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Presumed Another Trip Down the Rabbit Hole.

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Showing 1-25 of 300 posts in this discussion
Initial post: May 24, 2012, 4:22:11 PM PDT
Tammy says:
Baez had no business representing a death penalty case in the first place. The smug nobody couldn't help himself and put his client in extreme jeapordy for the publicity. We are outraged by this tragedy because we watched him bumble thru the entire trial and she was acquitted? Anyone with a lick of sense knows she is at LEAST guilty of neglect. Wont be buying or reading. What kind of lawyer lets his client face the death penalty and rot in jail for 3 years for an "addident" Rubbish.Presumed Guilty: Casey Anthony: The Inside Story

Posted on May 24, 2012, 8:07:55 PM PDT
skbsoccermom says:
Those jurors went right down that rabbit hole with him. I was astounded that they sang his praises on TV. I guess that just goes to show what a bunch of idiots they really are. We laughed watching him bumble and fumble around that courtroom, tripping over his tongue, but the village idiots thought he was brilliant! How funny is that?!

In reply to an earlier post on May 24, 2012, 9:33:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 9:58:25 PM PDT
David Molloy says:
I was unaware that in the state of Florida the accused may refuse to be charged with 1st-degree murder. And that his or her lawyer can demand his client be released from jail forthwith. And upon hearing such a demand, the state, its officials and agents will cause the doors of the jail to be thrown open. And that will be the end of it, all charges being henceforth and forever dropped. (ed. Note: I've been unable to locate, much less cite, the applicable Florida statute -or- even any specific Article of Faith)

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 6:35:51 PM PDT
Tammy says:
How about if the accused had admitted what happened, the state would have been hard pressed to charge her with first degree murder. Her failure to cooperate or tell the truth caused her to be charged with 1st degree murder, the only logical conclusion. Who does that? This isn't hard.

Posted on May 29, 2012, 9:21:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 10:41:13 PM PDT
David Molloy says:
The accused has no obligation to "cooperate" with the state or otherwise roll over to serve up an indictment. The state has the obligation to prove their case absent the defendant's participation. That's the way the system is set up, in large part because the state has virtually all the resources. If there's a glaring weakness in the system, it's the immunity enjoyed by the prosecution - that prosecutors don't have to answer/pay for wrongful or malicious prosecutions. Which is exactly why we need organizations like the Innocence Project, since its inception racking up nearly 300 exonerations in capital cases - an extraordinary number by any measure, but especially when you consider the state's absolute resistance to being overturned or reversed.

Nonetheless, you insist the accused simply "tell the truth," assuming the state will recognize and accept the truth when they see it. But what about the exonerated, the 300, they told the truth and were still found guilty of crimes they didn't commit. And the state couldn't have been happier, the truth be damned. And not one prosecutor missing a wink of sleep much less a generous paycheck and an abundant retirement package for framing innocent people. And in these prosecutors you place your faith, simply to get Casey Anthony. In short, to trade 300 innocent people to gain one highly questionable guilty verdict.

Posted on May 30, 2012, 1:24:30 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 30, 2012, 1:28:56 PM PDT
David Malloy- No, this was not a case in which we are hypothesizing a "highly questionable guilty verdict". I watched the entirety of the trial, and the only thing highly questionable was the NOT guilty verdict returned by this jury. I get it, you sound angry and bitter about the people who have been unjustly found guilty in our court of law. I do not believe in the death penalty either. And I share with you the rage towards those prosecutors that with such vengence circumvent the truth. But the Casey Anthony prosecutors were NOT seeking a guilty verdict with the very barest of circumstantial evidence. They had an extremely compelling story, a mother does not do what this one did, an accident is never made to look like a murder, Casey was in complete control of that family (jailhouse tapes simply do not allow for the story Baez told of an abused girl) and the circumstantial evidence backed it up and it was unfortunately too much for this jury to put together or they did not want to be responsible for possibly spending the rest of her life in jail. They said it themselves they were lost and confused on multiple issues. I was confused by their confusion. They responses after the trial showed they believed the defense's story - though no evidence to back it up. It comes down to the fact that what the defense was saying just was NOT reasonable. I watched the entire trial and I watched some pre-trial news blasts. Mainly interviews by Jose Baez-NONE by people like Nancy Grace and turned off anything that spewed so-called experts' beliefs in whether she was guilty or not. I waited for the evidence. I put it together. Something I clearly remember was J Baez on a news show emphatic that "they" (Casey and her defense team and family) all believe that Caylee was alive and that the police were so focused on Casey they refused to follow up on leads of Caylee sightings. Remembering this and then listening to the defense's opening told me - strategy change- a body was found so it now can't be the Nanny story Casey has been insisting on. Jose Baez has really hurt himself with this case. Whether it was his idea to explain away the callousness of the 31 days with the molestation story- or it was Casey's idea, either way..both of them have hit the point where people just cannot abide.

