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The Terrorist Surveillance Program thinks you might be a terrorist and so it is watching


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Initial post: Sep 18, 2009 11:21:57 AM PDT
Obama has asked congress to renew provisions of the Terrorist Surveillance Program that are set to expire on Dec. 31st. This program allows various agencie of the federal government to monitor all communications, movements, and actions of anyone suspected of being a terrorist or of having connections with anyone suspected of being a terrorist.

But it also included "lone wolf terrorists" -- those who are not suspected of being a terrorist and have no connections with anyone suspected of being a terrorist. Here's the VOA's description --

________________
White House Backs Controversial Domestic Surveillance Provisions
By VOA News
16 September 2009


The Obama administration is urging lawmakers to extend three provisions of the controversial domestic surveillance law known as the USA Patriot Act.

The U.S. Justice Department issued a letter Tuesday asking Congress to renew provisions of the law that allow authorities to conduct roving electronic eavesdropping, or wiretaps, access business records and track so-called "lone wolf" suspects with no known links to foreign powers or terrorist groups.

The roving wiretaps would let agents track the communications of suspects who change their cell phones or other devices.

The provisions are due to expire on December 31.

Some lawmakers and civil libertarians have criticized the provisions, saying they infringe on Americans' right to privacy. The Justice Department says the administration is willing to consider stronger privacy protections as long as they do not "undermine the effectiveness" of the provisions.

Senator Patrick Leahy, a Democrat from the northeastern state of Vermont, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee, says it is important for the administration and Congress to work to protect both national security and civil liberties.
_____________

That just about covers everyone -- people with known connections to terrorism and the lone wolves with no such connections. This is Rumsfeld's visions -- things we know, things we don't know, and things we don't know we don't.

What's left? Are you a lone wolf terrorist suspect? Do you have to do anything to get on the list of lone wolves? Apparently not because if you do something that looks like you are a terrorist you will be covered by the known terrorist suspect part. So the lone wolves are all those who have done absolutely nothihng!!!

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 11:25:36 AM PDT
J.Espresso says:
I'd like to see this program come to an end. I'm also eager to see if the right is as eager for it as they were before, now that this same power is in the opposing party's hands.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 11:41:37 AM PDT
John M. Lane says:
Hello Robert Merrill,

You might be a terrorist, but I'm not. By the way, aren't you the guy who proclaimed himself to be a Communist?

Maybe they're just scoping you out before the President makes you a Czar of something? Put in a good word for me at the White House.

I'd be a great Czar even if I am not now, nor ever have been a Communist. We'll just keep that our little secret.

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 11:46:07 AM PDT
Since when does communism have anything to do with being a terrorist? What do Czars have to do with communism?

I guess if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, right? Wrong.

I am disgusted that this has been re-upd. I had hoped for more from Obama, but I guess I never really expected it.

Can we have our country back?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 11:48:51 AM PDT
Youssif says:
Russia eliminated Czars with the 1917 Revolution. Moreover, this act is contrary to the vision of our founders. The founders of the U.S. asserted that every government would be a tyranny if it could be. These provisions of the PATRIOT Act are highly unlikely to be given up without strong demand from the people because the Founding Fathers were right--every government would be a tyranny if it could be. That's why there are checks and balances. Failing those, final accountability is to the people. When the people also fail a tyranny will emerge.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 11:49:10 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 11:51:06 AM PDT
Lane,

But how do you know you are not a terrorist? Not having any connections to terrorists is not an excuse. You may be a "lone wolf."

Yes, I'm that guy -- still as red as ever and more convinced that the best thing that happened in the 19th and 20th centuries was communism. You must be confused a little -- we don't like Czars. We have a history of overthrowing them. I don't know where the right wing the US got the idea to create Czars. But I will put in a good word for you with someone. Are you sure you'd make a good Czar? Aren't they pretty much hated by everyone. That sounds like a "lone wolf" personality profile to me. You can bet the TSP also thinks so -- illusions of Czardom.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 11:54:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 11:55:38 AM PDT
J.Espresso says:
"I had hoped for more from Obama, but I guess I never really expected it. "

-- Obama showed his true colors during the campaign when he sided with the Republicans for retroactive telecom immunity after they had broken the law. I never viewed him as a liberal, but many on the left projected on to him what they wanted, rather than what he was gradually showing himself to be.

The only real progressive during the campaign was Kucinich, and he didn't stand a snowball's chance. The irony of many progressives is that they don't back the real progressives during the campaign because they feel he's not "electable". Then, after the person they did back gets elected, they lament that he doesn't make decisisons the way a real progressive would.

If you want a progressive in charge, you've got to back progressives when they run. The progressive choice in 2008 was Dennis Kucinich. (In 2004 it was Dean or Kucinich.) Anyone else was bound to disappoint.

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 11:54:59 AM PDT
Dems & liberals like people too much to be a "lone wolf". That is more likely to be a con as they apparently hate everyone.

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:02:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 12:03:43 PM PDT
>>Dems & liberals like people too much to be a "lone wolf". That is more likely to be a con as they apparently hate everyone. <<

Kind of like the Tim McVeigh "Patriot" types........

