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The Shills Are Out In Force On This One!

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Showing 1-25 of 55 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Feb 4, 2012 11:52:20 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 10:40:59 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
EA still gets brown pants when you mention "SPORE" to them. Thousands and thousands of 1-star reviews for that decent game that unfortunately came bundled with a draconian DRM scheme.
And, it turns out, those of us who were warning about what the future of DRM is coming to, we were right. That future is now.

THE RECKONING requires ORIGIN, a online digital distributor that resembles STEAM but is much, much worse.

According to their own EULA: " EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware."

In other words, with ORIGIN, EA wants to gather information on what SOFTWARE you run and WHAT EXACTLY YOU ARE DOING on your computer.

This is yet another underhanded attempt by a gaming publishing behemoth not only to spy on its own customers, but also treat them as inmates: apparently EA believes they can gather information without our knowledge (they refuse to specify WHAT information they dig for), intrude our privacy and potentially make unilateral and dictatorial decisions regarding our property.

Now, exactly because they know how much any sane person would hate their ORIGIN, this time they EXPECT the backlash from the gamers. Hence all their shills here.

The same Profiles have been attacking any negative review of the game. They claim that is because the game has not been activated yet - but this does not seem to bother them when it comes to 5-star reviews. Why, they have submitted enough of them themselves!

It is easy to spot a shill: he has a barren Profile with little or no other activity (no reviews, no Lists) and their interest peaks and expires with only the product they are promoting.
The same Profiles will appear again and again under every negative review, insulting, intimidating and mocking any argument that points out what an awful idea ORIGIN actually is.

Reviewers who have received too many negative votes would be advised to save, delete and re-post their reviews.

As for the rest of us, will the Amazon community stay idle while these underpaid PR spinners skew public opinion?

Posted on Feb 5, 2012 7:19:25 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 7:55:44 AM PST
Mister Grey says:
From what I understand, everywhere I seem to go agrees that all you require is a one time activation through Origin and you don't need it running. On the EA FAQ it says you need it running, but everywhere else - including Amalur's Forums - seem to say that it isn't required to have it run. I'm inclined to agree with the forums, and even if they're wrong, that's no concern of mine. I'd prefer to support a new third party company and swallow my pride over Origin, hell, these guys pushed to have the game on Steam for the people who didn't want to have to deal with Origin. That's aces in my book, that they would even try to get it on a different platform for people who weren't comfortable with Origin, never mind that Steam has a lot of the same EULA that people take issue with, but that's neither here nor there.

Besides, a one time activation where you don't require Origin running to play the game is bad to you? Would you prefer that they did have you require it running? Of course you don't, so I'm curious as to why you would want to harm the developer in this endeavor and actually have EA say, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" where they just decide to go all out on DRM for each game they publish from here on. You really think they're going to change their minds about Origin? After how much money they put into it? Nope, they're more likely to take what you did and make it mandatory regardless. They're screwed either way right? They can afford it, they'll do it. Hell, even UbiSoft started some fresh new hell with Anno 2070, even though they already received quite the backlash from past endeavors. You seem to think corporations follow common sense and believe in the honor system, let me fill you in on a little secret... they don't. Even CD Projekt Red - the guys that developed The Witcher 2 - ran around sending letters that threatened lawsuit against individuals they believed had pirated. And they're the good guys, the guys that patched out the DRM and made The Witcher 2 DRM free on Good Old Games. I can only imagine what knee-jerk reaction EA will have, the most likely reaction is the aforementioned "Shut down everything! Nobody blinks or breathes without my saying so!"

Why not go after Mass Effect 3 which will also require Origin? Whether it's running or not remains to be seen, I can't find any confirmation. If you want to hit EA hard, hit that game. Since, you know, EA owns BioWare it should make a larger impact. Also! BioWare is a well known developer and is pretty much like Steven Spielberg, tack his name on to anything and it's guaranteed to be three stars. Swarming them with bad reviews should send a much more clear message.

