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Showing 1-25 of 26 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Apr 2, 2011, 11:31:43 PM PDT
Dan says:
Why do all the Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Hindus, etc. believe in gods that are NOT real? How can so many hundreds of millions of people be SOOO dumb to believe in made-up gods? And the ancient Greeks, too. And the Norse gods, and Mayan gods were made-up also. I don't understand how so many people could be so gullible.

Good thing our God is real. Whew.

Posted on Apr 7, 2011, 9:23:02 PM PDT
Myself as deaf person want to share you something... Around at age of 8 or 9, I have seen Dove flew over my head while I shut my eyes at the church. I then knew there is REAL GOD. Before Dove flew over my head, I stood being alone in the thickest darkness that I have ever saw in my life and sudden at the corner of my right eye, Dove flew over my head and then I saw bright light liquid flown down from top of my head down to middle of my body. As bright light take over the darkness at the middle of way down...I opened my eyes, puzzled and not know what it was. I kept silence about that except my grandmother stood beside me asking me if I saw anything so I told her yes. She knew about this story. Later one day when I was 14 years old I finally admitted my father about this. My father said yes that is Dove and I remember my mother told me about it. I was surpised because my father knew it for a long time and never asked me about it. 2 years later, I became christian. Then few years later, at the retreat, I asked God what was the liquid I saw? God said, out of blue, 'the anointing was pouring over you just like I did anoint over King David". I jumped out of camp bed bunk, "Oh my gosh!" I was shocked. I realized God revealed it to me before I became christian. Awesome. I urgue you plllleease accept Jesus as your personal savior. Just confess by your mouth by your heart that you believe Him died for you. Ask him to take control of your life. It is a biggest decision of all in your life. Please take the chance rightnow!

Posted on Apr 8, 2011, 9:53:00 PM PDT
Dan says:
Thank you Chelle!

You have convinced me. I think I must become a Christian now. At first I did not want to, but then, when you explained that A DOVE flew over you, and how you saw a liquid flowing down from the top of your head, I saw how therefore, Christianity MUST be true. I wonder how I could have been so foolish not to see the truth before. Of course. A Dove. And bright liquid. Thank you, this is irrefutable proof that all other religions are wrong and Christianity is right. No one from any other religion has ever HAD A DOVE FLY OVER THEIR HEAD or spoken with their gods, because of course, those other gods are just FAIRY TALES. Thank you, thank you.

Posted on Apr 12, 2011, 9:38:21 AM PDT
Dan you crack me up so funny.LOL

Posted on Apr 12, 2011, 5:52:11 PM PDT
KPA says:
When I was a little boy, about 5 years old, I dreamt that I was strapped into a space capsule and could hear the voice of the mission controller, counting down. Ten! Nine! And so on. It was so real, and so frightening! Many years later, in science class, I had a vision of a classroom, not on the Earth, but on the Moon! The children were all learning about how Galileo dropped weights from a tower to test Aristotle's theory of falling objects. They were learning about the scientific method, in a classroom on the surface of the Moon. For Kepler's sake!! I realized then this is the future of mankind. We have the technology to free ourselves from the bonds of gravity, to explore the solar system and some day other star systems. Life, the amazing ability of matter to self-organize and become self aware, is precious. We must not languish on this one tiny blue dot in space. We must spread life everywhere we can. This is the most important decision of your life! Support the exploration and colonization of space!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 21, 2011, 6:10:01 PM PDT
Marc says:
Dan you were a bit rough with Chelle but your point is excellent. You may or may not be right, but you are rational. What a good starting point these days. =) I think I am getting inspired to form a group and possibly do some speaking on this topic. It is the most neglected topic on the net and also in peoples lives:CONFUSION ABOUT GOD. Personally I found a lot of solace and calm by doing my bi-naural beat meditation. I make a living teaching it, in fact. I must say though, that my opinion is we are all thinking too small. We are all thinking about God in the reflection of one lifetime, usually our lifetime. I think this is the microscopic way we all see things-"I prayed, and God did nothing." Or...."I FELT God was by my side." Neither concludes anything. I will speculate that since our "Higher power", regardless of what you name him or her does exist somewhere, we might start by asking ourselves many new things. Perhaps a good place to start would be: If there are definite laws of science, did God create them, or is he bound by them as well!!!?

