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Marriage is a human institution, it is not the sole purview of your own religion.


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In reply to an earlier post on May 14, 2012, 10:44:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 14, 2012, 11:03:24 PM PDT
Mr. Krinkle says:
GJS: I'm not an expert on marriage, but everyone else sure seems to be; my point is not on marriage. My point is, it's important for a bible believing person, to not compromise the truth about homosexuality being a practice and life style that God disapproves of. That said though, here's the kicker: The majority of children and adults who walk this planet are not attracted to the same sex, to the degree where they not only find it wrong but just as repulsive as any God believing person would.

K: According to many, God does not disapprove of it. There are God believing people who are homosexuals and God believing people who are not homosexuals who don't find it repulsive at all. As for me, I don't find homosexuality repulsive, or homosexuals repulsive. I am personally repulsed, or at least very turned off, by the idea of having a sexual relationship with another man. But then, I am heterosexual and not homosexual, so that is no surprise. The thing is, for homosexuals, they are just as turned off or repulsed by the idea of having sexual relationships with members of the opposite sex as you and I are by the idea of having sex with members of our own sex. Understanding this may go a long way to realizing that though they are a minority in the population, they really are a lot like you, and me, only their sexual orientation is different.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 10:46:53 PM PDT
I find religious fundamentalism to be repulsive, especially when it is used as an excuse for bigotry.

In reply to an earlier post on May 14, 2012, 10:53:31 PM PDT
Mr. Krinkle says:
G. J. Stein: So, your battle is against the larger majority of human intuition, not Christians. Win or lose the right to marry, the stigma will remain as a matter of inbred perception, even from the mouths of babes, (until they attend Kindergarten and are "warned" of what a crime it is to tell the truth).

K: I believe this manifests itself in quite a few ways, and always has in human history. It is a fear, a distrust of what is different, of what is "other." They are not like us, we should not trust them. I don't understand them, it is best to not trust them. Same thing really. This "inbred perception" is possibly a group survival mechanism that has been at work for quite some time in our species. We (the majority) are normal. We (the group) are normal. Those who are different are repulsive, or scary, or dangerous, etc. The outgroup is not to be trusted, whether they be dirty commies, Godless liberals, that tribe from the other side of the river, a strange animal, a deformed human, a strange food, a custom, or a gay.

The thing is, we know that such feelings towards gays is not "universal". We know that such feelings towards gays has not been universal in history as there have been cultures that have been rather accepting of it, in different ways, in different degrees, and in different forms. What constitutes the "outgroup" or what is different or not understood and thus shunned can change. We can learn that this food, or this custom, or that tribe across the river does not need to be feared, or that they are not "repulsive" even if it does not appeal to me personally.

In reply to an earlier post on May 14, 2012, 11:03:34 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
One day eventually. Not anytime soon.

It's much easier to hate your neighbor, than love your children.

In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 12:13:14 AM PDT
dischism says:
Great post, Mr K.

In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 12:18:57 AM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
Regretfully it'll go over there heads.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 4:48:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 15, 2012, 7:18:33 PM PDT
marriage as an instituion sanctioned by a church was in trouble long before we understood that humans born with different orientations had human rights.

when women got the legal right over their share of matrimonial property more marriages were saved than all the religions in the world could.

In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 3:25:56 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
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In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 3:29:56 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
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In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 3:30:59 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
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Posted on May 15, 2012, 3:34:51 PM PDT
G. J. Stein says:
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In reply to an earlier post on May 15, 2012, 5:14:47 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
God created mankind (Adam) and the Holy spirit (Eve), 1st Genesis.

In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012, 9:11:23 PM PDT
Stein,
Marriage between one man and one woman as the building block of society has been a human tradition for hundreds of thousands of years, a well proven socially structured system that has been the glue of civilization itself. Modern free nations have a reputation for compassion and tolerance for all mankind, yet it is necessary define the structure of society's building blocks precisely to preserve civilization.

Marriage mandates legal accountability and responsibility for siring children as well as for ones mate. We are not hatched out of a hive where "It takes a village" to pay for the food, clothing, shelter and education of children. This legal and civil responsibility falls upon the mother and father that sired the child. And right now, where half the children today are born out of wedlock, virtually millions of little bastards on the dole of the State, our nation if falling into moral and economic collapse. Suddenly the Democrats want to dole out foster care to anyone and everyone despite the lack of a natural structured family unit.

