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85 of 94 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Will Many Be Saved, November 15, 2012
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This review is from: Will Many Be Saved?: What Vatican II Actually Teaches and Its Implications for the New Evangelization (Paperback)
Dr. Ralph Martin has written the best commentary on the Vatican II documents since those documents were published. He explains in great detail that the teaching of Vatican II on hell has not changed because it's right there in Lumen Gentium; for example, page 26: "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." The doctrine has developed to consider the salvation of those who never have a chance to hear the gospel, but it has not been abolished by official Church teaching.

So why has it gone away? Because of the speculations of Jesuits Karl Rahner, Richard McBrien, and Hans Urs von Balthasar and their hope that all might be saved. Their theology took the population by storm, dismissing almost 2000 years of constant theological and magisterial teaching that it is likely that the majority of the human race will be lost. "This is the view of Irenaeus, Basil, Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Augustine, Aquinas, Canisius, and Bellarmine, as well as many others" (p. 14).

As a result of the Iron Curtain coming down on hell, evangelization since Vatican II has lost its appeal. Modern popes and others have stressed the joy of belonging to the Church. But that is in stark contrast to the traditional focus on the eternal consequences that rest on the acceptance or rejection of the gospel that motivated almost two thousand years of missionary activity.

Reading Martin's book gives renewed hope to Catholics like me that there are solid reasons for converting or reverting to Catholicism, not just some fuzzy, feel-good, take-it-or-leave-it (mostly leave-it) attitude among so many for the past 50 years.
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Showing 1-8 of 8 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Mar 30, 2013 2:42:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 30, 2013 2:43:17 PM PDT
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 30, 2013 8:06:03 PM PDT
Absolutely, Private Joker, the evangelicals seem to be very happy, happier than many Catholics. But I wonder what has made them that way. It's not necessarily because they have found truth. They don't agree on what truth is. They believe that they are saved and nothing can damn them once they have accepted the Lord as their Savior.

That is called presumption in the Catholic Catechism. Maybe happy is not what life is about although living as though one hopes to be saved at any moment is comforting. It's not easy, however. Dr. Martin's book is about the fact that the majority of the human race has rejected the plan of salvation that Jesus offers through His Church. That would include evangelicals whose teaching is quite new in the grand scheme of things.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2013 6:05:55 AM PDT
Terms like saved, born-again and receiving Christ are Biblical, first-century concepts. Believers (like Paul) who prayed in Tongues, saw the sick healed and demons cast out should be the norm, not some ideal that the modern church explains away with theology that gets us off the hook today. If you dig deep in the early church writings, beyond the quotes of several fathers that seem to support modern CCC doctrines, you will find that this was also the case in the early church.

When teens are "confirmed," they often rush home to play video games or go off to their sports practice as if nothing has happened. When born-again believers are filled with the Holy Spirit, they pray in tongues and give glory to God. They are empowered to witness and have a deeper love for God, just like we see in Acts. This is not history or doctrine but real life experience I speak of.

As for new teachings, many doctrines the Catholic Church holds dear were not set forth until long after the Protestant Reformation. For example:

1950- Assumption of Mary
1870- Papal Infallibility
1854- Immaculate Conception

Anyway, I appreciate your intelligent and thoughtful comments and forgive me if this has sounded like an argument. A review post was not the appropriate forum for my long-winded commentary! I just say, seek Jesus with your heart and see what happens.

Happy Easter!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2013 9:08:43 PM PDT
jmm095454 says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

Posted on Nov 29, 2013 7:29:10 AM PST
GrandProf says:
The argument that to be saved you must be Catholic is not supported. We can look at four different types of evidence, Pope Francis's recent teaching Evangelii Gaudium, the importance of conscience stated by john Henry Newman on Conscience first, then the Pope, the opinion of a most beloved Saint, Padre Pio, and The Apostle Paul in Romans 2.
1. From Evangelii Gaudium Non-Christians are called to faithfulness to their own consciences

"254. Non-Christians, by God's gracious initiative, when they are faithful to their own consciences, can live "justified by the grace of God",[199] and thus be "associated to the paschal mystery of Jesus Christ".[200] But due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace, God's working in them tends to produce signs and rites, sacred expressions which in turn bring others to a communitarian experience of journeying towards God.[201] While these lack the meaning and efficacy of the sacraments instituted by Christ, they can be channels which the Holy Spirit raises up in order to liberate non-Christians from atheistic immanentism or from purely individual religious experiences. The same Spirit everywhere brings forth various forms of practical wisdom which help people to bear suffering and to live in greater peace and harmony. As Christians, we can also benefit from these treasures built up over many centuries, which can help us better to live our own beliefs."
2. On John Henry Newman's toast to conscience first then the Pope see http://www.catholictranscript.org/editorials/3018-to-conscience-first.html

3. For Padre Pio's thinking on salvation
"I believe that not a great number of souls go to hell.
God loves us so much. He formed us at his image. God loves us beyond understanding.
And it is my belief that when we have passed from the consciousness of the world,
when we appear to be dead, God, before He judges us, will give us
a chance to see and understand what sin really is.
And if we understand it properly, how could we fail to repent?" see http://caccioppoli.com/Close%20encounters%20of%20Padre%20Pio%20with%20deceased%20souls%20in%20Purgatory,%20Guardian%20Angel,%20devil.%20His%20own%20words%20on%20temptation,%20virtues,%20life..html

4. Romans 2:14, "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" - See more at: http://www.access-jesus.com/Romans/Romans_2#sthash.zcfp60Lb.dpuf

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2013 9:38:28 PM PST
jmm095454 says:
Great post GRANDPROF

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 11, 2013 5:28:42 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 11, 2013 5:29:54 AM PST
You are correct Sharelle.

I returned to the Catholic Church this year, following the outpouring of many graces that made it clear this was HIS church and where I needed to be.

Outside the church is confusion and backbiting, not the truth Jesus promised when he said the Holy Spirit would guide and lead us.

Thanks be to God.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 22, 2014 9:59:22 AM PDT
I'm a convert from Protestantism (Methodist), Unity School of Christianity, various new age nonsenses, and Buddhism. And may I say Thanks be to God for bringing me to the Catholic Church! Welcome back, Private Joker! I love Holy Mother Church, my true home, and it's true what they say: there really is no place like home!
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