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Customer Discussions > Kindle forum

Amazon is remote wiping purchased ebooks from Kindles


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Showing 26-50 of 113 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:02:23 PM PDT
SerenityFL says:
Ms. Neverinamillion: Ding! Good question.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:04:01 PM PDT
ps. @tim burson, the OP.

i am sorry if this toxifies your feelings about the dx. it's really not the device's fault. i've had my 2 since february, and i love it more than the day i opened its little shipping carton.

but i also entered into my agreement with amazon thinking: 1. anything that allows me to read more = good. 2. amazon's entire business model re. books being anchored to specific devices rather than people sucks. 2.a. amazon needs to communicate better with its customers. 3. we're in the early stages with this e-ink reader thing. i want it to happen and turn out right; and to have a voice, i needed to have a device of my own. 4. kindle has the best functionality of any device on the market, and all of those functions improve the experience.

once i got my 2, i found that i could load most of the readings for a grad course i was taking, and when i was finished, i could read something fun. i read 4 non-school books that semester. had *never* done that before. i'm just chortling about the price-drop. in the months i've had my 2 i've gotten *way* more than sixty bucks' worth of use out of it.

just my take. i'm no special friend of amazon, and am not a participant in its 'affiliates' program. my next reader might not even be a kindle. have to see what the competition comes up with.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 6:09:19 PM PDT
DELETE says:
Serenity....the NY Times article says the company that owns Mobile Reference could not be reached for comment. I think sooner or later some statement will have to be made if they do not want to permanently damage their reputation.

An amazon spokesperson also said deleting the content was probably not a good idea. LOL. Nothing like hindsight!

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:13:12 PM PDT
JasonDavid says:
The solution is pretty simple.. rid yourself of all technology asap. Turn off your computer (you know your ISP can see what you download right? THEY CAN!!), never turn on your television if you have cable (guess what? THEY CAN SEE WHAT YOU ARE WATCHING!!!!) and most importantly, take your cell phone and destroy it asap (YES, your cell provider is also watching you)..

Here is the good news.. You REALLY aren't that important and NO ONE CARES what YOU do with your free time, so this would be an optimum time to get over yourself. For those that were "just about to buy" etc.. whatever! YOU WERE NOT! you were toying with the idea but never had the nerve to throw $300.00 at amazon and make it happen.. go away!

Proud to be the voice of sanity on this one!

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:13:45 PM PDT
I had been considering buying a Kindle reader. But after the Amazon Orwellian move of deleting books from user's devices, I won't even consider it. This is OUTRAGEOUS

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:16:25 PM PDT
Jwb52z says:
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I think people are making too big a deal of this. People need to get used to the idea that physical things are never going to be the same completely as virtual, electronic, ebook items. I do completely respect the old ideas of personal freedom versus security, but really, it's not on the same level as personal freedom if you think about it. It's a book. As much as I love to read, I don't think I have the right to object to the group/person/owner's right to publish or retract any book if they see fit because they own the rights to it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 6:17:56 PM PDT
Kir says:
Thank you Jason. I think people must love to be outraged.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 6:26:33 PM PDT
To use another more appropriate analogy... if Amazon found out that they were selling counterfeit paper copies of books and you had bought one... would they send police to your home to confiscate the books? Or just notify people and remove them from the Amazon catalog? I think the answer is the latter.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:30:18 PM PDT
S. Krick says:
This situation with Amazon deleting books without prior notice makes me angry. If Amazon sells me a bootleg book, well, that's THEIR problem, not mine. Here is my take on how it should be handled: Amazon should notify me with an explanation, tell me that the book will be removed from their servers in X days, and not delete it from my device. Now I can't re-download it from them again, or sync my copies on multiple devices, but in the meantime I get to keep my copy. Amazon can ask me to remove my copy, but it's up to me to do so, not them. If I do remove my copy, I am eligible for a refund, but remember it's my choice.

It seems obvious that Amazon needs to review the books posted for sale just like Apple reviews the apps that can be sold in its iTunes App store - its a very similar situation. Amazon would only be reviewing for illegal, bootleg items, not content.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:32:07 PM PDT
Did they "see" what was on your actual Kindle or remove it from their servers and the next time you sync'd rights the software removed due to lack of rights? Just want to make sure we're accurate in our discussion. Napster Pay Monthly worked the same way. When you sync'd it checked the DRM and would remove the content.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:32:43 PM PDT
DELETE says:
Amazon Customer Service posted a statement in this thread:

http://www.amazon.com/tag/kindle/forum/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1D7SY3BVSESG&cdThread=Tx1QUP1NLUY4Q5M&displayType=tagsDetail

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:42:22 PM PDT
Jwb52z says:
I think the problem with "they removed the books from our Kindles, but they wouldn't do it with paper copies" is that people don't realize one important thing. The ONLY reason that people DON'T have said physical copies removed is that it is not feasible to do it as far as logistics are concerned. They would do it if they could do it physically. They can do it this way and they have every legal right to do it, whether people wwant to accept or not and whether they like it or not. You don't have a legal right to keep a copy of something, even if you bought it, if the original rights holder has the right to rescind that permission. It's all about permission. What we call rights are actually permission from authority whether people like that idea or not. Only the "inalienable" rights are not convered by this. We each live by permission of each other. That's what keeps the relative peace in life and keeps anarchy at bay. People think there are these absolutes out there in the ether floating around for us to find and use when nothing is that way.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 6:48:03 PM PDT
DELETE says:
Didn't this happen in the "physical book world" with OJ Simpson's book "If I Did It"? It went to print but then was pulled. See the wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It

The 400,000 printed copies were "recalled" for pulping - but were they really all destroyed??!!

