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confused about the Elder wand

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Showing 1-25 of 40 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jul 22, 2007 8:02:11 PM PDT
She Rah says:
Can someone please explain the confusion about the wands at the end for me? Why was Draco the rightful owner? I understand why the wand did not work for V but who had the wand in the final scene w V? Harry made it sound like he had the wand. Please help!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2007 8:05:06 PM PDT
Ms. Cheng says:
draco was the rightful owner because he had disarmed dumbledore in order of the phoenix, thus "defeating" him. snape killed dumbledore but he was already disarmed so it recognized draco, not snape as the rightful owner. then harry beat draco so the wand ended up truly belonging to him instead of lord v and thus the wand would not work against harry.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2007 8:07:05 PM PDT
She Rah says:
Thanks, that helps a lot. It was pretty muddy trying to decipher that while reading. I can't believe V had the patience to listen to all of the explanation from Harry.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2007 8:46:40 PM PDT
L. Reynoso says:
As I read the scene when Harry and V were facing off, i felt disappointed. I felt she wrote it for the movie. you know in the movies where in the final battle between good and evil, one side (usually the evil side, though in this case it was the good side) has to have this long drawn out explanation of their plans.... and then to make it even more movie like... they are walking around in a perfect circle as they are facing each other and Harry is talking... disappointing...

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2007 8:47:10 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 22, 2007 8:49:32 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 2:07:02 AM PDT
OrganicMango says:
What bothers me is that Harry didn't actually win the Elder Wand from Draco - he got Draco's regular wand - right? The Elder wand may have been Draco's, but it was located with Dumbledore's corpse . . . . so does a person just have to have victory over another person - regardless of which wand is used or won over - to have a right to any of their wands? A little convoluted and manufactured.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 4:57:22 AM PDT
She Rah says:
That was my confusion - exactly who had possession of the Elder Wand? I am guessing V had it but since he did not win it, Harry was more powerful when they cast their last spells at each other causing V's spell to backfire on him yet again? Hope the screen writers are more clear when they make the movie.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 7:00:49 AM PDT
I had exactly the same question. Draco never gets possession of the Elder Wand, even if he is the "rightful" owner...
Wish JKR could clear this puzzle for me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 7:31:54 AM PDT
T. Weinhold says:
Draco is the master of the wand because he disarmed DD. But he never actually gets possession of the wand. Then Harry disarms Draco at Malfoy Manor so the Elder wand cannot be Draco's anymore because he has been beaten. Harry is now master of the wand. When they cast their spells it's almost like the twin cores thing again. But both wands are now Harry's, so the Elder wand won't kill him. Instead it flies up and Harry grabs it. Harry now has possession of the wand that he has actually been master of for a few weeks.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 8:04:21 AM PDT
Cybergal says:
What T. Weinhold's writes is exactly how I understood it, BUT..
I was still bugged (as L. Kang points out) by why Harry should become master of the elder wand after disarming Draco of his regular wand..

If the elder wand will change masters as soon as its current master is 'defeated' by a simple disarmament, regardless of whether the wand was in their possession at the time or not, then I see it as highly unlikely that Harry will remain master of the elder wand until he dies a 'natural death' so that it's power will be broken (as he says at the end of the final chapter). All it would take would be for any wizard to 'disarm' Harry of his own wand at any point in his life, maybe even just in horse-play, for the elder wand that he's putting back in DD's grave to switch masters again!

I can swallow the wand switching to Draco after DD's death for being the one who actually disarmed DD first, but not for the wand to switch to Harry for disarming him when he never died as a result, and more importantly when he didn't even have the wand at the time! Too contrived.
perhaps it's a loophole for further stories..?!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 8:31:12 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 23, 2007 8:40:29 AM PDT
90UFO says:
I was wondering about why Harry is Elder Wand's master too. My explanation is: The Elder Wand only recognize the wand (Draco's wand) that had beaten itself, not who is holding the wand (Draco or Harry). Harry is holding Draco's wand, so the Elder wand is subbodinate to Draco's wand, i.e. to Harry.

yet, when DD trying to explain why Harry's Phoenix core can turn itself and regurgitated a spell to attack Voldy, his theory meant Wand DO recoginize its opponent's face, not the opponent's wand. Confused... what if someone used a polyjuice potion... ;-)

As to Avada Kedavra backfire again? I was surprised to see Volddy being finished without a duel. but no complaints.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 23, 2007 9:54:28 AM PDT
My suspicion is that the Elder Wand doesn't recognize Harry as its master, but neither does it recognize Voldemort in that role. It has already been established earlier that when someone other than its master wields a wand its power is reduced. Therefore, because Harry has properly "won" Draco's wand, it is simply more powerful under those particular circumstances (master vs. non-master), even though the Elder Wand would normally be able to channel more power.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2007 5:54:45 AM PDT
Pia Sez says:
Ok so who's wand did Voldy take out of DD's hands in his tomb, if DD's wand was taken by Draco???

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2007 1:49:06 PM PDT
Okay, so here's my theory.