That leads to another question.....if there is a God, why did he create us in the first place? There can be only 2 answers: 1-He did it accidentally. 2-God needs us as much as we need him/her. Which is it. This might be a good place to start and anyone wishing to have me run or participate in a blog or message board on this topic, please email me at my yahoo email which is: mince38

Marc

In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2011, 3:21:00 PM PDT
Lisa says:
Chelle, what a beautiful experience with the Holy Spirit- I had something similar happen to me after I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior when I was 16. I was very ill for over 2 - 3 weeks with chills and fever. My fever broke, and I took a shower-- and while thinking about how I wanted God in my life while in the shower, the Holy Spirit touched me from the top of my head, and it felt JUSt as you described-- like "bright light liquid" going down into my body from the top of my head down to the middle- At the same time, my entire heart was cleansed from the inside. All of my petty jealousies and negativity were washed away- He actually CLEANED my spirit!

I have not always been obedient to my calling, but God , out of His mercy and love has received me back . We have been given much , may we continue to remain faithful to Him
love in Jesus

Posted on May 11, 2011, 9:40:44 PM PDT
Doobie Nice says:
What do you believe? and how do you prove it? Can a person judge God? Can you answer the question "why are you here" and how did we get here? what is your purpose for being made alive and why is life so short? Why do we kill for pleasure or passion and animals for survival and not thier own? If you can be serious enough to answer these questions in a simple way a child can understand then write a book.

Posted on May 11, 2011, 9:43:57 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on May 11, 2011, 9:58:38 PM PDT]

Posted on May 12, 2011, 10:11:25 PM PDT
Dan says:
Thanks Lisa, that's great. You also felt a bright liquid running down from your head. It might have been the Holy Spirit, yes. Or maybe it's because you were IN THE SHOWER. I guess I am still waiting to have my experience with bright liquids, and doves flying over my head, and angels appearing, and unicorns, and elves, and burning bushes. But when I do have that experience, I am ready to believe. I know, I know, I 'm just not "open" enough to the Lord - if I believe first, then I will get my proof afterward. Kind of back-assward, though, isn't it?

And Doobie: thanks for your comments. No one has any idea what you are talking about.

Posted on May 15, 2011, 9:37:41 PM PDT
K. Underwood says:
Dan...I think I love you. I experienced a literal LOL. I, for one, think that is a religious experience.

If a Dove flew over my head and I felt a liquid...I probably would just assume it decided to take a dump on my head. Maybe it would be less mortifying and disgusting to pretend it was a message from God?

In reply to an earlier post on May 20, 2011, 9:55:30 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 20, 2011, 9:56:59 AM PDT
Dan,
You will never have a mystical experience because you have shut out grace! I hate to sound harsh, but it's true! The Holy Spirit cannot come to you because you have no humility! "Blessed is he who has not seen and yet still believes"! In the end, all will believe! It's just more profitable to your soul to believe, now!

Posted on May 21, 2011, 8:41:59 AM PDT
Dan says:
Coretta, I do appreciate your concern. No sarcasm there - I believe that you really do have my interests at heart. But look at what you are saying: You are saying that I have not accepted Christianity because I "have shut out grace" and have not humbled myself. I think what you really mean is that I should just ignore all the logic, intelligence, and reasonableness that "God" supposedly gave me, and just trust in something that I find to be completely ridiculous, and sort of "talk myself into it."

To me, that sounds like just good old-fashioned brainwashing.

And do you know what? You are EXACTLY the same as me. How come you didn't "open yourself up" to all that nonsense about the world ending today? How come you didn't sell your home and go out and warn people the world was going to end? Because it's just ridiculous and you KNOW it. So actually, you and I don't really disagree in principle - just in degree. You know that those Christians just completely talked themselves into a bunch of ridiculous ideas. And I think you are actually the same as them - you've convinced yourself that God and Jesus and Heaven sound really nice, and you've believed it for so long that you've convinced yourself they are real - same as the doomsday people. But God and Jesus and Heaven, really, are ideas that are just as silly as thinking the world was going to end today. You can't see the silliness of it all unless you step outside of it for a moment.

Furthermore, I would ask you why YOU don't just "accept the grace" of Buddha, or Moroni, or Muhammad, or Shiva? Millions of other people believe in them, and those people would say that YOU don't believe in them because you have "shut out their grace" and not humbled yourself. But of course, you think other religions are just a bunch of silly fairy tales. You think that about ALL other religions. They are ALL nonsense. Except, of course, your own. Don't you see the illogic of it?

-Dan

In reply to an earlier post on May 24, 2011, 11:11:33 PM PDT
Marc says:
Dan,

Ive never seen a more logical, non attacking, reasonable argument about religion as you presented to Coretta in years. Cudos to you. There is a great book called "Why God wont Go Away" which explains that humans are hard wired to believe in God, no matter how rediculous the religion they were born with for one reason.........life without a God would make many people literallly go mad and they wouldnt be able to function or ever feel safe again. Am i an athiest. No way! But all things must be considered. By the way, the Sufi's have presented more beauty combined with wisdom in their poetry than almost any other religion. Do all we christians know that The Sufi poet Rumi is the best selling poetry author in the world! Must be a reason. I personally think Christ is a "consciousness" Jesus talked about. Not a literal walking being. I ask all of you to google CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS and see what comes up.

