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77 of 93 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Is this the Penultimate CIA hangout position, or just another "Case Closed?", October 22, 2013
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This review is from: The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ (Hardcover)
This is an interesting theory. In fact it is a slightly more robust and sophisticated off-shoot of the "renegade CIA officers did it" theory. However, the critical element -- of linking it to Clint Murchison -- shows up here as being mostly rhetorical, and thus is weak at best. The language used on page 155 is that "Murchison could have easily arranged the meeting between Cord Meyer and LBJ." However, is it unfair to point out that the authors are way too far down the road and into the weeds to be using as the finally linking connection, a "mealy-mouth" phrase such as "could have easily been arranged?"

In any case, the LBJ/Cord Meyer angle is an E. Howard Hunt death bed concoction. Which raises another fair question to ask: Who in their right mind would believe anything that E. Howard Hunt would say, especially since he never admitted being the third "faux tramp" taken from a train in full view of the world and arrested only yards away from the Grassy Knoll the day of the assassination? Is that what he refers to as being a "bench warmer?" And with the exception of "Poppy Bush," and Richard Nixon, Hunt is also the only man in the known universe who did not know where he was on the day JFK was murdered? (Did he not lose a million dollar law suit to the Liberty Lobby and Spotlight Magazine on the basis of lying about where he was on that fateful day?) And did his son, St. John Hunt, not confirm that Court verdict by insisting that his mom had told him "that daddy is on a business trip to Dallas" -- as well as recognizing his father unmistakably as being the third tramp in the picture shown across the world on that fateful day?

It must be said too that this "LBJ/Cord Meyer did it" version, spun from Hunt's devious mind, still retains the same old contours of, and smells like, CIA disinformation. Perhaps this is the last in a fifty-year long series of CIA hangout positions. Let's hope the next theory will be the one that finally moves up the stairs to the top of the Langley hierarchy. This is a long-winded way of saying that the parts of this well-researched and well-rehearsed narrative do not all fit into a single completed puzzle: The sum of the parts are still much greater than the whole? It leaves the JFK assassination still "an over-determined system," with too many left over parts pointing in every conceivable direction? (Just like a successful intelligence operation is supposed to do, right?)

To wit: We now know that there were at least four teams of shooters in Dealey's Plaza that fateful day -- six if you consider LBJ's designated hit man, Mac Wallace, and Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone, as separate teams. As well, a cascading sequence of theories have evolved over time that are best defined by a single dimension: how far away from the nest of high-level vipers residing deep within the bowels of Langley, they were.

First there was the lone nut commie theory. Then there was the Castro friendly Communist cabal theory that LBJ used to recruit Earl Warren to Chair the Warren Commission. Then there was the violent anti-Castro cabals in combination with David Ferrie and Clay Shaw -- the Jim Garrison theory. Then there was the New Orleans branch of the mob theory. Then the mob in cahoots with renegade CIA agents and anti-Castro revolutionaries, theory. Then the Jimmy Hoffa did it theory.

Now its the LBJ and Cord Meyer did it theory. And even though the book pointed to yet another theory, in the end it left "the GHW Bush and his CIA friend's did it" theory, hanging in the air. May I suggest that since with these last two theories, we have already breached the gates of Langley, there is nothing really left to do but to go straight to the top of the Langley pyramid and finally pin the tail on the donkeys they belong to: Allen Dulles, Richard Helms and James Jesus Angleton. Fifty years later, we know that nothing could have happened without them knowing about it and directing it, so why are we still pussy-footing around with these low-level theories? Yes, LBJ was a crude megalomaniacal sociopath but always at the beck and call of the plutocratic oil interest. Never and independent operator. So, the sixty-four thousand dollar question is: was LBJ, Ed Clark and Cliff Carter capable of pulling off such a complex operation? I seriously doubt it?