38 Studios really doesn't need this kind of crap, nor can they afford it, especially given this is their first big game and they certainly don't have BioWare's popularity. Not to mention what they've been doing with and for the community, they gave away a free deck of cards to people who joined the forums and made an account early on. I missed out, but that's my fault. Did you hear about Day of Reckoning? Where they will have live streams from all sorts of people and they give away prizes? They also gave free game codes for each streamer to give at his/her discretion. They didn't even start this, they heard about a bunch of people doing it and said, "This sounds awesome! Let's get behind this! Here, have all this free stuff to give out while we set up an awesome contest giving people things ranging from t-shirts to a brand new desktop!" Why would you want to hurt these guys? They could have taken the free publicity and left it alone, but instead they wanted to take part and make it something better.

If you want to make a difference hit the companies that EA owns, all you're doing is hurting people that put up with EA because EA has the money to support them... It's like beating the crap out of the guy that decides to get a loan from a bank you happen to disagree with, instead of say going after the bank itself. EA isn't going to do a double take here, they already think they're taking a risk by publishing the game like they do with everyone in their Partnership Program and you're just confirming it.

I'm all for going after EA on stuff like this, but I tend to pick my targets wisely. I don't see how going after 38 Studios is going to change EA's mind, I'd rather go after the guys they spent millions to acquire.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 8:31:17 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 10:13:07 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
"Why not go after Mass Effect 3 which will also require Origin?"

When ME3 gets released (and provided it comes with mandatory ORIGIN tie-in), I am sure it will get its due. In all fairness, its time is not now.

I am not out to target any particular game developer or company - and I doubt that anyone else is.
I call them as I see them, giving both praise and criticism for what they decide to DO, not what they proclaim.
I praised EA for keeping the DRM of the original DRAGON AGE ORIGINS reasonable as I praised UBISOFT when they decided to release some of their games DRM-free. But I also had no problem to chastise them when they started utilizing the piracy excuse to slip past us DRM that has nothing to do with piracy but, instead, paves the way for the pay-per-play future their clueless executives have envisioned.

Finally, I have no problem with big companies either. I wish that CR PROJEKT RED was as big if not bigger than EA. They have shown their customers respect and they have invested in goodwill and real value for their product - which is the best way to fight piracy.

It is the unethical and greedy way the 900-pound gorillas of the industry behave that attract the wrath of us gamers. Not the other way around.

Posted on Feb 5, 2012 9:53:10 AM PST
Mister Grey says:
Just to start: I never claimed it was the other way around, I've actually e-mailed my senator that the corporations are largely at fault for piracy, especially with their aggressive tactics. However, you're really only exacerbating the problem, like picking at a scab you refuse to let heal. Same goes for both sides really, but if you really want to have your way... you're not going to get it by pointing and yelling even louder. EA never cared about it before, if they showed they did, they sure did love returning back to this.

You saying you're not out to target a specific developer doesn't really matter, I never accused you of targeting anyone but EA. I may have questioned why you would want to do this to them, but that's because the impact would be greater upon 38 Studios than EA. My argument was that it won't do any good as 38 Studios belongs to EA's Partnership Program, a program where they fund Third Party Developers who otherwise have no real tie to EA in order to get a game out on the market. You're just hurting a studio without even making EA flinch, they already didn't give a damn about the Online Pass debacle thing. They left Curt Schilling to take care of that, one he took care of on his own forums. As much as I've read, I haven't seen EA defend it or send any PR to do damage control.

And I'm aware of your praising and criticising. I read your review of Dungeon Siege 3 and Bulletstorm, respectively. I don't agree with your Bulletstorm review - I loved Waggleton P. Tallylicker and I cried when he died - but on the other you'd see that I did agree.

