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Showing 226-246 of 246 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2010 10:04:34 AM PST
you are a very thoughtful and truely good person.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2010 10:08:07 AM PST
i am a chrisian too and you are right, God didn't pick a chosen few, he loves everybody, and so should we.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 27, 2010 9:42:41 PM PST
Isn't it time we all realized that there are many more religions than Christianity and many other "holy" books. Hasn't anyone watched the History channel or the National Geographic channel? If so it will not take you long to realize how much fakery there is in the Bible. There's many more books that were left out than put in. Who determined what was deleted. None other than Constantine who worshipped the sun God. This is not chapter and verse but historical fact. I'm not putting down any religion. I'm only emphasizing that their are many beliefs in the world containing just as much Spirituality as Christianity.

Posted on Dec 28, 2010 2:47:12 AM PST
The Original Florida Melted Snowman snowglobe

Cute winter gift, non-sectarian, no religious theme, under $10...

Posted on Dec 28, 2010 7:14:08 AM PST
Mark Hoffart says:
Athiesm is a religion...... get over it.

Posted on Dec 28, 2010 8:47:27 AM PST
TruJus Amway says:
Atheism is a *denial* of religion... frame it another way, and you are just serving your own argument... some of us just don't believe... get over it...

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2010 9:24:50 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2010 10:08:42 PM PST
K. Oleff says:
Christopher R. Rische says:
K. Oleff, I made it about half way through the list. They almost all sound alike,

Being that the first half almost all sounded the same, that I didn't feel the need to look any further...

BTW, not a single vocalist there with Jackie's ability.


Sure, just continue living in your world of confusion and denial over life and music. Just because all (or most) of those artists speak about God in their lyrics doesn't make them all "sound the same", ya see?

To simplify it more for you, some of them are more in the range of metal or hard rock while others could be labeled as folk singer songwriters. Those, just to further inform you, are 2 very different genres or "sounds" by the way. At the same time, there's also Chicano/Spanish rock type musicians which are also of a different "sound" from the R&B, Country, Pop, Inspirational, Soft Rock, Gospel and other Christian groups listed before.

Yes, God is one of the same undeniable focuses of and in these artists' songs, yet many Christian bands CAN AND WILL be found from one uniquely different "sound" to another. So what if some of the lyrics happen to have similar words or phrases close to other Christian bands! I'm a musician and what I find most interesting about the massive collection of music that I listen (and play along) to is just that...
...the music!

Many lyrics are similar in every type of genre available, but the truly creative expression found in any song is what each musician adds to the "feel" of the song, ya hear? As a professional musician that plays several different instruments, I absolutely gotta tell you that it's an incredible experience taking one instrument with the addition of others to progressively "build" the song as a whole , "feeling" the impact of its successful finality in the end. I feel like somewhat of an architect afterwards and it's nearly like climbing that mountain that nobody ever attempted (or was able) to conquer and it's all my own, received like a trophy, ya know?

I take those kinds of "accomplishments" very seriously and with pride whether it's my own musical creation or another band's, Christian or not. Getting back to that similarity of many Christian artists (their lyrics about God), I find a great joy, strength and victory in much of their lyrics, quite frankly. Surely I'm much into the music created from those instruments (being a skilled Drummer and Guitarist most of all), but why shouldn't I as a believer be delighted and/or inspired by the driving lyrics from other believing musicians, right? The music's great, but the thought prevoking inspirational lyrics found in many Christian artists' songs are also something that I've jammed to many times both as a Drummer and a Guitarist.

That little girl isn't gonna cut it for me any time soon either! She can "say" all that she wants, but she's been nowhere near as inspiring as most true Christian artists (like those above) have been for me. For I've "conquered" many mountains WAY too high for her..."skills"!

Praise Jesus both today and forever! For it is right to give thanks and praise to Him at all times! Amen!

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2010 10:02:36 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2010 10:11:10 PM PST
K. Oleff says:
Fred Anderson says:
Isn't it time we all realized that there are many more religions than Christianity and many other "holy" books. Hasn't anyone watched the History channel or the National Geographic channel?

