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Robby: A Question from a Conservative Jew to Christians

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Posted on Jan 9, 2012, 1:27:47 AM PST
Big Shmooz says:
Hanalah says: They really were not yet adam. But Gd, Who knows all things, knew that humans would be hunters and farmers, and named us according to both.

Me: Your source for this is?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 1:54:38 AM PST
JR Rawlins says:
KNYN,
I also think you are being very brave in your decision and I pray that God will greatly bless you and keep you. A difficult decision, I'm sure. But one in which you deserve great respect and honor.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 2:22:46 AM PST
Tinker says:
3. (10-12) The prior revelation of the salvation experienced by Christians.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven; things which angels desire to look into.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 2:59:36 AM PST
Theo says:
I see the connection now: Fox-Rupert Murdock-Apple(China)

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 4:50:38 AM PST
ajqueen says:
Cheri says:
3. (10-12) The prior revelation of the salvation experienced by Christians.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven; things which angels desire to look into.

AJQ: Amen! straight forward.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 5:25:40 AM PST
ajqueen says:
Cheri says:
I was reading tonight about the temptation Jesus went through and saw that He repeatedly told Satan that only the Lord God is to worshipped. This seems to me to say the same thing as in the OT.

AJQ: Yes only God is to be worshipped. The Apostles told men when they fell at their feet to get up, I am a man. Angels also in the NT told the Apostle to get up on their feet, worship God only. The Angel of the Lord is the express representative of God to Israel. Yes, many Christians believe Him to be Jesus. I do not believe the Angel of the Lord is Michael as he would not have allowed Joshua to worship before him. God Himself can take on bodify form and He did so. The fact that Moses and Joshua were told to take off there shoes there on Holy ground lets me know God was there. We see a few instances in the NT where Jesus was worshipped. He did not forbid this. Though clothed in bodify flesh, He knew who He was and could not deny it.

The simple truth of the matter is many who reject Christ fail to recognize the righteousness and mark of God that is clearly upon Him. Jesus said, if you didnt believe Him, at least believe in the works for the very works sake. He knew that all He did was Righteousness. If you truly believe In Righteousness, Love, and absolute Truth, then you will come to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything else falls to fables and deceit, the Truth is in Jesus.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 5:38:28 AM PST
ajqueen says:
Big Shmooz says:
SIA says: The Spirit continues ... "He put no trust in his servants." What servants? His angels, or those who are righteous? Well, we already know Job is being tested for righteousness. So it must be talking about angels here. This is a difficult passage.

Me: Rashi explains that it refers to the righteous.
Rashi: Behold... His servants: the righteous. He does not trust that they will not sin against Him, and He takes them out of the world before their time.

AJQ: Rashi is wrong. God believes in His servants. This is what he says of Abraham. Genesis 18:19 "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him."

Here is another Servant God believes and places trust in. Isaiah 42:1-8, Isa 49:5-8...I really like this guy as in him rests the salvation of mankind. stand still and see the salvation of God.

Yes God knows mankind will sin, but God also knows of the righteousness revealed through faith that those who put their trusts in the Lord shall not be ashamed. He knew Israel would sin and allowed them to sin, yet He has indeed made a way of escape for Israel. God is not fearful of sin, He knows He can defeat it, and has done so through the work on the cross. Now its a matter of patiently waiting just as in the days of Noah, for all those who would be saved to place their faith in the Lord who Redeems from sin.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 5:41:58 AM PST
JR Rawlins says:
Amen!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 5:58:00 AM PST
ajqueen says:
J. Rawlins says:
Amen!

AJQ: Good Morning JR, these threads really go quick. I think I gotta check in once in a while but it can get addictive quick. I love getting the insights as others view things, but rehashing the same things we've discussed repeatedly seems to be wasteful. I do see it as important to put forward the Truth when folks take scripture out of context.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 6:12:49 AM PST
I use that one, too. And the SEIF edition siddurs. My Hebrew's not so good. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 6:23:19 AM PST
dischism says:
< Me: It's about sharing the same root. In English there is no such thing as root.>

Sorry, BS, but that's incorrect. For example, the Latin verb ducere, to lead, is a root of many English words, the meaning changed by the addition of prefixes and suffixes eg conduct, adduce, reduction, induct, deducing etc. There are too many examples to enumerate. (Two of the words in in the preceding sentence are words whose meaning is changed by amending their roots).

