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Showing 1-14 of 14 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Nov 12, 2007, 11:35:31 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 30, 2009, 11:27:33 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2007, 8:38:16 AM PST
Lancet is no wild eyed rag. The death counts are based on tried and true methodologies.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 16, 2007, 1:22:01 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 30, 2009, 11:27:31 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2007, 3:47:06 PM PST
Jon Johnson says:
The Lancet claims theirs is the standard methodology used in poorer and conflict areas. I suppose it's what we have to work with until the Iraqis get together a census. Maybe it's not as accurate, but I'm sure it's much more accurate than counting death certificates in a war zone or trusting the Bush Administration's numbers.

Does a high number or a low number support or negate the validity of the invasion or any progress? Whose definition of progress? Does the difference between 75,000 dead or 650,000 dead make the invasion any more just? We're not even counting internally displaced persons (last I heard 2.5 million)--and you thought Katrina was bad? We're not even counting communities without electricity, water, safety and other infrastructure. Whatever the death count, it is the innocent who have paid the price of the war as they always do.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2007, 11:03:02 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Oct 13, 2008, 9:48:36 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 17, 2007, 6:38:40 PM PST
ignatov says:
Good point, TD. Quoth Kansas: "If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2007, 2:44:13 PM PST
You can also look up studies performed by the British Medical Journal that conclude the death toll is closer to one million Iraqis at this point.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 6, 2008, 11:32:29 AM PST

Well, looks like you're wrong! Nice try though!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 24, 2008, 1:41:16 PM PST
Jeff Hayes says:
EXACTLY... At one time I was a very active pool player... never got beyond mediocre, but thought I was getting pretty good, UNTIL I learned that the people who were REALLY GOOD at it would always say they could "shoot a little bit."

A wise person knows that both knowledge and wisdom are an ever-increasing bubble, like a balloon, and the more you know, the more you realize there is to know and the more you realize you DON'T know... "The Wise One" obviously has NO CLUE of this fact.

As for Ms. Klein's book, which I'm about 8 pages from finishing at present, all I can say is she's my newest hero (and the only one younger than me). She may be a socialist, but she's a DEMOCRATIC socialist, and regardless of her politics, she provides AMPLE EVIDENCE that both the American government, American and multi-national corporations, and "Chicago-School" economists have essentialy RAPED the world economy for the past 40 years to essentially make a very few rich people much richer, while the poor got poorer and many in the middle class joined the ranks of the poor -- and they're doing it RIGHT NOW right here in the "good ole U.S.A."!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2008, 6:33:40 PM PST
J. Hanley says:
What I can never understand is, if the problem is big corporations acting bad with the protection of government, how is giving government more power going to help? It seems to me you would want to limit the ability of the government to get in bed with these corporations, rather than promote it. I mean, is government suddenly going to be more responsible, more concerned about the working poor, and more interested in controlling the excesses of corporations just because you've given them more control over these things? Assuming that corporations aren't going to change their behavior, what is it that's going to make government change it's behavior?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 21, 2008, 7:10:44 PM PST
Jeff Hayes says:
Because, J. Hanley, the way things are currently set up -- especially the way the current administration has handled things -- the ONLY government "involvement" with big corporations is almost ALL towards helping them to maximize their profits -- quite often at the expense of both American workers and consumers, with only the "fatcats" and MAYBE their shareholders benefiting... And the Bush Administration -- wherever possible -- has taken this to a NEW EXTREME by "outsourcing" as much and many government services as it can to "the private sector," by doing things like spending WAY MORE DOLLARS in Iraq with no-bid corporate contracts with companies with which it's top members are chummy -- than it does on the actual MILITARY. We see reports of all the dollars spent in Iraq on the news, but we rarely or never see how much of that is actually going to Big Business, rather than the military -- and those big businesses are charging WAY MORE to do things the military used to do for itself than it used to cost the military (like serve meals to the soldiers)...

The same thing happened in New Orleans after Katrina... One example given by Ms. Klein in the book is a private company given EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to recover dead bodies in the greater New Orleans area in the aftermath of the storm at the rate of $12,500 per body! I don't know about YOU, but I think that's WAY MORE than the going rate for body recovery. There were VOLUNTEERS willing to help recover bodies FOR FREE (morticians, EMS workers in their off hours), but this company wouldn't let them because, of course, it viewed them as competition -- even though IT took more than A YEAR to get the job done and EVERY CENT that company took in was paid for by AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS!

What those of us who are FED UP with this sort of Federal Welfare for Corporations want, among other things, is NOT government just giving big corporations free reign and even hand-feeding them federal contracts for things the government, itself, would have once done, but the playing field re-leveled. I don't know enough about economics to say what all that should be, but I can certainly say that what the current administration is involved in AIN'T IT!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 2, 2008, 8:19:51 PM PST
Actually the US is about 12% African-American. Pay attention.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 26, 2008, 11:49:41 AM PDT
The study is an estimate and it relies on personal claims as much as it does on what can actually be sourced. That said there is a likelyhood that deaths are duplicated.

However, with whatever source you use, people should be warned that attributing all deaths in Iraq to the American military would be fallacious and wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 30, 2012, 9:07:58 AM PDT
So, there is no need to pay any attention to the civilian deaths in Iraq that ARE attributable to the American military? It's just like the health care argument that says the number of uninsured Americans is overstated. Does it really matter whether it's 20 million or 40 million? Hell, it's __ "MILLION." Seems to me THAT'S what's important.
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Participants:  12
Total posts:  14
Initial post:  Nov 12, 2007
Latest post:  Oct 30, 2012

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This discussion is about
Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein (Paperback - May 1, 2008)
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