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Christianity is founded on four absurdities

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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:28:11 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 5:41:46 PM PDT
Mickey says:
Yes, I do have a conscience and I do regret my offenses. No, I am not convinced Jesus was God, was born of a virgin and was resurrected.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:27:10 PM PDT
brunumb says:
Countless mortal human beings have willingly endured far more pain, suffering and death than your alleged Jesus, and all without any hope of sitting next to themselves in heaven afterwards. It's all just part of the primitive practice of blood sacrifices being used to appease angry gods. This one is just silly because it involves sacrificing God to himself.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:24:00 PM PDT
James I says:
Who said you would?
You cannot sin without knowledge of sin. You cannot offend God without knowing you offend God, and in his mercy, he gives you the opportunity to repent if you do purposefully offend him.

If you had no knowledge of God what-so-ever, you simply could not sin at all. I am sure though, you have some sort of moral code, you know when you have done something wrong, the question that remains is, are you sorry for having done so? If yes, no problem, if no, well then, you dig your own grave. IE: you steal from someone, you know it is wrong. If you regret having done it, and are sincerely sorry for having hurt someone, you'll be OK. If you are some kind of jerk who thinks stealing is OK, due to some inherit entitlement or whatever, you are doomed. It really is that simple.

PAX

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:20:57 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:17:09 PM PDT
Mickey says:
Not if I'm going to spend eternity in hell as punishment for being unsure. I don't see how uncertainty is a sin, and if it is, why do I have to go to hell?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:07:41 PM PDT
James I says:
The sacrifice was enduring torture and death as a human, something he never had to do but did anyway.
He was punished not for his inequity but ours, taking on the sin of the world and killing it in a sense.
He had no need to endure all that, he could have avoided it but he did not. His suffereng was his sacrifice. Humiliated, beaten, scorged, criucified and suffered death. Is that not enough for you?

PAX

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 3:03:32 PM PDT
A customer says:
"Peter walked with Jesus and was crucified upside-down."

I person can believe a thing is true without it actually being so. That a person was martyred for a belief is evidence that the person believed it was true and if true, worth dying for. It is not evidence that they were right.

Otherwise, all those who were persecuted and killed for their religion, would be equally right as Peter. Are muslims who die for their faith possess the truth? Do Hindu? Or Buddhists?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:54:55 PM PDT
Mickey says:
Assuming you are correct, Jesus died within 24 hours and came back to life after three days, He didn't die for eternity and he certainly didn't roast in the lake of fire for eternity.

The question stands: Where is the sacrifice?

Posted on Sep 30, 2010, 2:45:14 PM PDT
Absurdity #4: That Jesus' death qualified as a sacrifice. Real sacrifice entails real loss. Jesus didn't really die, nor did he suffer any permanent loss. So where is the sacrifice?.....
Get someone to rip open your back with a cat-o-nine tails and then nail you to two pieces of wood if you don't consider it a sacrifice. Jesus was God-made-man and suffered for your salvation. Peter walked with Jesus and was crucified upside-down. An interesting way to die for a lie; or did he know the truth?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:27:53 PM PDT
A customer says:
"IF you refuse to seek God..."

What an interesting assumption. I was a Christian for almost twenty years. I sought God for decades. I have still seen nothing that would indicate to me that he exists or that Christianity is anything other than another man made religion. Now what?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:27:07 PM PDT
IFeelFree says:
TDS: Yes, a real sacrifice but not a 'cosmic event'. Well then that all hinges on your private definition of cosmic event [ you did put it in quotes, to protect yourself no doubt ]

IFF: What I meant should be clear from my answer to (1), "...it is simply a metaphysical error to believe that anyone, even a Jesus, can take on all of the sins for all humanity for all time. This is a myth created by the early Christians." The crucifixion of Christ was not the *cosmic event* of atonement for all humanity's sins, as most Christians claim.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:26:56 PM PDT
Mickey says:
Then if I don't have faith, is it a waste of time to look for evidence?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:20:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 2:21:48 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:16:40 PM PDT
A customer says:
"Those without faith will never know the evidence."