I'm not putting down any religion. I'm only emphasizing that their are many beliefs in the world containing just as much Spirituality as Christianity.


Yeah, of course there are other religions and other ways besides Christianity, but just because there's so many "different" things, it doesn't always mean that the "different" way is the better way to go, ya know?

At the same time you also ask if we've watched any History channels so that we may know about these other options, right? Well, as a matter of fact, I do see/view these channels relatively often. Just today, I was watching those types of channels and I did end up viewing a few of those other options such as...

KU KLUX KLAN - Yeah, this was a pretty entertaining, yet dramatic topic found on many "History" type channels. Because this type of hate and indifference is found on a "History" channel, are you trying to say that the Ku Klux Klan is a better choice than believing in God and being a loving, giving, strong Christian individual? I think not!

CULTS - While I didn't watch all that much of this "History" program, I heard many of those on the channel describing many different Cults as groups, sometimes forming as a sort of "religion" or bond of weak people of hate. Yeah, they're not so "spiritually" worthwhile then, huh? Cults of all kinds (including the group of racist people mentioned above) are usually started (and then built) upon a group of "loners" against other "powers", many times focused often on hate and destruction rather than bringing people together in the name of love like Christianity (or even more importantly, Jesus Christ) always does, ya see? I just don't like that unwarranted hate and destruction (especially that which is taking Christ in the wrong way) no matter what wicked Cult you might describe. It's just not that interesting trying to watch all of these "History" programs about the wicked, hateful human choices when I can (and do) get a whole lot more joy from reading and sharing the Bible instead.

For God is love and that's truly all that anybody will ever need. Praise Jesus! Amen!

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 3:01:55 PM PST
K. Oleff says:
Praise Jesus in this 2011 "season" and for all eternity! Amen!

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 3:39:51 PM PST
TruJus Amway says:
and may Santa live on in the hearts of everyone... forever... amen...

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 2, 2011 3:47:48 PM PST

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 6:48:35 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 2, 2011 7:03:12 PM PST
And may Donkey in Shrek make an appearance again soon? shrugs........

Oh, yes K. Oleff, your not doing Christianity a lot of good? The KKK and even Nazi Germany would swear that they are Christians. In fact you can trace through History all that has been done in the name of Christianity.

So what I am only suggesting is that you read what your writing?

It is rather remarkable to say the least, that Jesus or none of the apostles told anyone anywhere to go be a Christian. That is read in there. It is an interpretation. Because of Christianity many horrible acts have been justified, including slavery.

What I have said does not take away from God, Jesus, Christ head or body or the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the gate, but also my brother. Christianity is man's concept of what God is about and what it is all about. It is a point of view with many flaws in its teachings.

As I tried to say before, if you seek the truth you will get one answer. If you seek justification for why you believe what you believe you will get a totally different answer. Which means, whatever you seek you will find.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 4, 2011 7:30:16 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 4, 2011 8:50:33 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
re: Christmas music

That list of 25 groups was indeed illuminating. I've heard a few--Sixpence None the Richer (they had the hit single "kiss me"), Lenny Kravitz of course, Los Lobos, and Creed. And I went to YouTube and watched a vid of Point of Grace.

But you didn't list Christmas albums. Name me four Christmas albums by any of these groups that you think have superior female vocals and I'll try to check them out on YouTube.

However, I think I get the picture. You like Christian pop, right? Whose vocals aren't so much praise as preaching to music, with a pop musical sensibility?

No wonder you aren't impressed by Jackie Evancho. She will tell anyone straight out that she doesn't have a pop voice. She has a "classical crossover" voice.

So you don't like traditional European Christmas carols, Bach chorales, black gospel carols like "Rise up Shepherd and Follow," Rascal Flatts' a capella salute to the troops "I'll be home for Christmas," Brave Combo's rendition of "Feliz Navidad" as a cumbia, Sacred Harp carols like Sherburn ("While shepherds watched their flocks by night" with a very different tune/harominzation), the Mormon Christmas carol "Once in Royal David's City" (which has no Mormon-specific theology in the text), or Cesaria Evora's "Natal"?