Oh...and you say the accused has no obligation to "cooperate" with law enforcement. OK. But MOST mothers would 100% of the time cooperate with law enforcement in a situation like this. 100%. Unless of course they are guilty of something and know there will be hell to pay.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012, 9:33:46 PM PDT
David Molloy says:
Well, Andrew, we apparently followed the very same trial but came to radically different conclusions. Regarding the jury, I have my own theory as to what tipped the balance in favor of the not-guilty verdict: Jeff Ashton. But mine is really more than a theory since everyone saw Mr. Ashton make a muddle of the state's already paper-thin case, for example, hitting the jury over the head with the absurd and completely unproven notion of death-by-duct-tape and chloroform. Also the criminal genius of Casey Anthony, who apparently astounded law enforcement with her ability to make up elaborate stories and stick to them until the bitter end - and apparently turning hardened detectives and experienced prosecutors into quivering bowls of jello in the process.

So I must conclude that Casey Anthony is a genius - certainly genius enough to totally mesmerize and control her chief antagonist Mr. Ashton. While at the same time convincing the jury that Mr. Ashton was a hysterical whack job, a man whom had lost his mind in his singular quest to convict Ms. Anthony no matter what.

But back in reality, I for one was shocked when the state rested its case. I mean, I just sat there thinking, "What? That's it? That's all you've got!?" Because I've seen some weak cases in my day, but few weaker than the state's case against Casey Anthony. They couldn't dig up a single witness to say Casey was a neglectful mother, much less a murdering mother. They couldn't determine the cause of death, the manner of death, the time of death, or a plausible motive. Yet, they expected the jury to assume everything, as if motherhood itself was evidence of murder.

The state also wanted the public to assume Casey was behind everything; the death of Caylee, the "cover-up," the disposal of the body in a nearby swamp, and finally the burning desire to lead the life of a party-girl unencumbered by the responsibilities of motherhood. Still, not a single witness, and not a scintilla of evidence. Just a tenuous theory involving the manufacture of chloroform, not to "kill," but to stun the victim, and then the careful application of duct-tape to suffocate and thus murder Caylee. That is, instead of using a common, everyday pillow to achieve the same end. Truly, a "criminal genius."

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2012, 4:17:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 31, 2012, 4:29:39 AM PDT
Of course she was guilty of everything. And not only that, she was freaking sloppy and made lots of mistakes. Her car stunk of death, a pair of her pants in the backseat stunk of death, Caylee's babydoll in the front passenger child seat stunk of death. A hair with a deathband was found, cadaver dogs hit on her trunk, coffin flies were found in her trunk. Her solution was to abandon her car by a dumpster, in an area known for car theft, with an empty purse in the front seat. Where are you seeing genius in this?

Circumstantial evidence is evidence and Casey's behavior clearly points to her trying to bury Caylee's body in the backyard at some point.

