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Models: Attract Women Through Honesty Paperback – July 28, 2011
| Mark Manson (Author) Find all the books, read about the author, and more. See search results for this author |
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Inside, you'll learn:
- The root behavior that causes all female attraction.
- Why typical dating advice and pick up theory is counter-productive in the long-run.
- How to overcome nervousness and anxiety around attractive women.
- How any man can make himself appear attractive with a little time and effort.
- The three keys to keeping conversations with women interesting and engaging.
- How to discover the beliefs and attitudes that are sabotaging your success with women.
- How to develop a genuine and joyful sense of humor.
"I want to tell you that you’re probably one of the few people who really got “it” figured out. I’m only half-way through your book, and it’s unbelievable how everything is making so much sense to me. Everytime I read something in your book I can relate it to some encounter I had with a girl, I now understand why I succeeded at times and failed at another. Especially the part about vulnerability. Even if I did not read the rest of the book, I already got what I paid for. Thank you Mark."
- Yousif
"I just finished your book today, “Models,” and wanted to tell you that your presentation of the subject is far to superior to anything else I’ve read.
I’ve been involved with seduction since 2006 and I’ve consumed a lot dating products. Many try to make their readers into “pickup artists” – today I gag at the term.
But you don’t do that. I like how spend so much time in the book reinforcing the fact that we are good human beings at our core and it’s a matter of presenting ourselves honestly, without apology to everyone we encounter. And you give the reader the tools to strip away all the disguises that other seduction gurus have said we need to wear at all times.
Thanks. Can’t wait to meet women today with these new eyes."
- Robert
- Print length260 pages
- LanguageEnglish
- Publication dateJuly 28, 2011
- Dimensions5.51 x 0.55 x 8.5 inches
- ISBN-101463750358
- ISBN-13978-1463750350
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Product details
- Publisher : CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform; 6/28/11 edition (July 28, 2011)
- Language : English
- Paperback : 260 pages
- ISBN-10 : 1463750358
- ISBN-13 : 978-1463750350
- Item Weight : 10.9 ounces
- Dimensions : 5.51 x 0.55 x 8.5 inches
- Best Sellers Rank: #7,704 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
- #33 in Dating (Books)
- #89 in Love & Romance (Books)
- #336 in Personal Transformation Self-Help
- Customer Reviews:
About the author

Mark Manson is the #1 New York Times Bestselling author of Everything is F*cked: A Book About Hope and The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life, the mega-bestseller that reached #1 in fourteen different countries. Mark’s books have been translated into more than 50 languages and have sold over 12 million copies worldwide.
Mark runs one of the largest personal growth websites in the world, MarkManson.net, a blog with more than two million monthly readers and half a million subscribers. His writing is often described as ‘self-help for people who hate self-help’ — a no-BS brand of life advice and cultural commentary that has struck a chord with people around the globe. His writing has appeared in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, TIME Magazine, Forbes, Vice, CNN, and Vox, among many others. He currently lives in New York City.
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It's okay to present an honest expression of yourself, to be fully you with everyone you meet. If the lady isn't receptive to your truth, then she wasn't going to be a fit for you anyway. Think of it like this: every relationship has a honeymoon period. After that's done, then they get to see the real you. If your partner doesn't like that version of you, then you'll have drama and you'll probably end up going your separate ways. Why go through that needlessly? Why not avoid it by being your true self from the get-go?
Obviously, if you're not happy with who you are and aren't attracting the kind of women you believe you deserve, then you probably need to do some self-improvement. This book will help.
After you've spent some time leveling up and are ready to begin dating, but don't know how to go about it in an honest, true-to-yourself kind of way, then this book will also help.
Need specific advice? This book has answers. Not all of them. But it gets you thinking, gets you inspired to work and figure it out. You will be given the foundation for a natural, honest way to attract women and from that you'll be able to suss out the next step.
Can't recommend this book highly enough!
** Warning this is a long review, apologies for the typos, grammar, no apologies for this being a personal opinion **
I found this book after a long journey. And it could have saved me some time. And money.
I've taken two separate workshops with two 'pickup industry veterans', one was known as Juggler, the other to remain unnamed. Both were good, from a general view as they forced me (or rather, I forced myself) to re-acquaint myself with who I was, and what kind of values I held, and made me a little more skilled at attracting the other sex. These were better than reading books. But if you only had to get a book, then this is the book I would recommend.