So the DRM of Dragon Age Origins was reasonable? Even though there was an issue of it locking out people from using their paid DLC? Even though they had bought it straight from EA? I'd actually be surprised if I can reach mine at this point -- not just because of the issue but because they may have shut that down, but last time I had to mess with the settings to get it to stop checking just so I could return to my saves. Thankfully - ironic enough - it was a widely known problem and the solution was easy to find.

CD Projekt Red may have shown good will and real value in their products, but that didn't stop them from running around with lawyers. Which I was surprised it got the press it did, probably because it was such a shock from a developer that tried to keep the game DRM Free... but that still didn't stop them from recognizing that a fair amount of their game was pirated and they sprung into action. It's all good will and value until someone gets a summons.

I'm not here to argue ethics, that's a useless debate. If you want to argue ethics, let's argue how plenty more companies have done far worse than the gaming industry and their justification is whether or not the recall would be more expensive than a simple litigation they can keep quiet. Example Toyota: Where an innocent man went to jail because of defect his car had that caused it to collide with another family's car killing the father, the son and the daughter... the car randomly accelerated and he couldn't brake and he even shouted that he couldn't. I don't see EA's Origin making computers explode and killing people sitting right next to them. Well, yet. And I don't see you going around voting their cars down on random car review websites. There are worst things, worst things everywhere. That doesn't excuse this, but I find ethics to be irrelevant in this matter and it's not the driving force behind my decision to not review against Kingdoms of Amalur. Since, I can recognize that 38 Studios creates jobs and they have people to pay so that those people can continue to afford their homes, their medicine and their groceries. EA's CEOs will just continue to collect their yearly bonus for scratching their butts when they began to itch and think of different ways to keep profit without having to sacrifice the aforementioned bonuses, never mind that if each of them refused a bonus there probably wouldn't be such a problem. Like that BP Oil Boycott, you're really only hurting the guy that owns the gas station.

Like I said, you're not going to get anywhere with Kingdoms of Amalur, you're not going to get anywhere with Shank 2 and you're not going to get anywhere with Syndicate. The guys they don't really care about, if it turns a profit the reviews don't matter to EA. Why do you think they entice people to make pre-orders? So they can get as much as they can in the first week of release. They don't care about reviews and if they do, they don't care about Amazon's. They have Gamespot, IGN, Kotaku, The Escapist, Game Informer (Owned by Gamestop no less!)... well, you get the idea the guys that get the reviews out early and not after launch. BUT! The reviews will matter in the future for 38 Studios when people look at their new MMO and see the horrible reviews placed on Kingdoms of Amalur. Then again, they have Gamespot, IGN, Kotaku, The Escapist, Game Informer... again, you get the idea.

So, hmm... Which side of the forums do you want to continue this discussion?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 10:50:44 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 10:51:29 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
I started both threads but you chose to respond to both. Pick either one, it is up to you.

The original DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS did have a reasonable DRM. It was its DLCs and expansion that brought back the usual EA DRM-madness. A trend that held for the Ultimate edition as well.

Thank you for checking out my reviews. I am glad we can agree on some of the points I am trying to make. After all, life would be boring if we all agreed with each other.

The legal problems of CD PROJEKT stemmed from actually showing respect to their paying customers: when the DRM their distributor (ATARI) had forced upon them caused problems,they patched it out - only a day following the release of THE WITCHER II.
They never actually went after people who downloaded their game

EA will proclaim they do not care about online reviews yet they have been employing a small army of shills to attack any negative review ever since the SPORE fiasco. Sometimes it is good for business the quality of your product to be the cause of a neologism. However, "getting Spored" is not one of them.

I wish 38 STUDIOS the best. But there is always a point where choices can be made. That is the easy part.
The hard part is usually having to live with the consequences of one's choices. Just ask WESTWOOD and BIOWARE and a great number of talented small game developers that gave in to EA's short-term money.
They went to the Dark Side.
And when one exchanges handshakes with the devil, it is futile to complain about blackened

No matter. Here is a good question that can clarify the issues: were EA to offer two editions of their games, a DRM-free one and one tied to ORIGIN, you think anyone would pick the ORIGIN one? I do not either.
Who would want a spying RootKit to give him permission to play the games he already paid for?
Why would someone willingly place his expansive games as hostages to make him dance to the corporate pipers?

