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Jim and Casper Go to Church: Frank Conversation about Faith, Churches, and Well-Meaning Christians Kindle Edition

by Jim Henderson (Author), Matt Casper (Author), George Barna (Foreword, Contributor) Format: Kindle Edition
4.3 4.3 out of 5 stars 156 ratings
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What does an atheist think about church? Jim Henderson decided that the best way to find out was to ask! So he recruited an atheist—Matt Casper—to visit twelve leading churches with him and give the “first impression” perspective of a non-believer. Week after week, this spiritual odd couple attended services at churches all over the country and documented their experiences at and reactions to each one. Along the way, they found the real value of their journey in the open and authentic friendship that developed as they talked, questioned, joked, and—most important—listened. Follow along with Jim and Casper on their visits, and eavesdrop as they discuss what they found. Their articulate, sometimes humorous, and always insightful dialogue offers Christians a new view of an environment where we’ve become overly comfortable: the church.
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  1. Print length
    207 pages
  2. Language
    English
  3. Sticky notes
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  4. Publisher
    Tyndale Momentum
  5. Publication date
    April 1, 2007
  6. File size
    330 KB
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Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly

It could be the pilot script for a sitcom: a pastor hires an atheist to help him critique several Christian churches throughout the United States. For the authors, however, this experiment was no joke. Henderson, a veteran Protestant minister, truly believes that evangelism requires listening to the good, the bad and the ugly about Christianity in order to be a better minister. So he hired Casper, an atheist copywriter and musician, to serve as "fresh eyes" and observe how a variety of Christians engage the Divine through worship. Their travels took them to a mission-minded church, an Emergent church and to Joel Osteen's megachurch, among others. In the book, Henderson peppers his partner with questions about each service, and Casper comments on everything from preaching to music to the geographical location of the churches. The take-home point, which is simultaneously simple, profound and of great importance to Christianity is, "Why are there such glaring discrepancies among churches regarding what it means to be a follower of Christ?" The two authors include some banal dialogue at times, but this is a minor distraction. Anyone interested in contemporary evangelism, especially pastors, will enjoy and learn from this humorous and heartening travelogue. (Apr.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From the Back Cover

“ Is this what Jesus told you guys to do?”

Light shows, fog machines, worship bands, offering plates―is this what Jesus intended? Atheist Matt Casper wants to know.

Longtime Christian Jim Henderson realized he’d been immersed in church culture for so long that he had no idea how a nonbeliever might interpret a usual Sunday service . . . or what might inspire him or her to come back.

So he decided to ask! Jim invited an atheist―Matt Casper―to visit twelve leading churches with him and give the “first impression” perspective of a skeptic. Week after week, this spiritual odd couple attended services at churches all over the country and documented their experiences and reactions. Along the way, they found the real value of their journey in the open and authentic friendship that developed as they talked, questioned, joked, and―most important―listened.

Follow along with Jim and Casper on their visits, and eavesdrop as they discuss what they found. Their articulate, sometimes humorous, and always insightful dialogue offers Christians a new view of an environment where we’ve become overly comfortable: the church.

Product details

  • ASIN ‏ : ‎ B008M73ELU
  • Publisher ‏ : ‎ Tyndale Momentum (April 1, 2007)
  • Publication date ‏ : ‎ April 1, 2007
  • Language ‏ : ‎ English
  • File size ‏ : ‎ 330 KB
  • Text-to-Speech ‏ : ‎ Enabled
  • Screen Reader ‏ : ‎ Supported
  • Enhanced typesetting ‏ : ‎ Enabled
  • X-Ray ‏ : ‎ Not Enabled
  • Word Wise ‏ : ‎ Enabled
  • Sticky notes ‏ : ‎ On Kindle Scribe
  • Print length ‏ : ‎ 207 pages
  • Customer Reviews:
    4.3 4.3 out of 5 stars 156 ratings

About the author

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Jim Henderson

Jim Henderson

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Jim Henderson is acclaimed by USA Today for having “blazed a new path as an innovator, author, church evaluator, self-professed subversive, and leader in the creation of new ways to be publicly and persuasively Christian in the twenty-first century.”

Jim is a speaker, author, and producer. His most subversive act to date was buying an atheist’s soul on eBay and then sending him to attend and review several churches. On the heels of that project, Jim hired another atheist (Matt Casper) to join him at various church services and share his feedback. Together, they recount their unique findings in a book titled Jim and Casper Go to Church (Tyndale, 2007).

After twenty-five years as a pastor, Jim formed Off the Map, an organization that produced live events designed to help people recover the lost art of being “unusually interested” in others, especially Outsiders.

Today, Jim’s company, Jim Henderson Presents, produces live events and television projects that look at the important role of religious spirituality in our lives. Jim is known for asking the questions others skip.

Jim holds a Doctorate in transformational leadership and has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Fox News and This American Life with Ira Glass.

