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Herodian Messiah: Case For Jesus As Grandson of Herod Paperback – February 14, 2010
Purchase options and add-ons
- Print length278 pages
- LanguageEnglish
- Publication dateFebruary 14, 2010
- Dimensions6 x 0.63 x 9 inches
- ISBN-100615355080
- ISBN-13978-0615355085
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Editorial Reviews
From the Inside Flap
- Chapter 1 Summary Argument
- Chapter 2 Jesus, Messiah of Levi
- Chapter 3 Luke's Genealogy
- Chapter 4 Mary the Mother of Jesus (Mariamne bat Antigonus)
- Chapter 5 Mary Magdalene (Mariamne bat Aristobulus)
- Chapter 6 Crucifixion of Jesus
- Chapter 7 Paul of Tarsus (Phasaelus ben Timius)
- Chapter 8 The Jesus Movement, Origins and Theology
- Chapter 9 Antipater ben Herod (Father of Jesus)
- Chapter 10 Josephus, Jewish Traitor
- Chapter 11 Paul, Speculative Theories
About the Author
Product details
- Publisher : Tower Grove Publishing (February 14, 2010)
- Language : English
- Paperback : 278 pages
- ISBN-10 : 0615355080
- ISBN-13 : 978-0615355085
- Item Weight : 13.3 ounces
- Dimensions : 6 x 0.63 x 9 inches
- Best Sellers Rank: #3,334,888 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
- #4,808 in New Testament Criticism & Interpretation
- Customer Reviews:
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Firstly, the issue was never about Crucifixion of this particular person who the author purports was legally a Roman Citizen, in which case the Sanhedrin had no Jurisdiction over him and as with Paul punishment for treason was beheading. Check the dialogue with Pilate.
The author began by asking why the Sanhedrin, had issues with crucifying Jesus claiming they had no right to pass sentence but....
---"Pilate said to them, "Take Him yourselves and judge Him by your own laws."
They said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put any man to death;" and they began to accuse the Savior saying, "We found this man perverting our nation, and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that He Himself is Christ the King."
So actually they didn't say they couldn't put this particular man to death because he fell under Roman jurisdiction as opposed to James and Stephen whom they did obviously prove they had authority to execute, so their authority to carry out death sentences was obviously one they were allowed but this Jesus was an issue because the author posits that his lineage led to him having the legal standing of a Roman Citizen. I claim that this proves only that the way this Gospel was written was more to blame the Jews and exonerate Pilate. Pilate either was flaunting Roman law by sentencing Jesus in contradiction to Roman law, to the cross rather then a beheading, or this whole Gospel is written as a propaganda piece against the Jews and somebody didnt notice the contradiction between what they said about being helpless to sentence and execute Jesus, and then later the cat is out of the bag when they indeed execute James and Stephen no problemo.
I found his take on Jesus possible Hashmonean lineage quite refreshing from the usual repetitive literature out there, especially fascinating was his dealing with the lineage of Jesus where he postulates that most of the names used by Matthew and Luke were Hashmonean, not of Solomonic descent but at times I feel he didn't think things through well enough and came to conclusions from biblical verses that should one read further, one would see that its not what the author claimed. Though I appreciate his observation that if the Hashmoneans were usurpers of the throne belonging to Judea IE Solomon's descendants, then where in the heck were they and why didnt they challenge these upstart Hashmonean's who took rule to help restore order and never stepped aside to all a royal descendant of Solomon to take charge. Kudos
Example:
Chapter 2, he posits based on Psalms that David is as likely as Saul to lose the thrown if his children commit iniquities and and dont follow Gods Siniatic covenant and testimonies. He had contradistinction this from Samuel ll where in he promises Davids progeny thru Solomon would forever hold the status of royalty ergo Judah would be the tribe from which kings come from. He then states that God left an out for himself in Psalms saying in the that if they keep his Laws, all will be well, if not the all bets are off. I think this is his way of establishing how a royal monarchy can come from a priestly line instead of the longstanding belief that it would be Judah who held the scepter. But in Samuel he does not quote further enough where God promises that even if they misbehave, that unlike Saul, he would not take the kingdom away. Punish yes, but not to the extent that he would rip it away like he did Sauls.
This is found immediately in Chapter 2, Messiah son of Levi, where he says that God like a lawyer left an out for himself in case he wanted to drop Davids line like he did Saul's quoting only a couple verses without finishing out the chapter which demonstrates their is now lawyers tricks with God between him and and David.
Im was hoping the author might kindly respond, as this conclusion of Davids house being as dispensable as a Messianic line as Saul's was, does not hold water imho. I left him this message at his forum last week and since he is not updating Im hoping he will see, what I say are facts not in evidence and respond. . If he can answer my challenge to the validity of his conclusion in Chapter 2, I would be thrilled hear how he arrived at his conclusion. So I hope and wait. Maybe somebody else can resolve his conclusions in Chapter 2. If I'm right then Im right if wrong then I'm wrong and take no offense at being corrected as long as its done in polite communication.
