Awful. The book rests it's arguments on inaccurate interpretations of small segments of history, then extrapolates unreasonable explanations of highly exaggerated, contemporanious social relations, and provides nonsensical conclusions to solving these dubious claims. For example, the assertion that slavery began in 1562 neglects nearly 10,000 years of British history. This including nearly 2000 years of written history that discusses the enslavement of many groups of people from the native Britons during the Roman period to the forced colonial expansion of slave colonies of Celts, Scots, debtors, prisoners, and the white English poor in the 17th through 19th centuries. The ramifications of which in the latter example were seen in White-on-White conflict up through the end of the last century in places such as Belfast. Ms. Eddo-Lodge asserts that the underlying problem is racism which manifests itself in the form of "White Privilege." However, Ms. Eddo-Lodge fails to explain why non-White, Asian populations, primarily from former colonial holding India, perform higher than native Whites who have this alleged insidious and pernicious "privilege." For example:
- More than 75% of British Indian students in England get five or more “good” GCSEs, compared to 61% of white British students.
- 14% of British Indian students obtain three A* or A grades or better at A‑level compared to 10% for white British students.
- 26% of British Indian students in England go on to a top-flight university, compared with 15% of their White, British classmates.
- More of the Indian British go into professions per capita, such as medicine, compared to their White counterparts.
- British Indians are barely 2% of the population, but account for 12% of all doctors.
This book is Leftist propaganda, either intentionally or inadvertently, and reinforces an ideology of tribalism and segregation. Whereas racism and other forms of ignorance exist in small-scale parts of any mixed population, the exaggeration of problems found in this book only leads to more problems and less understanding.
Don't waste your money. Check out Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, or Shelby Steele instead if you are interested in the historic, socio-economic condition of Blacks in European nations or former European colonies.
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Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race MP3 CD – MP3 Audio, September 26, 2017
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LanguageEnglish
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PublisherAudible Studios on Brilliance Audio
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Publication dateSeptember 26, 2017
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Dimensions6.75 x 5.5 x 0.5 inches
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ISBN-101543641172
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ISBN-13978-1543641172
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Editorial Reviews
About the Author
Reni Eddo-Lodge is a British journalist and author. Her writing primarily focuses on feminism and exposing structural racism.
Reni Eddo-Lodge is a British journalist and author. Her writing primarily focuses on feminism and exposing structural racism.
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Product details
- Publisher : Audible Studios on Brilliance Audio; Unabridged edition (September 26, 2017)
- Language : English
- ISBN-10 : 1543641172
- ISBN-13 : 978-1543641172
- Item Weight : 3.5 ounces
- Dimensions : 6.75 x 5.5 x 0.5 inches
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Best Sellers Rank:
#2,756,067 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
- #6,322 in Civil Rights & Liberties (Books)
- #12,156 in Discrimination & Racism (Books)
- #14,985 in People of African Descent & Black Studies
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Reviewed in the United States on August 25, 2018
328 people found this helpful
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Reviewed in the United States on January 30, 2018
Verified Purchase
The fact that this book still has to be written is heart breaking as well as bone chilling. I am much older than this woman, born on a different continent, and into a different cultural background. The only thing that links our stories is that we are both black women. And the soul of the story is the same,some of the experiences are exactly the same, and all of the frustration is completely felt and understood. I am overwhelmed by ms. Lodge's ability to put into bold , succinct words concepts that I don't think I ever had the ability to manage. I thank her for that. I spent an hour writing this review because the tears would not stop mainly because of the world my children live in is even more difficult than the one I have inherited. History has shown however, that no matter how slow and convoluted progress is ,hope for a better tomorrow will prevail.
317 people found this helpful
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Reviewed in the United States on March 27, 2019
Verified Purchase
I’ve only read about 1/3. It is very sobering.
As an American, the British perspective is informative and interesting. I am white, in my 60’s and I grew up in the Southern part of the USA. I definitely was taught “revisionist history” as a child. I wish that I had a clue as to what to do bring about reconciliation. I do realize that my life has been privileged and I haven’t had the same obstacles to overcome.
Having only read 1/3, I’m not sure what conclusions the author hopes I will come to, and if I will learn of positive steps I can take.
As an American, the British perspective is informative and interesting. I am white, in my 60’s and I grew up in the Southern part of the USA. I definitely was taught “revisionist history” as a child. I wish that I had a clue as to what to do bring about reconciliation. I do realize that my life has been privileged and I haven’t had the same obstacles to overcome.
Having only read 1/3, I’m not sure what conclusions the author hopes I will come to, and if I will learn of positive steps I can take.
76 people found this helpful
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Reviewed in the United States on June 12, 2020
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I just finished this book. When I first picked it up, I was apparently assuming all anti-racist literature were written for Americans. While I found the beginning interesting, I thought "this is about racism in the UK, I need to learn about racism in my country." I stopped reading and found other books to engage in. After a while, I picked this book up again and was stuck by how relevant the topics were to life in America. How I'm seeing (or not seeing) many of the same issues. I would highly recommend this book to anyone. The writing is amazing and the points she makes are well thought out and explained. I'm so thankful she took the time to write this book!