VALVE has banned gamers from their Account (in effect stealing back thousands of dollars worth of games!) for infractions they have repeatedly refused to specify.

EA has banned gamers from their games for posting comments in their forums they considered "unacceptable", yet refused to explain which ones and why.

Still think digital distributors the likes of ORIGIN is just another form of DRM and a great idea?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 11:43:33 AM PST
Mister Grey says:
Well, you did start the thread, figured you'd like to call the shot. I won't respond to the other.

Actually CD Projekt Red did try contacting them. Whether or not they actually went through with some or had collected, I can't seem to find out. I've always liked them, don't get me wrong. I bought The Witcher 2 from Good Old Games because it had no DRM and I wanted to support that endeavor, but the way they behaved may have damaged any message that would have had effect on other developers and publishers. I don't know if Stardock has gone after anyone... I actually don't know if they're still in business, which may be a problem in and of its own.

I understand your concern with 38 Studios and I'm glad you wish them your best. That's very level headed of you and you seem tied to your ideals, enough that I know I won't convince you any different. I had hoped to change your mind for the sake of 38 Studios, but if you believe that strongly this will change EA's mind... I know this is just going to go on forever if I continue it. But before that I should continue for this post at least.

I agree wholeheartedly with your message, I just don't like seeing people losing their jobs. If this has any lasting effect, it'll be on 38 Studios, I can't get behind the idea of harming people without scratching the ones behind the problem. A lot of people look at stars and think, "That's a crappy product, the developer isn't any good!" then they go on to ignore that the reason it didn't get good reviews is because of EA, they largely think it's 38 Studios. Even if you hit EA, you're going to hit people they want you to hit. You're not going to touch the CEOs, but I've argued that and it had no weight. I suppose I'm trying to explain my side of why I won't, but you know that already.

I read that Valve doesn't cut ties to the single player ones, but the multiplayer you can't play on their server. Or was that simply for cheating... I think that one may have been for hacks and cheating. After reading that article I am sure it is for cheating... but that's something I've known. And I know EA bans people from Origin when they're banned on forums. That doesn't sit well with me, but I'm here to support 38 Studios. I've actually decided to stop buying anything EA unless the developer is someone I really want to support. As for Valve and Steam, I haven't bought much anything Valve related in awhile, but I am curious as to what cut they take through Steam. I tend to buy retail regardless - unless it's a really good sale - so I'm not sure.

I've never thought Origin or Steam to be a great idea. I actually wasn't happy with Steam early on - digital distribution at all, really - I didn't like the idea my games could disappear and I'd be left with nothing. I've said Steam beats Games for Windows Live, but what doesn't? I've grown tolerant of the setup, but I can't help but feel I'm a frog in a slowly boiling pot of water. I'm not willing to give up on the PC, however and unfortunately a lot of these games are hopping on one or the other. I'm also not willing to contribute to the numbers of pirated games even though I've purchased the game, they never consider that variable or the variable of people who can't otherwise obtain it legally for that matter. I'd like to think CD Projekt could run a project of their own where they convince developers to sell games through their Good Old Games website or a site of similar nature but for new games where they don't have DRM on them, I'd like to see the sales numbers spike. It would certainly help their case and us, shame it would take way too much effort unless the cash was there upfront. Great PR though. Man I would let CD Projekt take all of my money if they made a Good Old Games for new games -- they could take all of my money AND my left kidney.

