If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me? Still, thanks for the positive message in the book. If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me? Still, thanks for the positive message in the book.

Can someone share the view on an answer to the question above?
asked by Epsilon Delta on January 25, 2010
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Bravo to you Mr. Bruce Bain by using both GOD and SCIENCE within the context of the same subject. You seem to have all of the data, but are not connecting the dots. So, allow me to help, if I may.

First, I have reviewed the work "The Secret" and strangely I find no actual real reference to the Law of Attraction as it being a "scientific law" as you so admonish as an "inescapable error". What IS said there is that it is a law of creation. Sure, a lot of science is spoken of, a lot of innuendo and such, but not to the degree that you have here held so negatively. It would seem, in fact that one might say that you concede to the notion that there are things that are unexplained, even to science.

However, I say that once one considers ALL evidence garnered instead of labeling some of it as "anecdotal" or discrediting it in some other sort of way, that once one does that, it is no longer being held in the strictest sense of what is known as the scientific method which is to include ALL evidence and look at it objectively. That is something of which most of the scientific community at large will not do, because it is become corrupted by an agenda that does not want the real truth of this be known.

Part of that corruption is YOU.

Now, while on this subject, recognize these books:

The SCIENCE of mind
The Art and SCIENCE of Raja Yoga
The SCIENCE of Getting Rich
Virus of the Mind: The New SCIENCE of the Meme
The Edinburg Lectures on Mental SCIENCE
Fully Present: The SCIENCE Art and Practice of Mindfulness

Law of Attraction: The SCIENCE of Attracting More of What You Do Want and Less Of What You Don't Want

Now, understand also that our human evolution is all about this idea, like it or not, the idea that our thoughts create our reality.

I leave you with this paraphrased excerpt from the book "Heart of the Soul" by Gary Zukav:

"Since our origins as the human race, there has been the need to feel safe, valuable, and loved and this has gotten us to focus our attention outward toward what is external. We have become so used to reaching outward to satisfy that need that we scarcely notice it. It has become natural, and for millions of years it has worked for us. Creating shelters, finding food, raising children, and sending them to school have made countless human beings feel safe, valuable and loved.

Today, these things are no longer working as they once did. The same need remains, but looking or reaching outward no longer satisfies it. This is a problem because the habit of looking and reaching outward is still strong, and most do it without thinking. The need to feel safe, valuable, and loved can no longer be satisfied merely by surviving, or by engaging in activities that enhance the probability of survival. The feelings that formerly came with sitting under a campfire sharing food from the hunt are no longer fulfilling and are seldom ever done today.

Our satisfaction now comes from having a nice home, friendships and communities for a greater goal. In short: spiritual growth. Developing more external power - the ability to manipulate and control those things that appear to be external - will not solve the problems that confront us with increasing severity.

Spiritual growth, looking inward, is replacing the pursuit of external power. We are now learning how to look inside ourselves to find the roots of our insecurities and to pull them."

You see, Mr. Bruce Bain, your fears of our society becoming a ciaos through this idea is a rather unwarranted fear, and is nothing more than your own fears based upon what your religion has taught you. Christianity holds certain truths from the public out of this fear, yet holds it within the confines of the Vatican under lock and key. Why?? Fear and nothing more. Even the Master Jesus said "Ye are Gods" and was then summarily almost stoned to death for stating what Truth has been shared TWICE in our own old testament! What an absurdity. The evolution of our human species can NOT evolve any farther unless such ideas are to be taken to heart and utilized as the utter Truth that it is. Like it or not, we as a society WILL evolve with or without you.

Take it to heart and join us in our ever expanding joy of discovery of the knowing of our own light and personal power. I promise you that you will be pleased. Stop fighting it, it is the wave of the future of mankind.
Christopher M. Seri answered on January 4, 2012

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ED: If you, the rabbit, think the lion won't eat you then you won't be eaten unless the lion thinks enough positive thoughts about eating a rabbit in which case you are toast. But if there is a deer around not at that particular moment thinking positive enough thoughts, the lion might preferentially, based on alternative positive thoughts leading said lion to prefer deer over rabbit, choose to eat the deer, in which case you have time to abandon your positive thoughts and run like hell
David B Simonds answered on August 18, 2010

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Talking about animals and comparing them and their behavior to ours is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. We humans can think, have rational thought whereas animals can not. They operate at a completely different level than us, namely the world of survival of the fittest. Humans operate way above and beyond that.