Customer reviews

4.3 out of 5 stars
4.3 out of 5
156 global ratings

Top reviews from the United States

J. Nitta
5.0 out of 5 stars Really a good read but keep things in perspective
Reviewed in the United States on September 3, 2007
Verified Purchase
I just finished the book today (and this is my very first review). It's a quick read. Not much as far as in-depth analysis. In reality it's only the first impressions of someone who is not familiar with church culture. In some ways it feels like the script from a reality tv show. Funny, interesting, but something of substance is missing.
That being said, I think what is worth thinking about the book are exactly those first impressions, particularly the line, "Is this what Jesus told you guys to do." That, I think is, how the book cashes out. But I must admit I was torn...

One one hand, there are certain ancient traditions that Christians still practice today (the sacraments) that would be hard for any person outside of the Christian community to completely understand. In fact, it would be presumptuous for us to conclude that someone who is not a follower of Christ would understand theological concepts such as substitutionary atonement, imputation, justification, and sanctification. And before you shut me out because these concepts are "theological" - two things. First, pastors used to be sort of the theologian/philosopher/shepherd in their local community. They were less concerned with lights, smoke machines, and what have you, and really concerned about the state of people's souls. Second, these concepts work themselves out in how we live the Christian life in practical and often mundane ways. There's no way around this.

On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly that some of the practices that are a part of church today are not ancient but are new and in my opinion, kind of goofy. Some of the things that made Casper squirm are the very things that make me squirm. As a pastor I think there is much to consider here particularly when it comes to forcing community on people in sappy ways or giving the appearance that we are always happy, or as Dallas Willard likes to say, giving the impression that Christianity works in some sort of superficial magical way. We neglect the deep work of the Spirit in revealing both our virtues and vices that are deeply habituated in our hearts and minds.

I still get the feeling that I'm in on a postmodern conversation. For instance, "I love the teachings of Jesus. I love the teachings of Buddha." I'm not sure how to make sense of that. There are other hints that the Christian faith is not necessarily a reservoir of knowledge but rather one simply accepts it by faith. I'm not comfortable with that. I certainly understand why Jim would hold back and not "befriend" Casper so as to debate him about the nature of truth. I agree that we are not looking for certainty (like Descartes) but the tradition of Christianity is that you could know certain things were true without acting like a pompous jackass. If you're confused read J.P. Moreland's chapter 5 in "The Kingdom Triangle."

That being said, I think the book is worth reading. In fact, I laughed out loud in quite a few places agreeing wholeheartedly with Casper's thoughts. It's given me pause to think about ministry, my heart in all of this, and most importantly God's heart for people.
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Bill Dahl
4.0 out of 5 stars Contemplating 'Christitution'
Reviewed in the United States on May 13, 2007
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Contemplating `Christitution'

Henderson, Jim and Casper, Matt Jim & Casper Go To Church - Frank conversation about faith, churches and well-meaning Christians."

In his book, The Danger Habit (1) Mike Barrett writes: "And God needs some of us to be change makers, not routine sustainers, to live dangerously, not just enjoy reading about it, to pioneer new ways of thinking and living because the old ways are tired and boring." In my opinion, this quote succinctly characterizes the Jim Henderson's heart, motives and mission in life today --- the quote also captures the essence of his most recent book with Matt Casper, Jim & Casper Go To Church - Frank conversation about faith, churches and well-meaning Christians. This book is a first impression consideration of the U.S. institution of Christianity, or Christitution (my term), it's practices, adherents, rituals, structures from the perspective of an outsider (Matt Casper) and Jim Henderson (however you might characterize Jim beyond what I've said above, I'll leave that to you. Admittedly, this writer has a good deal of respect for Jim as a person and as a provocateur who desperately desires a more practical, biblical impact from those who claim the name of Christ).

It is noteworthy that this book is a BARNA book (Yes, George Barna) - Now an imprint of Tyndale House Publishers Inc. Perhaps this is a recognition by Barna that broadening the distribution channel through other, like-minded authors, the message the Barna Group has been attempting to deliver the past 20 plus years, can be even more effectively delivered by leveraging the Barna brand within the publishing industry to champion voices who would not be heard without the Barna endorsement --- I certainly hope so.

The soul of this book is captured in the Introduction, authored by George Barna: "Few religious leaders have any idea what it's like for an outsider to break into the holy huddle. Most churched people have been so immersed in the church world that they have completely lost touch with what it is like to come through the church door and try to fit into a place that has very distinct habits, language, goals, events, titles, architecture, traditions, expectations, and measurements." --- Enter Jim and Casper, a Christian and an atheist.

The book then rolls through a journey that includes visits to Saddleback, The Dream Center, Mosaic (Erwin McManus - L.A.), Willow Creek, First Pres in Chiocago, Lawndale, Jason's House, Imago Dei in Portland, OR, Mars Hill in Seattle, The Bridge in Portland, Lakewood in Houston and the Potter's House in Dallas.