Anyways, I think we've reached an impasse. I'm not willing to do this to 38 Studios and I can't seem to convince you -- doesn't help that I agree with your cause, may argue differently with your methods, but I'm not one for DRM. You've made solid cases, and I'd like to think I did, but I'm not so sure. I actually want to thank you for being reasonable about a lot of this, I know I seem sarcastic and a bit jerk, but I couldn't help it -- I'm like that. Didn't mean to come off as one, not that I thought you thought I did... just want to get this squared away as I wish to part amicably.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 12:11:53 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 12:14:18 PM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
I never supported piracy.
EA, VALVe or whoever want to go after the people who downloaded their developing work (of years!) for free, find them and throw the book at them!

Pirates will never pay for your game. Period.
They cannot afford it or they have been saturated with the grab-as-much-as-you-can culture that will not be deterred by any form of copy-protection or DRM. That is why not a single game managed to avoid piracy.
That is why everybody and their grandmother knows that DRM is never inserted to prevent piracy. It is there to milk even more money out of paying customers (how do Limited Activations fight piracy?) and promote the industry's dream of turning our PCs into their proprietary consoles by use of Digital Distribution RootKits.

This is a lesson not lost to CD RPOJEKT RED - that is why they threatened but did not go after the German pirates. Nevertheless, this is besides the point.

They are a shinning example of what a game developer should be, because:
(a) they focus on their paying customers and not the pirates,
(once the DRM became a problem they did not hesitate a moment to remove it)
(b) they respect us by offering FREE DLCs with much better content than the usual
(in contrast, care to check how much essential content was yanked out to be sold as DLC for Civ5 or THE SIMS?)
(c) they listen to our complaints. Most gamers hate DRM so they offered a DRM-free version of their game as well.

I cannot know what your affiliation is with 38 STUDIOS but I these would be the advice of a seasoned gamer who has played everything, from PONG ever since.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 3:04:15 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 3:10:01 PM PST
Mister Grey says:
I know you don't support piracy, but that's their little excuse. So long as it's happening, they're going to use it. And when it's not, it's used sales and sharing, then they'll find a way to blame your grandparents. Oh! Playing a two player game in the same house with a person who doesn't live in the household? That's piracy by proxy! Well, anyways, you get my point. I never wanted to accuse you of anything, if I had I apologize for it as that's poor form on my part.

Actually, a few people I have known have pirated games to make sure it's something they can get behind. They usually delete them if it's not a game they'll play, but if it is they pick up the game at the store at a price they feel is worth it, other people tend to pirate a game to get around the DRM. Then there's the people who can't afford it, had no intention and otherwise can't legally acquire it. I agree though that the vast majority won't purchase the game and they're terrible for it -- except maybe the ones that can't otherwise acquire it legally, I think the companies should work to get their games to those people instead of complaining that they're pirating it. And maybe also the poor, but that's because I feel bad about it to an extent. I understand it's a luxury and not a right, that they can save up for it, etc.

Regarding CD Projekt, I believe I said I like CD Projekt Red, I'd give all of my money and left kidney if they'd just create a website for new games to be sold DRM free. Personally I'm a little curious that publishers are willing to put up old games, but can't seem to bring themselves to do the same with new games. I'm not sure what the difference is, I'm sure there is one somewhere, but I can't seem to think of one on my own at the moment, may be I'm a bit biased about it for now... might need to think more on that later, but I can't see the harm really.

Oh, and I don't have any affiliation with 38 Studios. I'm just a long time gamer, not as long as you, but I used to play games upside down before it started giving me a headache. Why? Do you think I could make it as a shill? What's the pay? Worth the work? I'm joking of course, I don't think I could ever be comfortable in that kind of job. I guess I could be called a fan of theirs after seeing them in the forums, wanting to take part in the streams, meet up with gamers at local stores for the launch event... they're a good bunch and if they were in the hands of CD Projekt I think the experience would be absolutely perfect. For now, I'll put up with Origin for them.