This was my journey, and I think it's normal ...
1. When you're in your early (I said twenties but really, any age really), and have 'no clue', or rather, 'think you have a clue' ("but really have no clue") one might start trying to solve their situation by turning to friends, female friends, relatives etc.
2. In this day and age, being a man who can't get laid regularly seems to be something no seemingly happy male wants to admit to, like depression, or mental illness etc.
3. The place that most young (or not so young) males then look (naturally), is the Internet. Problem is ... on the Internet, anyone can be an expert. In fact, some of the stuff, (and you'll be looking at the free and pirated stuff first) is definitely tacky, crappy, and at worst, sometimes misogynistic, sexist, psychopathic ....
4. Guys 'learn' this new way, which results in 'results' that are false-positives. I.e. People confuse 'tactics' and 'routines' and whatever psycho-babble for being responsible for the results they are getting, when really, most are getting results from just getting out more and making an effort to meet girls. This gets tiring. And in retrospect, is embarrassing ... it's like being able to start a car, find yourself on a freeway ... and then crash because you don't know how to merge into her 'ok, you look ok, and are kind of funny/interesting/intriguing/ what are you really about? I'll let you know me if you share something of substance (that's not about Elvis's blue hair, or who lies more etc). i am exaggerating here, but it's true ....
5. If you are tired of the above, enter phase two. You bother to pony up and pay for a workshop, especially with a good 'guru', then chances are you will actually get better results. Hell you'd better, know how much it costs to see Wayne Elise for a weekend? As the teacher will be able to guide you, calibrate you, correct you, and provide feedback. Also, a lot of teachers are a lot more 'natural' in their processes, than they would have you believe from reading all their manuals which in some cases are hilariously convoluted ... (By the way, Wayne is great)
6. This is not to say these models are not useful, it's just ... it's not a wholesome understanding living in theory land.
7. After you do a workshop or two, you'll definitely have results ... if only for ... 'I cannot believe I paid this much money, I MUST achieve results, and this SEEMS to be the way, I will definitely APPLY these skills...' And those skills will be useful. But do not forget that by now you are experienced, you have a skillset (no matter what doctrine, or method, or philosophy), some measure of confidence ... and real motivation!
8. Hopefully, A few girlfriends later, you'll be a bit more experienced, and wonder ... I wonder if I could have avoided such an expensive route?
or
I would like to keep a refresher on the concepts I learnt at these bootcamps, but studying notes are a bit dorkish, and I'd like an enjoyable read from someone that seems to know what they are talking about (and you may be able to tell now, with more experience under your belt) that might give me some more insight ... and preferably someone that I would like to imagine I would like as a person, if I ever met them.
This is that book I have been looking for - and one I would recommend to a younger nephew looking to 'get in', or to an beginner to intermediate guy like me.
Now that I've matured into seeing the process as something more than 'a game', I was after a refresher. Something that wasn't too serious, and something that wasn't immature.
Enter 'Models', which seems a strange title. I heard about it on a seduction forum, knew the guy had a blog, liked his writing, had a look, ordered it ... I really liked this book, as the author seems a genuine level headed guy who likes to meet women, is good at it, and seems to genuinely like, and appreciate women - without bitterness or cynicism.
I like that It's well laid out in terms of the progression of topics, the author is a good enough writer (I though he was very good actually, in distilling some quite complicated concepts), it's not too short, and he writes with some good backstories, woven into some firm recommendations for putting together your own dating action plan. Which like all good attraction books, makes it a workbook as well as a textbook.
Criticisms that this book suffers from grammar or typos probably arise from the fact this book looks like it was put together by a one-man band in Word. In response, I would point out that I enjoyed the book, and with time, I trust/hope he'll make revisions to keep improving it. In a way, I could have avoided one of my 'bootcamps' had this book been out then, and had I applied the suggestions recommended within.