40 people found this helpful
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Reviewed in the United States on June 25, 2020
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Confusing, frustrating and very difficult to follow. That said, I was glad to be able to learn more about racism and feminism/inequality in Europe/Britain. After reading the book with an ending that you have to see coming a few miles away (easy targets all) my only real takeaway is that the author may have done more damage than good as perhaps the only real result will be that now fewer white people will be willing to talk to anyone about race. AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.
Are you part of the movement? in this day an age, you have no choice, but you do have a choice as to whether you want to be part of the solution or just part of the problem. So sad
Are you part of the movement? in this day an age, you have no choice, but you do have a choice as to whether you want to be part of the solution or just part of the problem. So sad
24 people found this helpful
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Reviewed in the United States on November 5, 2018
Verified Purchase
My unfamiliarity with the designations of British officials aside I found this work to be informative, very relatable, and extremely relevant for the current time. As a black American we often don’t know how “blackness” is treated in other parts of the world because we are so subsumed with the treatment here. In a sense this book starts as a bit of an origin story and then transforms into a nostalgic conversation you could have had with anyone in your family.
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Reviewed in the United States on November 29, 2020
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Typical book about how everything is white people's fault. With even more ridiculous "solutions". Not the worst book I've ever read, atleast as an American I got a British perspective.
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Reviewed in the United States on May 24, 2018
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This book provides an eloquent and thought-provoking analysis of institutionalized, subtly insidious racism that must be acknowledged by everyone in order to be eradicated. Even though the British author focuses on racism in the UK, her findings and analyses applied to life in the USA, too (and I expect the same applies for many other countries). Highly recommended!
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Paul
3.0 out of 5 stars
Good subject not given justice it deserves
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on October 3, 2018Verified Purchase
I bought this book after a recommendation from a friend. It is easy to read and covered many points that are being addressed and still need more work however I was ultimately confused by how the author would help this process by writing in such a way. The overall impression of the book is that it was written to support a conclusion was there at the beginning (almost certainly true as it was basically an extension of a blog written years earlier) and that despite wanting to be seen as the serious work of an academic it lacks balance, uses statistics lazily, and most importantly doesn't take into account how human beings of all races think and act. It left me thinking that the reason she didn't speak to white people anymore about race was because she only wanted to speak to people who agreed her.
No one today would defend the slave trade however no mention is made that it wasn't a white only activity, she claims that information about the issue is not easily available as if there is some type of conspiracy to keep it a secret but I didn't read anything new in her book. She doesn't mention the African pirates that plundered northern European countries in the 17th century, taking an estimated 35,000 slaves from the UK alone. You can't argue about the numbers or in any way try to take away the despicable actions of white slavers an historical and human perspective helps when viewing it from a 21st century perspective.
Some examples of her sloppy use of statistics are: She negatively points out in one chapter that 70% of university professors are white and in another chapter agrees with Nick Griffin that 81% of the people in the UK were white. The first prove that black people weren't given the same opportunities in universities and the second to prove that white people were the majority in the UK. This second point added fuel to another assertion that you can only be racist if you were the majority race and/or had power. Black people, in her opinion, can never be racist in the UK.
She talks about the number of black children waiting for adoption compared to white children, another sign of racism. Any serious investigator would be interested in look a bit further, e.g. Is the percentage of black children needing adoption higher than other races?, Is the rate of single mothers higher? Are black people less likely to adopt than white people? Do white shy away from adopting black children and if so why? You can't just use statistics to prove your point without a full understanding of what the statistic actually means.
She also discusses a London borough where the percentage of very poor people is very high and the majority of them are black. What she doesn't do is look a bit deeper and ask about percentages that relate to recent immigrants vs established ones. I don't know the answer but it would help to understand the underlying issues which may or may not have anything to do with colour.
There were many other weaknesses, opinions of someone she has spoken to are presented facts, she is happy to blame racism for all sorts of actions, one being the recent attempt by the NHS to recover money from health tourists. Most people in the UK supported this action but it was racist asking to see passports apparently. Lastly she doesn't really recognise the changes that we have seen in society over the last few decades, it may not be perfect (it never will be) but a balanced view always helps
No one today would defend the slave trade however no mention is made that it wasn't a white only activity, she claims that information about the issue is not easily available as if there is some type of conspiracy to keep it a secret but I didn't read anything new in her book. She doesn't mention the African pirates that plundered northern European countries in the 17th century, taking an estimated 35,000 slaves from the UK alone. You can't argue about the numbers or in any way try to take away the despicable actions of white slavers an historical and human perspective helps when viewing it from a 21st century perspective.
Some examples of her sloppy use of statistics are: She negatively points out in one chapter that 70% of university professors are white and in another chapter agrees with Nick Griffin that 81% of the people in the UK were white. The first prove that black people weren't given the same opportunities in universities and the second to prove that white people were the majority in the UK. This second point added fuel to another assertion that you can only be racist if you were the majority race and/or had power. Black people, in her opinion, can never be racist in the UK.
She talks about the number of black children waiting for adoption compared to white children, another sign of racism. Any serious investigator would be interested in look a bit further, e.g. Is the percentage of black children needing adoption higher than other races?, Is the rate of single mothers higher? Are black people less likely to adopt than white people? Do white shy away from adopting black children and if so why? You can't just use statistics to prove your point without a full understanding of what the statistic actually means.
