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meaning of the rose and ring

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Showing 1-11 of 11 posts in this discussion
Initial post: May 8, 2008 7:28:13 PM PDT
Henry Duke says:
what is the meaning of the ring given back to the Phantom in the same way it was given to Christine (closing the hand over the ring). Does it mean that Christine really wanted the Phantom but could not because of proprieties. Why the ring show up with the rose at the end? Why did Raoul purchase the monkey and took it to the grave? Those are significant events but no one has commented on them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 17, 2008 9:20:17 AM PDT
Carmel says:
The ring was originally the ring Raoul gave to Christine when they were engaged, the Phantom took it at the masquerade, gave it to Christine because he wanted her to marry him. When the Phantom told them to leave him alone and forget it all, Christine gave the ring back to him because she couldn't marry him and she 'loved Raoul.' She only gave it back in the same way probably because the director wanted it that way? It's like a connection. And it was romantic.

The Phantom put the ring on her grave, I'm guessing, because it was officially over for them, and kind of a remembrance of what happened. The rose is just his trademark, basically.

And the monkey... that was the Phantom's, Raoul recognized it, he wanted to put it there because it was a connection between the three of them.

That's how I interpretted it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 17, 2009 11:53:37 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 17, 2009 12:00:08 PM PST
Shannon Ryan says:
The ring was given to the Phantom because it was given to Christine my Raoul. She felt pity for the Phantom and gave her part of her married life which was her engagment ring. It sort of signified that she would always remember him. There were no properities involved since Christine seemed to have to choose either the Phantom or Raoul to be with, and I don't think she minded age difference. In the end, Raoul bids on the monkey and wins it because he remembers Christine talking about it. The monkey symbolized Erik's childhood as a circus freak and being beaten. Each man brought back something to her grave. Erik's monkey was brought back by Raoul, and Raoul's engagement ring to Christine was brought back by the Phantom. That's my interpretation. You also asked of the red rose. Erik was Red Death at the Masquerade because the costume was in another novel in which Red Death is actually a disease which kills people within 30 minutes. In the story, the king brought all his friends in the palace and borded all his villagers out to die. However, he had 7 rooms in his palace all a different color where the Masquerade party the king is having goes on for months. However, one day out of the last room that no one goes in, the black room, red death comes out and stalks toward the king and kills him. When people grope for the costume, there is no one beneath it and all of them perish. Erik's Red Death costume is like a rose. Roses are a beautiful red flower, but the thorns are dangerous to the touch.

Posted on Dec 19, 2009 9:34:43 AM PST
Lenoir says:
Very late coming to this post, but..... I interpreted the "return" of the ring as Christine merely (but poignantly) saying that a part of her would always belong to the Phantom and to no one else - that in some ways, she'd always be there with him. As for the red rose, I think it was intended as the archetypal symbol of enduring romantic love that it's always been.

Posted on Sep 18, 2010 9:56:14 AM PDT
Windy City says:
Well, starting off, Raoul gave the ring to Christine as an engagement present, then the Phantom took it from her. Later, the Phantom gave it to her, offering marriage, but she gave it back to him because she loved Raoul. The rose is the Phantom's trademark and he put the ring on her grave to show she would always belong to him. Raoul put the monkey on her grave because the Phantom used it as a lullaby for her and the lullaby sort of represented Christine. That is my interpretation.

Posted on Aug 31, 2011 11:56:06 PM PDT
guruteen says:
Well i know im late but Christine in my opinion gave back the ring because she wanted the phantom to have a part of her. The phantom gives here the ring to mean he will always love her and as a sense of forgivness. Raoul because he realizes how strong the love of Christine and Erik is buys the monkey box to reming her love of her teacher, her angel.

Posted on Mar 1, 2012 3:26:57 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Mar 1, 2012 3:27:50 PM PST
I have to admit that her giving him the ring didn't sit well with me. I understand it was a gesture that he would always have a part of her heart.

For me, I think Raoul was reminded of how he and Christine came together, when he saw the monkey. He became seriously nostalgic; it reminded him of the fight he put up for her, against the Phantom.

The symbol of putting it on her grave was his telling her spirit, that he would always love her.

Posted on Mar 12, 2012 4:46:00 AM PDT
Eric Edwards says:
I think that there was no overt attempt at informing the audience (us) what these things meant. IMHO in most if not all true art it is partly what the "artist" of a painting, song lyric, movie etc. is trying to convey and partly what the observers personal reaction to it is. So I think that y'all are right about what they mean.
I think that the rose was the ghosts present to Christine and the ring was meant to go back to Raoul as an olive branch from The Phantom to say that he had finally got to the point where there were no hard feelings toward him and Raoul left it there for the same reason.

Posted on Jul 20, 2014 5:55:41 PM PDT
Shawn M. says:
Very late coming to this post..but what they heck. I think I agree with letting every one make their own take on what the return of the ring means.. Unlike many others, though, I do not think it has anything to do with Raoul. Raoul is, and always has been, a secondary character. The primary characters are Erik and Christine. The story revolves really around them. You could replace Raoul with anyone. This said, I believe that her returning the ring, the ring Raoul gave her, the ring that belonged to Raoul's granny, to Erik more symbolized that he would always be a part of her and she a part of him. It more was a "marriage" of theirs than she and Raoul. As for his returning it to her upon her death, I think that without her in the world, there was no marriage, hence no need of a ring. The single flower? What is more romantic than a single red rose? Just ask any woman.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2015 9:56:55 PM PDT
It is quite possible I'm putting my foot in it, but in my multiple (solitary, rewind, fastforward, pause, and closed captioned, variously) viewings of the film, I have never noticed any connection at all between the ring and Raoul. What I saw was the Phantom giving her the ring, and when she gives it back, she's sort of saying "I am sorry. Very sorry. I will remember you, but I cannot keep this. Good bye." Presumably the Phantom left the ring round his signature black-ribboned red rose as a token of love- he had kept it to remember her but now wishes her to have it, even in death. Where he once gave it to a state of anger, confusion, obsession; now he leaves it as a peaceful symbol of his love for her, and only her. She was the one who taught him what love really is, after all.
I was under the distinct impression that Raoul's engagement gift to Christine was the gold and diamond pendant she wears to the masque. Why else the Phantom's temper would turn so suddenly as he pulls it off her neck by the chain, I cannot think.
Several of the replies refer to the Phantom by his given name, which is never mentioned in the musical, stage or film. I hope it's because people read the book. Fabulous read, that I am presently revisiting, but ten years has tarnished my memory a bit, so as of page 64 I can't remember any particulars from later in the story.
Please, if I am wrong,correct me, and if you can, tell me where/when in the film to look for Raoul with the ring. He did know that Christine went back to give/return it to the Phantom; he was waiting with the boat.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2015 10:27:18 AM PDT
Apple Pie says:
Hey Susan, I absolutely agree with you that the ring Christine returns to the Phantom was the one he had originally given to her. She had to return it, as she wasn't going to marry him.
Raoul had given her a different ring, which she wore around her neck and not on her finger, because she wanted their engagement to remain a secret.
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Participants:  11
Total posts:  11
Initial post:  May 8, 2008
Latest post:  9 days ago

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