Is Spanking a lovable or harmful form of disipline?

The are many parents and teachers who believe that corporal punishment is necessary for successful child rearing. Is that true? Or is spanking another form of child abuse that leads to damaging consequences?

Before addressing this issue, I sincerely recommend everyone reads "Plain Talk About Spanking" a publication of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education at www.nospank.net/pt2008.htm

I really think it depends on the child, their behavior patterns etc. I'm the type of person who wants to say it isn't ever necessary and it shouldn't be done but.. man I'm not a parent and some kids really are tough to get through too. I think if you don't want to spank you have start with very strong parenting skills from the time of infancy.. and many people do not have the knack and spanking sadly ends up as a last resort, when there is no foundation.

When I grew up we got spanked for everything... did it keep me out of trouble.. no not really in the grand scheme of things.. most of the time I didn't understand exactly why I was being spanked.. I just thought they were hitting me because they were mad at me... I don't see how that's a useful tool for what parenting is truly supposed to do.

Spanking shouldn't be the first level of discipline, but it does have its place.
Spanking isn't abuse. And it should never be done out of anger/frustration. Also it shouldn't be done with anything besides a hand; no boards or belts. And not excessively.

Today too many parents are trying to be their kids' best friend, rather than be their kids' PARENT. I think that mentality causes way more problems than spanking ever has or will.

Great topic.
I dislike seeing screaming yelling kids in the market, or where I shop anywere.
I notice when I see out of control screaming kids, its usually cause the kids are tired, hungry, and should be in bed sleeping. Taking kids out shoping at 8 pm, is crazy.
That said, NO I do not believe in any form of Spanking.

I have raised 2 kids, and have 4 Grandkids.
Being my son is a single parent of 3 kids, that he has raised since they where under 5 yrs.. I can tell you, His Children have NEVER been spanked, but yes they have been yelled at, but not with any abuse, as putting them down.
Kids need good strokes also.

Never has a teacher or anyone said his kids, or mine need discipline.I only got reports how nice my kids are and the same with my Grandkids.
If your polite to others and your kids, they usually do the same thing, and if they don't, you better tell them that is unexceptable behaviour. But don't let your kids be Wusses.

If parents would follow through when they say, No, and not have to keep saying No 10 to 15 times, and then the kid gets his way and is a brat. The kids are out of control and so are the parents.
You can't let the kids be the parent, and the parents become the Kids
There are too many Parents that think if they say No, there kids will not love them!!
I say to the parents , get a freaking life, and grow up, take charge of your home, your children.
It's really scary for little kids to be the parent. Its very insecure for them.

I would Never let any teacher lay a hand on my kids.
What they might think is bad behaviour I might not, and if I did, I would talk to my kids about it. If I think they should be punished, then we will take care of it as a parent. Its not the teachers responsiblity.
I think if a parent has to spank there children, its because there out of control, and the same goes for a Teacher.

My kids went to some privite schools, and a school where the kids and parents voted in the teachers. What was shocking was, The kids asked better question to the teachers then the parents, and if a teacher could not control a class, they where not voted in by the kids to be back the following year.

I think there are too many working parents, divorced parents that have to work, and who suffers! The kids do.
Parents need to spend more time with there kids, and they also need time for them selfs.

You also try to raise your kids to make good choices, and not to repeat there mistakes, and learn from them.
Life is about mistakes for everyone, but lets hope we all do not repeat them.

Maybe some of you parents that spank your kids, should watch the Nanny show on TV.
Those kids are so out of control, I want to smack them, and there parents for letting that happen.
But any responsible parent knows, it just does not work that way, and who wants kids that fear them!
Spanking only brings fear, but really never does any good.
Little kids need consistancy, and follow threw.
You also have to pick what you say no to. You can't say No to everything, and ground your kids.
I have never grounded my kids, that is BS. and a control freak.

Btw , My kids where not little Angels all the time. As teenagers, I now hear about the stuff they did, that I would not like, but all in all, they where great loving responsible kids, and Adults.

No do not spank your kids.

Michael, I spanked my kids and they lived to tell the tale! They were always warned first and if the behavior didn't change they got 3 swats on that padded spot! I was spanked growing up and it was always deserved! It does, IMO, have a place in raising a kid at times. That being said I had one kid that I could always talk and explain things to, from a young age. He got spanked when it was deserved though. The next one was the type you had to smack him to get his attention and then spank him for his misdeed. Both have grown up to be fine, productive men.

Unfortunately Anonymous, you are now a child abuser according to Michael. This is where its funny, its either his way or you're an abuser. Michael you talk so much of other people being open minded yet it seems you have a closed mind yourself. I agree spanking is not a be all end all punishment. But at times it does have a place.