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 6:51:59 PM PDT
"These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books. When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers. We are changing our systems so that in the future, books will not be removed from customers' devices in these circumstances."

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 7:00:36 PM PDT
Stewart says:
Example 1: If you bought a car [say a 2005 Mercedes with 10,000 miles] for $1,000, you could expect to have the police knocking on your door and impounding the car.

Example 2: If you fail to make payments on your car, the bank can send an Impound Agent who will "take" it out of your driveway or from in front of your house.

Example 3: If you illegally "buy" records on the Internet, you can expect there is a chance that a corp. will take you to court and win. Large damage suit.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 7:36:33 PM PDT
Jockular says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 7:38:40 PM PDT
Jockular says:
correction: are NOW rotting in jail ...

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 8:10:50 PM PDT
Neil Shapiro says:
Well, I have had it with Amazon. In the Ayn Rand threads I left many long messages about how Amazon's draconian views of their rights under the DCMA were liable to endanger the entire future of computing. I don't have the heart to repeat it all now. I would put my Kindle up for sale on eBay tonight but it was a gift to me from my children who would be very upset. I do not intend to buy many more books from Amazon because of this and, in a year, I'll come up with some excuse to rid myself of this Amazonian platform. And get a different reader that maybe uses a better, fairer DRM and has no way for a company to eavesdrop. A shame because the Kindle 2 is the best so far. But the company..... No, I cannot support them. I won't be leaving many more messages here either. Frankly all of the fun and excitement of owning this has pretty much flown for me thanks to Amazon's actions.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 8:12:33 PM PDT
Glenn Harris says:
Whether it was "right" for Amazon to remove these books from the Kindle isn't the issue; that they COULD and DID is the issue. This action removes any doubt that the Kindle owner does not in fact own the books on the Kindle. Not only can Amazon remove the books if they so desire (everyone who believes "it will never happen again" please raise your hand), they can also if they choose control how many times you can read the book, where you can store the book, who you can give the book to...and who knows what else. I'd rather spend $7.99 on a paperback that was actually mine.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 8:14:17 PM PDT
CB says:
Amazon: You looked at [1984] and [Animal Farm]. You might also consider ["The SPEED of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything"]. Start reading The SPEED of Trust: The One Thing that Changes Everything on your Kindle in under a minute.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 8:20:38 PM PDT
EMazz1 says:
Okay, I can understand being upset about a known legitimate publisher pulling books off of Amazon and from Kindles without giving a reason. I also agree with not purchasing from said publisher. But getting upset and throwing fits that titles are removed from the store and devices that are obviously counterfeit and not being sold by the rights holder but by some 'self published' thief is the epitomoy of entitlement.

Also why are you people marking no for every post that suports Amazon in their pursuit of stopping piracy of copy righted material? The only posts that are not getting no's are those that echo the feeling that one has the right to keep stolen material. Lets see the post by Kir on July 17, 2009 @ 5:46 pm PDT is at this time 0 for 5? Kir's stance is anti thief and you mark that as a negative! WOW in legal terms if you buy something that is stolen and attempt to keep it when it has been proven that it is in fact stolen good, you are then an accessory to the crime and may be charged also. Example if you buy a stolen car and the VIN number has been changed, if it comes out that the car was stolen it will be taken from you, and you will NEVER get your money back. Even if you purchased it from a dealer and they did not know it was stolen. If you still have a loan for that car, guess what you MUST STILL PAY FOR THE LOAN. To bad that you don't have the car. That's completely legal for the government to take the car from you.

Don't be a thief and insist on keeping stolen material. Be glad that you got your money back.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 8:28:36 PM PDT
From the Amazon Rep: " we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices" Can Amazon SEE what I have my Kindle? Like converted personal/business documents that I may bring on a flight that I converted on my own machine? DO THEY HAVE ACCESS TO MY MACHINE OVER WHISPERNET?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 8:31:26 PM PDT
EMazz1 says:
it is much more dificult to fake a real book than an ebook!!!! no of course they would not take a paper book from you but they would help assist the publisher take action against the thief.

yes i'm yelling at you, get over yourself.

let's see how many negative i get with this post.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 17, 2009 8:33:15 PM PDT
EMazz1 says:
You should still remove the illegal copies from the devices. It's still theft.

Posted on Jul 17, 2009 8:33:56 PM PDT
Right now, I'm less worried about DRM content and more worried about my personal content (like business docs that may or may not contain intellectual property).
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Discussion in:  Kindle forum
Participants:  58
Total posts:  113
Initial post:  Jul 17, 2009
Latest post:  Jul 26, 2009

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