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Logic. Please. Anywhere in this book. Please?

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Showing 1-24 of 24 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Sep 15, 2009, 10:48:51 PM PDT
Man, has he lost it. His arguments violate every rule in Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. Please, if you read this, at least check the facts. There are so much flawed rhetoric, made my head hurt. Beck and his ilk are great if no challenges them. They sway the simple, easily lead. Ad hominen attacks, labels applied, easy to dismiss others' views as simple and stupid. He is all that is wrong with the Right.

Demagoguery is the way of the day and FOX News did good getting Mr. Beck. Like watching some religious show. But I guess he is doing what he is paid to do, keep people off balance and angry. Sad little man.

Did Ann Coulture get a sex change?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2009, 8:36:11 AM PDT
So you read the book. That is very funny since the book isn't out yet. Also if you actually read the book you would knew that there are 25 pages of footnotes to where Glenn and this team found the information. They actually did research, they just didn't make things up like a lot of other people do.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 16, 2009, 2:10:30 PM PDT
dadanarchist says:
"Also if you actually read the book you would knew that there are 25 pages of footnotes to where Glenn and this team found the information."

Ohmigod I am soooooo impressed. As if footnotes prove anything. Spongebob had lots of footnotes in his wingnut welfare magnum opus, "Liberal Fascism: From Mussolini to the Day I Had to Beg for Spare Change to Keep the National Review Afloat," and having parsed them, he misinterpreted every book and article he read that was not written by another wingnut.

Also: 25 pages of footnotes for a 300+ page book? Not that many, really. I have a history book sitting here in front of me that is 229 pages of text and is accompanied by 48 pages of notes in a font smaller than the text.

Now, granted, Beck's book will be printed in large type to make up for the lack of "there there" as one might say, but the same principle would apply to the footnotes in any case.

As for his research, he undoubtedly tapped the same fever swamp of ex-Klansmen, Birchers, nativists and Flat Earthers that he uses on his ridiculous, yet oddly compelling (in a Surrealist/Dadaist/car crash kinda way) show....

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 7:09:16 AM PDT
So basically what you are saying is that if someone says something you don't like or don't agree with you attack the person. Here is an idea, prove him wrong. Attack what he is saying. Show all the evidence that Glenn is so very, very wrong. Oh that right, you can't.

So many people attack Glenn, but never what he is saying. I find this interesting. It says a lot about Glenn and the people who disagree with him.

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 7:47:23 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 17, 2009, 7:48:01 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 17, 2009, 7:50:53 AM PDT
J. R. Feld says:
Teach me your powers of future travel! The book is not availabel until Tuesday of next week! How can you comment on something you have not read? The title obviously refers to closed minded people of your ilk!

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 9:04:54 AM PDT
The O.P doesn't like when Glenn puts out a book on how to deal with his ilk.

Just like the rest of the negative comments. Some people just HATE being exposed for the morons they are.

Thank you Mr. Beck

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 17, 2009, 9:25:35 AM PDT
I have Beck's book in my hand, and it's been on my shelf for a week. I work in a library & libraries and bookstores get copies sometimes 2 weeks ahead of release. There are also galley proofs and advance copies sent out to reviewers and wholesalers ahead of time to let them review or set order levels for new books. No big deal. I was reading the new Dan Brown last week, but the public doesn't see the book until release date.

Herb the Librarian

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 17, 2009, 10:37:57 AM PDT
dadanarchist says:
"is that if someone says something you don't like or don't agree with you attack the person."

Yes, that's called argument. If someone says something I disagree with, I attempt to find something wrong with their argument and disprove it. I understand that this process, which is the cornerstone of Western Civilization, has now been reclassified by the cry-baby right as "fascism" and "oppression" but I must respectfully point out that they are full of sheezat.

"Here is an idea, prove him wrong."

How can I prove Glenn Beck wrong? He is a pundit, and he produces opinion (or hot air, depending on one's point of view). And mostly wildly unsubstantiated and borderline insane opinion at that.

For example: he said the president "has a deep seated hatred of white people" and his proof is.... what? That Obama said Skip Gates shouldn't have been arrested while standing in his own home. That he didn't automatically trust a cop? Uh, both those positions sound like conservative positions to me, but hey, whatever!

Or how about Beck's assertion that Cass Sunstein is an extremist because he once sat in a conference and was in an edited volume alongside Peter Singer - talk about guilt by association. David Frum has defended Sunstein from Beck's absurd smears, as have other conservatives.