ALL kids try to push boundaries and see what they can get away with. And at times a simple "talking to" or grounding, or even scolding isnt enough to deter that behavior. And while some children can respond and listen well, there are some that cant. I talked beforre about my uncle, they dont believe in spanking their childrne. Their daughter has grown up so far to be a mature, and responsible person. She listens to them, doesnt act up and has respect for other people. Their son however, decided at an early age that he didnt have to listen to mom and dad. They've disciplined him multiple times, but he knows there is no follow through if he just ignores the discipline. He gets grounded, he'll just leave anyways. I'll say it, the kid is a little brat, he treats his parents and most of the other family with no respect. IMO in that sort of instance where other discipline isnt working, then yes, a swat on the butt to show the kid that there ARE going to be consequences is a helpful form of punishment.

Though I know I'm wasting my time even trying to tell you, you'll just go on your "its all abuse and pain makes children serial killers". Let me guess, youre one of those people who support the "everyone gets a medal" sports they're doing at schools now too? We dont want any of our children actually believing they have to work hard to do something or that there *gasp* are actually people that are better at things than other people in the world.

abbyful,

You make some good points, but I wonder if you have taken the time to read "Plain Talk About Spanking" a publication of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education at www.nospank.net/pt2008.htm

Great Cook,

Thank you for your insightful, intelligent and caring comment.

Every parent ought to heed you words of wisdom!

For those of you who didn't fully read my original comment, I took no position. I specifically posed two questions designed to promote an intelligent, productive discussion.

My comment read:

"The are many parents and teachers who believe that corporal punishment is necessary for successful child rearing. Is that true? Or is spanking another form of child abuse that leads to damaging consequences?"

Michael Goldfield,
Yes, I read the article. It's a lot of sensationalism and exaggeration. Spanking will turn you kid into Hitler or Charles Manson? I think not! Children not spanked have a 0% chance of being a felon? I think not!

Yes, kids need loving homes, with structure and support and bounderies. But occasionally they may also need a good swat on the butt! No, not for every little thing, but it does have it's place and time. Some kids may never need a spanking, some kids do. No, it shouldn't be over-used, but it isn't "abuse" either.

Oh yes, you took no sides, yet you posted an obviously biased article with no rebuttal for the other side. This would be like me posing a question about capital punishment and then telling everyone to look at a link that was pro capital punishment before discussing.

I'm sorry, I forget though, you're always right, your sources are always right, and you can never be wrong. Anyone that wants to see exactly how Mr. Goldfield feels about this issue and why he brought up this question should go check out the "You Americans!!" thread. He clearly shows his bias there.

Also, you didnt answer my questions, do you have children? Were you spanked as a child?

LOL Ricky! So be it!! I can carry that load. Mainly because 99% of the spanking was when they were small and at a learning age. As they got older they KNEW what to expect for bad behavior so it appeared less and less. I never had to be embarrassed to take them any where. I've yet to hear the first word from them, that they resented being spanked. Like their Mom, they knew if they "caught it" it was deserved.

Unfortunately this article (www.nospank.net/pt2008.htm ) cites no scientific research about the pros and cons of spanking. It is blatantly biased against spanking, and it even goes so far as to say that children who are spanked are more likely to be victims of sexual predators. That is absolutely ridiculous! It's offensive because it's not true. If you read the actual research, even researchers against spanking (like Dr. Murray Straus) doesn't say that spanked kids will be sexually molested. This "article" is the kind of garbage that gets people confused - no data, just somebody spouting off about their opinion, but calling it "fact."

If you want a balanced opinion, look up a guy named Dr. Robert Larzelere. He is a professor and spanking researcher. He did a study (called a meta-analysis) that looked at the results of all of the spanking studies in the last 20 years. He found that spanking has no long term positive or negative consequences. In other words, it neither harms kids or makes them good citizens. After looking at several hundred spanking studies, he concluded that the primary effect of spanking is to increase how well children listen to their parents. I suppose that could be either good or bad depending on who the parents are. :)

I'm so glad you made that post Jared! It's been my personal opinion for years, that those that are always trying to find the bad in spanking, themselves resented being spanked! Therefore they're crusading to outlaw ANY corporal punishment.

Huge difference between spanking and beating!

Personally, I have no problem with spankings. I was spanked as a child, and I have no issues surrounding it.

Besides, I'm sure I more than deserved it.

Spanking isn't *always* bad .. Some kids don't respond to anything else.. and some parents are capable of giving 3 swats, sitting the kid down, waiting for the child to calm down and then explaining again why they were spanked. If you're going to do it, you should always have that perspective. You should never spank your child when you're truly angry at him/her it can be so scary that any learning that can be had from it just goes out the window.