She also discusses a London borough where the percentage of very poor people is very high and the majority of them are black. What she doesn't do is look a bit deeper and ask about percentages that relate to recent immigrants vs established ones. I don't know the answer but it would help to understand the underlying issues which may or may not have anything to do with colour.
There were many other weaknesses, opinions of someone she has spoken to are presented facts, she is happy to blame racism for all sorts of actions, one being the recent attempt by the NHS to recover money from health tourists. Most people in the UK supported this action but it was racist asking to see passports apparently. Lastly she doesn't really recognise the changes that we have seen in society over the last few decades, it may not be perfect (it never will be) but a balanced view always helps
2,430 people found this helpful
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A Reader
1.0 out of 5 stars
An unfortunate and predictable diatribe
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on March 2, 2020Verified Purchase
I bought this book because I was intrigued by the title. I hadn’t heard of the author and, logically speaking, a book with such a title could have been written by someone of any ethnicity. Yet I just knew, even before the book dropped through my letterbox, that the writer would be black.
So why has Ms. Eddo-Lodge stopped ‘talking to white people about race’? Essentially because she doesn’t like the way white people respond – even her friends. She can’t understand why ‘their eyes glaze over in boredom or widen in indignation’, why they just don’t ‘get it’. She tells us:
‘I can’t continue to emotionally exhaust myself trying to get my message across, while also toeing a very precarious line that tries not to implicate any one white person in their role in perpetuating structural racism, lest they character assassinate me.’
Poor thing. Heaven forbid that someone might take exception to being told that because they are white they are racist, or that they might ‘character assassinate’ her by having the gall to question her characterization of them.
It comes as no surprise to discover what she thinks is the source of the ‘structural racism’ that supposedly plagues Britain today – in a word, slavery. She concedes that prior to studying black history in her second year at university her knowledge of history was lacking. It shows. Her take on things is basic and highly selective. There is no mention of slavery being commonplace in Africa long before any European involvement and only a hint of the key part African blacks played in the slave trade. There is only grudging acknowledgement of the important role that Britain played (and continues to play) in abolishing slavery. But what is most lacking is any sense of historical context. It is as though she thinks that the average white person’s ancestors lived in the lap of luxury on the ‘white wealth amassed from the profits of slavery’, when if she knew anything about history she would know that even in the latter part of the period in question, those ancestors – including those of her white friends – were more likely to have lived in abject poverty, one step away from the workhouse, their children routinely sent down mines or up chimneys. Against this background her comments about ‘profits from slavery seeping into the fabric of British society’ are profoundly disingenuous – merely a way of unjustifiably allotting blame hundreds of years after the fact on the basis of nothing other than skin colour. The simple fact is that Eddo-Lodge’s white friends should no more feel ‘embarrassed’ by slavery than she should be embarrassed by the involvement of her own antecedents in cannibalism, human sacrifice, or indeed slavery.
The supposed ‘historical’ analysis jumps from slavery to a string of examples of racism in 20th century Britain, with no connection other than the ongoing assumption that white people are racist. In the ensuing chapters there are the usual tropes about institutional racism, white privilege, a digression into feminism - another of the author’s gripes – and social class. But there is nothing new or original – not one thing - just a succession of selective anecdotes and personal hang-ups. There is certainly no serious sociological or political analysis, and as polemic we’ve heard it all before.
In trotting out the usual well-worn grievances Eddo-Lodge simply repeats the same logical mistakes. Her text is littered with examples of erroneous thinking. For example, according to her reasoning, because a) most privileged people are white it follows that b) most white people are privileged. This is equivalent to saying that because a) most kings are human beings, then b) most human beings are kings. Eddo-Lodge is fond of casting aspersions about white people not ‘getting’ her point yet this is evidently something she doesn’t ‘get’. Yes, it is true that in the UK those who are rich and powerful, or who own land or property, or who have the best jobs or the highest salaries, etc., tend to be white. Statistically, this is only to be expected given that the majority of the population is white. And there are clear historical, political and sociological explanations for how these people came to have the advantages they do, explanations which by and large have nothing to do with race. This advantaged group is, by definition, a minority – it is not logically possible for most people to have the best jobs, the highest salaries, etc. Is it unfair that this minority has these privileges? Certainly, in some respects yes. However – and this is the point that Eddo-Lodge obviously doesn’t get – to the extent that this state of affairs is unfair, it is just as unfair to the average white person as it is to the average black person.
No doubt the reason Eddo-Lodge’s white friends ‘eyes glaze over in boredom’ whenever she talks about race is precisely because they have heard it all before. But if Ms. Eddo-Lodge wants to know why her friends’ eyes might, as she says, ‘widen in indignation’ I can enlighten her.
Like everyone else, Eddo-Lodge’s white friends will be aware of the extraordinary lengths the UK has gone to over the past half-century or more to encourage and accommodate black inclusion. The UK has changed its laws, introduced no end of initiatives and directed considerable public funds to that end. Her friends will also know that the UK has a long history of welcoming immigrants from around the world. In short, there are few if any countries that could be said to be less racist than the UK.
