how to be a perfect, godly wife in order to win my abusive, unfaithful first husband to the Lord ~ but I just couldn't support Pearl's book wholeheartedly the way I had Campbell's God's Vision for Families or Pride's All The Way Home: Power for Your Family To Be Its Best. I remember one Sunday morning when my friend Laura brought Created to Be His Help Meet to our home church and was raving about what an awesome book it was and how she was putting Debi Pearl's ideas into practice and could already see a change in the way her husband was treating her. Ugh. Poor Laura!
To me, the most startling part of Joyce's book Quiverfull, is the section towards the back entitled "Daughters." Actually, I am ashamed to admit that I used to look at Anna Sophia and Elizabeth Botkins with awe and envy ~ why couldn't my girls comprehend these Visionary Daughters' inspiring insight on godly femininity? I actually bought So Much More: The Remarkable Influence of Visionary Daughters on the Kingdom of God for Angel's birthday and sent it to her in Nashville in the hopes that she would finally understand how much simpler her life would be if only she could "get" the idea that the only way to true liberation and peace is to follow her father and submit herself to his authority.
When I talked to Kathryn Joyce over the phone as she was interviewing me for an article on Salon.com, I told her I found it very affirming that for most of the book, she simply sticks to quoting the movement leaders ~ often with no commentary at all. "What that said to me," I explained, "is that to those who aren't steeped in this particular worldview, the craziness of it all is self-evident. There's no need to say, 'This is total crap!' because anyone who isn't already convinced can clearly see that it's truly insane to try and live this way."
Something else I really appreciate about this book ~ Quiverfull puts the whole movement on display all at once. The reason this is important is that for most families, getting into this lifestyle is a step-by-step process ~ a progression from "peculiar" to seriously bizarre which takes place incrementally over a period of many years.
If a family home educates their children in order to spare them from the humanistic curriculum in the public school ~ they'll soon pick up on the extra-biblical, humanistic teachings which have filtered into the church as well. And if that family recognizes the spiritual danger of allowing their kids to spend a lot of time in the company of public school peers, it's a small step to keeping the family together for church worship rather than sending the children to the age-segregated Sunday School program. Once a couple comprehends that children are precious in God's sight from the moment of conception ~ how could they possibly expect to witness to the pro-life message with any semblance of credibility when they ~ by their use of birth control ~ have accepted the "abortion mentality" ~ that babies are only a blessing when they fit into their parents' lifestyle conveniently? And once they've eschewed birth control and the babies start coming in rapid succession ~ Michael Pearl's child training advice is going to be a life-saver.
This is just a very brief example of how it all fits together into a comprehensive worldview which makes absolutely perfect sense to the family who started out simply looking for a supportive community of like-minded Believers which would uphold their family's biblical values in the eyes of their children.
Twenty years ago, if I would have read Quiverfull, I believe seeing the big picture of where we were headed would have shocked us enough to cause me to take a good, hard look ~ no doubt, I'd have gone elsewhere in my search for solutions to the everyday problems of family life. No way could you interest me in a harsh, demanding lifestyle of lots of babies (well, you still maybe could have convinced me of that part, since I do love babies), home schooling, home birth, home business, home church, no children's programs, no teenagers, no dating, parents choosing their children's spouses, husband making all the decisions and wife not daring to make the slightest commitment without first obtaining her husband's approval, no TV, only G- and some PG-rated movies, and absolutely NO Harry Potter.
Taken as a whole ~ there really is no appeal to the Quiverfull / patriarchy lifestyle ~ no matter how "biblical" it is and how "godly" a family might become by following those God-ordained family roles. It is my contention that this way of living is a package deal. Once a family takes that first step ~ if they're living it logically and consistently ~ they'll eventually find themselves living out pretty much the whole program ~ the "Vision" which, in its entirety ~ as clearly depicted in Quiverfull ~ turns out, in practicality, to be a very real, living nightmare.
6 of 6 people found the following review helpful
We are so excited about this dollhouse!
, December 17, 2002
= Durability: = Fun: = Educational:
I purchased this dollhouse along with the dining room, nursery, and double foyer. We have five girls - ages 17, 11, 10, 6, and 2 - and they are all so excited to play with this absolutely fantastic dollhouse! There are so many details I can't begin to describe - a tiny floppy disk for the computer, books for the bookcases, pictures, a baby monitor ... so many wonderful items that the playtime will never end! My 17-year-old wants to invite her friends over to play with it! I do have watch the 2-year-old very carefully or the small parts will get lost - we put them in a ziplock after playing. The only drawbacks - no dolls - I ordered a family dolls from another website and they were quite expensive - loving family dolls are too cheap and gaudy looking to fit into this exquisite house. Also, I couldn't get the bathroom set which had the girls pretty disappointed - you know how girls love bathrooms :-). I had no idea when I order the dollhouse how nice it would actually be - would have paid much more for these beautiful rooms, working lights, ceiling fans, etc., the stylish furnishings and window dressings, all the miniatures, etc., etc.!!! Great dollhouse, excellent value - buy the whole set if you can get it!