Regarding having an "over-determined system" and the cowardly omitted Poppy Bush theory, may I ask: What do we now do with all the recently uncovered extra parts, that when carefully connected, lead directly to GHW Bush's door steps as being the most likely CIA operational manager of the JFK assassination? To wit: He succeeded Richard Nixon as head of "Operation 40," the anti-Cuban group of trained and operation ready assassins (that even this book suggests morphed from a "get Castro hit team," into a "get JFK hit team.") And this remains true even if at the time Mr. Bush was still "plausibly denying" that he was in the CIA at all. Despite his denials, it nevertheless has been argued that GHWB, among many other things, was also the moving force behind Watergate (helping from his CIA perch, with his hand-picked team working as plumbers in the White House basement), to oust Richard Nixon.

Plus, one of Bush's best friends, John Ashton Crichton, as this book so astutely points out, was all over the assassination map in the run up to the assassination and during the motorcade: from helping LBJ and John Connelly plan JFK's trip to Dallas, to being a close friend of the owner of the Book Depositary building, DH Bryd; to having his key aide drive the lead car in the motorcade, to being a ranking officer in the Texas 488th military intelligence detachment (that had close ties with the DPD and that was instructed to "stand-down" the day of the assassination), to being a close friend of LBJ, Clint Murchinson and HL Hunt, both of whom are reputed to have financed the murder.

Moreover, Bush's friend Crichton also attended the assassination-eve final coordination party at Clint Murchinson's house. Add to this the fact that Bush, through "Operation 40," continued to have long-term ties to both E. Howard Hunt, the Cubans he served as case officer for, and the radical factions of the anti-Castro movements; that Bush was also a close friend to George de Mohrenschidlt, who was directed by J. Walton Moore, a CIA operative and Bush friend, to babysit LHO when he returned from Russia (De Mohrenschidlt was also rumored to have received $200k after the assassination while working in Haiti on a project for Zapata Oil, GHW Bush's CIA front company); and a Bush/Crichton theory comes more and more into focus and into the realm of plausibility.

Finally and most importantly, is the fact that George Herbert Walker Bush is one of only three people who also has claimed not to know where he was when JFK was shot (the other two, as noted above, are Richard Nixon, and E. Howard Hunt).

Yet, Bush, inconveniently has caught his tail in a web of gratuitous lies of his own making in this regard. He has in fact been caught red-handed deploying a series of pre-positioned alibis for not having been in Dealy's Plaza, when there is in fact a wealth of contrary evidence that proves beyond any doubt that he was in fact there?

This evidence is made of solid gold and includes among others, a paper trail of FBI memos that not only proves that he was there, but also proves that he was in the CIA at the time of the assassination. Interestingly, included in most of the hard evidence are Bush's own clumsy attempts to cover his trail. However, the piece de resistance is an undeniable picture of him standing in front of his friend DH Bryd's Book Depositary Building at high noon on 11/22/63. How is Mr Bush ever going to explain away this gold-plated but contrary evidence?

So, what are we to make of this book as we near the 50th Anniversary of the JFK assassination? I believe it is an honest effort to finally get at the truth: that LBJ clearly was heavily involved in both the planning and the cover-up phases of the assassination. However, I also believe that the JFK assassination was a much too complex conspiracy to have been run out of a "mom-pop"-like shop as LBJ's suite 8F at the Huston Lamar Hotel was.

LBJ, Cliff Carter and Ed Clark may have been able to bend business and politics to their will, but they were still "small time operators" no matter how much they saw themselves as an omnipotent "shadow government;" and no matter how much others wish to see them as "untouchables." The JFK assassination was a massive undertaking that required a lot of moving parts; a virtual army of "cut outs," and an overseer with a panoramic vantage point over all of those moving parts, and a huge budget accountable to no one. This leaves only one possibility: the nest of vipers at the top of the clock tower in Langley. Five stars
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Tracked by 4 customers