Postscript, and a little about me: I was at University at the time I took these bootcamps cited above, eager to sort out my dating life, took a while afterwards but it worked ... had my first gf, she being a your medical graduate, then another Dr graduate for a long while, then most recently, a french doctor (doctors and french girls seem to like me for some strange reason!). I was friendly with the PUA teacher on my second bootcamp, held here in my local country, ended up interning for him and attending all sorts of 'Seduction Conventions' where I saw the best and worst of the people that the 'seduction industry' have to offer. Hilarious stuff too. One guy teaching a course was a retired accountant who dyed his hair purple, put out porn dvds with 'hypnotherapy' ambient subcommands embedded into the stereo mix .... Another was a 17 year old kid that brought his girlfriend over, as part of his powerpoint exhibit, to show the whole crowd what success he was having with his own patented system. It sounds funny, and kind of pathetic - but I'm not going to judge. The audience, me, I was pathetic too. A range of 18 to 70 year old men (that's right, senior citizens not getting any were here too) that were being sold the world on 'how to interrupt 4 sets and get that model'. And all the people in that audience, i thought, might get more value from a big man hug, a raisin oatmeal biscuit with warm milk, and a friendly counselling session from that kind of mythical hairy chested uncle that other families have that is a registered pants-man with moustache and bear-fighting history etc.
Anyhow, I'm happy, I'm now now longer .... well ... a virgin, I'm semi-competent with girls, having had a few flings, and a few gfs, and actually have a dating life that looks after itself. If I could describe the whole process, it was a journey, and more than anything kind of a 'how can others know you, if you don't even know yourself' kind of thing .... that is what I would have said to myself back then. And that is ... to sum up, why I liked the book. It asks you to be honest with yourself, and it prompts some self-development. Anyhow, be careful out there. People can get stuck ... I know people stuck in total mindgames about this 'game', who instead of working on themselves, walk around with a whole new set of ideas that have not given them the results they wanted. I think this guy wrote a good book, for beginners and for intermediates ... with some cool insights ... so I am going out of my way to write him a good review.
On the back cover, it has a quote saying that this is the only book you'll ever need. I don't totally agree with that. I've read, The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give it to Them, which I also found helpful, especially the chapter about Responsibility. I also felt Ignore and Score was good. My point is, I don't believe this one book will ever be a one stop shop. No book ever is, regardless of the subject, necessarily.
The book goes to deep lengths to talk about NEEDINESS. The scariest word in the dictionary when it comes to dating. You know that feeling where you want to talk to a lady, and the first thought that goes through your mind is, "how do I suppress my awkwardness as to not make it obvious that I'm afraid?" When I want to approach a lady, the thoughts that cross my mind are like the following:
What can I say to her in order to prevent the "he wants me in bed" alarm/alert from going off??
How do I act as convincing as possible that the reason I'm asking for her number is so that we can study, when the truth is I want to take her on a romantic date?
My point is, when I ask for her number, or speak to a woman who I'm interested in, in general, I always have heart pounding fears about her realising how badly I want her, and how much I'm hoping she won't reject me. But, according to the author, if you even so much as FEEL any of those ways, the reason is because you are needy. And essentially, if you're needy, according to the author, there is no effective long term way around it. Unless you CORRECT your neediness, it will be a very substantial problem. And most of the book talks about ways to reduce neediness. It discusses ways to improve you're looks, by going to a gym and buying clothes, by grooming and being clean, and psychological techniques to improve communication skills, and tools to help you stop judging women as being a slut, even thought we sometimes automatically assume it to be the case.
Another part I wanted to point out was where the title suggests attracting women with honesty. The title is very misleading, I feel, because the title makes it seem as if the author is recommending that honesty is a "good path" to take when trying to attract women. However, while reading the book, you will see that Mark Manson has a totally different reason. He states that no matter how hard you try to hide your intentions (being dishonest), it's essentially not possible. He's not asking you to attract women through honesty; he's telling you that you blatantly have no choice. He's basically telling you that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try to cover up feeling needy, they will know exactly what you're up to.
And another part about the book that conflicts with a moral taught in The Manual (the other book I read), The Manual speaks of Resistence versus Rejection.It explains how even if it looks like you're being rejected, she may just be resisting, which still leaves the door opened up to future possibilities. With Models, however, Mark Mason strongly suggests that THE MOMENT you see that she's not interested, you should move on ASAP. Although, of course, there's a chapter that talks about "Polarisation," where the author shows you how to DETECT if she's interested, but he still sticks to the same idea; if they are not interested, move ON!