Posted on Jun 17, 2011, 11:30:15 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 17, 2011, 11:32:25 AM PDT
grochalj says:
I have to agree with Dan on this one. I personally do believe there is some divine power behind it all, but that doesn't make my viewpoint completely and utterly true. This is the problems with most Christians today. Jesus never said go out and be phanatical, judgmental, egotistical and shut out all forms of logic while crying love, love, love, in my name. I would love to see a sect of christianity that doesn't profess the answer to every hard question is faith. I hardly believe God wants this. Non-believers aren't slamming your beliefs in these forums - they are slamming your answers. There is room for faith and logical, well-reasoned thought. It is not mutually exclusive. Notice Jesus challenged questioners with well thought, well reasoned stories, parables etc. What happened to that kind of beneficial debate. Now its all "I love God!! Faith, Faith, faith! Done." This is not helping the cause.

Posted on Jul 4, 2011, 1:42:42 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 4, 2011, 1:45:50 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2011, 10:26:31 PM PDT
Dan says:
Grochalj and Marc,

Thank you both. Emerson tells us that every man we meet is our master in some point, and you've both confirmed that to me. I admire tremendously the sense of inquiry that you both espouse - as opposed to the blind righteousness that Christianity seems to be screaming these days. I think...it's OK to say we don't know something. It's OK for a Christian to admire the beauty and honest wisdom of a Sufi poet. Is there no wisdom but Christian wisdom? I'm going to try to look up your suggestions Marc. And grochalj, I suspect the reason we do not see faith and well-reasoned logic walking hand in hand...is because it takes work. And it doesn't make good video.

And can someone please explain why the Christians like Chelle and Lisa and Coretta keep popping up in this forum, but don't stick around to defend even the silliest, most obvious questions about their faith? I swear, it's like they've NEVER heard someone pose a halfway intelligent critique of their dogma before. Do these people live in caves or something?

-Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 7, 2011, 9:21:11 PM PDT
DaveT says:
Dan, you had me for a moment before I realized your original post was dripping with sarcasm. Then I had a good laugh.

Personally I believe in some kind of Omniscient presence that most people might call God. There have been some events in my life that I find hard to attribute to pure coincidence. However, these events DO NOT include the incredibly realistic supernatural dream/nightmare I had as a child which reminded me of Chelle's post.

I recently came to the realization that even if there was a God, that does not necessarily mean that there is life after death. The fanciful descriptions in the common Christian interpretation of a Black and White scenario where either you go to eternal pleasure in Heaven or eternal torment in Hell, defy all common sense. (Oh wait... according to Colton, even if I manage to get into Heaven I'm going to have to grab a sword and fight Satan... so much for my peaceful afterlife)

The B/W interpretation only make sense as a means to control simple minds. Much like the way parents say to their kids that doing that is bad and doing that is good. What about the million grey shades in between?

Seriously, imagine if you ended up burning in Hell FOREVER simply because you had ONE too many lascivious thoughts... or maybe according to Matthew 19:12, I should simply become an Eunuch to get into Heaven*ouch*.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 8, 2011, 3:40:02 AM PDT
grochalj says:
Agreed. Black and white scenarios in our behaviors cannot possibly dictate who we are as a whole. Especially if there is a supreme being that set this all into motion, I am pretty sure in all its complexities there is NO black and white. As you said it's control for weak minds. It is also easier for damaged minds to see everything in black and white. I've known many people who could not handle the world as it is and turned to religion as a last resort. Now they ascribe every event good or bad to "God's plan." I have sooo many issues with this I won't even go into it here.
Back to black or white though, the same applies to only entering heaven if we accept Jesus as our persona lord and savior. It seems odd that if I were a good person in every other respect THIS would keep me out of heaven. Not to mention if by the Christian view Jesus is God, if you accept that God is real it seems by association you would be accepting Jesus as real - but that's another one of those gray areas lol.

Posted on Feb 16, 2012, 10:02:28 PM PST
SunshineOnMe says:
Ok, this discussion got me thinking. I wondered why the two Christians did not respond to your questions, and I think it's because they felt they had no productive way to respond.I think it would be difficult to describe a moment about an experience with the Holy Spirit to an audience who is skeptical. It's hard to take seriously someone elses experience where you can't draw on your own personal well of emotion or memory of a similar experience. Someone sharing a memory or experience unfamilar with their audience will often try to water down the story by giving examples of something relatable to their audience; "well it's like this; or "it feels sort of like that."

