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When does a person get a soul?

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Showing 51-73 of 73 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Feb 14, 2012, 11:36:53 PM PST
ABOTA says:
It's in the mitochondrial DNA. Thanks for asking.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 1:48:07 AM PST
Kevin Bold says:
Conception. That's when God creates the soul.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 7:13:37 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 17, 2012, 9:49:37 AM PST
ABOTA says:
Possibly. Do you have a reason for saying so?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 4:29:52 PM PST
What part of the chromosomes? No part. The chromosomes are donated unwittingly, by the people as they plant the seed in the egg. The division of cells, without DNA to direct the outcome would not even be human, but probably "just tissue" as, say, a tumor is. At least, as I understand it, cancers are rogue cells disobeying the body's DNA.

The union of the chromosomes becomes a NEW DNA, that is a new person, of combined characteristics; someone who is not either donor, but someone ELSE.

At Creation (or whatever theory floats your boat) a program was instilled in living things, so that when a seed is planted, a harvest of like being results, unless it is interfered with. Everything has DNA. The program works, automatically. The difference between humans and vegetables is that when our DNA donations come together, life and soul are summoned into the mix, so that they will combine to fashion a new being, with the power of free volition and speech. No one is born without a spirit and soul. They are things which animate the body.

No one dies with their spirit and soul still inside somewhere. Spirit and soul exit the body when it becomes uninhabitable. FYI, the Bible says these return to God.

How can one not believe in the soul? People know in their own heads that they are not their body. The body is a cloak, a vehicle to transport the soul (person) through life. Science has been carving bodies up for centuries and centuries and centuries. NO one has EVER found a spirit or soul in the meat. People have even had big holes cut into their bodies and heads, and no one has seen the soul crouching in a corner to keep it from falling out. The spirit and soul are not visible to any instrument on earth.

Anyone who has seen or touched a dead body knows that it is not their friend, or loved one, but just their "wrappings". That utter separation and loneliness you feel at seeing this, is YOUR spirit and soul, KNOWING that they are not IN there, any more. Meat/flesh is highly unintelligent. If we did not have a spirit & soul, what is left would not be able to know anything. What ever people want to call it, the essence of the person is an invisible creature which IS measurable, by taking note of the body in its stark absence.

SOMETHING interacts with you in a live human which is not even in the room, when the body dies. It makes sense that the only point at which such scintillating, unique, personality or humor or intelligence, such as each of us, COULD have entered a body IS upon the first cell's division, when the donated DNA is directed to combine and begin the Person. Don't believe the Bible or any other theories. Look inside your own skin, and try to remember when you EVER had no personality or impulse to ambulate.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 4:49:18 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 15, 2012, 4:50:00 PM PST
Lucifer says:
Craig says: >>You crack me up. <<
Thank you, Craig. I thank the good Lord for my wit even though He never laughs at my jokes. I can't tell whether He doesn't like my sense of humour, or just doesn't "get" it. But one does like to be appreciated. I have enjoyed your posts as well.

Elizabeth Baker writes >>A "soul" isn't someting you get--like measles or a new car; a soul is what you are. You are a soul; you have a body.<<
Elizabeth, Did you just make that up? How do you reconcile your statement with the Bible?: "When the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, the man became a living soul." (Gen. 2:7). Are you a closet Hindu?

M. Galishoff writes, >>Lucifer. Ever watch Seinfeld? Yada Yada Yada -- I know, I know, I knooooooooowwwww<<
You may not believe this, but I have never seen a single episode of that show. Did Seinfeld beat me to the punch, with that Hebrew-English witticism?

I am reminded of what your mother Eve said, the first time that "Adam knew Eve." Eve had eaten figs and pomegranates a-plenty, but nothing seemed to please her so well the forbidden fruit. She and Adam were off there in the bushes, but I could hear Eve's Hebrew, plainly, as she cried: "Oy...oy veh! ... oy, ken, ken, KEN!" ("oh! oh my goodness! oh, yes! yes! YES!"). Ever since that day, I cannot hear the phrase, "Ken doll," without snickering.


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 10:06:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 18, 2012, 1:58:17 PM PST
ABOTA writes "It's in the mitochondrial DNA. Thanks for asking."

The soul is in mDNA? I don't think so. Where is your evidence to support such a claim?

It is more like you make junk up as you go along.

Please provide some supporting evidence that a soul is located in mDNA.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 10:31:31 PM PST
ABOTA says:
"It is more like you make junk up as you go along."