Somehow legalizing homosexual, incest, or polygamous marriages to replace the broken family unit is a foolish remedy to the moral crisis at hand.
It has been speculated that England lead the Industrial Revolution only after it passed laws mandating all men who sired bastard children should marry the mother or go to prison. Society became more stable and wealthier because of it. This might be a better solution today than overturning 100,000 years of traditional marriage ushering in some kind of new social experiment.

Children need both male and female role models to identify with as well as security from the love of real parents. Of course, we do have need for the state to intervene in cases of dysfunctional families as a safetynet. Engagement in sex, be it homosexuality or heterosexuality, is a mature adult informed decision, not the endeavours of childhood.

In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012, 9:28:55 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>We are not hatched out of a hive where "It takes a village" to pay for the food,
>clothing, shelter and education of children.

Nope, now it's everyone for themself. First come, first serve.

> the moral crisis at hand.

The only major moral crisis is greed.

In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012, 11:17:26 PM PDT
dischism says:
Rachel

<It has been speculated that England lead the Industrial Revolution only after it passed laws mandating all men who sired bastard children should marry the mother or go to prison. Society became more stable and wealthier because of it. This might be a better solution today than overturning 100,000 years of traditional marriage ushering in some kind of new social experiment.>

By whom has this been speculated? Care to provide a reference?

You know, I thought the the Industrial Revolution was due to invention of new machines like the steam engine, the spinning jenny, Jethro Tull's seed drill, mechanisation of the textile industry, improvements in communications such as road building, railways and canals, innovation in the iron industry, urbanisation etc. Silly me.

So you're advocating marriage or prison for pregnancy? Good grief!

In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012, 11:30:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 16, 2012, 11:31:50 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
Rachel Verdon wrote: "Marriage between one man and one woman as the building block of society has been a human tradition for hundreds of thousands of years, a well proven socially structured system that has been the glue.....etc etc"
~~~~

What does this have to do with same sex marriage?

I ask because when ssm is legal ALL across the U.S., it won't be _replacing_ one-man-one-woman marriage, that will CONTINUE to exist.

If it's not replacing hetero marriage and if hetero marriage will continue to exist, then what 'threat' does ssm pose?

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 12:17:54 AM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>So you're advocating marriage or prison for pregnancy? Good grief!

So that's why all those people are in jail.....

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 7:21:23 PM PDT
Borich,
You write that the moral crisis at hand: "The only major moral crisis is greed."

What would you call the sexual revolution of the 1960s? Instant self gratification on demand - let the "village" pay for the raising of bastard children. That's greed, is it not?

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 7:23:50 PM PDT
dischism,
A gal named Lisareads posted material on the Industrial Revolution in England over a year or so ago when debating with RightThinking. I'll look for it.

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 7:29:03 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 17, 2012, 7:45:58 PM PDT
A customer says:
"Marriage between one man and one woman as the building block of society has been a human tradition for hundreds of thousands of years, a well proven socially structured system that has been the glue of civilization itself."

Yeah, not so much. The real history and vast, vast diversity of "marriage" and how it was and is practiced would likely surprise you. (Sex at Dawn) You don't have to read the book, I'll save you the trouble: Its full of lies and science-y gobbledy gook that only seeks to push the liberal gay agenda and hasten the decadent moral decay of society. And its awesome.

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 8:20:37 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 17, 2012, 8:28:43 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 8:23:45 PM PDT
Borich,
I am not advocating placing the deadbeat dads in prison. I am advocating rebuilding our economy so that a husband can support his wife and kids on his single paycheck. You know, most divorces are over money, don't you?

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 10:32:11 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
Today we just shipped our economy to Burma.....

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 10:43:17 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 18, 2012, 12:10:25 AM PDT
Ryan Willis - "it was never the original intention"

And you know that how, exactly? Do you have one of God's initial drafts? Did He sit down and chat with you about this thought process?

In reply to an earlier post on May 17, 2012, 11:18:49 PM PDT
AxeGrrl says:
I asked: "What does this [traditional marriage being the building block of society] have to do with same sex marriage?

Rachel Verdon replied: "Everything. There are so many single parent homes, with half our children......etc etc"
~~~~

Rachel, you highlighted _part_ of my post/question......and then proceeded to NOT answer it at all.

So, i'll try again.....

When same sex marriage is legal all across the US, heterosexal marriage will _still exist_. Same sex marriage won't 'replace' it or do ANYTHING to it.

And if ssm doesn't have _any effect_ on heterosexual marriage, what danger/threat would legalizing same sex marriage have?

Can you answer that specific question?
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
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Total posts:  600
Initial post:  May 11, 2012
Latest post:  May 31, 2012

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