Posted on Feb 7, 2012 12:53:43 PM PST
doz70 says:
I'm glad i don't care this much about the Giant Conspiracy of Game Developers(tm) out to steal my personal info and spy on me googling "how to make a cheesecake". I get just get to sit back and enjoy playing a game. But I thank all you tireless crusaders out there making sure gaming companies don't break into my house and kill me to steal my pc and check my buying habits. Probably some wierd scheme to turn a profit on thier part, huh.

Posted on Feb 7, 2012 2:46:17 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 7, 2012 2:51:52 PM PST
Eric DiPier says:
jeez, doz70, i don't think you could get much more naive than that post. wow. but in a way you make neurosplicer's point for him: there should be a choice. folks like you who welcome invasive and intrusive practices can choose to accept it, and folks like neurosplicer can choose not to. the problem is that EA doesn't want to give you a choice. either accept their DRM or don't play their games.

and you know what's funny? that in a nutshell is why piracy exists: because there will always be a group out there who says "you know what? screw you, i'm going to play the game AND not accept your DRM, watch me!"

i've noticed the shills as well in the Amalur reviews. ridiculous. you'd think they would get smart and stop following the standard "three sentences, no real specific information but lots of praise for the developer" format.

Posted on Feb 8, 2012 7:21:51 AM PST
doz70 says:
There's a difference between being naive and not caring. What you see as "invasive and intrusive" and the OP sees as being made an "inmate" I see as umm..well nothing. I've never been hacked by origin. If origin "KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT I'M DOING" it's never made the tiniest bit of difference in my life. Steam has never shut down and taken all my games away. These are games. They are fun. I'm not going to get all stressed out about them, I have actual real things I could worry about if I wanted to do that.

Naive is the misguided belief that piracy exists "in a nutshell" because of some noble hackers out there fighting the system for the common man. Piracy exists because 15 year old boys don't want to pay for video games when stealing them is easy.

Posted on Feb 8, 2012 4:27:02 PM PST
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Posted on Feb 9, 2012 5:43:14 AM PST
"Yeah. It will. It will make untold millions and undoubtably receive critical worship like some kind demigod." Possibly. But did anyone ever stop once to think maybe it's because people LIKE the game? Folks that love the game are going to get it and don't care about some hidden DRM thing that has 0 effect on gameplay.

Spore was a failure, i played it through and it was rather dull after a short while. 4 fun minigames and a boring space mode. the DRM, did not effect that, nor my decision that I didn't enjoy the game. Darkspore of course is the other way around I will always enjoy that one.

As for spying on us in our homes... Really? I've heard of paranoid before, but this is a bit rediculous. Targeted Content is far superior to me than random content. If I'm watching TV or looking up things ont he internet, i want the Ads or the results to be what I am looking for. Imagine if your cable company knew you loved video games because you filled out a survey or watched a lot of a video game channel or something, and now all your commercials are video game trailers and ads. I would love that.

I would also like the company (38 studios) to look at what all the players are doing and like more than others, if it seems that 95% of the people love X and dislike Y, then they would enhance X and not Y to make those 95% happier, without that they may have assumed Y was better and we would all be unhappy.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2012 9:00:49 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
SPORE was an utter failure not because it did not sell millions - but because it sold far LESS than projected.
As a result, only a fraction of the development/promotion expenses were ever recovered.

And its idiotic DRM played a major part in this failure.

Have you played any ...UBISOFT games lately?

Posted on Feb 9, 2012 10:10:57 AM PST
"Have you played any ...UBISOFT games lately? " Yes I have as a matter of fact, what does that have to do with anything o.o?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2012 10:52:53 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 9, 2012 10:54:14 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:

No gamer would ever choose any kind of always-online-DRM to play Single-Player games.
Such as UBISOFT's POS.


Posted on Feb 9, 2012 4:21:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 9, 2012 4:31:49 PM PST
J. says:
Perhaps in a few years when the "target demographic" for video games has matured, we can stop worrying about this immense sense of entitlement that leads people to believe a company has no right to protect their product. Of course by then, there will be a new generation, equal in naivete and inexperience, believing the same thing.

