29 of 118 people found the following review helpful
Interesting but a slow read,
This review is from: The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (with Cross-References) (Kindle Edition)
A very slow read, while I did find some of the books to be enjoyable, as a whole most were very slow. Character development was in most cases nearly non-existant. I found that nearly all of the female characters in the book were villianized with very few exceptions. Though it seems to be a very popular book among a large subculture it is unfortunatly rather tedious. I have to admit that I came very close to puting it down a number of times and giving it up, but managed at long last to struggle through to the end. For me, I prefer a more creative work of fiction yet some how this one has managed through countless revisions to remain on the shelves.
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Showing 1-10 of 20 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 17, 2010 9:38:20 AM PST
Mary E. Borden says:
LOL - you have an interesting sense of humor!
Posted on Nov 28, 2010 9:09:06 PM PST
W. G. Moore says:
You doubtlessly have not read the Bible as evidenced by your claim that "nearly all of the female characters in the book were villianized [sic] with very few exceptions." Really? Name them. Not only is your statement redundant ("nearly all"/"very few exceptions"), but it is also untrue. The Bible depicts both men and women as flawed individuals. It doesn't villainize anyone. Your view is merely a politically correct stereotype that you assume must be so.
In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2010 7:18:48 AM PST
Well obviously one must start at the beginning, so lets go with Eve. She got humanity kicked out of the garden of Eden. Both Sarah and Hagar in Egypt. Sarah is viewed as flawed for not being capable of having a child, Hagar for having a child out of wedlock and with the husband of another woman. Yet Sarah's husband Abraham catches no flack for adultery. Genesis 24:1-30 or thereabouts. Rebecca accepts bribes for her hand in marriage. While some would call this a dowry, in most cases a dowry is decided between the father and the groom or the father and the father of the groom, a woman accepting it, prior to marriage discussions beginning smacks of prostitution. Leah tricks Jacob into marrying her Genesis 29:15-30. Potiphar's wife attempts to seduce Joseph. She isn't given a name but she is an adulteress. This Author really should at least name his antagonists that just smacks of lazy writing. Genesis 39:7-12. Tamar tricks her dead husband's brother into having sex with her to beget a son, this after she has already slept with her husband, and one of his brothers. So she sleeps with all three brothers. This too is in Genesis. Pretty foul to the women and this is just book one of this tediously over long narrative. Miriam in Numbers challenges Moses and god gives her leprosy as punishment for it. in Judges, Jael assassinates Sisera with a tent spike. Also in Judges Jephtah's daughter, another character without a name is told she is going to be sacrificed and she spends the rest of her time before the sacrifice crying about not getting any sex. Also in Judges Delilah spies on Samson then sabotages his strength leaving him to torture and eventual suicide. In Samuel, Bathsheba sleeps with King David while she is married to a soldier and then proceeds to help David kill her husband. A few others I could mention, Lilith, Jezebel, even the unnamed woman in John 8:1-11 who doesn't warrant a name but is still an adulterer. Clearly this author is very anti-woman. My redundant statement was intentional to assist the poorly educated who tend to flock to this book. Since I "doubtlessly have not read the Bible" I'll neglect to continue pointing out additional women this author slanders. While, I appreciate your desire to comment, you may prefer to avoid making yourself look the fool when labeling people stereotypical.
In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2010 10:33:30 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2010 10:35:25 AM PST
W. G. Moore says:
You misunderstood my point, Joel. I said the Bible presents *both* men and women as flawed individuals. Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, but so did her husband Adam. Eve is not singled out. Adam is presented as guilty of rebellion against God.
Sarah is not presented as flawed for not having a child, but she is for insisting Abram sleep with Hagar and for not having faith that she will conceive when told by God that she would. Abram (Abraham), on the other hand, is shown to lie on at least two occasions. The Bible does not denigrate Hagar for having a child by Abram.
Rebekah does not accept bribes for her hand in marriage. Abraham's servant gives the gifts to Rebekah before she hears about Isaac. Abraham's servant tells her father and brother about Isaac and his, the servant's, mission to seek as wife for Isaac after the gold ring and bracelets are given to her. Bethuel and Laban give permission for her to leave her homeland to marry Isaac. Then Abraham's servant presents the dowry. There is no hint of disrespect towards Rebekah in the account. Charging that this "smacks of prostitution" evidences a lack of awareness of that culture and is simply nonsense. Rebekah is shown to be a flawed person, though, by conniving with her son Jacob to steal the blessing that would have gone to Esau. Jacob, also, is presented as a deceiver.
Leah is not presented as tricking Jacob into marrying her. She was doubtlessly a willing participant, but the deception was the scheme of Laban, her father. So again we have a man who is culpable.
Potiphar's wife does attempt to seduce Joseph. It happens. Claiming, however that "this Author really should at least name his antagonists that just smacks of lazy writing" is really just a gratuitous charge. God's antagonists? Joseph's antagonists? Are you not guilty of the charge you make?
