27 of 30 people found the following review helpful:
The best and most comprehensive guide to watches.
This giant latest edition (19th) contains over 1,100 pages and covers over 10,000 watches. 7,500 are illustrated. It provides a wealth of information useful to the novice or professional collector or dealer. Not only is it a price guide, but it has a huge amount of information, including grading, how a watch works, how to date a watch, history, coding and much, much...
104 of 109 people found the following review helpful:
Most Popular Watch Price Guide - Still Flawed But Improving
In my review of last year's edition of this annual price guide, I was only willing to give it two stars. While that may seem brutal for what is clearly a lot of compiled information, keep in mind that most of this data has evolved over a twenty-year collection process, and each new year is now largely a product of editing and tweaking the previous volume. However, I have...
In my review of last year's edition of this annual price guide, I was only willing to give it two stars. While that may seem brutal for what is clearly a lot of compiled information, keep in mind that most of this data has evolved over a twenty-year collection process, and each new year is now largely a product of editing and tweaking the previous volume. However, I have decided to raise my rating for this year's edition by one star because even a cursory overview reveals that the effort put in since the last volume was not nearly so minimal as the previous 2000 version.
There are not a lot of new additions in the way of specific models or grades, and this still remains a significant weakness of this guide. To the newcomer, it appears to cover a vast array of models and grades, but to the experienced collector, it is by no means near the definitive encyclopedia of watches. Even in its strongest area, American pocket watches, it continues to overlook a considerable number of grades, leaving the reader to make lump assumptions about prices of watches overlooked. The same comments apply to wristwatches, where it might have been better to leave well documented names completely out (such as Rolex or Patek) since they are better represented with great detail in other books. Does this matter? Just look at the number of "rare", "scarce", bogus and absurd claims on some Internet watch ads, and the answer should obvious: such claims would not survive the light of day were this guide truly complete.
But for the many grades that are in the book, both pocket and wrist, it appears the authors have awakened to the reality of the market: a booming economy has been driving prices ever upward, particularly for collectibles. And whether the marketplace is cable TV, Internet auctions, or watch marts, the reality of any market is constant: prices are set by a willing seller and ready buyer who agree on money. To deny the prices that are have been paid with repetition on Internet auctions is naive at best. A sale is a sale, and a collection of sales is the marketplace. Pretending that the majority of sales (which today is clearly Internet auctions) does not represent the market is absolutely ludicrous.
So with the 2001 edition, a review of item after item in comparison to the 2000 version shows almost unilateral increases, which indeed reflects today's expanded market: no increase in supply, a significant increase in demand, and an enhanced marketplace to help keep things from simply skyrocketing. Revel in the price growth -- your collection should be worth more as time goes by, particularly in a strong economy. And price guides should reflect this rise. Finally, with this edition, I can say the guide is catching up. And it appears to have done so without defaulting to some simple formula. Important and popular watches show the greater increases, and this is reality.
Will this publication ever be perfect? Perhaps one day. In Ehrhardt & Meggers American Pocket Watches Identification and Price Guide, an extensive cataloging of grades and variations far beyond the Shugart, et al guide is presented. But it was in some ways its own undoing. It is nearly impossible to keep tabs on every watch sale down to the fine details and thus produce a truly definitive price guide each and every year. The labor would be staggering. But as sales continue to occur on the Web in far greater proportion to any other venue, and web crawling software becomes more sophisticated, it seems that a combination of Ehrhardt's grade and variant detail with Shugart's annual pricing may yet come. When it does with real time price, a veritable commodities market ticker for watches, I am ready to award all five stars. This should, after all, be the ultimate goal even if it seems a bit unrealistic at the moment.
Until then, I confess this is a book you really can't survive without in this hobby. It is the standard price reference when in doubt, and a particularly valuable asset to newcomers who are not yet familiar with prices for most watches. It is wise to be aware of its shortcomings, yet for all the missing grades, at least the prices are now more realistic. And should the market fall, I would hope the guide keeps track with the whole of the marketplace and reflect the ongoing reality, subject to the unfortunate constraints of annual updates and publications delays.
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The mere fact that this guide is now in its 20th year is evidence of its popularity. It is unquestionably the most successful guide of its kind. Much of that success lies in its clear if sometimes oversimplified listings that make it easy for rank beginners to find the majority of popular watches, and the sheer volume of entries. I would rate the pocket watch section over the wrist watch listing for detail (e.g., coverage for high-end watches like Patek, Rolex and others is superficial and buyers should rely on some other book), but both are adequate for the most popular material.
However, evidence is that most of the prices are not updated annually, and publishing deadlines make the few updates old when fresh off the press. Some prices simply remain untouched for years when auction and other sales clearly show significant changes (generally increases). I wonder how many of the scarcer and "by-the-book-mint" watches the authors would be willing to sell from their collections for the prices shown?
Some historical information, such as the production dates and serial numbers are questionable. The section on Aurora watches is clearly at odds with documented factory records despite fresh editing done to that information in the 2000 edition. And where South Bend individual grades are priced in detail, Auroras are lumped into general groups -- a sad oversight, since many of those grades are very scarce (multi-stars). Other rather common grades from popular makers are unexplainably missing amid a hit-and-miss grade list.
The price grading system is dramatically skewed to the unobtainable, making one minute flaw justification to slash the price below half of its near-mint state (which is mint minus a box, yet most watches likely never had factory boxes). Certainly mint watches deserve a premium, but the book's definition of mint is toward the absurd, and extra fine is nearly unobtainable. The result is that most seller's simply redefine the grades. It would be better if the author would make that adjustment, which would also put prices in line.