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 11:36:40 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Feb 19, 2012, 2:54:12 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 17, 2012, 1:21:39 AM PST
Julie says:
..for i knew you in your mothers womb..the Holy Bible

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 17, 2012, 1:23:27 AM PST
G. Petersen says:
AT conception.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 17, 2012, 3:22:48 AM PST
Bohemian Man says:
After listening to the Blues Brothers.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2012, 7:30:52 AM PST
RKG says:
well according to mitt romney, when the to be father gets an erection.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2012, 7:22:57 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Here For The Music says:

[A person doesn't get a soul, a person is a soul.]

Yes I agree.

We have both a physical body and a spiritual body. The spiritual body is our soul.

Even though we are living in a physical world I think there's a part of us that always remains in the spirit world.

It is with the spiritual body that people experience heaven, hell, and whatever other realms there may be in the spirit world.

Former atheist Howard Storm discovered this when he had an NDE and went into the 'waiting room' of hell for a time. Howard found that he still had all of his senses like sight, smell, hearing, etc.. In fact his senses were much more acute in the spirit world.

Howard found out that the true explanation for the behavior of people like Jeffrey Dahmer will not be found in psychology. It will be found in the spirit world.

Dahmer was expressing his desire to get into hell which is most likely where he is now.

Jeff Marzano

My Descent Into Death and the Message of Love Which Brought Me Back

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2012, 7:27:20 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Michael Altarriba says:

[When the body dies, what happens to the "soul"? If a soul is what you are, then, presumably, it dies when the body dies ?]

Many people believe the human soul is eternal. It can never die.

It's an interesting concept to think that once God creates a soul it can't be easily destroyed.

Christ said God can destroy the soul in hell. However He didn't say how long this process might take. An eternity perhaps.

Howard Storm also said this. After some period of time a soul in hell can be completely annihilated like it never existed.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2012, 7:31:20 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Michael Altarriba says:

[What reason do you have to believe that this "spiritual body" exists, and survives the death of the physical body ?]

This is a basic belief of many religions including Christianity.

I suspect when people saw Jesus Christ after the resurrection they didn't immediately recognize Him because this was His spiritual body.

A person can be reincarnated as male or female, different races, etc., so the physical body is not an exact replica of the spiritual body.

If you don't believe that the soul exists before birth the other option is it is created at the time of conception or at some other time immediately before a person is born. I think that's the only other option.

The Catholic Church for example doesn't know the answer to this question so they don't speculate. They don't know if the soul exists before birth.

The Church doesn't believe in reincarnation either which is wrong.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 18, 2012, 7:35:17 PM PST

I believe you mean 'mitochlorians'.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012, 6:00:54 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 31, 2012, 6:23:31 AM PDT
"Nephesh" is soul. It means breather. God formed the body of Adam out of the dust or clay of the earth and then breathed into him life force energy - the spark of biological life - which then became supported by respiration. This life force energy is carried forward to offspring when two gametes form a zygote, the most basic unit of a human soul. The life force of the new human soul is supported by the parent until birth at which point it begins respiration in support of its own life force energy.

Genesis says that Adam became a living soul, not that he was given one. (2:7)

The word means two things and only two things in the entire Bible: 1) the entire organism, 2) the life that the entire organism possesses/enjoys.

Nephesh is often translated other words but if it is translated soul in your translation you will see that animals are souls and humans are souls and that souls aren't inherently immortal. In fact, there are no immortal human souls. The life pattern of a person has to be converted from a human to a spirit being in order to have immortality.

Ezekiel 18:4 explains that the soul that sins it will die. Death means non-existence, no doing or thinking or being anything. It is simply the opposite of life. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10. In order for a soul to be restored God has to remake the person/soul from his memory. That is called a resurrection.

Just as we see in the physical universe so it really is and so it really is in the spirit realm. A person is a soul (life form) and has a soul (the life that their soul enjoys). That soul is based on a body (whether a material body as we know it or a spirit body - we have little idea what that even means except that it is invisible to our senses). The body has location. Even God is a soul and has a location. He is not everywhere but can see and affect everything no matter where it may be.
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In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012, 7:47:08 AM PDT
ABOTA says:
Dan wrote:

"Genesis says that Adam became a living soul, not that he was given one. (2:7)

The word means two things and only two things in the entire Bible: 1) the entire organism, 2) the life that the entire organism possesses/enjoys."

My opinion: Now this is a compelling argument. After all, we speak of someone losing their life, their mind, or their integrity. We sure don't mean by that that we could put those three items in a box and squirrel them away someplace for safe-keeping.