One of the more visible efforts to increase black inclusion is to be found in the media. Black faces are now everywhere on TV; on the main terrestrial TV channels it would be difficult to find a programme that doesn’t have an overrepresentation of black presenters, reporters, actors, etc., one that is out of all proportion to the relative size of the black community. Anyone who doubts this should try counting the number of TV adverts that don’t have black actors. In its current drive to include black actors in any and every drama the BBC stretches dramatic credibility to the point where it risks ridicule. And note that it is specifically black inclusion that is being accommodated here. Indeed, one could be forgiven for thinking that Black/Black British was the largest minority group in the UK, yet it is less than half the size of the Asian/Asian British population which enjoys nowhere near the same levels of representation in the media.
Of course none of this is acknowledged in Eddo-Lodge’s conveniently skewed reading of things or in her purposefully selective approach to the facts. And there is something else that her friends will be all too aware of, something that, again, is conspicuously absent from Eddo-Lodge’s account. Her white friends will know that whenever the media carries reports of the perpetrators of crime there is a good chance that the faces looking back at them will be black. The fact is that the black community places a disproportionately high burden on the criminal justice system with far higher levels of knife crime, drug dealing and robbery than other sections of the UK population. Black families are more likely to be single parent families, and the black community draws disproportionately on social services, on health, education and the benefits system. Of course none of this is about skin colour – being black doesn’t cause someone to commit crime or abandon their own children - but it is about attitude, perspective and values.
And here we come to the nub of the issue and the essential problem with this book. For however much many in the black community strive to be part of British society, and through their talents and hard work make a valuable and important contribution to society, there remains a sizable and unduly vocal minority who are intent on portraying themselves as victims, as continually hard done by. They find fault and take exception to anything and everything, automatically characterizing any and every situation or circumstance as a consequence of being black – an attitude so prevalent that it is now frequently caricatured by comedians with the expression: ‘It’s coz I is black innit’. It is precisely this undercurrent of self-pitying, sniping resentment that informs this book, a book that is unashamedly prejudiced and intolerant. I was safe in assuming that its author would be black – not, for example, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Chinese – because even the very title betrays this selfsame characteristic attitude of ungracious, caustic negativity. We do indeed have a problem with racism in the UK and this ill-informed and unfortunate book serves to illustrate the problem – but not in the way the author thinks.
So why has Ms. Eddo-Lodge stopped ‘talking to white people about race’? Essentially because she doesn’t like the way white people respond – even her friends. She can’t understand why ‘their eyes glaze over in boredom or widen in indignation’, why they just don’t ‘get it’. She tells us:
‘I can’t continue to emotionally exhaust myself trying to get my message across, while also toeing a very precarious line that tries not to implicate any one white person in their role in perpetuating structural racism, lest they character assassinate me.’
Poor thing. Heaven forbid that someone might take exception to being told that because they are white they are racist, or that they might ‘character assassinate’ her by having the gall to question her characterization of them.
It comes as no surprise to discover what she thinks is the source of the ‘structural racism’ that supposedly plagues Britain today – in a word, slavery. She concedes that prior to studying black history in her second year at university her knowledge of history was lacking. It shows. Her take on things is basic and highly selective. There is no mention of slavery being commonplace in Africa long before any European involvement and only a hint of the key part African blacks played in the slave trade. There is only grudging acknowledgement of the important role that Britain played (and continues to play) in abolishing slavery. But what is most lacking is any sense of historical context. It is as though she thinks that the average white person’s ancestors lived in the lap of luxury on the ‘white wealth amassed from the profits of slavery’, when if she knew anything about history she would know that even in the latter part of the period in question, those ancestors – including those of her white friends – were more likely to have lived in abject poverty, one step away from the workhouse, their children routinely sent down mines or up chimneys. Against this background her comments about ‘profits from slavery seeping into the fabric of British society’ are profoundly disingenuous – merely a way of unjustifiably allotting blame hundreds of years after the fact on the basis of nothing other than skin colour. The simple fact is that Eddo-Lodge’s white friends should no more feel ‘embarrassed’ by slavery than she should be embarrassed by the involvement of her own antecedents in cannibalism, human sacrifice, or indeed slavery.
The supposed ‘historical’ analysis jumps from slavery to a string of examples of racism in 20th century Britain, with no connection other than the ongoing assumption that white people are racist. In the ensuing chapters there are the usual tropes about institutional racism, white privilege, a digression into feminism - another of the author’s gripes – and social class. But there is nothing new or original – not one thing - just a succession of selective anecdotes and personal hang-ups. There is certainly no serious sociological or political analysis, and as polemic we’ve heard it all before.
In trotting out the usual well-worn grievances Eddo-Lodge simply repeats the same logical mistakes. Her text is littered with examples of erroneous thinking. For example, according to her reasoning, because a) most privileged people are white it follows that b) most white people are privileged. This is equivalent to saying that because a) most kings are human beings, then b) most human beings are kings. Eddo-Lodge is fond of casting aspersions about white people not ‘getting’ her point yet this is evidently something she doesn’t ‘get’. Yes, it is true that in the UK those who are rich and powerful, or who own land or property, or who have the best jobs or the highest salaries, etc., tend to be white. Statistically, this is only to be expected given that the majority of the population is white. And there are clear historical, political and sociological explanations for how these people came to have the advantages they do, explanations which by and large have nothing to do with race. This advantaged group is, by definition, a minority – it is not logically possible for most people to have the best jobs, the highest salaries, etc. Is it unfair that this minority has these privileges? Certainly, in some respects yes. However – and this is the point that Eddo-Lodge obviously doesn’t get – to the extent that this state of affairs is unfair, it is just as unfair to the average white person as it is to the average black person.