If someone asks me I can say God saved me. I know it was him, and he took me, a sinner, and taught me what hope was. I don't have many answers, or any really. I can tell you what he did for me, and if you can relate, then my story will mean something to you. If my audience can't or doesn't want to relate then everything I say will sound silly, obnoxious, self-rightous, and naiive, even though those are the very thing farthest from my intentions.

As a silly, obnoxious, self-rightous, naiive side-note God loves you. Just in case you didn't hear that before, it's true. ;)

Posted on Apr 2, 2012, 1:14:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 2, 2012, 1:40:19 PM PDT
Think about one thing... Your life on earth is like one minute out of million years (eternal life) Grab the opportunity of being saved for what Jesus had done for you. Read the Bible ... Truth will set you free.
I had cancer of Leukemia when I was 16 years old, I remember, I did not have a day of peace for three months of staying in the hospital. While that time, I complained my mother that I felt suffered and frustrated. My mother, not christian (even today - pray for her) said I am sorry I wish I could to help you but you know when you become older, you will look back and you will realize it only takes short time out of your life. Your will be fine after you are done with it. I think myself in same way what she said... why do I waste my time fighting or have reasons not to believe God? God made everything, you and me.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with ALL YOUR HEART, and lean not on your own understanding;

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012, 7:49:43 PM PST
Dan, I read this horrid tome and it was disgusting to me. Clearly an effort to proselytize by a fundamentalist preacher. And it literally condemns FIVE BILLION people to hell. Five billion. That's the "loving" God that Todd Burpo writes about.

I've worked in palliative medicine - care of the dying - for years. And have been studying NDEs for years. You NEVER hear a story like this one. It's utterly ridiculous and I despair that it's so popular. Seriously... how can ANY person who is capable of thought at the most SIMPLE level think that theirs is the one "true" religion?

I've seen fundamentalist Christians have NDEs and LEAVE their churches. Typically, they report that those fundies have it all wrong. Fundamentalism of ANY religion has a core of anger in it. In truth, Jews, Muslims, Hindis, atheists - ALL kinds of people have wonderful NDE experiences - and they come back telling us that God is "perfect Love, all knowledge, and complete acceptance." And they say that all we are really supposed to do is love each other - that is the ONE most important thing. To help each other - have your career, pay your bills, enjoy a good chocolate - all that matters. But the bottom line is how we treat others. And I'm ashamed to confess that the fundamentalists in my own religion - Christianity - get it ALL wrong. For people like me, Christianity is all about using an extraordinary person as a teacher and an example of how to live. Fundamentalists are all about rules and laws and avoiding hell. I'm sorry - that's just stupid.

I like your points. Sooo many people leave their churches and religions after NDEs - they leave religions that tell them they are the only ones who are right. And people of ALL religions and NO religions tell us that God is real, that PEOPLE are judgmental, and that we need to stop treating each other like that - trying to change their religion.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012, 11:53:53 PM PST
Marc says:
Dan, Faith can be deadlier than a sword in the wrong hands. Who here just on this thread has not wasted a portion of his life saying things like.."I know I can make her love me". or "I know dad wont mis THIS birthday.Im sure." Look at the over the top city they call Las Vegas, and ask what has built it. Only one thing...FAITH! A city like that doesnt get built by most of the visitors staying on their budgets. Its always "I know Im going to get hot. If I can just hold on a bit more" or.."This machine HAS to pay off. Ive been watching it all night." Yes I spent 9 years as a 21 dealer there. Ive watched the somber faces leaving the casino. Or go to any racetrack in the country and look at all the faces on the way in before the races start. Then look at all the faces on the way out after they are all over. You are watching a micro demonstration of faith being crushed. So how can we expect logical men who have had faith in something ALL their life to admit their life was all in vain...especially those unspeakables in sand riddled places that have to destroy their women almost completely to get any satisfaction from their faith! Every day, 2 teams enter a playing field. Both have absolute faith they are going to win. And when they do, they thank God. And when they don't, they blame themselves for not practicing enough. No wonder self hatred is so rampant on this tortured earth. Show me where there is the most faith and I will show you where the most poverty,sadness and lack of any innovative new technologies are. They cant invent anything. They are too busy waiting for God to answer them. Look, where they have so much faith,that they stop work and pray like 11 times a day, they haven't invented anything since Julius Caesar ruled! So much more to say on that but........

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 4:48:52 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Dec 1, 2012, 2:19:03 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 20, 2013, 10:40:15 PM PST
Peggi says:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
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