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Showing 1-10 of 18 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Oct 23, 2013 4:22:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 23, 2013 8:34:07 AM PDT
R. Ryckoff says:
H.L. Calhoun:
You provide a really excellent summary here of key figures and evidence.
And I agree the Ed Clark scenario is not realistic at all.
(I've ordered the book on Kindle but have not read it, yet.)
And I do think that Allen Dulles/Richard Helms/James Angleton were the primary planners in charge of carrying it out.
I think G H W Bush played an important role - but I really don't think he was at the highest levels (as the above 3 were) - he was still fairly young. He WAS there and he did LIE about where he was. And I think Crichton was important.
You succinctly point out the "successive layers of the onion" (fall back-diversion cover stories) that the CIA sophisticatedly built into the plan -- to gradually unravel, as needed, over time. This, combined with the CIA's organized assassination of witnesses over many years (incl. their own people and contract agents) quite successfully blinded many people to the reality of the coup d'etat.
However, I want to conclude by saying that I think LBJ INITIATED the plot as early as 1960 and maybe even earlier against whoever would become president, if it wasn't him.
See Bobby Baker saying at the 1960 convention that JFK would not live out his term and would die violently; LBJ and Hoover blackmailing Kennedy into taking Johnson as his VP against his will; and LBJ making several bizarre statements at the convention about the co-pilot taking over when a plane is going down and that he was a gambling man who thought he could become president by being the VP -- and he said this to a woman news reporter!!
And you add in, of course, LBJ's lifelong obsession w/becoming President; the record of his being a serial murderer (see testimony of Sol Estes and Cliff Carter along w/the Gov. Allan Shivers of Texas in the 1950's accusing LBJ to his face of having arranged the murder of Sam Smithwick in 1952); his mental instability and his rapid decline after leaving the presidency due in part, I think, to overwhelming guilt.
This and the above means, that it would not really be correct to label LBJ "The Mastermind." (that was the CIA, military intelligence and at least Gen. Curtis Lemay at the Pentagon [who ran the 'official' Bethesda autopsy]) In other words, the operational and planning level was the CIA and military intelligence.
But I believe Johnson was ultimately the one behind it or the one who started it.
And the CIA and Pentagon couldn't get away with it w/o an accomplice as Vice President. So their interests obviously dovetailed perfectly.
(If LBJ hadn't started it, I have no doubt the CIA and elements of the military would have wanted to do it, anyway.)
BTW, I also suspect Nixon had foreknowledge - not as this book apparently suggests - only learning of it on Sun. seeing Ruby shoot Oswald.
Nixon had 3 different stories re. where he was when he heard about the assassination. And he profited from it by becoming president in 1968, probably unlikely otherwise, and also highly unlikely w/o RFK's assassination. And this would also explain Nixon's paranoia about the "whole Bay of Pigs thing" coming out during and before Watergate, as Haldeman recounted.
And if he did have foreknowlege, he was most likely at Murchison's 'party' the night of Nov. 21, along w/Hoover, LBJ, et al, as Madeleine Brown said. After all, he was in Dallas on the 21st and the morning of the 22nd.
And you are right in bringing forward G. H. W. Bush's importance -- just look how he profited in the following 4 decades.

Posted on Oct 23, 2013 7:04:38 PM PDT
"LBJ, Cliff Carter and Ed Clark may have been able to bend business and politics to their will, but they were still "small time operators"

Oh God no. Lyndon Johnson for most of the 1950's was the second most powerful man in Washington, DC behind Eisenhower. LBJ, senator (D-Pentagon) and one of the handful of congressional overseers of the newly created CIA, had immaculate connections to radicals in military and CIA, as did his Dallas, TX inner circle supporters of oil barons and military contractors.

Ed Clark? The most powerful political boss in Texas, personal friends with LBJ for decades and the personal attorney of some of the richest men in America- all of whom had immaculate connections to the folks in military/CIA who hated JFK.

Allen Dulles, Curtis Lemay, Edward Lansdale - they were doing the dirty work of LBJ and Texas billionaires: D.H. Byrd, Clint Murchison, H.L. Hunt and anyone else in their Texas billionaire Kennedy hating inner circle.

GHW Bush - Texas CIA, CFR, oil, connections to anti-Castro Cubans.

David Atlee Phillips - CIA from Fort Worth, a handler of Oswald

Gen. Ed Lansdale - his schedule confirms him staying in a Fort Worth hotel at the time of the JFK assassination.

E. Howard Hunt - indicts both LBJ and CIA in the JFK assassination.

Gen. Curtis Lemay - longtime close personal friends with D.H. Byrd and H.L. Hunt - called the Kennedy brothers "cockroaches" in his oral history.