"So many people attack Glenn, but never what he is saying."

This is transparently wrong. Nobody cared about Beck until he started ranting and raving like the town loon, except on national tv, while attempting to mainstream extremist positions, often adopted from Mormon radicals, John Birch society propaganda, and neo-Confederate propaganda outfits.

"It says a lot about Glenn"

What is truly interesting is who attacks Beck - a spectrum of people, from right to left, who'd like to see the public discourse of this country move from demagoguery and stupidity to civil and reasonable debate. Its the same reason people attack Lou Dobbs, or Keith Olbermann for that matter.

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 4:38:51 PM PDT
luv2fly says:
dadanarchist, how did I know I'd find you on this thread too?! I don't have all night to write and argue so I'll just throw this out. You want to know about Cass Sunstein being called an extremist for example? When someone writes a book in which he states things to the effect of "animals should have the same rights as humans and a right to human representation to SUE other humans in a court of law", or, isn't he the same one who (or was it one of the other extremist czars?) also said, in writing, in a book, that we need "population control even in the form of FORCED ABORTIONS and/or sterilants added to the public drinking water"...THAT doesn't sound just the SLIGHTEST bit "extremist" to you? Do I need to go on? I mean, that's just a couple crystals from the tip of the iceburg, there is SO much more one could go on all night. Now these ARE facts! These are the kinds of things that these "czars" have written in books and it is proven, it is documented...how much more "fact" does one need? Add to that the fact that these are the kinds of people Obama is surrounding himself with...THAT'S not some kind of cause for alarm? Obama himself in one of his debates did say to look at the people he surrounds himself with as advisors when he makes decisions. C'mon people, these are the kinds of goofballs we have setting our course, doesn't anything sound a little screwed up?

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 4:53:29 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 19, 2009, 5:21:22 AM PDT]

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 4:54:10 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 19, 2009, 5:18:57 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 17, 2009, 4:56:56 PM PDT
dadanarchist says:
Your basic problem is that you all take Glenn Beck's word for it, and you take his interpretation and spin of his targets' positions, policies, words or acts as what actually happened. In nearly every case, when you dig into what the people *actually* said you immediately discover that Beck has edited/excerpted in such a way that makes his target seem much more radical than they really are.

On Sunstein and animal rights: here are several conservative commentators, including Tim Mak, Julian Sanchez and David Frum, refuting Beck's nonsense:
Mak: http://www.newmajority.com/who-is-cass-sunstein
Frum: http://www.newmajority.com/gop-surrenders-to-becks-mob-rule
Sanchez: http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/04/30/lying-about-cass-sunstein/

I assume in the second part about "forced abortions and sterilization" you are talking about John Holdren; here is the non-partisan PolitiFact website on Beck's allegation:

They rated it a "pants on fire" moment...

Any other czars you'd like to talk about?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 17, 2009, 5:03:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 17, 2009, 5:11:55 PM PDT
dadanarchist says:
"I think that people like dadanarchist are a little nervous because they are being exposed and don't have a leg to stand on."

I'm not nervous, just amused that with all the conservatives defending Beck and attacking his critics, nobody has yet been able to come up with Beck's "facts." I still have 2 legs to stand on, last I checked.

"After all they are the ones that support ACORN etc."

I don't support ACORN - I don't care one way or the other about ACORN. The last I cared about ACORN was when they were union busting their own employees and a signed a petition condemning that action.

"The tide is turning and they are getting antsy and shrill"

Nope: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/bounce-yes-game-changer-well-see.html

"Shut up and go get a job and pull you head out of your ass and look around."

Got a job, great job. I can see just fine, thanks, just had my prescription filled last month.

Posted on Sep 17, 2009, 6:06:37 PM PDT
" "is that if someone says something you don't like or don't agree with you attack the person."

Yes, that's called argument. If someone says something I disagree with, I attempt to find something wrong with their argument and disprove it. I understand that this process, which is the cornerstone of Western Civilization, has now been reclassified by the cry-baby right as "fascism" and "oppression" but I must respectfully point out that they are full of sheezat."

Really. The last I check in the Western Civilization, when you argue you don't attack the person. You go after the Idea. You prove the Idea wrong. Its when you can't prove what the person is saying is wrong you attack the person. Bring the person down and then no one will believe the truth that the person is telling.