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 6:37:40 AM PST
Ample and numeral?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 6:53:36 AM PST
dischism says:
I was thinking of exemplify, exemplar from exemplum, but indeed, amplus (enough) and numeral, number, innumerate from numerus. :)

Posted on Jan 9, 2012, 9:16:52 AM PST
ajqueen says:
SIA says:
Are you saying that the Angel of the Lord was Jesus?

So now he's an angel too?

AJQ: why do you sound as if you mock this?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:18:33 AM PST
JR Rawlins says:
Yeah, me too, AJ.
But I'm seriously considering another hiatus from all this. Got plenty of other things that are just as important that I need to do; like some more serious study. But I'll let y'all know before I go.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:29:57 AM PST
JR Rawlins says:
AJ,
When one considers that the word angel means messenger, it isn't such a great stretch. I really wish the translators had just used ther word messenger instead.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:34:30 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 9, 2012, 9:58:08 AM PST
ajqueen says:
J. Rawlins says:
AJ,
When one considers that the word angel means messenger, it isn't such a great stretch. I really wish the translators had just used ther word messenger instead.

AJQ: Yeah, and God promised in Malachi He would send the Messenger of the covenant, and that the Lord will come to his temple. I gotta study some more on this angel of the Lord, but I have reasoned on Him in the past and He is the direct representative of God, and He is the only Angel I see as accepting worship. I do believe that Jesus was among the sons of God that shouted for joy during God's creation. I believe Him to be the firstborn among all things. He is the very righteousness God used to create everything He created. And of course the angel of the Lord does go before them in battle. It makes sense He would lead the way to conquer death.

The angel of the Lord refers to God in the first person according to Wiki...I know I've seen this.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:39:52 AM PST
ajqueen says:
J. Rawlins says:
Yeah, me too, AJ.
But I'm seriously considering another hiatus from all this. Got plenty of other things that are just as important that I need to do; like some more serious study. But I'll let y'all know before I go.

AJQ: Please do, and I'll give you other ways to reach me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:57:04 AM PST
Nathan says:
The problem with Facebook is that conversations tend to be harder to read because of the small print; also, it attracts a lot of people with wrong intentions (though that can happen anywhere.) But we can see how it turns out :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 9:59:03 AM PST
Nathan says:
That's true...

Posted on Jan 9, 2012, 10:01:54 AM PST
I don't know why you people want to believe that the angel was Hashem, Himself. I'm not so well educated, but I have always assumed that the angel was Gavriel. Joshua asked what message the angel had from Hashem. And I sort of understood taking of the shoe to mean that Hashem was delivering the land, to His People. Physical contact of His Chosen people walking on the Chosen Land.

I haven't read much in the way of commentaries about this. I just don't see any reason to believe that the angel was Hashem, Himself.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 10:02:40 AM PST
Nathan says:
!

I object. There are roots to every word in every language, in the broad sense; but there are most certainly etymological roots to English words, and "man" for "woman" is a perfectly good example. Or did you mean something different?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 10:02:58 AM PST
Yeah, I don't much care for social networking sites.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 10:07:34 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 9, 2012, 10:12:11 AM PST
ajqueen says:
KNYN says:
I don't know why you people want to believe that the angel was Hashem, Himself. I'm not so well educated, but I have always assumed that the angel was Gavriel. Joshua asked what message the angel had from Hashem. And I sort of understood taking of the shoe to mean that Hashem was delivering the land, to His People. Physical contact of His Chosen people walking on the Chosen Land.

I haven't read much in the way of commentaries about this. I just don't see any reason to believe that the angel was Hashem, Himself.

AJQ: Can you explain why Joshua worshipped before the Angel of the Lord? Also note that Hagar refers to the Angel of the Lord as God when she ran from Sarai.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 9, 2012, 10:07:49 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 9, 2012, 10:18:33 AM PST
Nathan says:
Hi, KNYN--the injunction to worship GOD alone is the reason. Angels in other cases refused worship, as in Daniel, because they said only HaShem should be worshipped.

So when this Angel accepts the worship, as He also does with Gideon, it raises some questions about the identity of the Angel.

Edit: I'm sorry, I was wrong. In Daniel's case the Angel accepts the worship, and only later tells him to stand on his feet--and from the passage it is evident that this Angel is neither Gabriel nor Michael.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
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Initial post:  Jan 8, 2012
Latest post:  Feb 27, 2012

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