Perhaps you could expand okn the "life-force" bit, because I notice you didn't support that with any references. Same with the bit about God's location.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012, 4:01:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 1, 2012, 4:08:01 AM PDT
[Perhaps you could expand okn the "life-force" bit, because I notice you didn't support that with any references.]

Life force is known throughout many cultures because it is a tangible property of all things. Especially when found in a living organism it has complex structure and circulation. The Chinese call it Qi and they've mapped out a system of vessels and "meridians" in which they flow. Science has discovered that these are actual pathways but for the most part are still not taught in anatomy/physiology of Western medicine. Indians call it prana and have a widely used chakra system which also can be experienced and explored as something tangible. These are like wheels of life force energy that are transformers which step down the life force energy into lower vibratory energies, especially nerve and chemical energy. Japanese call it Ki.

We are introduced to this animating force of life, first in the book of Genesis. Chapter 2:7 shows God blowing (this verb is a form of naphach) into the preliving body of soon to be Adam the breath of life (form of neshamah) into the man who then BECOMES a living nephesh (soul).

Apparently what happened is that God filled the inert body of Adam with life force energy through his lungs. Today cultures who are conscious of life force energy say that the lungs are the primary channel-converter of exterior life force energy into the frequencies that the living organism can utilize for animation. We get get exterior bioenergy from the subatomic vacuum, from the earth, moon, solar and cosmic sources and the life forces around us. If a person breathes shallow over time they usually have problems with their bones. This is because the bodymind uses the lungs to scan the lower frequencies of the bones during the deep part of the breath. It scans all through the body during each breath and locates abnormalities and then corrects them. Yogi say that if a person could have a perfect breath they would have perfect health. Although the Bible reveals that this is going overboard and that the problem is deeper, they do have a point. I have helped a lot of people health serious conditions simply by helping them develop a regular full breath and posture to support and cultivate it.

Anyhow, the Bible here describes what other cultures have woven all sorts of myth around, that singular moment that live was given to humanity. In this one instant, God birthed human life. You can imagine how hopeful he was for he knew that this one moment was the only time he would do it. His hopes lied in his new earthly son, Adam for the human race created in his image. From this one earthly son all human life was to come forth including the first woman, Eve. When God took that living rib from Adam God is not said to have breathed life into Eve. That human rib already had potent life force in it. From there it enlivened the body of the first woman. God needed to do nothing else from that point. They would use procreation to fulfill his word as later spoken to Adam "be fruitful and become many and fill the earth."

Wow. Waxing all romantic about that. I can just imagine God's feelings though. The love for his creation, the deep excitement experienced by God, by his master worker, Jesus and of all the angels. Talk about a family moment. Anyhow...

Later on, when God destroyed most human life during the Deluge we find the link mentioned between "ruach" and "nephesh". Ruach (spirit) is literally "wind". But it can mean anything that is 1) invisible but that 2) exerts a force on something visible. Hence, it is not something motionless and inert or potential alone. It is dynamic, in motion and usually causing something to happen. Nephesh again is soul 1) the whole creature, person or organism or 2) the life that the creature, person or organism enjoys/possesses.

Genesis 7:22 says that everything in which the breath (neshamah) of the force (ruach) of life was active in its nostrils that lived on dry ground, died." It is clear that "everything" are souls, animals and humans, living land organisms. So souls have a life force (spirit-ruach) which is empowered and sustained by it's breath (neshamah).

Just so that there isn't confusion ruach can be invisible people too. The Scriptures use it to refer to God, Jesus and the angels and even wicked angels. But it is also used to describe the shared mental inclination that holds a group of people together such as a well behaved and orderly congregation of God or a disorderly mob with evil intent. Or it can mean a single person's mental inclination, even God's (example Genesis 6:3). Or it can mean the life force sustaining a living being. Or it can be wind. In the case of God's personal force it has a special designation, holy spirit. God is holy to the superlative degree. His Son is the Holy One of God. All of God's angels are flawlessly obedient and submissive and thus they too are called the holy angels. Therefore, holy spirit in connection with God sending it or applying it or giving it and so forth is a picture of God transforming some of his unlimited potential power into a kinetic unstoppable irresistible force. God can do nothing unholy, everything that he does is clean and undefiled, therefore his spirit which he uses to enliven, create, destroy, teach, strengthen, restore and more is the called holy in Scripture.