No doubt the reason Eddo-Lodge’s white friends ‘eyes glaze over in boredom’ whenever she talks about race is precisely because they have heard it all before. But if Ms. Eddo-Lodge wants to know why her friends’ eyes might, as she says, ‘widen in indignation’ I can enlighten her.
Like everyone else, Eddo-Lodge’s white friends will be aware of the extraordinary lengths the UK has gone to over the past half-century or more to encourage and accommodate black inclusion. The UK has changed its laws, introduced no end of initiatives and directed considerable public funds to that end. Her friends will also know that the UK has a long history of welcoming immigrants from around the world. In short, there are few if any countries that could be said to be less racist than the UK.
One of the more visible efforts to increase black inclusion is to be found in the media. Black faces are now everywhere on TV; on the main terrestrial TV channels it would be difficult to find a programme that doesn’t have an overrepresentation of black presenters, reporters, actors, etc., one that is out of all proportion to the relative size of the black community. Anyone who doubts this should try counting the number of TV adverts that don’t have black actors. In its current drive to include black actors in any and every drama the BBC stretches dramatic credibility to the point where it risks ridicule. And note that it is specifically black inclusion that is being accommodated here. Indeed, one could be forgiven for thinking that Black/Black British was the largest minority group in the UK, yet it is less than half the size of the Asian/Asian British population which enjoys nowhere near the same levels of representation in the media.
Of course none of this is acknowledged in Eddo-Lodge’s conveniently skewed reading of things or in her purposefully selective approach to the facts. And there is something else that her friends will be all too aware of, something that, again, is conspicuously absent from Eddo-Lodge’s account. Her white friends will know that whenever the media carries reports of the perpetrators of crime there is a good chance that the faces looking back at them will be black. The fact is that the black community places a disproportionately high burden on the criminal justice system with far higher levels of knife crime, drug dealing and robbery than other sections of the UK population. Black families are more likely to be single parent families, and the black community draws disproportionately on social services, on health, education and the benefits system. Of course none of this is about skin colour – being black doesn’t cause someone to commit crime or abandon their own children - but it is about attitude, perspective and values.
And here we come to the nub of the issue and the essential problem with this book. For however much many in the black community strive to be part of British society, and through their talents and hard work make a valuable and important contribution to society, there remains a sizable and unduly vocal minority who are intent on portraying themselves as victims, as continually hard done by. They find fault and take exception to anything and everything, automatically characterizing any and every situation or circumstance as a consequence of being black – an attitude so prevalent that it is now frequently caricatured by comedians with the expression: ‘It’s coz I is black innit’. It is precisely this undercurrent of self-pitying, sniping resentment that informs this book, a book that is unashamedly prejudiced and intolerant. I was safe in assuming that its author would be black – not, for example, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Chinese – because even the very title betrays this selfsame characteristic attitude of ungracious, caustic negativity. We do indeed have a problem with racism in the UK and this ill-informed and unfortunate book serves to illustrate the problem – but not in the way the author thinks.
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Joaquin
1.0 out of 5 stars
A Wasted Opportunity
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 11, 2018Verified Purchase
I was recommended this book by a great Nigerian friend I’ve known since I was 16. Given the nature of the cover, I was ambivalent but decided to give it a go all the same. I did my best to engage the book in good faith, giving the author credit when she made good points, and not straw-manning those with which I disagreed (however strongly).
Here is the crux of my problem with this book. Eddo-Lodge frames her argument in such a way that it’s impossible for a “white” person to have an honest disagreement with any of her premises without 1) her attributing the disagreement to their race, and 2) reinforcing those premises i.e. “You just don’t get it because you’re white. You just proved my point”. It’s the intellectual equivalent of “You’re in denial”, “Why are you so defensive?”, or “You always want to have the last word” (or even the classic last resort that Jehova’s Witness and the Westborough Baptist Church members use when confronted with an argument, “That’s exactly what the devil would say”). In other words, if there is no possible good faith retort that wouldn’t reinforce the very point of contention (e.g. “No, I’m not in denial”, “I’m not defensive”, “I don’t always want to have the last word” etc.) you have inoculated your argument against all criticism. This is the sign of a bad argument, not a good one.
Incidentally, I’m Hispanic, I have lived in three continents, have belonged to both the majority and the minority group for years at a stretch, and as the latter I have experienced prejudice, profiling, and discrimination, as well as immense privilege. Whether I’m “white” depends on who you ask, as well as where and when. The fact that my life story doesn’t fit neatly into Eddo-Lodge’s essentialist picture of “white” people gives me a different perspective on many of the issues she raises, and no doubt some of my disagreements (but also some agreements) are born out of that. However, my gripe with the book is deeper than the sum of my experiences.