Having been evolved enough to not need to hunt for food, the only thing most humans need be wary of is another human, often not because of the need for food for survival, but other egoistic and strange motivatons not found in the animal kingdom.

Having a frontal lobe, humans have the capacity to create their reality by thought and belief systems that an animal has no access to. My above earlier comment was only designed to get you to think.

Humans, as you well note, have eyes that look straight ahead. This should indicate to you something as the question then answers itself.
Christopher M. Seri answered on February 12, 2010

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this sounds like quite sarcastic remarks on positive thinking... yeah i think positive thinking works when you are energetic going for what you are after, but positive thinking won't bend the rule of the world for you.
Epsilon Delta answered on August 18, 2010

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Forgive me if my own crudely articulated understandings do not do justice to the problem, but I find that the same dilemma (Conflict of Forces) also can be shown to exist in common misconceptions concerning the existence of God.

It has to do with the popular misconception, that the only force or forces operating in the Universe, originate from a single source. Permit me to explain.

One common argument against the existence of God, is the Argument from Evil. Thus, natural disasters such as Floods, Earthquakes, and Tornadoes, are seen as examples of forces originating with God. Thus, if these are designated as Evil, it is supposed that God does not exist, because it is supposed that God cannot be the author of Evil. I propose that such arguments are weak, precisely because they suggest that the only source of forces, operating in the Universe, are those generated by God. Conversely, people offering such an argument, virtually deny that an forces operating in the Universe, are generated by Mankind, and so they ask, in a plaintive voice; "Why did God kill all those people?" and so forth.

This is almost the mirror opposite of the arguments offered by the 24 MASTER TEACHERS. Their proposal, seems to be that the only forces operating in the world, originate from a single individual. This would be the target audience for their book. Therefore, when I read the book, it seems to be supposed that I am the only person in the world, generating forces of Attraction.

Thus, I would argue that one of the obvious deficiencies of the teachings of the 24 MASTER TEACHERS, is the apparent assumption that if all persons reading and engaged in demonstrating Attraction are generating forces, why do the 24 MASTER TEACHERS neglect to write about Cause and Effect relationships between the interaction of such Forces?

This is why I propose that this error is the direct opposite of the error discovered in the Argument from Evil concerning God. In the God argument, it is supposed that the only Force operating in the Universe, are God Forces. In the teachings of the 24 MASTER TEACHERS, it is supposed that the only Forces operating in the Universe, are the Forces generated by the individual person who is reading the book.

Thus, I think there is good reason to claim, that this shows that the 24 MASTER TEACHERS are not demonstrating the operation of a "scientific" law, as they propose at the bottom of page 3 of their book.
Their teachings, are largely dependent upon the ignorance of their reading audience, rather than upon an appeal to an actual "scientific" knowldge of the operation of Forces in the Universe.

---------------------------------------------------

That stated, there is one other error of difficulty which needs address. This concerns arguments concerning POSITIVE THINKING.

It is a misrepresentation of the arguments presented by the 24 MASTER TEACHERS, to claim that the LAW OF ATTRACTION, is identical to teachings about POSITIVE THINKING, such as those popularized by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale. In other words, what the 24 MASTER TEACHERS write about, as the
LAW OF ATTRACTION, is not specifically, the teaching of POSITIVE THINKING.

I am myself, very encouraged by arguments for POSITIVE THINKING. It is an excellent attitude and worldview to adopt. However, the argument for POSITIVE THINKING is not equivalent to, nor identical with, what has been popularized by the 24 MASTER TEACHERS. The LAW OF ATTRACTION is a separate teaching, and the two ideas are not interdependent.

The reason that this can be argued is the very reason previously identified in this post. The LAW OF ATTRACTION is a poorly described, undefined, vague conception, introduced in a book which intended to popularize the confused thinking of the 24 MASTER TEACHERS.

Norman Vincent Peale, did not articulate the existence of the LAW OF ATTRACTION. The man had a good deal more sense than to do that. The inescapable error of the 24 MASTER TEACHERS is that they claimed that the LAW OF ATTRACTION is a "scientific" law, which it absolutely is not.

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Bruce Bain answered on August 18, 2010

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Epsilon Delta:

I replied with a comment upon your review.

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Bruce Bain answered on January 26, 2010

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i think a lion will eat a rabbit if it cannot find a deer yet.

the question can also be modified as "if i am a deer and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me?"

so if my belief system is that there won't be any lions that eat me, in other words, i don't need to be alert when eating grass, then I am more safe.

the deer that is alert when eating grass is more in danger.

why are deers having eyes that look to both sides rather than straight ahead then, if there is no need?
Epsilon Delta answered on February 7, 2010

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Can you tell me why dogs are more loyal than many humans, and tigers are more brave than many humans?

