A Conversation with Leesa Cross-Smith

When did you first have the idea for This Close to Okay, and why did you choose to make mental health one of its central themes?

Most of the time it’s difficult for me to say when I first had the ideas for my books, because I usually can’t remember, and I usually work over such a long period of time! But I want to say it was somewhere between 2015 and 2016 that I started thinking about these characters. I knew from that first flash that one of the characters was going to be considering suicide, with the other one attempting to stop them, so mental health was a central theme from the beginning. When considering characters and themes, I’m always looking for a way in…a connection…and in this case, there was no other consideration regarding my way in. I knew this was it from the moment it came to me. And since mental health is so important and so much about survival and I enjoy reading and writing about how people make it through life…all aspects of that…it made sense to me.

Music and art feature significantly in the novel; Tallie plays Wilco and Andrew Bird for Emmett in order to keep him from jumping off the bridge, and they later bond over their favorite visual artists. Did any specific songs or pieces of art inspire you while writing?

I’m always inspired by Vincent van Gogh. His letters, his paintings, his life, his struggles with his own mental health. He’s one of my favorite people. There’s a desperation that so many artists have…this drive and need to create, no matter their circumstances, no matter their health, no matter how many times they’re told no…that interests and inspires me. How people keep going, no matter what. I thought about that a lot while writing this book. How the characters stay afloat, even when things feel impossible.

I love The Impressionists and anything Art History related. “Human Thing” by The Be Good Tanyas is one song I listened to a lot. Also, “Finishing the Hat” from Sunday in the Park with George. And Sam Cooke. I love the Andrew Bird song and chose it almost randomly because his first name comes at the beginning of the alphabet. Tallie was trying to get to a song as quickly as possible in order to distract Emmett from jumping. And I chose the Wilco song “Jesus, Etc.” because it has Jesus in the title and I love Jesus. It’s a very soothing, comforting song for me. I found myself listening to it a lot after 9/11. It’s a perfect song.

Throughout the book, Tallie puts a big emphasis on how self-care rituals and creating a comfortable—or hygge—physical space can improve mental health. What are you some of your favorite rituals or objects that put you in a good headspace during stressful times?

I’m a big tea drinker, so having my teapot is definitely a favorite object and ritual for me. If it’s nice enough, I like having a window open so I can hear the birds. (I’m a birder!) And all of the furniture in our house is very soft and soothing. I have a pink velvet couch and velvet pillows, plants, twinkle lights, etc. I can’t control the world or anything that happens in it, but what I can do is make my house as cozy and comfortable as possible, so I do that as much as I can!

Do you have any rituals specific to writing? What are you like when you’re in the middle of a project?

I don’t have any other rituals specific to writing besides my teapot, really. I write at home and I rarely listen to music while I’m writing. And I never wait until I “feel” like writing in order to write. I write whether I “feel” like it or not. I just get to work. It’s how I get things done.

When I’m in the middle of a project, I’m probably a bit like Doc from the Back to the Future movies, honestly. Wild eyes, wild hair! To someone not in my intimate circle, I probably seem like a bit of a mess maybe? Hyper-focused on my book. There’s a certain level of obsessiveness I have to maintain in order to finish a project. I have a journal I carry with me everywhere just in case I think of something and I usually watch movies that inspire me. I go for long walks alone or sometimes with my husband. I need to be alone quite a bit in order to work.

Depression and suicidal ideation are very personal and sensitive subjects for a lot of people; how did you approach writing about them? Were there any tropes or common misconceptions about these topics that you tried to avoid?

One thing I did was avoid using the word “commit” when writing about suicide. I’d read a lot about how that wording can be hurtful, so I didn’t use it. I tried to be as careful as possible with my words. I also wanted to make sure I allowed room for the complexity of suicidal ideation. For some people, it can be a sudden, impulsive thing. For others, a lot of planning happens. For some people, those feelings can go away and never resurface again. For others, it’s a lifelong battle. And I would say the same for depression. It can take many different forms and what works for one person may not work for another. I try my best not to assume things and not to lump everything or everyone together because every circumstance is different, and people are very multilayered and complex.

I wanted to make sure that my characters were presented as fully formed people who are flawed and real and who change their minds and have conflicting feelings. Someone battling depression can definitely have lighter moments when they feel a lift…and someone who doesn’t battle depression can definitely have darker, heavier days. I wanted to capture the complicated, messy humanness of those thoughts and feelings.

At one point, Tallie jokingly says that “no one should be on Facebook.” Do you agree? What’s your relationship with social media?

I have a complicated relationship with social media! I love it for the jokes, but I hate all the negativity. As best as I can, I try to use it for the tool it is. And it can be a really great tool! I go to it; I don’t let it come to me. I don’t have notifications turned on or anything. And it’s not a huge part of my life, no. I don’t get or need validation from it. I’m not really into hanging out on there all day. I would never argue on there. I never have! I’m mostly quiet…I post about books…I post things that inspire me. I aggressively reject all the negativity and collective anxiety. And maybe that’s my age and that I was lucky enough to grow up without it? The most important thing re: how I feel about social media is that when I’m tired of it and don’t need to use it, I log off…I literally delete the apps from my phone. It’s so freeing!

Did you encounter any roadblocks while writing this novel? In general, how do you deal with creative setbacks?

There is almost always a point while I’m writing a book when I think…oh no what do I do now?! But I’m used to it! And there are always specific plot points or things I need to figure out how to make work and if they aren’t working…it’s hard for me to think about anything else until I figure them out. But I always figure them out. Somehow!

I really just push through when it comes to creative setbacks. I’m a workaholic, which is something I am trying to get better at, but I just keep at it because I’m quite stubborn about it. So while I may take a bit of time off, (and by that I mean a night or a day) I’ve found that the best approach for me is to keep working through it until I figure it out. It’s frustrating and exhausting, but I don’t know how else to do it.

This is a massive understatement, but 2020 was obviously a difficult year for everyone. How have you been taking care of your mental health during this stressful time? Did you ever find yourself thinking back to This Close to Okay and taking the advice Tallie (or rather, you) gave to Emmett?

I’ve definitely been digging in even more (if that’s possible for me!) to the cozy, comforting things I always depend on when it comes to my mental health. My faith in a sovereign God and His unfailing love, tea and soft pajamas, spending time with my little family, British mysteries, period pieces, living slowly, going for walks, art, making dinner.

I do find myself thinking about Tallie a lot! Her knitting and her cats and candles. Her house! And most importantly, her heart. I think often of 1 Peter 4:8…“Aboveall, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.”And I don’t mean that in a generic, hashtaggy way. I mean that in a real way. Love, kindness, forgiveness, gentleness, and softness in a super negative, anxious, toxic environment…I’m not saying those things are an instant magical fix for a hellscape, but I am saying a whole lot of good and beautiful things start there.