In analytic philosophy you’re taught to detect both the explicit premises stated in an argument and the implicit premises that underpin them. The latter are the unstated assumptions that would have to be true in order for the explicit premises to make sense. The more assumptions there are, the more vulnerable the argument is. Eddo-Lodge’s book is laden with such assumptions, generalisations and, rather embarrassingly for a supposed anti-racism activist, essentialist claims about race.
This is not to say that there isn’t also some sharp and valuable insight into the issue of racism in modern Britain (the section about identity in mixed race families being one example), but it’s undermined rather than aided by her style of argument. This is a shame given the real need to address racism across multiple levels of society.
I’m also frustrated by a glaring contradiction in her book that she seems to be oblivious to. This is, on the one hand, the notion presented in her last chapter that the conversation about race will be necessarily messy and uncomfortable, and that we should overcome that in order to address racism. Yet, on the other hand, she advises her target audience to only talk to people who already agree with them about the nature of these issues, and confirms this in her own experience of breaking out of white feminist circles to set up a black-only group simply because of their disagreements about the role of intersectionality in feminist discourse. In others words, we are at once asked to have a “messy conversation” while also being told to seek out and remain inside echo chambers, avoiding engagement with opposing view points. The whole point of a messy conversation is that, by definition, there will be uncomfortable disagreements, and you should be prepared to face them and refine your arguments, not run away because you “can’t be bothered with white people”.
The climax of this diatribe is in equal parts depressing as it is dangerous. Don’t seek unity, she says. Power must be taken by force, and there is no end in sight to the struggle, so please don’t ask me about what my goal is. A perfectly legitimate question such as “what is the end point”, in her eyes, would only confirm her suspicions that you are not a genuine advocate of progress but instead would rather just put a lid on the whole racism thing and continue to sweep it under the rug. This type of all-or-nothing rhetoric has echoes of the Communist Manifesto, and the “by any means necessary” sentiment has more in common with Malcom X than with Martin Luther King (the latter’s call to judge people by the content of their character rather than by the colour of their skin being derided early on in the book).
Her worldview, in part seemingly born out of Marxist conflict theory, is not just incompatible with dialogue, but positively hostile to it. Dialogue with people who hold opposing views is counterproductive as it diverts valuable time and energy away from the movement. In her eyes, white liberals flying the flag of MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech are a bigger threat to her movement than the BNP because, while you know where you stand with the latter, the former are a stifling and insidious form of opposition. This is not merely my personal interpretation of her book. She actually says that.
When this is the style of argument employed, there is no possible objection that could be seen as being had in good faith. Every bad argument I protest against is merely a confirmation of her original view that I don’t get it, and I can’t get it, because of my race. Forget the fact that black intellectual heavyweights such as Brown University professor Glenn Loury, Harvard-educated economist Thomas Sowell and the up-and-coming columnist Coleman Hughes have vehement disagreements with her analysis.
Despite occasional citings of research, this is decidedly not a scholarly book. It never seriously engages the counter argument, which is a prerequisite for any serious academic work. It is a political manifesto written by an activist. The lazy argumentation, strawmanning of opposing views and outright calls for echo chambers that reinforce – rather than challenge – confirmation bias demonstrates this in full. If you’re looking for sharp political theory, this is the wrong book. Anyone from Russeau to Rawls or Nozick would be more appropriate. If what you’re after is the writings of a lackadaisical, radical political activist á la Owen Jones, you’re in the right place.
With that said, and in spite of the low rating (mostly due to quality rather to the content itself) I still recommend you read it. The reason is that it’s important to acquaint oneself with this style of argument, particularly as it gains prevalence in schools, universities, the media, and increasingly, mainstream society (particularly on the Left). For better or worse, as this gains political currency, this atomised worldview of humanity will increasingly shape not just the dialogue about race, but the kind of society we live in. If you can borrow the book from someone, do so. If your only choice is to purchase it, I still begrudgingly recommend you do it.
Next I plan to read “Brit(ish)” by Afua Hirsch, which deals with similar issues but which (given what I’ve seen of her on TV) I hope will be argued in good faith.
Here is the crux of my problem with this book. Eddo-Lodge frames her argument in such a way that it’s impossible for a “white” person to have an honest disagreement with any of her premises without 1) her attributing the disagreement to their race, and 2) reinforcing those premises i.e. “You just don’t get it because you’re white. You just proved my point”. It’s the intellectual equivalent of “You’re in denial”, “Why are you so defensive?”, or “You always want to have the last word” (or even the classic last resort that Jehova’s Witness and the Westborough Baptist Church members use when confronted with an argument, “That’s exactly what the devil would say”). In other words, if there is no possible good faith retort that wouldn’t reinforce the very point of contention (e.g. “No, I’m not in denial”, “I’m not defensive”, “I don’t always want to have the last word” etc.) you have inoculated your argument against all criticism. This is the sign of a bad argument, not a good one.
Incidentally, I’m Hispanic, I have lived in three continents, have belonged to both the majority and the minority group for years at a stretch, and as the latter I have experienced prejudice, profiling, and discrimination, as well as immense privilege. Whether I’m “white” depends on who you ask, as well as where and when. The fact that my life story doesn’t fit neatly into Eddo-Lodge’s essentialist picture of “white” people gives me a different perspective on many of the issues she raises, and no doubt some of my disagreements (but also some agreements) are born out of that. However, my gripe with the book is deeper than the sum of my experiences.