On many level, I don't really see human that much different from animals. Some other things, humans can be more selfish than many other types of animals. Humans can be more deceiving than many other types of animals. Which types of animals betray their own type? Humans do.
Epsilon Delta answered on February 12, 2010

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Hello Christopher M. Seri. How are you?

How nice to see you return to this forum for dialogue after a year's absence.
Let's examine your published remarks in the context of Fact and Logic, shall we?

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ISSUE THE FIRST
======================================================

"First, I have reviewed the work "The Secret" and strangely I find no actual real reference to the Law of Attraction as it being a "scientific law" as you so admonish as an "inescapable error". What IS said there is that it is a law of creation. Sure, a lot of science is spoken of, a lot of innuendo and such, but not to the degree that you have here held so negatively. It would seem, in fact that one might say that you concede to the notion that there are things that are unexplained, even to science."----paragraph 2, from the comment of Christopher M. Seri
on Jan 4, 2012 12:20:15 AM PST, regarding the discussion topic,
" If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me?" in the forum for "The Secret" on Amazon.com

========================================================

.

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(1) First Christopher M. Seri, the 24 Master Teachers and Rhonda Byrne do indeed indicate to the reading public that the Law of Attraction is a "Scientific Law". That claim appears as follows in the book, and I quote:
.

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***********************
************************************
**********************************************

"We all work with one infinite power.
We all guide ourselves by exactly the SAME LAWS.
The NATURAL LAWS of the universe are so precise that we don't have any difficulty building spaceships, we can send people to the moon, and we can time the landing with the precision of a fraction of a second."

"Wherever you are---India, Australia, New Zealand, Stockholm, London, Toronto, Montreal, or New York-----we're all working with ONE POWER, ONE LAW. It's ATTRACTION!"-----p. 3, JACK CANFIELD, "The Secret" 2006

*****************************************************
*****************************
****************

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(2) In addition Christopher M. Seri, there are your own statements on this issue, published as follows:

.

.

================================================

"The Law of Attraction, while science as such does not recognize this as a real physics principle IS a viable law whether one believes in it or not."----------sentence 1, paragraph 1, comment of Christopher M. Seri Feb. 12, 2010 8:34 PM PST regarding the "Longhorn24" review for "The Secret" on Amazon.com


"This IS a science, let no one else try to tell you otherwise."-------------------------------sentence 1, paragraph 5, comment of Christopher M. Seri Feb. 12, 2010 8:34 PM PST regarding the "Longhorn24" review for "The Secret" on Amazon.com


"This work is based on sound principles of how the Universe works: Universal Laws that have always been in effect in our cause and effect universe."--------- comment of Christopher M. Seri on Dec 25, 2008 2:21 PM PST


"This is not airy-fairy philisophy, but rather raw physics of how the Universe works."-----comment of Christopher M. Seri on Dec 25, 2008 2:21 PM PST


"Rather trust the process and realize that we all live in a physical realm where each of us has a self-perpetuating belief system."-------- comment of Christopher M. Seri on Dec 25, 2008 2:21 PM PST



"Thought is what governs everything that is your experience in the physical. All of the great mystics that walked the Earth knew this. Do you call them delusional? "------comment of Christopher M. Seri on Dec 28, 2008 12:18 AM PST

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"What you put out is what you get back. That is a Universal Law of Physics. I did state that. You did not pick up on it. Raw mechanics, Raw Physics. What ever energy vibration of intention that your mind is eminating is what you get back as your physical reality. I can't make this any plainer than that."----comment of Christopher M. Seri on Dec 29, 2008 7:39 PM PST

=======================================================

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(3) Forum member "Rolio," who is also an advocate in the public media, for the Teachings of the 24 Master Teachers, has already acknowledged that the 24 Master Teachers claim that the Law of Attraction is a Scientiic Law.

In regard to that published claim by Rhonda Byrne and the 24 Master Teachers, "Rolio" wrote as follows, and I quote:

.

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======================================

"You're right, The Secret is incorrect when it calls it scientific."----sentence 1 of paragraph 3, from
the comment of "Rolio" on Jan 8, 2012 4:45:27 PM PST regarding the review of "Renaz" for "The Secret" on Amazon.com

======================================

.

.