The authors suggest that "This is the story of what happens when two guys with polar opposite worldviews go to church together" (p. xxix). Honestly, that's not the impression I took away. At Jim's own admission, "when two people begin to rust each other, they can learn to like each other. And when that happens, the rules change --- and then people change" (p.xxx). There's no question in my mind that these guys are a heck of a lot more "like-minded" in their "worldview" (whatever that is) before, during and after this endeavor, than the quote above would lead the reader to believe. It's not as if Matt (age 37) had never been to Church. He attended the Catholic Church during his youth and went to a Catholic university where he "began to become an atheist in college."

The critics will have a field day over this book (probably intentional, knowing what I do about Jim). I can hear them now, "Gimmicky, amusing, predictable, more mocking in the name of Jesus, an "extraordinary attempt" from a guy (Jim) whose last book possessed a central theme throughout that thumped the notion and need for "ordinary attempts." From purely a sociological, methodological standpoint, one could hardly consider this endeavor to be representative of what is commonly referred to as a prudent example of "participant observation."

To be fair, imagine that you arrive home one evening and there are two guys you've never met seated in your living room. They have their laptops open and are observing your family in action. You ask them "what are you doing?" They reply, "We're writing a book. He's an orphan and I'm a family guy. We're writing a book about the American family." You exchange niceties with them, change out of your work clothes and have dinner with your family. You hear the front door to your home close and see these two guys driving away down the street in their rental car. They were in your home approximately two hours and their impressions now become part of a book about "Jim and Casper Go To Family - Frank conversations about family, homes and the well-meaning people who hang out there." By the way, you never had any opportunity to review what they put in print, prior to publication --- no dialogue after-the-fact whatsoever. You get my drift...the means often define the result.

If one maintains the objectivity that is essential in reading a work like this, there are a myriad of terribly important observations and questions that arise within the book - observations and questions that legitimately demand debate. These issues are impregnated within the following excerpt: "Casper's question --- Jim, is this what Jesus told you guys to do? --- haunts me, insults me, and provokes me. We need to do better than this. We need to honestly admit that in fact, Jesus didn't care a whit about church services. He cared about loving and serving others and introducing people to a personal God who not only loves them, but more important, likes them" (p. 151).

Jim writes, "People need to hear the stories of everyday Christians helping others. People need to see us put into action what we say we believe" (p.151). Well, if that's the case, the focus of Jim's next book might be delving into these two statements. Look for Jim's next book entitled "On A Mission From God - Real Stories About Real People In Your Neighborhood Helping Others - Acting on What They Say They Believe." Perhaps the venue for this next book will be your own living room.

This book is something Christitution needs more of. Buy it. Savor it. Pray about it. Then act upon it. Change. Grow. Be challenged. Thanks to Jim and Matt for irrigating the pastures of Christitution with challenging ideas. Will this change the ways we flock together, our grazing practices, our behavior as observed by those who wander into the pastures of faith? Perhaps new ways of growing in spiritual sustenance are emerging outside the confines of the existing mainstream structural pastures of Christitution in the U.S.? Then again, maybe it's all about us, the sheep who need to change, as Jim says: "We are the ones who need to change---not our guests" (p.149).

Don't expect Joel Osteen to consider vacating the Compaq Center just yet.

(1) Barrett, Mike The Danger Habit, Multnomah Publishers, A Division of Random House, Inc. Copyright © 2006 by Mike Barrett, p.28.
24 people found this helpful
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James D Moore
5.0 out of 5 stars Jim
Reviewed in the United States on June 30, 2023
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This book was written very well and so true. They have such a great story behind what different types of religious beliefs
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Jeremy
5.0 out of 5 stars Great, sad read!
Reviewed in the United States on August 2, 2010
Verified Purchase
The book was excellent; as well as inventive. How outside of the box can you get than take an atheist to church to "rate" the church. I was intrigued to see what they would say about the large, well known mega churches in America. I was shocked at how often I agreed with Casper. The only thing, which I think was the point of the book, I felt I wanted to read more. Not necessarily more church ratings, but more in regards to now we know, or see, the problem and how do we fix it? Which is Jim Henderson's point... just getting us to look through different eyes. I really recommend this book to those who want to see how an atheist (not all, but Casper in particular) views what we do in the Sunday morning huddle. The one question that haunts me from the book is from Matt Casper (the Atheist), "Jim, did Jesus tell you (Christians) to do all of this?"

Great, sad read.
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Top reviews from other countries

Safari Dino
4.0 out of 5 stars A must read for church leaders
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on November 26, 2010
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A fantastic little book and very entertaining. All church leaders should sit up and take note of this, especially Casper's question "Is this what Jesus told you guys to do?"

My only gripe is that each church review is based solely on first impressions and sometimes Jim & Casper didn't even stay for the whole church meeting.

Despite this it's an excellent read.
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