In analytic philosophy you’re taught to detect both the explicit premises stated in an argument and the implicit premises that underpin them. The latter are the unstated assumptions that would have to be true in order for the explicit premises to make sense. The more assumptions there are, the more vulnerable the argument is. Eddo-Lodge’s book is laden with such assumptions, generalisations and, rather embarrassingly for a supposed anti-racism activist, essentialist claims about race.
This is not to say that there isn’t also some sharp and valuable insight into the issue of racism in modern Britain (the section about identity in mixed race families being one example), but it’s undermined rather than aided by her style of argument. This is a shame given the real need to address racism across multiple levels of society.
I’m also frustrated by a glaring contradiction in her book that she seems to be oblivious to. This is, on the one hand, the notion presented in her last chapter that the conversation about race will be necessarily messy and uncomfortable, and that we should overcome that in order to address racism. Yet, on the other hand, she advises her target audience to only talk to people who already agree with them about the nature of these issues, and confirms this in her own experience of breaking out of white feminist circles to set up a black-only group simply because of their disagreements about the role of intersectionality in feminist discourse. In others words, we are at once asked to have a “messy conversation” while also being told to seek out and remain inside echo chambers, avoiding engagement with opposing view points. The whole point of a messy conversation is that, by definition, there will be uncomfortable disagreements, and you should be prepared to face them and refine your arguments, not run away because you “can’t be bothered with white people”.
The climax of this diatribe is in equal parts depressing as it is dangerous. Don’t seek unity, she says. Power must be taken by force, and there is no end in sight to the struggle, so please don’t ask me about what my goal is. A perfectly legitimate question such as “what is the end point”, in her eyes, would only confirm her suspicions that you are not a genuine advocate of progress but instead would rather just put a lid on the whole racism thing and continue to sweep it under the rug. This type of all-or-nothing rhetoric has echoes of the Communist Manifesto, and the “by any means necessary” sentiment has more in common with Malcom X than with Martin Luther King (the latter’s call to judge people by the content of their character rather than by the colour of their skin being derided early on in the book).
Her worldview, in part seemingly born out of Marxist conflict theory, is not just incompatible with dialogue, but positively hostile to it. Dialogue with people who hold opposing views is counterproductive as it diverts valuable time and energy away from the movement. In her eyes, white liberals flying the flag of MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech are a bigger threat to her movement than the BNP because, while you know where you stand with the latter, the former are a stifling and insidious form of opposition. This is not merely my personal interpretation of her book. She actually says that.
When this is the style of argument employed, there is no possible objection that could be seen as being had in good faith. Every bad argument I protest against is merely a confirmation of her original view that I don’t get it, and I can’t get it, because of my race. Forget the fact that black intellectual heavyweights such as Brown University professor Glenn Loury, Harvard-educated economist Thomas Sowell and the up-and-coming columnist Coleman Hughes have vehement disagreements with her analysis.
Despite occasional citings of research, this is decidedly not a scholarly book. It never seriously engages the counter argument, which is a prerequisite for any serious academic work. It is a political manifesto written by an activist. The lazy argumentation, strawmanning of opposing views and outright calls for echo chambers that reinforce – rather than challenge – confirmation bias demonstrates this in full. If you’re looking for sharp political theory, this is the wrong book. Anyone from Russeau to Rawls or Nozick would be more appropriate. If what you’re after is the writings of a lackadaisical, radical political activist á la Owen Jones, you’re in the right place.
With that said, and in spite of the low rating (mostly due to quality rather to the content itself) I still recommend you read it. The reason is that it’s important to acquaint oneself with this style of argument, particularly as it gains prevalence in schools, universities, the media, and increasingly, mainstream society (particularly on the Left). For better or worse, as this gains political currency, this atomised worldview of humanity will increasingly shape not just the dialogue about race, but the kind of society we live in. If you can borrow the book from someone, do so. If your only choice is to purchase it, I still begrudgingly recommend you do it.
Next I plan to read “Brit(ish)” by Afua Hirsch, which deals with similar issues but which (given what I’ve seen of her on TV) I hope will be argued in good faith.
1.0 out of 5 stars
A Wasted Opportunity
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 11, 2018
I was recommended this book by a great Nigerian friend I’ve known since I was 16. Given the nature of the cover, I was ambivalent but decided to give it a go all the same. I did my best to engage the book in good faith, giving the author credit when she made good points, and not straw-manning those with which I disagreed (however strongly).Reviewed in the United Kingdom on September 11, 2018
Here is the crux of my problem with this book. Eddo-Lodge frames her argument in such a way that it’s impossible for a “white” person to have an honest disagreement with any of her premises without 1) her attributing the disagreement to their race, and 2) reinforcing those premises i.e. “You just don’t get it because you’re white. You just proved my point”. It’s the intellectual equivalent of “You’re in denial”, “Why are you so defensive?”, or “You always want to have the last word” (or even the classic last resort that Jehova’s Witness and the Westborough Baptist Church members use when confronted with an argument, “That’s exactly what the devil would say”). In other words, if there is no possible good faith retort that wouldn’t reinforce the very point of contention (e.g. “No, I’m not in denial”, “I’m not defensive”, “I don’t always want to have the last word” etc.) you have inoculated your argument against all criticism. This is the sign of a bad argument, not a good one.