She snuck home at a time she knew her parents would be gone, backed her car into the driveway (her neighbor had never seen her park that way before) and walked next door to borrow a shovel. She claimed she wanted to dig up a "bamboo root" so her child, who she was already fully aware was dead, wouldn't trip over it. Cadaver dogs hit in the backyard, the soil in the garden was disturbed. Cadaver dogs hit by the playhouse. So...Casey backs her car into the garage at a time her parents weren't home so that whatever she is getting out of her trunk won't be visible. She takes Caylee, triple-bagged into the backyard, starts to dig, decides it's too much hard work, puts Caylee back in the trunk and looks for somewhere else to dump her.

I don't know why the "party lifestyle" theory is something you find so farfetched. Casey has done many things that point to her selfishness. She broke up with Jesse Grund (who had become like a father to Caylee and still wanted to marry her after discovering that Caylee wasn't his), because she felt like he "loved Caylee more than her."

Casey stole 400.00 from her sick grandfather, who lived in a nursing home. Casey stole about 40,000 dollars from her parents, Casey even stole from Caylee's piggy bank and college fund. That doesn't strike you as selfish?

If you want more motivation, in the second nine-one-one call, Cindy can clearly be heard threatening to get a court order and take custody of Caylee.

About the chloroform. High levels of it were found in the trunk. AFTER high levels were found, the computer forensics expert was asked to search for the word "chloroform." What he discovered were google searches for "how to make chloroform", "recipe for chloroform", "chloroform habit." The searcher next started googling the individual ingredients for chloroform. They googled "acetone" and "peroxide." Other searches were discovered for "neck-breaking" and "household weapons."

Caylee had duct tape on her skull and tangled in the hair mat. It managed to hold her mandible and her skull together. All her teeth were still intact. She was discovered in Casey's old pet cemetary. Casey and Kiomarie buried their pets there. They would triple bag their animals and draw hearts on the bag. A heart sticker was found with Caylee's remains.

So you call strong circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence pointing to the fact that CASEY ANTHONY was driving around with her daughter's dead body in the trunk of her car to be weak?

What tipped the scales was that the jurors were stupid idiots.

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2012, 5:43:23 AM PDT
Iluvmymac says:
You spend way too much time worrying about Casey. Get a life. She has been found Not Guilty and that is the end of it.

Posted on May 31, 2012, 7:17:08 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 9, 2012, 4:32:18 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2012, 9:28:53 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 31, 2012, 1:30:52 PM PDT
David Molloy says:
Heather, I was being facetious regarding "genius," primarily because that was Mr. Ashton's implied conclusion, not my own, that Casey Anthony had so thoroughly bamboozled the prosecutors and investigators with her elaborate, detailed lies - they were left to conclude that she possessed a mind developed way beyond their own. You know, a true criminal "genius." What else could Ashton say after getting his clocked cleaned by a "party girl" and her "bozo" lawyer.

As for the chloroform, I think you're playing a little fast and loose with the state's so-called evidence. (I'm assuming here that you accept the state's contention that Casey decided to become a chemist, rather than using a pillow - in yet another sign of her criminal "genius") But if you do accept the state's premise, you can't have it both ways - that she was a genius on one hand, and a bumbling idiot on the other. An important distinction, especially in light of Mr. Ashton's subsequent interviews as to his sheer astonishment regarding Casey's elaborate, make-believe world.

But about the chloroform; The prosecution's case was predicated on the supposition that Casey Anthony manufactured chloroform in her kitchen sink and then used it as the first stage in murdering her daughter. This supposition by the prosecution was based primarily on eighty four (84) computer searches ostensibly made on the Anthony's home computer. Therefore, "Chloroform" became the centerpiece of the prosecution's case, and the "84" searches was their smoking gun.

But late in the trial it was discovered that there had only been one (1) brief search related to chloroform (possibly related to Cindy's pet ingesting "chlorophyll" -or- based on a remark made by Casey's boyfriend; "Win her over with chloroform" - in both cases a far cry from the crazed mother supposedly conjuring up death potions as portrayed by the over-zealous prosecution.

With the search facts exposed, Ashton's case collapsed. Without a means-of-death, there was no motive. Without a cause of death, there was no murder. The jury had no choice but a finding of not guilty.