Here are some good books relating to the role of Lyndon Johnson in the JFK assassination:

1) "LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination" by Phillip Nelson
2) Watch "The Men Who Killed Kennedy - the Guilty Men - episode 9" at YouTube - best video ever on the JFK assassination; it expertly covers Lyndon Johnson's role.
3) "The Radical Right and the Murder of John F. Kennedy" by Harrison Livingstone
4) "Blood, Money & Power: How LBJ killed JFK" by Barr McClellan
5) "The Final Chapter on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy" by Craig Zirbel
6) "The Texas Connection" by Craig Zirbel
7) "Texas in the Morning" by Madeleine Duncan Brown
8) "Billie Sol Estes: A Texas Legend" by Billie Sol Estes
9) "Dallas Did It" by Madeleine Brown & Connie Kritzberg
10) "Operation Cyanide: Why the Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War III" by Peter Hounam (LBJ's role in the attack on the USS Liberty)
11) "Bloody Treason: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy" by Noel Twymann
12) "The Dark Side of Lyndon Johnson" by Joachim Joesten
13) "How Kennedy Was Killed - The Full Appalling Story" by Joachim Joesten
14) "The Dark Side of Camelot" by Seymour Hersh
15) "Power Beyond Reason: The Mental Collapse of Lyndon Johnson" by D. Jablow Hershman
16) "Lyndon B. Johnson: A Memoir" by George Reedy
17) "Remembering America" by Richard Goodwin, Chapter 21 "Descent"
18) "JFK and the World Oligarchy: When Enough is Never Enough" by Robert Burnside
19) "Coup d'Etat: from John F. Kennedy to George W. Bush" by Robert Burnside
20) "JFK: Conspiracy of Silence" by Charles A. Crenshaw
21) "The Men on The Sixth Floor"by Glen Sample & Mark Collum
22) Watch "LBJ: A Closer Look" VHS 1998 by Lyle Sardie
23) "Bond of Secrecy: My Life with CIA Spy and Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt" by Saint John Hunt
24) Google "LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK"
25) Google "The USS Liberty, Israel & President Johnson's Order to Destroy the USS Liberty"
26) "Lyndon Johnson the Tragic Self: A Psychohistorical Portrait" by Hyman Muslim & Thomas Jobe

Posted on Oct 23, 2013 7:07:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 23, 2013 7:08:19 PM PDT
No one in congress was more closely plugged into CIA/Pentagon in the 1950's than Lyndon Johnson. He overtook his mentor Richard Russell in this respect.

[Evica, "A Certain Arrogance," p.215]

When Senator Lyndon B. Johnson became chair of the Committee on Aeronautical and Space Science, the Texas powerbroker had been able to wear two significant military/intelligence hats, chairing both the Senate Preparedness Subcommittee and Aeronautical and Space Science. In 1959 and then in 1960 during Senate hearings called "Missiles, Space, and Other Major Defense Matters," Johnson gave a splendid "I'm shocked" response to testimony from the Bureau of the Budget, the Joint Chiefs, and from a raft of "military experts." Even Eisenhower's Secretary of Defense cooperated with Senator Johnson in establishing the fictional but crucial "missile gap." A typical LBJ topic- how big was his "missile" opposed to any one else's- had been established (despite its military fiction), and, given LBJ's enthusiastic support, it became a major political argument in the JFK/LBJ presidential campaign, an issue often mistakenly attributed to John F. Kennedy himself.

