Customer Review

21 of 27 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent Book, June 30, 2010
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This review is from: Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution (Paperback)
I have googled like crazy to find reviews for this book. It is astonishing how many people berate Mr. Behe and the logic that he presents in this book while at the same offering no scientific counter arguments to dispute his claims. Most reviews simply say something like, "Behe makes the classic creationist argument that things are too complex, so God must have done it. This book is essentially just more IC propoganda," or "Behe sounds convincing, but ultimately there is no basis for his claims," and so on. I have read whole pages full of these types of reviews and have yet to find someone actually using a scientific theory or scenario to prove even ONE of Mr. Behe's assertions wrong!

I found the book very solid on many points. His logic and arguments are not strewn with a bunch of strange contortions or psychological backflips. Just simple, sound thought processes that anyone can understand. The many descriptions of molecular biological processes are intricate, lively, enjoyable to read and yet real, serious science. The scientific facts themselves are so extremely fascinating to me. Who could have thought such an incredible world lives within each of us?

A great book and a fun read! Enjoy!
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Tracked by 2 customers

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Showing 1-5 of 5 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jul 10, 2010 7:57:24 PM PDT
K. D. Jones says:
I really don't mean to be as caustic as I sound. I apologize for what appears to be rude, my guess is that you DON'T deserve it, personally, and if you did, I wouldn't be one to judge. I'm only responding to ideas and undercurrents. Which, I admit, irritate me enormously.

"I have read whole pages full of these types of reviews and have yet to find someone actually using a scientific theory or scenario to prove even ONE of Mr. Behe's assertions wrong! "
You have searched very, very carefully indeed. So carefully, in fact, that you did not find anything you did not want to find.
Google any of these: "behe refute" "behe refuted" "behe refutation" "behe wrong protiens" "behe flagellum evolution." You'll find LOTS of what you aren't looking for, if you're willing to notice it, AND wade through some ideas and explanations that aren't "simple." That's just a start.
"Just simple, sound processes anyone can understand." This is the best part. If it's real, anyone should get it. If you have to sweat, and think, and risk, and persevere to "understand," then what you "understand" can't be the truth. Right? THAT'S the kind of "irreducible complexity" this whole thing comes down to, really. Laziness. Oh, and fear of real argument, and, very, very often (though not necessarily here) massive self-righteousness and protection of an intellectually comfortable "faith." (Which is sometimes and thankfully not always indicative of a MORALLY comfortable faith.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 11, 2010 7:26:45 AM PDT
Eric says:
I have again queried google using your suggested criteria. Yes, I did find a lot of articles.....with the same information that I had mentioned in my original review of this book. I was indeed hopeful that I would discover more, as you suggested I would, but alas I was again disappointed by critics with even the most prestigious credentials. I am still reading many articles with things like, "As we all know, Darwin has already smashed the ideology of ID long ago", and "Behe is completely unscientific", blah blah blah. What I still fail to find is even one article that will attempt to undertake the task of refuting Mr. Behe's assertions with an actual step by step evolutionary sequence for the emergence of irreducibly complex systems (such as the flagellar motor). Please direct me to one of these articles as I am very interested in this topic and you apparently are privy to a plethora of them.

" 'Just simple, sound processes anyone can understand.' This is the best part. If it's real, anyone should get it. If you have to sweat, and think, and risk, and persevere to 'understand,' then what you 'understand' can't be the truth."

Please direct me to an article outlining the step by step evolution of even one of the system's mentioned in Mr. Behe's book that does not require the reader to "sweat and think and risk and persevere" to understand. I would be more than happy to read such a work.

Thank you for your critique of my review :)

Posted on Jul 14, 2010 11:06:20 PM PDT
ovocledidin-17 vs "Irreducible Complexity"
You can Google ( slashdot ovocledidin ) to find the top hit, the post made to slashdot.org on 2010-July-15-2am, "The Chicken May Have Come Before the Egg". Linked to is a British article describing the intricate mechanism which forms an eggshell. Behe-wise it's the "Conceptual Precursor" vs "Physical Precursor" mantra which comes to mind. Lacking this description of the mechanism, one might imagine an eggshell forming kind of like kids make castles out of sand, but the actual mechanism is vastly more sophisticated than this, Irreducible Complexity indeed.

Posted on Jan 14, 2011 9:20:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 14, 2011 9:25:05 PM PST
I have to second Jones: the author of the review is searching blind by confirmation bias. Look up "Irreducible Complexity and Michael Behe" on the Talk Origins organization website (not to be confused with "True Origins" a creationist site). This page is a list of about a dozen linked articles which counter Behe's claims.

Another website which scrutinizes the book is Talkdesign dot org. Check "Evolving Immunity
A Response to Chapter 6 of Darwin's Black Box" as a lengthy and detailed treatment.

Eric should also be aware of one other thing. Some of Behe's arguments are matters of logical fallacy, which do not require the opponent to counter with an entire scientific theory, or even anything from biology at all, but simply with a counter logic.

Posted on Aug 25, 2012 8:02:52 AM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Aug 14, 2013 12:15:05 PM PDT]
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