Finally, note that when Mr. Ashton was interviewed on national television regarding his book, he admitted that we'll "probably never really know what happened to Caylee." A stunning admission, don't you think? In other words, Mr. Ashton admitted that he went into court not knowing what actually happened to Caylee, that he had no more idea than the man-in-the-moon. And he still doesn't.

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2012, 9:37:18 AM PDT
David Molloy says:
Those so-called "coffin flies": The prosecution's bug expert Dr. Haskell testified that he believed Caylee's remains were left in the car trunk based on the development of "coffin flies." However, the coffin flies were NOT found in the car's trunk, but in a towel and plastic bag believed to have wrapped Caylee's body. Meanwhile, the car's trunk yielded a single leg of a single blowfly - the same leg which might be found in virtually any car in America on any given day.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 12:04:45 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 12:42:00 AM PDT
Chicago Kat: Wow, my whole post just went over your head. Too many words?

You spend too much time defending the babykiller and her fat, sleazy, loser of a lawyer. You also just admitted you don't really know or care about the case and why she was found not guilty since you think I spend too much time on it. So why are you defending her? Are you getting paid?

You get a life.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 12:12:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 12:35:32 AM PDT
David: Later in the trial it was also proven that Cindy could not have made the searches because she was worried about her dogs ingesting "chlorophyl" unless she could be in two places at once. The State exposed the fact that she perjured herself in their rebuttal case.

People have been prosecuted without a body. Caylee, a healthy child was found dumped in the woods in a garbage bag with duct tape on her skull. Only a moron would think that was an accident.

Cause of death does not need to be proven. A motive does not need to be proven, although anyone with a brain can see that everything in Casey's life centers around her own personal happiness and that most likely had something to do with it. She was not "in shock" her lies were lucid and she tailored her story every time she was cornered.

When Ashton said "we'll probably not know what really happened to Caylee" it's because Casey is the biggest liar in the world. But healthy children who drown in pools usually don't end up in the woods in garbage bags with duct tape on their skulls. Casey couldn't even be bothered to report her missing.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 12:19:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 12:43:29 AM PDT
David: Sure you can tear little pieces of evidence to shreds if you want. But put it all together. You are not an idiot, you seem pretty smart. So stop holding pieces up to the flashlight one by one and thinking if you discredit each one, it can be discarded and not taken into the big picture. IMO, there are too many coincidences.

1) RIGHT AROUND THE TIME CAYLEE GOES MISSING, Casey's car begins to smell of death. Casey was the last person seen with Caylee. Casey was lying about Caylee's whereabouts for a month. There is no proof that anyone else even knew that Caylee was not with Casey and the nanny, the way Casey was claiming.
2) A hair belonging to Caylee or Casey with a deathband was found in the car.
3) Two cadaver dogs hit on it.
4) Seven people who have smelled death before identified the smell.
5) Casey was aware of the smell and texted Amy about it, first blaming it on roadkill and then blaming it on squirrels crawling in her engine. Casey ABANDONED her car until it was towed.
6) The stain. Casey's pants in the backseat smelled like death. Caylee's babydoll that she carried everywhere with her smelled of death and was found in the car.
7) Now the blowfly leg.

At best, Casey is a neglectful mother who was driving around with her daughter's dead body in her trunk after an "accident." Casey is a neglectful mother who dumped her child in the swamp a block from her house while proclaiming to the world that Caylee was alive and earning two hundred thousand dollars selling pictures of her dead child to the media.

What "good mother" doesn't take responsibility when an accident occurs and give their own child a decent burial instead of going partying and getting paid by the media, talking about signing autographs for her defense and flirting with her bodyguard while her child is rotting out in the elements?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 12:30:23 AM PDT
No Daisy, that was all part of the discovery. The jurors were idiots who didn't do their jobs. They claimed they didn't base their verdict on emotion, when they based it purely on Casey's body language, how they felt she "seemed" and the fact that they didn't like George.