Serious you want to bring up Gates. Gates was wrong, plain and simple. If I forgot my keys and had to break into my house. And my neighbor sees it and didn't know it was me. I would want them to call the Cop. And when the Cop showed up I would treat him with respect, not SCREAM RACIST. Do you suggest that all robbers should do is say I live here and cops are just suppose to leave?

So now when someone presents facts you don't like you call it opinion. Have you ever watched, listened, or read Glenn Beck. He shows lots of facts. Open you eyes and your mind maybe you will learn something.

Posted on Sep 18, 2009, 12:28:25 AM PDT
For anyone interested in fact-checking Beck's claims, Media Matters does a daily debunking here:

or go to http://mediamatters.org/ and type in Glenn Beck.

And to Shaadow Knight (misspelling or lame attempt at cute?): No one quoted in the media EVER thought the police should take Gates' word for it. They thought they should have politely apologized and left when he DID prove he lived there. Instead, they hauled him off to jail on a disorderly conduct charge that they later, wisely, dropped. It's this sort of distortion that right-wingers spew out that drive the rest of us nuts. Proof right here. But it won't make a whit of difference to a closed mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2009, 6:57:10 AM PDT
First, do you have anything other then Media Matters. It not like they don't have an agenda of their own. And they debunk Glenn with a bunch of pictures that prove nothing. They could have been take at any time at any place.

Second, you might want to look into the Gates thing again. You are distorting things at all.

And with that I am done. If I keep this up it will just keep going on forever. Everyone thinks they are right. No matter what anyone else says they will not change their minds. We could show you clear proof and you still wouldn't believe us. If you don't want to believe anything is wrong in this country right now. Well that your choice. I hope there is more of us then you. I don't want to lose this country. I don't want to lose America.

I for one do not take Glenn Becks words as Gospel. I don't take anyone word for it. Any news person, commentator, or random person I meet. I look into things. I find them for myself.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.", Thomas Jefferson

Try questioning something sometime. Actually look into the things Glenn does. Don't just assume that because its from Glenn it must be wrong.

I follow Becks because he does research too, unlike it seem all of main stream media. We have similar beliefs. The same principles and values. He questions everything. I can't wait for this book, because it will help with research. I trust what he says because I know he is right. And when he is wrong he admits it. Unlike anyone else in the media it seems. I trust someone that says 'This is what I have found, now go look it up yourself' more than 'This is the truth'.

So from now on if I do respond it will be with proof links and all. If you still don't agree after that. There is nothing I can do. I just hope that you will do the same. Show the proof supporting you side and not attacking the people on my side. You know the way arguments are suppose to work.

And you are wrong on both accounts on the name. I have signed up on other sites. ShadowKnight was already taken. I didn't want ShadowKnight99 or something like that. So I went with ShaadowKnight and it stuck.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 3:37:47 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2009, 4:06:43 AM PDT

You accuse these others of "not questioning." Frankly, you are projecting.

You also accuse these folks "on the left" of assassinating Beck's character and calling names rather than using factual argument. Again, projecting. Look closely, this is exactly what the likes of Beck is doing. His claims have no substance. When you peel away the tears and spin, the smoke and mirrors, there is just no substance. He's getting rich off of your prejudices (Note: I did NOT say racism.) You seem to be a member of a group of people that for whatever reason, do not want this president/administration to succeed. So for you, whatever mud is thrown, in your mind, it sticks and you are filled with glee. You yell, "Ah ha!" If you check your facts with FOX news, here's a news flash, FOX news is not news at all. And really, I'm not going to say CNN or MSNBC are a whole lot better.

If you want fair news, watch PBS news. The last bastion of American Journalism. Listen to NPR. Or watch BBC.

Beck is merely stirring a pot that easy to stir because there is a small base of people out there who WANT to see it this way; who WANT to hear the slander and believe the lies. It's a prime opportunity, all he has to do is give you what you want to hear, and for you, it rings your "truth" bell. But that doesn't at all make it true or real.

The sad thing is, there are issues, legitimate ones. And if we could do away with all the BS, lower our voices and let go of the paranoia and bile, America could benefit. We could use a reasonable opposition party to the one in power, but what we have instead is people like Beck and Limbaugh, manipulating you all to the tune of millions of dollars. It's as easy as selling anti-american rhetoric to the Taliban. Doesn't take a genius. And republican politics is now nothing more than a party whose solitary goal and platform is to make the other party fail at any cost. Whether its good for the country or not, makes no difference to them, because they're not really out for America, they're out for their own benefit.