Tamar is not presented as tricking "her dead husband's brother into having sex with her to beget a son." Ever heard of a levirate marriage? The first-born son of a levirate marriage would carry the name of his mother's deceased husband. Tamar did trick her dead husband's *father* into having sex with her. Why? Because, according to custom, the unmarried brother was to be given to his dead brother's widow, but the father, Judah, delayed in giving her the third brother as a husband. Judah is the one presented as unrighteous, not Tamar.
Miriam does challenge Moses' leadership, and God gives her leprosy. And yet Moses himself is denied entrance into the Promised Land because he responded in anger against the people and took their grumbling as a personal attack instead of an attack against God.
Jael does kill the enemy Sisera with a tent stake. Surely you don't have a problem with a strong woman, do you? Jael is present as a heroine. And if you read about Jael, surely you read about Deborah, who helped lead Israel into battle against Sisera's army because Barak is presented as too fearful to go into battle without her. Jael, one heroine, is actually a small part of the story. Deborah plays the larger role, and the Bible presents her most positively. It's there. Read it.
Jephthah's daughter is shown as a sympathetic character. Jephthah, though, is shown as foolish for his rash vow.
Delilah is shown to be a deceiver against Samson, but Samson is presented in an even worse light for taking women who were of the enemies of Israel and being unfaithful to the Nazirite vow.
Bathsheba came at David's summons--he was the king. She should not have, of course, and yet it is not Bathsheba who is presented in a bad light--it is David. He is charged by Nathan with adultery and murder, and Bathsheba did nothing "to help David kill her husband." Where did you find that? David had his general Joab put Uriah in the most fierce part of the battle where he could be killed. Bathsheba had nothing to do with that.
Lilith? Your review is supposed to be about the English Standard Version of the Bible. The word "Lilith" is not in the ESV. Lilith was in Jewish mythology, supposedly Adam's first wife. Please enlighten us about Lilith in the ESV.
Jezebel was a wicked woman. Ahab, her husband, was a wicked man. The Bible presents both as wicked. What's your point?
The unnamed woman in John 8 is depicted sympathetically. Her accusers, all men, are depicted as hypocrites.
To claim that the Bible is "anti-woman," according to your examples, will not pass even the most superficial scrutiny. Check out the extraordinary women of the Bible, such as Hannah, Ruth, Mary--the mother of Jesus, Anna, Lydia, and Priscilla. If you really read the Bible, you will discover that the Bible presents men and women as sinful beings who need a Savior. Now, you may disagree with the idea of sin and the need of salvation and you may consider it all rubbish, but you won't find the Bible "anti-woman" in that regard.
Posted on Dec 17, 2010 5:43:49 PM PST
Amazon Customer says:
Yawn... you've added nothing new to the critique of this work. You obviously worked very hard to be clever, yet your words lack any substance of conviction. Keep trying and you'll find your voice.
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2010 7:34:12 PM PST
Afraid you are going to have to put a bit of thought into your response if you expect me to be insulted, troll elsewhere Lass.
Posted on Dec 18, 2010 4:45:49 PM PST
Guess you missed the point. This is a Holy book, not a work of fiction. I doubt any other religion's holy books would be all that fascinating to you either.
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2010 9:51:01 AM PST
On the contrary, this is a site for reviewing the quality of a book. Other reviews on this site include warnings to not purchase a given book due to its various qualities as well as recommendations for the purchase of a given book due to its qualities. I have done the exact same thing with this book as I have for other books yet here I receive negative response because this book falls into a different category. If it is not subject to discussion, then it should not be allowed in this forum. You are correct in that I have found little of value in this or several other books of current religious mythology. Why, I am forced to ask, must books of "great substance" have to be written in extremely weak syntax and grammar?
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2010 3:26:23 PM PST
Kay Ludge says:
Not to ruin the ending but... Jesus dies.
Posted on Dec 26, 2010 6:29:54 AM PST
Amazon Customer says:
I commend you Joel on reading the Bible. Many people, even those of faith, have not taken the time to sit down and read the book they place their faith in. Not all who read the Bible will accept what it teaches and some like yourself have chosen to view it as a work of fiction and a poor one at that. Clearly, by your statement that you have read other religious texts, that you are seeking God or at the very least what the purpose of this life is. I don't believe for a second that you read the Bible expecting it to be a great work of fiction, with interweaving plot lines, extraordinary character development, etc. I do believe that you read the Bible with the mindset that it is a work of pure fiction. I suggest you read it again with an open mind. And when you're done with that read it again from the perspective of the Bible being a historical document. Talk to those who have read this book and discuss it with your friends and see what they think. Talk with those who have dedicated their lives to following this book's tenets and see if they have some insight. And there is a ton of other material that discusses the authenticity, or lack thereof, of this particular work that you could also consult. You might come to find that you've missed something very important on your initial reading. Or perhaps not.