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They Say, I Say: The Moves That Matter in Academic Writing 2nd Edition

4.4 out of 5 stars 1,143 customer reviews
ISBN-13: 978-0393933611
ISBN-10: 039393361X
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Product Details

  • Series: They Say I Say:the Moves That Matter in Academic Writing
  • Paperback: 245 pages
  • Publisher: W. W. Norton & Company; 2 edition (December 22, 2009)
  • Language: English
  • ISBN-10: 039393361X
  • ISBN-13: 978-0393933611
  • Product Dimensions: 5.3 x 0.5 x 7.4 inches
  • Shipping Weight: 7.2 ounces
  • Average Customer Review: 4.4 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (1,143 customer reviews)
  • Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #3,024 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

Customer Reviews

Top Customer Reviews

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I am in a Ph.D. program at Cornell University, but having already completed an undergrad and a Master's degree, I thought my writing was pretty good. However, after using the tips from this book, my Ivy League professor told me my work had substantially improved. I absolutely recommend this book to anyone looking to improve their writing. I also recommend "Making Sense in the Life Sciences: A Student's Guide to Writing and Research" for anyone looking to help organize lots of information into a logical flow/argument.
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Format: Paperback
I teach composition/rhetoric at a two-year college and I have required the previous (second) edition of this book for a couple years.

I chose this text initially because, unlike a lot of composition texts, the writing voice in TS/IS is very personable, easy to follow, and unpretentious. It occasionally shows a nerdy sense of humor which, surprisingly, my students don't seem to mind.

The book addresses issues that I wish I had been taught as an undergrad, like "saying why it matters," or even the concept of "they say/I say" itself, which looks at how to take empty, boring writing, and put it in context so readers are interested in it. Instead of lecturing about the same tired old essay structure, the book approaches the task like a personal quest: make yourself clear, be interesting, and have integrity as a writer. Anything it omits or only touches on, like MLA style or research tips, can easily be supplemented.

The publisher's price on the second edition (without the readings, many of which can be found online anyway) remains an affordable $25. And I was pleased to see this new third edition also at $25 (on the Norton site, anyway). The price allows me to pair this required text with another inexpensive book on style to capture the more technical side of writing.

My only disappointment is that while TS/IS is FINALLY available as an e-book in the new third edition, it is limited in platform, and comes with this disclaimer: "Our eBooks are Flash based and will not work on the iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch, and some Android devices."

So... my students can buy the cheaper e-book for only $15, but they can't view them on the majority of personal devices, which chips away a little at the advantages of the e-book in the first place.

Overall, though, the quality of the advice, content, and style in this book are still better than most texts I've worked with, so I will stick with it for the new year.
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Format: Paperback
Even as a writer, writing teacher, and rhetorician, I could not see how many gaps I left in my writing until this book. So much of the writing process was just flung at me in public school that I was fortunate to absorb dribs and drabs. Graff, Birkenstein, and Durst dismantle writing into a system, based on the most recent rhetorical research, and lay the process out in short chapters, plain language, and a scheme of templates that students can use to kick-start their own writing.

The authors' thesis is that writing is an uncomplicated process which can be reduced to a handful of rhetorical components. If students see writing as a social act, joining a larger conversation already in process, they will produce engaging writing which both they and their teachers will enjoy. Since the book is laced with examples of effective and ineffective writing, there is no doubt as to which the authors aim for, making evaluation a simple, somewhat objective process.

This book seeks to be accessible to a mass audience. It's written in vernacular English, using examples from current culture and respected print sources. It is so straightforward that teachers can use it at multiple levels, from advanced middle school up through college composition. It's so explicit that it could even be used without a teacher, with only a writing group or college writing center to fill in the role of hands-on assistance with individual problems.

This "With Readings" edition contains the full text of Graff and Birkenstein's original short primer of the same title. The original is less than 150 pages and can be digested in small segments by teachers and students alike.
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I received this book too late to use it for my persuasive writing class. While I had moderate success with my other book, Everything's an Argument, I would certainly use this book if I had to do it all over again.

They Say/I Say is a short book with a simple premise -- it correctly states that no argument occurs in a vacuum, but must depend upon what others have to say about it. Moreover, the authors believe one of the principle difficulties which students have with persuasive writing is an inability to correctly utilize these necessary ingredients (introduce what others have to say on the subject, and then present their own voice on the matter). Though I am not a writing teacher, I have found this to be the case in my classes.

TSIS summarizes the important aspects of this conversation in persuasive writing and provides templates for students to summarize what others say, introduce their own points, and perform various other techniques. While one may think the use of such templates leads to formulaic writing, the authors suggest the opposite is the case. By understanding how to shape their ideas, students can learn to better express their orginal thoughts, thus making their writing more individual.

While I am inclined to agree, TSIS is not perfect. It certainly cannot be used as a thorough textbook on all persuasive writing, nor am I completely convinced that the exercises provided in the book are the most effective at using the templates in student writing. If teachers can get students to incorporate the ideas of TSIS into student's writing, however, they will accomplish much. Check it out for yourself.
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