The whole moral of the story of this book is, neediness is your biggest problem, and it must be taken care of no matter WHAT. And, you CANNOT hide neediness. And, if they're not interested, there's no point in changing her mind. Either she likes you, or she don't. Period!
Another point I wanted to point out was about being honest about your attraction, and being needy. He used an example about her phone ringing and getting gag reflex. I can relate to that feeling. Sometimes your boss might call you, and the moment you see the caller ID, you feel like throwing up. So, if that's the feeling some of these girls feel when you try calling them, I can understand the author's prospective on moving on. However, I also feel somewhat skeptical about it too.
Yes there are plenty of times in our lives when we feel awkward, or uncomfortable when the phone rings or we get a text. But I also get that gag reflex when my alarm goes off in the morning, or when I have a presentation to do. There are lots of events in our lives that give us gag reflex. However, according to the famous scientist, Pavlov, we are CONDITIONED to these reactions through learned behaviour. If for example, a girl were to find out that you were actually a much nicer guy then all the others ringing her phone, she would no longer get gag reflex. It's all about psychology; and I don't believe it's always the appropriate thing to move on right away, depends.
Also, I find the author to be somewhat hypocritical, because he states that most women will not find you attractive, and the expectation that they do is only an illusion. However, later in the book he continued to state that he himself had indeed slept with hundreds of women, which I feel is inconsistent with what he said earlier. Either he thinks he's way more attractive than the average reader of his book, or I misinterpreted his meaning when he said "most women" won't find you attractive.
I'm happy I read it, because I wanted to read this book for awhile, but I never came around to doing so until now. I never fully agree with any author 100% in any book I read, so I'm not totally agreeing or disagreeing with everything in this book. After reading this, I feel it was very interesting. There's lots and lots of other very valuable dating lessons and advice in here that overwhelmed me in a positive way. I wanted to re-read it from the beginning in order to highlight all the key points so that I could write a much more thorough review to help readers decide on whether to purchase this, but instead of being a perfectionist, I'll just leave this like it is and move on to new books. The next one I plan to read is, The Truth: An Uncomfortable Book About Relationships. But for the time being, I feel you will enjoy reading Models Attract Women Through Honesty by Mark Manson. You will learn plenty of valuable tips from this book.
I almost forgot to add, there are chapters dedicated to improving your appearance. It specifically stated to go in your closet and throw out everything in the garbage that doesn't fit you. I literally trashed three garbage bags of old, raggy, hand me down trash that's been laying dormant in my closet. I have been trying very hard to improve my attire, and I thank the author for enlightening me with the idea.
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However, buying a book to learn how to become better with women is also needy. Mark Manson is advocating a radical change to your way of life in order to get with women, although like all PUA coaches, he claims that his program of change is different, because it involves more noble concepts like honesty and vulnerability. But the question remains to me: what's wrong with me now? There is a cruelty in all such books in that they imply that men aren't good enough as they are and that they need to become incredibly psychologically literate and aware of their every last thought and action in order to attract women. It isn't true. Men have been attracting women just by being born men for millenia.
Let's look at Mark Manson's description of Jeff, his example of a non-needy man:
"Jeff has been successful with women for his entire life and has a very low level of investment with them until he's gotten to know them well. Jeff enjoys going out with his friends and pays no attention to whether the women around him approve of him or not. At times, he says something weird or gets rejected but it doesn't bother him. But other times, girls become quite attracted to Jeff. When Jeff notices, if he finds them attractive, he'll take their number and ask them out..."
I don't find this realistic as an ideal, or necessarily desirable. While I completely accept that neediness is the greatest turn-off for women (as Manson puts it, "to a woman, a man with a lot of neediness is like having the worst breath and lots of missing teeth"), Jeff sounds like he couldn't care less whether he has a woman in his life or not. While it's bad to be needy, for most men the companionship of a woman is felt as a need, something that can make a real difference in life and the absence of which can be painful. There are also natural biological desires that we have and can't switch off even if we might sometimes want to. It doesn't sound like Jeff has any of these problems. Surely women want a man who feels a strong desire to be with them. How can a man who feels real desire for a woman "pay no attention to whether the woman around approve of him or not"? This isn't realistic for anyone. No one pays no attention to whether others approve, in fact it would be foolish to do so, as others can give us feedback on ourselves from angles we wouldn't have seen.