The jurors ignored the part of their jury instructions where they were told they were not to consider penalty during the guilt phase. Jennifer Ford flat out admitted that factored into the verdict. The jurors ignored the part of the jury instructions that stated that the State did not have to prove motive. They were discussing the case amongst themselves, as proven by the fact that they asked to see the heart sticker and the fact that one of the alternates, Russell Heukler, who was not part of the deliberations, was stating on the news the day of the verdict exactly why the jury voted the way they did. One of the jurors admitted to caving even though he felt like she was guilty because he knew he wasn't going to change their minds.

The TV chef juror was shopping himself out for interviews, but would accept "no less than five figures."

Show me some proof of the defense side. Casey couldn't even back up the molestation accusations. Casey herself told her shrinks that there was no way Caylee could have gotten in the pool herself and told the shrinks that she thought George killed her while molesting her in the pool. So IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT according to the one person who knows for sure what happened to Caylee. So someone's a murderer. Take your pick. And I bet you're going to say George...

Posted on Jun 1, 2012, 4:48:00 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 9, 2012, 4:32:31 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 5:25:30 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 5:38:51 AM PDT
David Molloy says:
Heather, you're starting to grow on me. You make good arguments, but don't expect too much agreement on this end. Not after the prosecution blew their case-in-chief; death by chloroform and duct-tape.

I understand the emotion involved in many of the circumstances, particularly the way Caylee's remains were disposed of. I just don't believe that Casey was necessarily responsible. I also don't believe in convicting someone based on a pile of red herrings - such as "getting paid by the media," which is true, but not for the cold and callous reasons asserted by Casey's detractors - since the money earned from the photographs was used to hire expert witnesses and other necessary defense expenses. Remember, the state has virtually unlimited resources, while the accused is typically penniless - as in this case.

I certainly concede that the smell of death was virtually everywhere, but we already knew Caylee was deceased. The prosecution didn't have to belabor a fact already in evidence; the presence of a dead body. What they did have to prove was why, when, and how Caylee died. They didn't.

From my perspective this case started out on the wrong foot, that is, the flat foot of law enforcement, who came in like bulls in a China shop breaking everything and running roughshod over a suspect well acquainted with being the accused. I mean, after a lifetime of "Cindy," pointing ham-fisted fingers at Casey was exactly the wrong approach. Given her life experience, Casey simply shifted into auto-pilot - thus becoming impervious to everything and anything the authorities threw at her. And it was glaringly obvious during the trial that the police and prosecutors had been driven to distraction by Casey's ability to shut them out of her personal reality.

So, we ended up right back where we started: a dead child and no answers.

Posted on Jun 1, 2012, 7:53:30 AM PDT
JP says:
"Cheney Mason distances himself from opening statement: Defense attorney Cheney Mason revealed Thursday night that he disagreed with colleague Jose Baez's opening statement in the Casey Anthony murder trial. In the statement, Baez alleged that George Anthony had sexually abused his daughter. "I did not know it was going to happen," Mason said at a conference at Pace Law School in New York. Mason said that Baez's opening statement was "not the right thing to do." Mason told law students in the audience that they should never make a promise that they cannot deliver on. "That was something he did," Mason said of Baez."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 10:13:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 10:34:57 AM PDT
You're starting to grow on me too David. I like how you can discuss this and not get personal and start calling the other side haters, lynch mobbers and stupid and brainwashed by Nancy Grace.

My point was that what kind of mother would make an accident look like a murder and then toss her baby in a swamp to rot while lying about her whereabouts and partying? Casey disposed of Caylee's body and she did it alone, that's what her car smelling of death says to me. I don't believe George had anything more to do with that than the imaginary nanny did. Her story has changed four times while George's story has remained consistent. I think Casey is the sort of person who would throw her father under the bus to save her own butt.

Maybe Caylee died of an accident and Casey cared more about herself, what people would say about her and having fun to call in and report it. IMO, Casey was protecting herself when she threw Caylee in the woods, she obviously was not protecting Caylee.