One wizard to one wand.

Wands are highly territorial, they own their owner, thus the wand that Harry got from Draco at the Malfoy's was never Draco's wand. Once Draco won the Elder Wand from Dumbledore that was his wand, whether he used another for awhile or not (perhaps JKR is trying to work this out during the book with Harry's wand difficulties.) Thus, when Harry disarmed Draco, the disarm actually applies itself not to the physical wand but to the "owning" wand. Therefore, the Elder Wand is Harry's from that point on, even if the physical wand itself is in the hands of another.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 25, 2007 8:16:04 PM PDT
What I didn't understand is that the person with the Elder Wand is supposed to be unbeatable, yet Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in order to become its owner. Also, Draco never beat Dumbledore in order to become the new owner of the wand. In Half Blood Prince Draco tell Dumbledore that he is at his mercy,and Dumbledore replies that it is actually HIS mercy that was controlling the situation. So, Dumbledore really wasn't defeated at all. He was giving his life for "the greater good," (although he was already dying.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2007 12:24:25 AM PDT
Draco never took Dumbledore's wand. After snape killed him as prearanged, snape ran draco off. the wand is collected up and buried with Dumbledore. Draco however now has mastery of the wand by virtue of his disarming of Dumbledore (beating him) ina fight.

Later, when Harry beats Draco in a duel, the mastery of the Elder Wand passes to Harry by virtue of Harry beating the Wand's master. Defeating the actual wand itself is not important, just its current master for mastery of the wand's mastery to be transferred.

To work at its utmost, as Mr Olivander says, a wand must be taken by force from its current master. thus the elder wand goes from Grundlewald to Dumbledore to Draco to Harry and not to Snape or Voldemort.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 27, 2007 6:07:41 PM PDT
Another website post puts forth the idea that when Voldemort and Harry are fighting at the end of Book 7, the Elder Wand recognizes Draco's wand as the one that defeated it and returns to Harry at that point. I think that's a pretty logical explanation. The only part I haven't verified is to make sure it was still Draco's wand that Harry was using at that point. I believe it was, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 28, 2007 9:33:40 AM PDT
A Ray says:
Voldemort had the wand, but he was not its rightful master. In Half Blood Prince, Draco disarmed Dumbledore (master of the Elder Wand) in the final scene, making him the legitimate master of the elder wand. When Harry disarmed Draco in Deathly Hallows, that made hime the new master, so long as the elder wand new that Draco had been disarmed, which apparently it did.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 30, 2007 4:41:13 PM PDT
I hear you, this is where I get confused. How did DD beat Grindelwald if he has the unbeatable wand? And even before that the story shows how Grindelwald steals the wand from Gregorovitch. I can't remember completely but he might stun Gregor after stealing the wand so does that pass on the power to him eventhough the wandmaker had already lost the wand and we can presume was defenseless?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 30, 2007 9:41:08 PM PDT
Truthfully, I don't question why she wrote the book this way (that you simply must have victory over the other person) but truthfully, does it really matter? Truthfully, I would find books rather redundant and boring if they explained every little detail of everything in the book... you have to figure some things out on your own, or what's the point? lol

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 31, 2007 10:41:56 AM PDT
That's a good point. If all you have to do to win a wand is disarm someone, than all the kids practicing the disarming charm would then be "master" of each other's wands. I can only assume that you become master after a disarm if the person then dies.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 1, 2007 2:06:14 PM PDT
Excerpt from MSNBC

Rowling said her American editor suggested the moment when Harry conquers Draco should be more dramatic.

"But, no, I really wanted, very consciously, for the history of the wizarding world to hinge on this moment where two teenage boys have a physical [fight]. They don't even do it by magic," Rowling said.

"That sort of puts all of Voldemort's and Dumbledore's grandiose plans in their place, doesn't it? You just can't plan that well, that something can go wrong and it went wrong ... It went wrong because Harry managed to pull this wand out of Draco's grip.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 1, 2007 2:18:26 PM PDT
I think it is taken to literally. The issue is to conquer the other person. Snape would not have been the master of the Elder Wand because the death was pre-arranged. And they say that in the book. So the physicalities of disarming and arming has little to do with how the allegiance is changed. It is about conquering the other person. And changing the allegiance of your magical tools.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 1, 2007 9:22:30 PM PDT
J. Blakeney says:
i think what happened is when malfoy disarmed dumbledore he won the wand but didn't know about it and left the wand to be buried with dumbledore then when harry disarmed malfoy the wand just knew it was won by harry

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 29, 2007 8:22:21 PM PDT
The wands and there masters are magically linked, so that when Draco disarmed Dumbledore in the tower in The Halfblood Prince, Draco AND his wand had mastered Dumbledore AND his elder wand. The elder wand was servant to Draco's wand, of which Harry became the master, when he won it from Draco. So Harry being the new master of Draco's wand made him the master also of the elder wand.
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Discussion in:  Harry Potter forum
Participants:  31
Total posts:  40
Initial post:  Jul 22, 2007
Latest post:  Dec 8, 2007

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