LBJ, the Bureau of the Budget, and Funding the CIA and the Pentagon

Having for several years tanked in every encounter with the Pentagon, the Bureau of the Budget took another dive during the 1960 LBJ Senate hearings as the Bureau wore the somber colors of Eisenhower's "administrative failures." Senator Johnson was able to generate "a litany of military requests" that became, in fact, a Defense Department "shopping list." Throughout the Eisenhower Administration, Senator Johnson was the crucial ally of the military/intelligence coalition as it collected its funding from inside the Pentagon budget, especially after the heavily publicized threats of Soviet space and missile programs. The softest entry for the U.S. intelligence's black budget operations then became the hot areas of "air" and "space," specifically through the U.S. Air Force's programs in research and development, and then through NASA, hence Johnson's 1959-1960 Senatorial pressure on the Eisenhower White House that was topped by his 1960 Senate hearings.
What followed were the "research and analysis" contracts (with their significance intelligence dimensions) for aircraft and space companies and think tank/development corporations funded by the Pentagon, all of them ostensibly working for the Air Force and the U.S. "aerospace" program. For LBJ and Texas, following his collaboration with the USAF, aerospace research and development (both in the government and business), the Budget Bureau, and with covert intelligence operations hidden inside persistent Pentagon funding appeals, the payofff was staggering: "As President, [LBJ] .... helped engineer the greatest Pentagon raid on the [U.S.] treasury since World War II. Among other results was a gigantic defense-industry boom for his home state, Texas."
Johnson had elected to join the Budget Bureau/Pentagon/black budget intelligence team in the early 1950's, collecting Senatorial power and privilege; then as Vice President he acquired more potency for U.S. space and missile programs, the only areas that really mattered to him and Texas, unti he "rode the tiger of military [and covert intelligence] spending into the White House ...[and] it rode him out."

[Evica, "A Certain Arrogance," p.215]

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 25, 2013 8:28:38 AM PDT

A mouthful all on target. I think you have even persuaded me! (And that obviously is difficult to do). Also, you are right about Nixon.

My only come back, which I realize is a very weak one, is that LBJ was always a water-boy for HL Hunt and that ilk. In fact, one could argue that his confession to Madeleine, the day after the assassination: "that it was those CIA boys and those Oil men." May have been his most honest statement.

But altogether your theory is much tighter than mine. Thanks for the comments.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 25, 2013 10:09:15 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 25, 2013 10:10:07 AM PDT
Herbert. Thank-you. I have no doubt, none whatsoever that LBJ was involved in JFK's murder up to his bloody eyeballs.

I know you like good books. A must read is Operation Cyanide: How the Bombing of the USS Liberty Nearly Caused World War Three

LBJ was the one who ordered Israel to attack the USS Liberty - almost gave us WWIII there.

Then get volume II of the Gold House trilogy. LBJ, his friends in the military and Richard Nixon looted HUGE amounts of gold from Victoria Peak off White Sands Missile Range.

LBJ's take - 8 million troy ounces of gold. - worth back then in the hundreds of millions - today's dollars - billions

The Gold House - The Lies, The Thefts - Book Two of The Gold House Trilogy

Key point I am making: Lyndon Johnson was totally plugged in with military, CIA ; he was senator (D- Pentagon).

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2013 3:56:12 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 4, 2013 3:56:42 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2013 4:02:33 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 4, 2013 4:05:02 AM PST]

Posted on Nov 17, 2013 7:55:59 PM PST
Douglas H. says:
In the poster's second paragraph he mentions that the Third tramp in Dealey Plaza was E. Howard Hunt. This is totally false. The Third Tramp, in line as they walked across the street, was Chauncey Holt. He has a book that sells here on Amazon. I read it, there is absolutely no doubt that the Third Tramp was Holt. He's carrying a paper sack. That sack contained a high-tech radio receiver. If interested, google Chauncey Holt, there's a lot of info about him. Self-Portrait of a Scoundrel

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2013 6:17:56 PM PST
I am going to get the book. However, if Hunt's son said it was his father, thats good enough for me. Plus, from the reviews of Chauncy's book he is portrayed as some kind of "Soldier of Fortune," a familiar CIA disinformation mask.

Its going to take a lot of convincing before I will believe it was anyone but Hunt. Who said he was a "benchwarmer."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2013 6:34:01 PM PST
Douglas H. says:
HLC: Thanks for your comment. I have mentioned this to Hunt's son. He now refuses to talk to me about it. I think that he's beginning to have some doubts that the Third Tramp was his father. The photos certainly look a lot more like Chauncey Holt than E. Howard Hunt. I believe that Hunt was just too sophisticated a person to be hanging around dressed as a ''tramp'' and cooped up in some box car on Nov 22. The tree tramps are Rogers, Harrelson and Holt. Holt's remembrances of that week and day are historic. Also, the book Files on JFK is excellent. It details who the actual shooters were and their connections to the Chicago mafia...all of them were long time assassins. The Grassy Knoll shooter was James Files, who's still alive in and in prison. If you get Holt's book, you will find it most interesting.
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