Do you drive your car without the Title?
Do you own a home and shred the paperwork then get angry when asked to present it?

These companies invest millions into their products. THEIR products. Perhaps you don't read the EULA, but you don't even own the game. The publisher does. You own the right to play, and it's THEIR right to ask you to confirm that.

And ironically, none of this would be necessary - the DRM, the anti-used sales measures, the piecemeal DLC incentives - if it wasn't for that very same sense of profound entitlement that led so many to believe it was ok to steal (pirate, for those who like softer words) their products in the first place.

Can you choose not to buy their products because of the DRM? Sure you can. But it's no moral stand the way people try to make out. It's juvenile petulance, a complete lack of respect for the many people who worked hard on the product, and a profound misunderstanding of the reasons why they choose to and/or must do it this way.

EDIT: To add a bit of context and insight. Do you want to know what happens to companies that try to do things "for the gamer?" Here's a segment of an interview with CD Projekt Red CEO Marcin Iwinski.

"I was checking regularly the number of concurrent downloads on torrent aggregating sites, and for the first 6-8 weeks [since the game's release] there was around 20-30k people downloading it at the same time," Iwinski told PC Gamer.
"So let's take 20k as the average and let's take 6 weeks. The game is 14GB, so let's assume that on an average not-too-fast connection it will be 6 hours of download. 6 weeks is 56 days, which equals to 1344 hours; and with 6h of average download time to get the game it would give us 224 downloads, then let's multiply it by 20k simultaneous downloaders.
"The result is roughly 4.5 million illegal downloads. This is only an estimation, and I would say that's rather on the optimistic side of things; as of today we have sold over 1 million legal copies, so having only 4.5-5 illegal copies for each legal one would be not a bad ratio."


There you have it. They dropped the DRM, and the game was stolen 4-5x more than it was purchased. Some reward for giving people what they wanted. And quite a statement about the culture when that can be considered "optimistic" and "not a bad ratio."

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2012 7:22:28 PM PST
I never really cared about say having to download Origin or Steam to having to play a game but I see alot of people who won't do it for that reason.Should I care about having to do it or what could be the negative.Like I said I never cared but at the same time I don't know exactly what it is so should I care?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 9, 2012 10:09:47 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 10, 2012 12:02:55 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
"Do you drive your car without the Title?"
Of course not.
However, the equivalent of an Always-Online DRM (such as ORIGIN) would be to be permitted to drive it ONLY with...a car company representative in the back seat, monitoring where I go, how fast I drive and what I say. And if he happens not to like any of them, he claims to have the right to destroy the car I paid for!

"Do you own a home and shred the paperwork then get angry when asked to present it?"
Of course not.
However, the equivalent of an Always-Online DRM (such as ORIGIN) would be not to be allowed to hold the keys to my own house and having to prove ownership every bloody time I want to enter it!
(according to the EULA, EA also reserves the right to periodic body-cavity checks).

When I see someone slapping down the "piracy" card as an excuse for idiotic DRM schemes, I know they have run out arguments. Because one has nothing to do with the other.

Games have always been and always will be pirated. Cracked, cloned, ripped or whatever.
StarForce, SecuROM, TAGES, STEAM and now ORIGIN have never prevented a single person form illegally downloading a game. That is why pirates never complain about DRM - they never have to deal with them!
Now, here is the shocker: pirates will never pay for their games. Never. So you better stop focusing on them and start treating your paying customers better.

Sure, THE WITCHER 2 got pirated like any other game. This, however, had nothing to do with it being DRM-free.
In fact, the more draconian the DRM, the more luckily the game sporting it to get pirated.
Just look at the list of the most pirated games for 2011:
1. Crysis 2
2. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
3. Battlefield 3
4. FIFA 12
5. Portal 2
THE WITHCER II did not even make the list.