And the insistance that all watches still be in their original cases? That likelihood vanished sometime during the Great Depression, when even a gold-filled case could be swapped for silveriod to pay back a few dollars, never mind how many solid gold cases vanished into pawn shops. The presence of other screw marks in the back of a case for anything short of a perfect mint watch is closely akin to the flap over used postage stamps mounted in albums with hinges: much ado about nothing.
Finally, the foreign pocket watch section has only about 75 maker's price lists, and they are highly generalized. While something is better than nothing, perhaps this guide has become too long in the tooth, relying on minor annual tune-ups when a complete overhaul is due. But it sells, makes money, and there is no incentive to enter a new effort. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend anything better, except to get out and see the real market for yourself.
In the meantime, treat it as a general guide, but seldom if ever the final answer - one that even in it newest release is actually behind except for items that have not changed prices in years (not many of those). Even the generalized empty case prices show no adjustment for gold market or demand, and can sit unchaged from one edition to the next. That should be your first clue something is amiss.
Perhaps one problem here is the modern world of Internet auctions, which appear to be totally ignored as a basis for market sales histories. It would additionaly explain why this guide increasingly becomes outdated, even if it is published each year, having failed to see a whole new arena of buyers and sellers. Being the only one of its kind annual guide clearly accounts for most of its success. Perhaps a truly timely price book covering 90% of what is in the market simply is not possible . . . at least not quite yet. When it does appear, I will be first in line for a more accurate reference. Until then, don't make this is your only watch pricebook.
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This giant latest edition (19th) contains over 1,100 pages and covers over 10,000 watches. 7,500 are illustrated. It provides a wealth of information useful to the novice or professional collector or dealer. Not only is it a price guide, but it has a huge amount of information, including grading, how a watch works, how to date a watch, history, coding and much, much more. It has so much data, one wonders how they were able to assemble it all. The volume is really a bargain at its price. Wonderful reference !!
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This item is very detailed and contain a lot of watches in it, but it is not so complete. It did not list any recent models, which was what I was originally looking for. However, it is an excellent guide for antique watches.
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For years I've been recommending this book as the best place for a beginner to start. The original text is 20 years old and was originally written for a pocket watch price guide. The information in the front part of the book is therefore written on pocket watches, however this general information ("how a watch works, the history of watchmaking, etc) is equally applicable to wrist watches. This portion of the text is rich in information that all collectors of vintage timepieces will find useful.
The price guide portion of the book can be divided into two main sections. Pocket watch evaluations are very detailed with manufacturer histories of most of the major American makers. The vast majority of American pocket watches can be found in this price guide.
The wrist watch section is an alphabetical listing of many examples collectible vintage wrist watches. The quality of the images in this section ranges from poor to acceptable. There are many factual errors concerning model names, case materials, etc. Pricing bears little resemblance to current market conditions.
All in all, a must for the vintage watch collector's library - as long as you recognize the limitations.
Don Baker @ finertimes.com
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The Complete Price Guide to Watches is always the standard guide most often used by pocket watch and wrist watch collectors. As a military timepiece collector, I use the price guide to help identify type and date of manufacture.
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the M***osoft of watch price guides, or the 2.4 pound gorilla lurking in my watch briefcase- call it what you may, but as one can see by the numerous reviews below, the Complete Guide never fails to elicit opinions both positive and negative from watch collectors. All criticisms are valid, yet this reader always finds something interesting between the covers of this book, and whenever I am looking for information about relative values of watches, this is where I usually first look. Until a truly up-to-date price guide, that reflects the reality of ALL markets is created by some enterprising individuals (any watch collectors at Google??), this is the resource many will turn to first. One suggestion: I for one would support a 10 to 15 dollar increase on the retail price of this guide if that would enable the author to hire the services of a professional editor who could then clean up the numerous errors and redundancies present in this guide, which are well documented, by the way.
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A very comprehensible book on watches, particularly pocket watches. With this book growing bigger every year, I think that it would be better if they split it up and have three volumes. One exclusively for pocket watches, another for mechanical wristwatches, and start a new one for quartz wristwatches.
The book has a great deal of information about watches...the history, how they work, pictures of the movements, glossary, and so much more. The problem is that the print is so small that you really need a magnifying glass to prevent straining your eyes.
My disappointments were that the book only contains listings for the more valuable watches and hardly anything of the more common variety. Absent were the quartz watches (at least I couldn't find any). On the wristwatches, the listings for ladies watches were very small in comparison to men's watches. I didn't like the smaller format of the book...it should be much larger.
My compliments were that the book was put together very well with excellent printing and binding. For the wealth of information contained in it, the price is a real bargain. A lot of hard work went into compiling all the information, particularly the pricing of the watches. It is like the Blue Book for Used Cars, except it is for watches.
This book is definitely worth the price. If you are a buyer/seller of watches, this is a `must-have' book.
As with all things, it continues to grow and improve. They have a lot of areas that can be improved as they continue to grow.
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There's an old adage, "He who has the gold, makes the rules."
A point that no one who has reviewed this book has proffered, is that Shugart OWNS the business that publishes his book and price listings as well as buys, sells, and trades vintage watches that are listed in his 'Price Guide'. As a serious collector, things like overall condition for watch cases, dials, movements, etc. are, in my experience, VERY subjective, whether he defines the parameters or not. Just ask anyone who has purchased a vintage watch on Ebay and returned it because the condition was not as it was described. As for new price listings, I have to take their word that there are, I believe they claim, '10,000' new prices for the 2003 edition. But, are these prices based upon a true market value, or some nebulous value that Shugart's elected to publish?
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Specialised appeal, but invaluable for collectors and dealers. Too much reference to pocket watches and American watches for my taste. Insufficient details on recent models also, but minor gripes for such a solid reference.
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