(4) In short, Christopher M. Seri, you claimed that the Law of Attraction is a Scientific Law, and furthermore, you abandoned all dialogue with me over a year ago when I demonstrated that you could not produce the RAW PHYSICS data to substantiate your extravagant and exaggerated claims about the Law of Attraction and the Teachings of Rhonda Byrne and the 24 Master Teachers.

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(5) In addition my dear friend, you are employing Metaphysical terminology such as POSITIVELY and NEGATIVELY which are inappropriate in any Scientific context. Metaphysics pertains Epistemologically to Philosophy, and not to Science.

I know that you like to confuse the reading public concerning these distinctions as much as possible but as you have no Scientific Data to support any of your assertions as to a Positive or a Negative, your published remarks are entirely dismissible at this juncture.

.

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(6) Cheery exhortations such as you offer, with phrasings such as "Bravo to you Mr. Bruce Bain...etc." have absolutely nothing to do with Scientific Methodology.
Scientific Researches are not conducted in an emotional manner.
You are intruding your intention to derive a predetermined outcome in the consideration of data.
.

.

ISSUE THE SECOND
================================================

"Having a frontal lobe, humans have the capacity to create their reality by thought and belief systems that an animal has no access to."----------sentence 1 of paragraph 3, from the comment of
Christopher M. Seri on Feb 12, 2010 7:55:21 PM PST regarding the discussion topic,
" If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me?" in the forum for "The Secret" on Amazon.com

======================================================
.

.

(1) What Scientific Evidence from a Peer Reviewed Science Publication can you cite which demonstrates factually that any Human Being has ever created something designated THEIR REALITY wherein a THOUGHT or a BELIEF SYSTEM exists in a Causal Relation to Natural Phenomena?

.

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(2) What RAW PHYSICS data can you cite from a Peer Reviewed Science Publication indicates to the reading public that Fideisms exist in a Causal Relation to Natural Phenomena?

.

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ISSUE THE THIRD

=====================================================

"Take it to heart and join us in our ever expanding joy of discovery of the knowing of our own light and personal power."---sentence 1 of paragraph 15, from the comment of Christopher M. Seri
on Jan 4, 2012 12:20:15 AM PST, regarding the discussion topic,
" If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me?" in the forum for "The Secret" on Amazon.com

=====================================================
.

.
.
(1) You write with great humor my friend; because there is no such thing as a Scientific Evidence
for something you refer to as OUR OWN LIGHT or a PERSONAL POWER.

.
You are massively confused my friend. The current Scientific Model for the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a Mechanistic Model, and not, as you errantly conclude here, a model which presumes the existence of a "Transcendent" PERSON.

Neither are there Scientific Measurements for any kind of PERSONAL POWER or PERSONAL LIGHT.
You are simply mixed up in your thinking.

.
.

ISSUE THE FOURTH

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"So then, my reality is the mental equivalent of my own belief system."----sentence 3 of paragraph 2, from the comment of Christopher M. Seri
on Feb 7, 2010 1:14:00 AM PST regarding the discussion topic,
" If I am a rabbit and think positively, does that mean lions won't eat me?" in the forum for "The Secret" on Amazon.com

========================================================

.

.

(1) Unfortunately Christopher M. Seri, there is no such thing as Scientific Data which shows that you possess something termed a REALITY that is unique to a "Transcendent" PERSON. There is no such thing in Science as a REALITY that is the Effect of a Natural Cause designated a PERSON.

Your are so entirely mixed up in your presumptions as to contemporary Scientific Knowledge that you confidently publish the most absurd claims in the public media, entirely unable to offer any objective verification for anything you claim.

.


----------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION:

Your public communications serve to demonstrate that you have difficulty distinguishing Fact from Fiction.

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So where is your RAW PHYSICS data Christopher M. Seri?

.
.

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I remain as always, your friend. ---Bruce R. Bain

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Bruce Bain answered on April 16, 2013

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Epsilon, it means that you most likely won't be attracting a lion to come to eat you; that is unless you continue to focus on a lion eating you, then you will attract that to be in your reality. If such said rabbit never held the thought, the most likely case will be that it won't happen. Just how many rabbits do you know of that a lion ever ate? Or for that matter, do lions even like rabbit?

I can tell you this: I don't own a gun and I don't have an alarm in my home. Never had found the need for either in my reality. As such, no one has come to do me in or rob me as my mentality is that it most likely won't. So then, my reality is the mental equivalent of my own belief system.

that is all there is to it
it is as simple or complex as that
Christopher M. Seri answered on February 7, 2010
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