Exactly. And since theists from many religions argue the same, what then? Which deity do I choose to have faith in so I can "know the evidence."

Furthermore, what you are saying is that if I choose to believe something is true, then I will see evidence that it is true. Yes, I am well aware of how conformation bias works.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:12:59 PM PDT
Iatric says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:05:20 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 2:07:21 PM PDT
A customer says:
"1) If humans can't sense it, it doesn't exist (ie, "Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.")."

The problem for many of us is not an assertion that the absence of evidence for your god is evidence that your god does not exist, but rather how are we to know that your god exists, if there is no evidence.

You claim your god exists. Theists all over the world from thousands of religions through out time have also claimed that thier god(s) exist. How am I to know which one of you is correct without evidence? The fact that many religions use similar justifications for their faith in their god(s) only exacerbates the problem.

see also 50 Reasons People Give for Believing in a God

If you can picture a vast market place, where every religion and every denomination has a stall, and you are all trying to "sell" your particular religion, all of you talking about faith and a priori knowledge, all of you claiming to have the Truth, claiming that if we don't accept your faith, we will be punished in the next life somehow. Many of the stalls fighting and shouting with each other, some who ostensibly worship the same god arguing vehemently over details. Violence and riots breaking out. Apostates from one stall or another ostracized or harmed.

But *none* of you with tangible evidence to back your claims.

If you can picture that, you might understand why an atheist just keeps walking.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 2:00:33 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 1:52:38 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 2:09:25 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 12:59:56 PM PDT
AlChemE says:
See if this makes sense to you, zlh67. I know you may not believe these things, but I'm not arguing that, just whether or not your wise man's explanation of the central tenet of Christianity might just be biased.

What I am assuming, that you may or may not agree with, is:
1. God is real.
2. We are more than just physical, we also have a soul or spirit.
3. Our spirit continues or can continue after the death of our physical bodies.

So, what if those are true, and the only way for our spiritual existence to be "pleasant" after this bodily life is if it is in relationship with God. Then the central tenet is more like: only those who reject relationship with God will be excluded from it (which will cause them eternal torment). There are many variations on the theological views of the details, but your very wise man was apparently only able to take a glass-half-empty view of Christianity.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 12:53:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 12:53:45 PM PDT
IFeelFree says:
Celsus,

(1) Try to get your theology straight. It is not that an innocent party was (unfairly) punished for the sins of another. It was that the innocent party voluntarily took on the suffering of others, out of love, just as a parent might willingly take on a punishment for a child, if possible. There is a grain of truth in this. It is likely Christ took on some of the sins of some of his disciples and closest followers, in order that they might evolve spiritually. However, it is simply a metaphysical error to believe that anyone, even a Jesus, can take on all of the sins for all humanity for all time. This is a myth created by the early Christians.

(2) Correct. However, since we are all one with God, and life is ultimately an act of self-sacrifice to God, life itself is a sacrifice of God to Himself.

(3). Correct. Holding certain beliefs about Jesus doesn't save you from anything.

(4). Jesus suffered. That was a real sacrifice, although not quite the *cosmic event* that Christians would have us believe.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 12:50:03 PM PDT
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Posted on Sep 30, 2010, 12:43:46 PM PDT
Dugan Nash says:
I've never posted here as I'm not a Christian and in general don't enjoy debating my beliefs with those of others, but I gotta go along with a very wise man who once pointed out that the central tenet of Christianity seems to be:

Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love.

I'm still trying to figure that one out, and once I do I just may go to church.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 12:36:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010, 12:36:55 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 11:22:03 AM PDT
Iatric says:
So you think, unfortunately...

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010, 11:06:58 AM PDT
GoneToTexas says:
I've already had my judgment. Donner has certified that I can quaff horns of mead with the best of them.

:-)
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
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Initial post:  Sep 29, 2010
Latest post:  May 25, 2012

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