I applaud the authors going thru those multiple Hyphenated Herod's and his task I know was not easy one as the Hashmonean line which started off so pure and sincere with the High Priest and his 5 son fought Antiochus Ephiphanes aka Antiochus IV rededicated the Temple for which we have the feast of lights mention in John I belive and after many decades began a slide into corruption and greed with deals made that eventually allowed the Romans to become masters of the land. Who was marrying whom and whom was a Herodian Idumean and who had Royal Hashmonean blood
Most of the book is brilliant conjecture, the Copper Scrolls role in events, Mary Magdalene wife of Jesus, not a new theory but a different path to the conclusion, Joseph the Carpenter who was not a Carpenter and what his true connection to Mary was.
I wont go into his speculations and theories about Paul because by then I think the author had worked so hard that he might have been seeing Herodian and Hashmoneans elsewhere though his thoughts on Pauls mission and action was very interesting.
So basically we have a detective story based on actual events and its up to you to make up your mind as too whether the author has all his ducks in a row or not. As you see I disagree with many issues he brings to bear, but the Hashmonean Jesus as opposed to the Judean Solomonic Jesus is a Pandoras box that we may never have the answer concretely but the author deserves a thumbs up for a daunting and herculean task to try and put all the pieces together. I give him 5 stars just for the sincere if at time wrong or assumptive imho thank him for sharing this bit of scholarship. Its been a long time since
someone has laid down a religious historical Judea Christian gauntlet based on Ideas that are radical and would never have crossed my mind.
I hope the author continue to contribute to religous scholarship and thought on other topics and as far as Herodian Messiah is concerened perhaps will have a revised edition in the future based on new discoveries that author has worked out or old ideas he might expain in greater detail.
This book helped me understand some flaws in the gospels of the New Testament and some flaws in the works of Flavius Josephus.
Steefen
Author of
Insights on the Exodus, King David, and Jesus: The Greatest Bible Study in Historical Accuracy: The Hebrew and Christian Bibles, The Koran, and The Book of Mormon
Kindle Version: Insights on The Exodus, King David, and Jesus / The Greatest Bible Study in Historical Accuracy: The Hebrew and Christian Bibles, The Koran, and the Book of Mormon
The Greatest Bible Study in Historical Accuracy: Insights on the Exodus, King David, the 23rd Psalm, Jesus and Paul
Water Bearing Fish, Part I: Biblical Accuracy in Ancient History and Tests of Faiths Held in the Intellect / The Frustrations and the Aspirations
The story of Jesus, or at least that of his family, is vitally important to our understanding of the modern world, especially the tensions among the three religions at the heart of today's conflicts. This is a key point of understanding: that the life of Christ is central to understanding politics and power discourse in Western history. He is important as narrative certainly, but more invisibly his life is important because of little understood connections to the development of Imperial Rome at its brith. Jesus' family was instrumental in developing events leading to the The Great Revolt, and the effects of that war still resonate today in important yet unseen ways. Its importance translates into the shaping of the moral outlook of a significant piece of the world's population. The better we understnd who Jesus was, the more likely we are to deal intelligently with our global political realities. Raymond's Herodian Messiah is one of the most insightful contributions there is in aiding this understanding. Historians and Biblical scholars concerned with tradition, people like Bart Ehrman, Robert Eisenman, Elaine Pagels, James Tabor, and Robin Lane Fox, to name a few, are controversial precisely because they investigate the impact of altered power discourses on modern society, and they attempt to answer where so many refuse to question. Raymond's book is a very important contribtuion to this body of work that attempts to answer the riddles of our discursive heritage. Because he draws out conclusions from meticulously compiled evidence, Raymond is able to venture where few others have been able to do so. His training as a lawyer has equipped him with the tools (and the attention to detail) that others perhaps lack. Therein lies the great value of his interpretation of the available data points.
If one seeks modern implications through better understanding of Palestine's great Roman war there are questions that one must attempt to answer: Why is Jesus, an ostensibly humble Galilean peasant carpenter, so importantly ubiquitous in modern narrative? Why did the Roman founder of Christianity Paul think he could get away with hijacking Jesus' name? Why does Paul urge his followers to obey Roman law while contesting the members of Jesus' own family? Why does Paul protest repeatedly that he is not a liar while disparaging Jesus' brothers in sarcastic terms? Who was Jesus' father that Jesus should be so important to Romans and to the Herodian puppets in Palestine? Who was his mother? Raymond provides some of the best answers to these questions and to many others.
The production values of the book are low, but that should not distract you from the content and the rigorous analysis that Raymond pursues.