And about Cindy Anthony, I agree with you. She's a control freak and she is beyond vile. However in the jailhouse tapes, Casey is the one in control, George and Cindy were bowing and scraping to her and begging her for information.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 11:00:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 11:21:40 AM PDT
Daisy: Are you kidding? Yes, it WAS evidence. It may not have been used in the trial, but that doesn't make it not exist.

I disagree that the alternate was simply expressing his opinion, he was speaking for all of them, hence why he kept using the word "we."

A juror wanted to be paid for an interview and that's no big deal? I disagree, I think it shows his motivations. He had an agent shopping interviews for him only a couple hours after the trial. Not only that, he was freaking greedy.

How does one prove molestation? Because Casey said so that, that makes her above reproach and automatically makes him guilty? So we should believe a liar who has a record of lying to elicit pity from people and for her own benefit? George never had a stroke either.

Regarding the proof of molestation: Doctor's appointments, testimony about the oddity of their relationship. You don't think it's odd that in 22 years no one saw anything or sensed anything untoward about George? Name one person who knows him personally and has known him for years who believes this claim. The only people who believe George ever touched her are a bunch of strangers on the internet and the dumbass jury.

Casey can't even keep her story straight. She has claimed:

1) Lee used to go into her room with a flashlight and fondle her. At the age of fifteen, Casey told him that if he ever did it again, she would kill him. Lee apparently took this threat so seriously and was so sure that she was capable of murder that he was able to curb his perverted lust and abruptly stopped doing it. Casey said George "might have when she was little but she didn't remember."
2) Casey told a shrink that George molested her for years and years beginning around age 8 and had intercourse with her around thirteen. He stopped doing it about a year before Casey conceived Caylee.
3) Casey told another shrink that George molested her for years and it went on and on to the point that she was afraid that he was Caylee's father.
4) Casey told a shrink that Caylee was probably conceived when she was drugged and raped by about 5 different guys.

So you think Nancy Grace trademarked the term "pet cemetary" and no one else can ever use it without her permission? This somehow makes her the only source of that term?

I absolutely believe Casey was lying with that bogus drowning story and accusing her father of murder. What I was pointing out though is that if it was really an accident, why would she be accusing her father or simultaneously molesting and purposely drowning Caylee in the pool? She stated openly that Caylee couldn't have gotten in the pool by herself. She accused George of drugging her so that he could carry out his nefarious sex slaying.

It's called common sense. If you honestly think this could be an accident, name one person who is not completely psychotic that would take advantage of a tragic accident, purposely call an accident a murder and then blame it all on her father? So either Caylee drowned in the pool accidentally and Casey is a psychotic liar who tried to frame her father for murder or Casey is a psychotic murderer who tried to blame her father for murder. You see why I'm throwing the "accident" theory out? Someone killed Caylee. If it really was an accident, then Casey is still a really, really, really bad person who accused her father of the worst things anyone can be accused of: Child molestation, murder and incest.

So pick one: Either George did it, Casey did it or Casey is a psychotic liar who framed her father for murder.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012, 1:56:01 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 9, 2012, 4:32:51 AM PDT]

Posted on Jun 1, 2012, 7:33:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012, 7:35:54 PM PDT

Why did Jose Baez go to the media in late 2008 and state: "WE believe that Caylee is alive" IF.... they (he & Casey) knew all along it was a tragic accident and Caylee was never missing... Why would he say this and why would he complain to the media over and over that Law Enforcement was NOT following up on vetted, reliable Caylee sightings, that they were only interested in putting the blame on his client Casey Anthony? Why would he/they do that?


In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012, 7:21:45 AM PDT
David Molloy says:
Andrew - I can only speculate.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2012, 9:32:17 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 2, 2012, 9:36:46 AM PDT]
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Initial post:  May 24, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 3, 2012

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Presumed Guilty: Casey Anthony: The Inside Story
Presumed Guilty: Casey Anthony: The Inside Story by Peter Golenbock (Hardcover - July 3, 2012)
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