Although Christendom and people in general (Hollywood is a big promoter of this distortion) believe that the Biblical terms from "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable they are two different things. Getting them mixed up has resulted in all sorts of confusion as well as the sneaky implantation of Babylonish/Greecian doctrine into both Jewish and Christian thought of an immortal soul/spirit that exists within our physical bodies. This in turn laid the red carpet for all sorts of God dishonoring doctrine about what happens when we die such as reincarnation, going to heaven or a place of waiting or even of everlasting torment.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012, 11:27:06 AM PDT

What about twins? At conception there is only in which then splits into two (three for triplets etc). Often times after the split the twin is reabsorbed. The conception idea doesn't work very well.

Also, we simply have no evidence upon which to make the assertion that we have a soul.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012, 5:15:31 PM PDT
[Perhaps you could expand okn the bit about God's location.]

The subatomic matrix of the universe or even subpotential force field from which all energy and matter comes is often thought to be divine or God by Eastern philosophy. This seems to fit what people think that the Bible says about God being in all things and in all places. Others equate this Matrix or another word from the West is the Unified Field, with God's holy spirit. Or they believe that life force is holy spirit as described in the Bible in both the Hebrew and Greek texts. However, as I already described in my last post, it is not like that at all. Those ideas come from Eastern philosophy and sciences, which although effective - more effective than most things that the West has in terms of understanding the body and psyche and psychic phenomena - they are equating the creation as the Creator. In other words, the Matrix and life force energy of our physical universe are creations that had not existed some time in the distant past. They aren't spiritual being or power either. They are a higher frequency of a physical element of this physical plane of existence.

My most cutting edge model that doesn't go against the Bible or science is that each of our cells is in direct connection with Field. It is totally apparent that no memory is stored in our nerve cells, only the connections. These connections are like frequencies that when made connect our consciousness to a certain memory in the Field. The connections are made by stimuli which is always flowing in from our environment (sensory information) and our consciousness itself can command a memory by recalling something like it which then triggers the whole connection and generates the memory.

In this way, the human nervous system is more like a transmitter-receiver or a client terminal to a server than a storage medium and thus is able to store and access an unlimited amount of sign data. Thus, just as the Bible says, we were truly made to live forever though being in what appears to be a finite physical form.

Our body with it's breath comprises the focus of our life-force and person or soul. Thus, if we die we are unconscious and can do and experience nothing at all. However, our memory and personality is still in the Matrix. The resurrection is a "standing up" again of our organism. When our organism is reenlivened by God then it will again be that terminal which comes online and is in constant streaming connection to all our personality and memory on the Matrix (Field). So we as human souls have location but we are also spread out into infinity by means of our unity to Field. This model is completely supported by the latest science and it is the ONLY one that I know of that is. Interesting that the Bible also fully supports it (in that it goes against no principle in the Bible).

That all said it appears that we are made in the image of God in this way too. We have the ability to effect the past, future and present with out thoughts alone. This is on a MUCH smaller scale. So our influence extends beyond our fleshly demarcation forever.

God too is said to be dwelling at a fixed location (1 Kings 8:43, 49; 2 Chronicles 6:33, 39; Psalms 33:13, 14) and yet can see everywhere and can effect anything in all of his domain instantly and irresistibly. God is said to be a soul. (Isaiah 42:1; Leviticus 26:11, 30; Psalm 24:4) God is also a spirit in that he is invisible to us humans and doesn't exist at all in this physical created universe. (John 4:24)

Where the Bible speaks about God moving, riding a chariot, having wings and traveling to a rescue, trampling down enemies on earth, residing in a tabernacle, temple or over the ark or in a house of Ebedmelech or in a city all of these are references to God's spirit causing things to happen. In other verses where it says that God was there it says in other places about the same instance that God's ANGEL was there. Exodus 3:4 vs. Exodus 3:2 and Acts 7:30.

Also, where angels are said to be doing God's will it also says that the holy spirit is there. Just as a human can be guided by God's spirit, empowered by it, made strong like Samson and so forth, a holy angel carrying out God's will is enveloped in and guided by God's invincible spirit though God is technically not there bodily since he resides in heaven his spirit is projected there in support of his servants to accomplish his will.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012, 5:46:03 PM PDT
"You get the advanced question because of your insightful answer!"

Narcissism started a thread again? What a shocker!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 8, 2012, 8:19:53 PM PDT
Pattie says:
You had a soul before you were even born with God. He created you and put you on this earth with your soul intact. You soul will be with him again in the second coming if you believe.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
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Initial post:  Feb 8, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 8, 2012

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