(I'm sorry, that's "PATRIOT"(tm).....)

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:07:00 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 4, 2010 11:08:27 AM PST]

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:11:47 PM PDT
That is fine, take my civil liberties. I wasn't using them anyway.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 12:16:53 PM PDT
Youssif says:
Familiar to you?

"Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=14

Why do you hate freedom?

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:19:47 PM PDT
He must hate America.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 12:22:35 PM PDT
John M. Lane says:
Hello Comrade Merrill,

Thanks for the nice reply and the offer to put in a good word for me at the White House. Permit me to assure you that I'm not a terrorist, although I have come close to boring people to death.

I still think I'd be a great Czar, maybe even as good as Van Jones, one of your esteemed comrades.
With ACORN falling apart, the President may need to fill the vacuum they're leaving by appointing a Brothel Czar to help people get the financing they need to support all those under-age girls they'll be importing. Maybe we could even open it up to little boys?

Do you have Senator Barney Frank's number? I bet he'd help us out!

By the way, I didn't know Communists were allowed to hunt wolves? Help me out with the White House and I'll get you a permit to hunt wolves legally. :)

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:43:19 PM PDT
.>> Maybe we could even open it up to little boys?

Do you have Senator Barney Frank's number? I bet he'd help us out!<<

Sorry, ex-Congresscritter Mark Foley (R/FL) has dibs on the boys' section...

Just curious, when did Barney Frank become a Senator?? Oops., I forgot. Facts don't matter to wing-nuts... My bad.

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 12:46:40 PM PDT
Again with the communist czar connection. Read a book! You just make yourself look even more ignorant than your radical hate speach does on its own. What do you learn in school in Montanna?

Go to google and type in "Russian Revolution".

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 12:49:21 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 4, 2010 11:08:28 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 12:49:52 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jun 30, 2011 11:46:22 AM PDT]

Posted on Sep 18, 2009 1:18:37 PM PDT
Quit crying about your freedoms and your civil rights when you have never had them violated.
I ain't complainin'

But the law is in place to allow them to. Why do you hate America so much that you want to see its values and traditions eroded?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 1:30:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 1:35:50 PM PDT
J.Espresso says:
"I am willing to be that none of you left-wingers have ever been interrogated nor have you been spied upon by the US Govt. I am also willing to bet that none of you knows anyone that has had any of this done to them. "

That's the difference between us. It doesn't have to happen to me personally to know it matters. I don't know anyone who was imprisoned in a Japanese internment camp either during World War II, but I still know it was wrong. I also know that they are unlikely to be interested in the John Does and Mike Smiths of the country, but if you're an American whose name happens to be Yusuf, or Amadou, or Mohammed, and you go to a mosque instead of a church, you might not be able to make the same assertion.

Why do conservatives have such a hard time seeing the larger picture outside of how it affects them personally?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 1:47:02 PM PDT
xyz says:
<<< Just curious, when did Barney Frank become a Senator?? Oops., I forgot. Facts don't matter to wing-nuts... My bad. <<<<<
_________________________________________

Now that he has an "in" at the White House, maybe he knows something!!! Barney Frank is going to replace Ted Kennedy!!

Awesome!!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 2:15:45 PM PDT
Proud Conservative: "Certainly they will want to interrogate me for that one."

Well...Look what crawled home from school. Did you actually learn anything?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 2:21:03 PM PDT
Proud Conservative: "Quit crying about your freedoms and your civil rights when you have never had them violated."

LOL It's you wing-nuts that cry about your freedoms disappearing. Not us.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 2:22:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 2:24:17 PM PDT
Youssif says:
I just want to know why you hate freedom and why you are so un-American as to dismiss our founders' take on tyranny?

Oh and p.s. you shouldn't make any assumptions about who I might know, what they have experienced or what I might have experienced.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009 3:39:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2009 3:59:39 PM PDT
Proud Conservative says, "I am willing to be that none of you left-wingers have ever been interrogated nor have you been spied upon by the US Govt. I am also willing to bet that none of you knows anyone that has had any of this done to them."

It might be interesting for everyone to request "their file" from the FBI. The FBI was ordered by congress a long time ago to make it easier for people to see the file the FBI has on them. There's a special office in the FBI to handle these requests. Just google "fbi files" and you'll get the instructions. I know a few people who have done it and were surprised to see how much stuff the FBI had collected on them -- really stupid stuff like newspaper clippings of events that were only barely related to them. There was also a lot of irrelevant stuff.

There was a book about 8 years ago on the FBI files on John Lennon.

I once lost a job because of FBI surveillance, so they do have a file on me. I've never asked for it, however. But the FBI is different from Homeland Security, NSA, and the Pentagon -- the agencies working the TSP. The FBI is under more control.

But I'm really with you. 99% of what I do is mowing the lawn and working and just mundane stuff. It is not the practice that is the problem. It is the principle. Why do governments surveil ordinary people. Or surveil the legal political acts of people.
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  11
Total posts:  29
Initial post:  Sep 18, 2009
Latest post:  Sep 18, 2009

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