Incidentally, I’m Hispanic, I have lived in three continents, have belonged to both the majority and the minority group for years at a stretch, and as the latter I have experienced prejudice, profiling, and discrimination, as well as immense privilege. Whether I’m “white” depends on who you ask, as well as where and when. The fact that my life story doesn’t fit neatly into Eddo-Lodge’s essentialist picture of “white” people gives me a different perspective on many of the issues she raises, and no doubt some of my disagreements (but also some agreements) are born out of that. However, my gripe with the book is deeper than the sum of my experiences.
In analytic philosophy you’re taught to detect both the explicit premises stated in an argument and the implicit premises that underpin them. The latter are the unstated assumptions that would have to be true in order for the explicit premises to make sense. The more assumptions there are, the more vulnerable the argument is. Eddo-Lodge’s book is laden with such assumptions, generalisations and, rather embarrassingly for a supposed anti-racism activist, essentialist claims about race.
This is not to say that there isn’t also some sharp and valuable insight into the issue of racism in modern Britain (the section about identity in mixed race families being one example), but it’s undermined rather than aided by her style of argument. This is a shame given the real need to address racism across multiple levels of society.
I’m also frustrated by a glaring contradiction in her book that she seems to be oblivious to. This is, on the one hand, the notion presented in her last chapter that the conversation about race will be necessarily messy and uncomfortable, and that we should overcome that in order to address racism. Yet, on the other hand, she advises her target audience to only talk to people who already agree with them about the nature of these issues, and confirms this in her own experience of breaking out of white feminist circles to set up a black-only group simply because of their disagreements about the role of intersectionality in feminist discourse. In others words, we are at once asked to have a “messy conversation” while also being told to seek out and remain inside echo chambers, avoiding engagement with opposing view points. The whole point of a messy conversation is that, by definition, there will be uncomfortable disagreements, and you should be prepared to face them and refine your arguments, not run away because you “can’t be bothered with white people”.
The climax of this diatribe is in equal parts depressing as it is dangerous. Don’t seek unity, she says. Power must be taken by force, and there is no end in sight to the struggle, so please don’t ask me about what my goal is. A perfectly legitimate question such as “what is the end point”, in her eyes, would only confirm her suspicions that you are not a genuine advocate of progress but instead would rather just put a lid on the whole racism thing and continue to sweep it under the rug. This type of all-or-nothing rhetoric has echoes of the Communist Manifesto, and the “by any means necessary” sentiment has more in common with Malcom X than with Martin Luther King (the latter’s call to judge people by the content of their character rather than by the colour of their skin being derided early on in the book).
Her worldview, in part seemingly born out of Marxist conflict theory, is not just incompatible with dialogue, but positively hostile to it. Dialogue with people who hold opposing views is counterproductive as it diverts valuable time and energy away from the movement. In her eyes, white liberals flying the flag of MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech are a bigger threat to her movement than the BNP because, while you know where you stand with the latter, the former are a stifling and insidious form of opposition. This is not merely my personal interpretation of her book. She actually says that.
When this is the style of argument employed, there is no possible objection that could be seen as being had in good faith. Every bad argument I protest against is merely a confirmation of her original view that I don’t get it, and I can’t get it, because of my race. Forget the fact that black intellectual heavyweights such as Brown University professor Glenn Loury, Harvard-educated economist Thomas Sowell and the up-and-coming columnist Coleman Hughes have vehement disagreements with her analysis.
Despite occasional citings of research, this is decidedly not a scholarly book. It never seriously engages the counter argument, which is a prerequisite for any serious academic work. It is a political manifesto written by an activist. The lazy argumentation, strawmanning of opposing views and outright calls for echo chambers that reinforce – rather than challenge – confirmation bias demonstrates this in full. If you’re looking for sharp political theory, this is the wrong book. Anyone from Russeau to Rawls or Nozick would be more appropriate. If what you’re after is the writings of a lackadaisical, radical political activist á la Owen Jones, you’re in the right place.
With that said, and in spite of the low rating (mostly due to quality rather to the content itself) I still recommend you read it. The reason is that it’s important to acquaint oneself with this style of argument, particularly as it gains prevalence in schools, universities, the media, and increasingly, mainstream society (particularly on the Left). For better or worse, as this gains political currency, this atomised worldview of humanity will increasingly shape not just the dialogue about race, but the kind of society we live in. If you can borrow the book from someone, do so. If your only choice is to purchase it, I still begrudgingly recommend you do it.
Next I plan to read “Brit(ish)” by Afua Hirsch, which deals with similar issues but which (given what I’ve seen of her on TV) I hope will be argued in good faith.
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C Young
1.0 out of 5 stars
Oh poor little me
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on October 31, 2018Verified Purchase
Very biased in favor of the authors blinkered opinions. Have your cake and eat it came to mind. Not greatly written or adding much to sensible debate.
709 people found this helpful
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Sharah
1.0 out of 5 stars
Dissapointing
Reviewed in the United Kingdom on August 9, 2019Verified Purchase
As an SE Asian I would like to understand more about black and their history but I feel like this book is very biased and poorly written. I can't even force to finish it.
534 people found this helpful
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