Also, as with all PUA books, there is an implication that no factors matter in attractiveness other than those that you can change through training and greater psychological awareness. Your looks, your height, your physique, crucially of course your bank balance, your career and social circle. Manson speaks as if Jeff is only attractive to women because he isn't needy, as if none of these other factors matter, as if an ugly man or a handsome man, a poor man or a rich man, could train themselves in this non-neediness and see equal results. This rather erases a man's individual attributes. We know nothing about this Jeff character and why women might be attracted to him. Presumably he has some attractive traits that he was born with, other than not being needy. Surely some men aren't attractive to women for reasons other than neediness. When speaking of women finding neediness as unattractive as missing teeth and bad breath, he doesn't really emphasise the fact that woman are also turned off by missing teeth and bad breath. In fact the reality is that there is nothing about a man that women don't take into account when considering his attractiveness. Non-neediness may be the top unattractive quality that you're able to do something about, but she may find you unattractive for others reasons that you couldn't have predicted. That's how it is with women. You can never fully pin down how they will react to you or why. That's where books like this will always fall down.
After 1,5 years I decided to give a last chance and try this “Models” that a lot of guys talk about. But I was skeptical because I tought it was too 'soft'.
I was wrong.
After a few pages I knew this was the true answer to what I really needed: become attractive and understand women very well without changing yourself completly. I got much more than that.
Mark Mason doesn’t write simple theories like everybody else. Everything he writes has a lot of cientifical research and his own experience. That is why this is a revolution in seduction knowledge — remember, I had been read dating advice from hundreds of professional "players" every day for 1,5 years, I kept reading because I felt that everything I read was unhealthy theories based on their bad experiences and beliefs about women, only to find out what I already suspected deep down: they are all f*ck*d up in their heads.
My advice to every guy who wants to become attractive and learn how to be good with the ladies: buy this book and read it several times. You'll never need to read anything more ever again. Get rid of all Red Pill stuff you have. This is the complete guide, gives you the true attractiveness and seductive knowledge without any "fake it until you make it" or tricks and tactics. No more boy games, this is for real men who have courage to be honest and straight foward.
And the most important thing: you won't be a mentally ill women-hater.
You will learn to trully admire and understand women for what they are instead of seeing them as labeled objects who are meant to be exploited.
Remember guys, women are a very important part of our lives, so it is important learn this right.
I am very lucky to have this precious knowledge.
Thank you Mark for all the effort!
But then I realized that by improving myself I could have achieved more, and find what I was actually looking for. I started reading self-improvement books, workout 3-4 times a week and be more social. I started working on myself, rather than showing neediness and pleasing others.
You know it is time to leave, when your gut and instincts tell you so. Get out, work on your goals, and on that path of self improvement you will find what you are looking for. It is just a matter of time.
===
@2019-04-01
Models - Attract Women Through Honesty
Best book on dating in a modern world. Just beware of the last part about sex...
After a long-term relationship I wanted to understand more about the world of relationships, love and sex from the perspective of a modern men who likes to be seen as a feminist believing in equality with a "taste" for career-seeking, intelligent women.
Unfortunately, if you look for literature and articles about the topic from the perspective of men, you usually find the typical "bro" and "pickup literature" that tells you "how to get the girl" and "seduce her".
Luckily, I found Mark Manson's blog and his great article "F*** yes or no". During reading, I saw that Manson had also written a book about dating, so I bought it. This was the perfect read after I have read and liked "No More Mr. Nice Guy" from Robert A. Glover.
# Idea of the Book
===
If I summarize the suggestions of the book in 4 steps, I would do it like this:
* find out where you are good at
* find out what you like (in women)
* Polarization: talk about it openly and honestly.
* if you find out that the woman you're are talking and you are not matching on these topics, then stop. Otherwise, move
# Run through the Book
===
In the beginning, Manson talks about Female Attraction and why it is not as easy as most of the pickup guides explain. As the consultant says: "It depends".
He explains why True Confidence is the key to attract women. For him, this means "being less invested in other's people's perceptions of you than in your perceptions of yourself".
Hence, his main message is to invest in yourself and hence become more confident. This relates to the term "intrinsic motivation". Instead of having more dates, more sex - seek for better relationships, overall happiness. Don't date to impress your friends... Learn to say no to woman and sex if you are not convinced.