It is my experience that children who are spanked frequently have a higher instance of being involved in physical altercations... spanking when not done in the proper context can very easily send the message "I'm bigger than you, you did something I didn't like, so it's ok for me to hit you now."

I will NEVER believe spanking is necessary for all children, and I do truly believe that if proper boundries are established in very early childhood (IE strong boundries should already be in place by age 2-3) you most likely will not need to spank your child. Some children are more sensitive than others, and will respond better to talking and guidance, and spanking will only make them afraid of you. Ultimately it's your choice as a parent whether you want your child to respond to you out of love and respect, or out of fear. It's also a parent's responsibility as a parent to know their child as an individual and treat that child accordingly. There are so many parents spending so little time with their children nowadays, however, bonds are not properly formed, so discipline comes through fear, rather than respect and love... I simply can't support that. If you havent taken time to get to know your children, bond with them and establish a loving relationship ... then go spank yourself.

PS.. if you use more than your hand.. it's abuse... don't do it.. If you leave welts bruises and other marks on your child it's abuse.. there is such a thing as taking spanking way too far and it happens way more often than people think.

Agreed, alot of it depends on the mentality of the child. Personally as a kid growing up, when I would do something I knew would get me in trouble I'd weigh the consequences first. If I knew it was something that wasnt a spanking, I honestly normally would go ahead and do whatever it was. I knew then that my parents would only ground me, big whoop.

If I can get a 1250 pound horse to listen to and obey my commands, then I have to let you in on this information. I would never yell at a horse, dog, cat or child. What is the point? They either will ignore you or become fearful, and neither is the repsonse you are looking for. Spanking is also useless in children, although spanking a horse with the end of a lead rope or reins to divert their attention sometimes is mandatory. When your child is acting up and is old enough to determine good and bad and right from wrong, then gently place your hands firmly on the childs shoulders and turn him/her around to face you. Look directly into their eyes; keep their eyes focused on yours. If you lose their eyes, tell them "Look at me!" but don't shout. State your piece; tell them what you want, ask if they understand and then let them go. Treating a kid or an animal with negativity with produce negative results.

And what is the difference between spanking and beating

If you were to "simply" slap someone, they could have you arrested for assault. Assault is a crime. So is stealing. Whether you steal one dollar or $10,000 it's still stealing.

Spanking, whipping or beating are all forms of violence, and fall under the category of corporal punishment.

Spanking a child may not cause physical harm, but it is violent, demeaning, humiliating and confusing. "Why would someone who really loves me want to hit me?"

You can rationalize all you want, but when people need to resort to spanking as a form of disciplining their children, it is because they lack the skills required to be a loving parent!

I seriously doubt that any licensed psychologist, LCSW or psychiatrist would approve of spanking as productive form of discipline.

Conscious or unconscious, spanked children harbor resentment and will find a way to "get even". Maybe it will manifest as cruelty to peers, animals or later in life to their own children.

I suspect that contrary to what many contend on this forum, those who insist that spanking is O.K. are the ones who were spanked as children.

Alan,

No child "deserves" to be assaulted! Not even you.

I do understand the point of the anti-spanking people.. and In a perfect world, where every parent took the time to establish boundries and proper loving bonds with their children it would never be necessary.. but for some reason, there are still some very well intented loving parents that end up with children who simply do not listen, or care about what their parent has to say. There are those kids that, when grounded, simply find some way to sneak out of the house, etc. There are those that apologize and turn around and do the same thing over and over... In some cases it is that last resort to give certain children a wake-up call so to speak.

I won't ever spank my own children, but I will be there from day one, establishing boundaries, and bonds of love with my kids... if a parent wasn't so great at that, at first, yes it is thier fault.. but what are they supposed to do when left with an out of control child? How does one take control back once it has been lost, what do you do in the meantime while trying to re-establish a respectful and loving relationship, to deter an out of control child from dangerous behavior?(not criticising here, I'm asking a serious question and hoping for some insight.)

Do you have kids? Were you spanked?

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Glit,

Your post makes an awful lot of sense.

So, if an inept parent finds his/her child out of control and wishes to deter that child from dangerous or inappropriate behavior, it might be a better choice to seek professional help instead of resorting to spanking which, in effect, would be punishing the child for the parent's inability to be a skillful and effective parent.

No matter how you look at it, the need to spank is a sign of poor parenting.

Several participants in this discussion have indicated that they were spanked but hold no malice or resentment toward their parents. I suspect the resentment is there but well repressed. Unfortunately, repressed feelings have a way of expressing themselves, and more often than not it is in unhealthy ways.

With the exception of self-defense, I question all forms of violence.

And that includes capital punishment which is nothing more than a desire for revenge under the guise of justice.