6 of 15 people found the following review helpful
Good stats but misses the point,
This review is from: Already Gone: Why your kids will quit church and what you can do to stop it (Paperback)
I'll go directly to the point: Many young people will leave the church once they realize that Ken Ham's pseudo-science and dependence upon Christian traditions over what the Bible actually says collapses----once they learn more about the Bible and more about the science.''
Imagine being told by your church from your earliest memories that 2+2=5. Eventually you will learn enough about mathematics to know that 2+2=5 is nonsense. Unfortunately, you may also continue to believe Ken Ham's claims that "If you believe the Bible, you will believe what I tell you about the Bible. If you don't, you must reject the Bible. You can't believe both modern mathematics and the Bible."
That is the kind of false dichotomy which Ken Ham and other Young Earth Creationists have imposed upon the church. Fortunately, many will realize that the Bible can remain truthful even when Ken Ham does not. But many will reject the Bible when they are old enough to reject Ken Ham's pseudoscience, and that is the great tragedy. Like the Pharisees of Jesus' day, there are many who love to impose their own cherished traditions upon the Bible.
I'm sick of hearing "The theory of evolution causes our young people to leave the church and become atheists." Bologna. Ken Ham is a major contributor to the problem. Praise God for his creation, including the evolutionary processes which adapt life to new environments and diversify the biosphere. Indeed, evolution is among God's most intelligent designs in all creation.
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Showing 1-7 of 7 posts in this discussion
Initial post: May 8, 2012 11:52:13 AM PDT
Mark Smith says:
Learns Online...if God didn't create the world as the Bible says, why would I believe Jesus died for my sins? Did He? More importantly, did He rise from the dead and ascend into heaven? If He didn't you have serious problems? If you think He did how do you know?
BTW, without a literal understanding of Genesis 1-3, what is sin? Why any need for Jesus at all?
In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2012 7:20:55 PM PDT
Mark Smith wrote:
>Learns Online...if God didn't create the world as the Bible says,
Who said that God didn't create the world as the Bible says?
I have no problem with what the Bible says---especially after a lifetime studying it, lecturing on it, writing commentary, and translating the Bible. My problem is with many of the man-made traditions imposed upon the Bible. Instead of believing what tradition SAY about the Bible, I prefer what the Bible actually says.
> why would I believe Jesus died for my sins?
I don't know. I have no idea what your reasons are. (I only know my own reasons.) But your post makes no connection between the salvific work of Christ and Genesis. So you will have to be more specific.
Did he what? And again, we were talking about origins.
> More importantly, did He rise from the dead and ascend into heaven?
You aren't making any sense. If you want to relate Christ to one of your traditions about the Bible which you appear to be assuming that I do not hold, you'll have to be a lot more specific.
>If He didn't you have serious problems?
Are you trying to say that any Bible-believing follower of Jesus Christ who doesn't hold your particular set of traditions is hell bound? That very common forum post is getting old. Tell me where Christ taught that your particular set of beliefs about origins was necessary for salvation. When/where did a particular origins hypothesis become part of the Gospel message?
> If you think He did how do you know?
How do I know what? Until you clarify how your salvation doctrine relates to your beliefs about Genesis, I can't help you.
>BTW, without a literal understanding of Genesis 1-3, what is sin?
1) Which of the many "literal understandings of Genesis" are you talking about? (You sound like yet another Pharisee who believes that his and only his interpretations of scripture are valid. Your cherished traditions may give you comfort but I'm much more interested in what the Bible actually says.)
2) Sin exists regardless of whether someone even knows that the Book of Genesis exists. I've dealt with many Bible translations projects which were limited to the New Testament or even just the book of John or less. Yet, the people of that language group knew about sin and were reached with the Gospel. So I'm not clear on why you think your particular view of Genesis is necessary for an understanding of "What is sin?" and for salvation itself.
>Why any need for Jesus at all?
Exactly what is it that you are trying to figure out?
In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2012 8:20:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 8, 2012 8:22:27 PM PDT
Mark Smith says:
Since you seem to be pretty dense (or more likely just obnoxious), let me make it simple. If physical death is the way of the universe, if pain, suffering, sickness and violence occurred before Adam (or a first evolved primate of the homo sapiens variety if you prefer). Why is there any need for Jesus?
In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012 2:57:16 PM PDT
Despite your childish insults [believe me, I don't visit these forums every day, and you probably were counting on that absence], I just wrote an article on that topic for the Bible.and.Science.Forum.
You have confused human death (resulting from sin) with animal death. HADAM was placed in a special "preserve" called a garden in Eden. Death was prevented apparently by the fruit of the Tree of Life. Once HADAM sinned, he was banned from that preserve and had to live in a world of death and disease, which had existed all along. (No scripture says that animal death did not exist before the fall.)
You ask why there is any need for Jesus, I would have thought you would have understood that human SIN accounted for the need for Jesus. [Talk about "pretty dense".]
If you remain confused, contact me at the forum address; just add Gmail .com to the domain. If I don't hear from you, I will assume that you really didn't want answers.
Posted on Jul 12, 2012 4:07:58 PM PDT
Yes, it appears that Mark Smith had no interest in getting answers to his questions.
No surprise there.
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 15, 2013 8:57:03 AM PDT
Medieval Lady says:
The importance of the belief in the resurrection of Christ to Christianity is related quite clearly in Paul's letter to the the Romans I think. That's in the Bible not 'Christian tradition' surely?
Posted on Oct 9, 2013 5:29:52 PM PDT
K. Scott Schaeffer says:
Since you were unimpressed with what Ken Ham had to say, I thought that perhaps you would prefer to review a book I just posted on Amazon called, "Where the Bible Contradicts Creationists: How a literal reading of every creation verse refutes young earth geology, redefines the Adan and Eve story, and supports the science of evolution and an old universe."
I'm looking for people to post reviews on this book, since that helps with sales. It's only $2.99 to download, but if you prefer a free copy, I'll be running a free Kindle download promotion Oct. 27th-31st on Amazon. If you prefer a print version, I will publish one soon as well.
Thank you for your consideration.
,K Scott Schaeffer
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