In Chapter 3 and 4, Manson talks about honesty, openness and vulnerability. This is something that actually came very natural to me in my dating experience. Yes, it can be complicated sometimes because you have to deal with the consequences and emotions of your opinions, but less complicated then lying and keeping a lie active over long times. The main question here is:
* Can you laugh about yourself?
* Do you know where you are good at and where you need to improve?
This is how you achieve true confidence and from this he summarizes: It is not about the WHAT you are saying, but about the WHY.
For example if you give compliments because you want to seduce a woman it is not the same as if you say it unconditionally because you think it is true...
And the consequence of this is that you need to set your own boundaries and stick to them. Set your rules and communicate them.
Chapter 5 and Chapter 6 are devoted to Polarization, Rejection and Success. It is important to quickly find out if you and a woman match without losing too much time. There is no man in the whole universe that is able to attract all women, so try to find the ones that are.
Manson explains the signs to see if a woman is reacting to you. And he explains his concept of "F*** yes or no" and to quickly find out whether they are or can be enthusiastic about you. Don't try to impress every woman and try that they like you all.
This leads to be controversial and hence get used to live with rejections.
Success for Manson = Maximining happiness with whichever woman/women we prefer. It is not about counting how many women you have or how attractive the women are.
Chapter 7 deals with the 3 fundamentals to reach True Confidence. To quote Manson:"
1. Creating an attractive lifestyle
2. Overcoming your fears and anxiety around women
3. Mastering the expression of your emotions and communicating fluidly"
or shortly: Honest Living, honest Action, honest Communication
Chapter 8 and 9 are about Honest Living. Manson talks about Demographics and good ways and events to meet interesting women, for example dance or yoga classes. He explains the theory of Social Proof and why you stop rating women on scales.
He is going into more details about how to improve your style with fashion, fitness and working on your body language. Overall, you should be "a fascinating person" with taste.
Chapter 10 and 11 are about Honest Action. It is first about the anxiety to speak to (unknown) women. He explains the patterns that we have to prevent us from talking and that the best effort is to observe yourself (like a meditator) doing this.
He is also talking about masturbation and why you should stop this since it breaks your sexual motivation with real women.
He suggests a simple strategy by slightly getting used to talk to women, first asking for the time, asking about the day until you can tell them that they are attractive and you want to go on a date with them.
Chapter 12-15 deal with Honest Communication. He talks about creepiness, creating sexual tension and about emotional connections.
He goes further with putting emphasis on the first impression, communication skills, how to tell a good story and Humor.
This chapter is more about techniques, for example rules of dating and how to deal with phone numbers properly. At the end, he explains how to get to the first physical contact in a friendly, comfortable manner, leading to kissing and sex. He suggests, in doubt, to be pushy and move forward.
He finishes with a nice blog post from a woman on blog post about what she would like men to do in bed...
At the end of the book is a little step by step guide for improving yourself.
# Review
===
In short, I am really happy with the book. Yes, some of the things are pretty obvious to me (fashion, fitness, making the moves when you know each other) but I guess this is just because I feel comfortable in those areas while other men might feel uncomfortable there.
All in all the book gives a great overview of the areas to think and improve and helps to reflect on a lot of things. It is definitely not a fast read with simple instructions and easy solutions, but rather an approach to change yourself step by step and the areas you should focus on.
I like that the book doesn't go too much into stereotypes of men and women and treats every person as different and special.
My main criticism is about the area of sex: yes, a lot of women still like the guy to be dominant and pushing. However, as we know, also guys can be submissive and women can be dominant. Hence, this is not the book when you look into alternative types of sexual play (think BDSM). Also, the book recommends to push until she says no. For me, this is something I hate as an advice, especially if you don't know each other well. I rather suggest a careful, talkative approach with affirmative questions to achieve a "yes means yes" type. Can seem a bit slow, but if you and the woman master this together, the sex will be awesome and fun for both of you with your desires met.
Later, when you know each other better, you can talk about hidden desires and potentially become more pushy/dominant if both agree (in a safe space).
Nevertheless, this is one of the best books out there for the modern, feminist man to read about women and dating. Compared to other pickup and stereotype literature, this one wins by far. So I still give it 5 stars.