It is truly the most un-American "patriotic" bunch I have seen in all my years and it's not appreciated.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 9:05:57 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 26, 2009, 9:14:48 AM PDT
macpaine says:
I just reviewed the websites dadanarchist provided, and would like to comment on Holdren since his views are the most chilling. The websites seem to try very hard to present Holdren's views fairly and in context. Given that, it's interesting that no where in his academic dissection of options such as forced abortion, and adding "sterilants" to food or water does Holdren express any sense of revulsion, nor does he indicate that these measures, in and of themselves, are the epitome of government control over our bodies. He recognizes that the very thought of a government's surreptitiously dosing its citizenry with sterilants "seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control," but his only reaction is a cool observation that it would "pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems." What about ethical questions? The ethical questions don't merit the attention of the technical problems?

Now, later, the authors of this frightening little dissertation acknowledge that such measures as compulsory (i.e. forced) abortion and sterilants in water and food are "unpalatable" to "most societies," yet they never indicate that the authors themselves have any problem with these "measures."
The red herring that these statements were made when Holdren was young would be more persuasive if he had ever decisevly renounced them later when he was more mature. Sure, we all change our views over time about things, and moral growth on his part would be laudable, but saying that he has never been a "proponent" of such measures is much less convincing than hearing that he is now opposed to such measures. The active voice (I am opposed) is much more believable than a passive statement (I have not been a proponent).

Part of what conservatives fear is the seeming ability of people like Holdren to cooly and dispassionately discuss things that we consider to be revolting abominations. For a sense of this,you might try replacing the words child, fetus, population, human etc. in these writings with words like "baby seal," "Mother Earth," "ecosystem," rain forest---" you get the idea.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 12:31:56 PM PDT
When you make accusations of this nature, you need to back it up. Please provide examples of your criticisms if you want to be taken seriously. Your bitter, cowardly attacks will never convince anyone that you are correct unless you support it. Considering that Fox News has a majority of the marketshare, you must think most Americans are as mislead as Beck.

And why the cheap shot on Ann? Is it just SOP to make personal attacks when you are defeated intellectually???

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 1:07:24 PM PDT
Wow, you obviously didn't even read the book or you would have noticed the 25 or so pages with sources of factual information supporting his arguments. Really. You lefties need a new game plan. You all sound the same, like idiots.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 1:12:41 PM PDT
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's the left's only argument when proven wrong. Trash the messenger. If that doesn't work, then try to silence them. Boycott!! A lefty will argue the sky isn't blue till they fall over dead if the blue sky doesn't suit their agenda.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2009, 9:08:55 PM PDT
Matt Poole says:
Well, I suppose the left would indeed argue the sky isn't blue--because it's not. It just looks that way. Not to mention just because someone says something is a fact, doesn't mean it is. In realtiy, the all truths are merely based on a true story--and most of the arguments presented here (and yes, I've read the book) are based on stories that seem almost on par with paranoid fairy tales. Every now and then he says something I agree with, but just as with his enemies on the Left--he's just trying to further push an agenda. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are no better or worse than Keith Olbermann and his kind. They're basically the same people who will just say anything to try and make their enemies look like liars.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 1, 2009, 4:25:49 PM PDT
N. Diaz says:
Logic? Ugh Mister McNeel Junior, your post makes no sense and is illogical. First of all please check your spelling, you are a disgrace to Vulcans everywhere. The proper spelling is "Ad Hominem". Your post is the very definition of "Ad Hominem"! You post no logical response to any points made by Mr. Beck. Junior before you use big words like demagoguery, please look them up in the dictionary. I believe that when you do, your logical conclusion will be that one now occupies the White House and somehow managed to sneak past you baloney detection kit. Perhaps you can get your money back and buy Mr. Beck's book and maybe actually read it.

As for your closing sentence, I believe you are referring to Ms. Ann Coulter. Perhaps there is an Ann Coulture I've never heard of? If that is the case please excuse my logical inclination to view you as an idiot without a dictionary. I can just vaguely understand your comment if I imagine myself back in the first grade...very childish.

But please let me thank you for your post. It should be clear to all that read it, that we can save our country from the moral and mental midgets on the left.
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