Care to name one, a single, game that avoided piracy because of its DRM scheme?
Care to Google "Kingdom of Amalur torrent" and tell us how this game is NOT pirated because of ORIGIN?

The difference is that because I wanted to show my appreciation to CD PROJEKT for showing me respect, I bought multiple copies of the game. For months, I was gifting it left and right. And from what I hear, so did many other gamers like me.

Always-Online DRM schemes, such as ORIGIN, have nothing to do with preventing piracy. They are bundled in to turn our PCs into proprietary consoles - controlled by the likes of EA.

And why would anyone like THAT?

Posted on Feb 10, 2012 8:06:24 AM PST
"No gamer would ever choose any kind of always-online-DRM to play Single-Player games.
Such as UBISOFT's POS."

I would chose to be online if it meant helping the game further down the line. Darkspore is one of my favorite games ever made and I had to be connected at all times even to play it alone, and I never once cared. In fact I hoped that EA WAS watching to see what people did in the game more than something else.

And I also CHOSE to be connected to EA while playing KoA

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 10, 2012 8:03:10 PM PST
Rockhardly says:
"No gamer would ever choose any kind of always-online-DRM to play Single-Player games.
Such as UBISOFT's POS."


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 10, 2012 11:41:52 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 12:16:33 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
If it were false, (just to avoid the customer backlash) game publishers would give us a choice to buy either the Always-Online-DRMed version OR a disk-check-only version.
But they never do, do they?

Because no matter how much they pretend to be deaf to our valid complaints, they know what is going on, they see their numbers in the red, gamers turning to other games or replaying older ones, sales suffering BECAUSE of their idiotic DRM schemes.
However, the big ones, the likes of EA and UBISOFT, decided to bite the bullet for now to push for their near future agenda of controlling our computers.

Posted on Feb 11, 2012 5:54:35 AM PST
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 6:08:02 AM PST
Rockhardly says:
"If it were false, (just to avoid the customer backlash) game publishers would give us a choice to buy either the Always-Online-DRMed version OR a disk-check-only version. But they never do, do they?"

That makes no sense. You said that no gamer would ever choose always-online-demi, and I claimed that was false because I, and wrote "false" because I, and quite a few gamers here and that I know IRL do choose that - and prefer it over a disk-check method.

Your retort has nothing to do with my claim - you're just blindly stepping back up on the soapbox to continue the same rant you been repeating on the VGF forums for months.

Not everyone agrees with your point of view - and that doesn't make them stupid. You'd likely win more people over to your side if you dropped about 95% of the hyperbole.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 11, 2012 6:57:48 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 11, 2012 10:41:44 AM PST
NeuroSplicer says:
I do not know what other fora they have you guys monitoring but I never post at VGF. Is someone over there using my handle?
I have to look into that.

Next time though, try to give your Profiles some activities before the launch-date of the game. Having no reviews or lists and no other posts besides commenting on negative reviews and discussion threads does no favors to your credibility.

Not everyone has to agree with my points. So, no, you do not have to feel stupid - and I, for one, never made such a claim.

As to hyperboles, please quote me on anything you deem inaccurate. Otherwise, this is a last resort empty accusation.

FACT: Every game gets pirated.
FACT: DRM of any kind have no effect whatsoever on piracy.
FACT: Always-Online DRM only affects paying customers. Badly.
FACT: DRM schemes are introduced for reasons OTHER than fighting piracy.
FACT: ORIGIN aims at gaining control of our computers and turning them into EA's consoles.
FACT: Brilliant game developers and even legendary game studios get creatively obliterated once absorbed into EA's infernal embrace.
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Participants:  17
Total posts:  55
Initial post:  Feb 4, 2012
Latest post:  Feb 24, 2012

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Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning - PC
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning - PC by Electronic Arts (Windows 7 / Vista / XP)
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