That's just a handful of songs from about 50 Christmas CDs my wife and I have.

That's so sad.

So yes, Jackie Evancho would be pitiful trying to sing a Point of Grace song. Which is like saying a Ferrari is pitiful because it can't seat seven people.

I love a wide variety of Christmas music, but I haven't heard any in the Christian pop genre that didn't leave me feeling a little off-put by it. Perhaps non-evangelicals find it overbearingly preachy? Though I don't feel that way about black gospel songs like "Jesus dropped the charges" My devout Christian (but non-Evangelical) wife feels the same way BTW so it's not a Christian-non-Christian thing.

I played the Point of Grace tune for my wife and she felt touched by it against her will, she said (because it's a Country song with religious lyrics, and she doesn't generally like Country).

She added that the song was personal, while most of the Christmas music we play and like isn't so much--they serve other priorities.

Then I asked her if she could think of anything we had that was similarly personal, and right away she thought of Donna Summers' "I long to feel the Christmas spirit."

Does that work for you?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 5, 2011 10:41:01 AM PST
Google history or orgins of Christmas. There is some scary nasty stuff out there on the oragins of Christmas, just on the first page.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 6, 2011 6:06:25 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
We should neither forget the past nor be trapped in it.

Posted on Jan 6, 2011 6:45:09 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
We should neither forget the past nor be trapped in it.

Well aren't you trapped in it if you use the word Christmas, because of its history and origin? I mean if one disagrees then don't do it or if one is just going along with it they are saying they agree with Christmas and the origins of it. One either celebrates it and either knows the origins and agrees with it or they celebrate it not knowing what it all means (ignorance is bliss), but then are guilty with going along with it or one does not celebrate it, because they do not agree with the origins.

Here is the kicker. The pope instituted Christmas because the Christians wanted to have a good time so he came up with a Christ mass supposedly celebrating the birth of Christ, but Christians could go off and enjoy the mistletoe as the druids did and the Christmas tree as others did and throw in a guy with a beard and call it all good.

If a person cares about what God thinks, then they should be concerned about what Christmas really means and its origins.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 7, 2011 5:03:10 AM PST
B. Poole says:
I know what I mean when I say that. The reason we say put Christ back in Christmas is because we so often forget what we're celebrating. Yes, we know that Christ was probably not born in December (there have been studies back into the time those taxes had to be paid) but it really doesn't matter to us. It's the day that we have set aside to remember his birth - whether it the actual date or not. (My grandson celebrated his birthday a month early last year because it was the best time the family could be together and it was before school started. It did not make it any less special to him.) It is a long family tradition in my family that we explain to our children that we give gifts to the people we love because it's the time we are celebrating the fact that we received the ultimate gift - the greatest gift of all time. My three year old grandson went around the whole time shouting "Happy Birthday, Jesus". There is no Santa Claus in our home but I do collect Nativity Scenes. We don't read the Night Before Christmas - we read about Jesus birth from the Bible. I would rather believe what I believe and if it turns out I'm wrong then I have lost nothing. I've lived a good life and didn't lose out on anything. If it turns out I'm right, wow, what a celebration that is going to be! But what if the people who don't believe are wrong.............. He gave us free will "but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord."

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 7, 2011 7:06:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 7, 2011 7:11:29 PM PST
Ehkzu says:
re: shouldn't empiricists not use the word "Christmas"?

According to a recent Pew religious survey, the average empiricist--wrongly called "atheist"--generally knows more about Christianity than the average self-described Christian in any Christan sect except for Mormons. In general, Mormons, empiricists and Jews know the most about religion in general and Christianity in particular.

So the problem isn't ignorance. But the Prophet Muhammed said "Speak to each in accordance with his understanding." That is, we should choose our words to communicate, first and foremost. And in this case, instead of wishing friends "Merry Christmas," each time the opportunity to say so arises I could instead launch into a discourse for half an hour on the origins of Christmas and its long non-Christian heritage, wrapping it up by stating that while I'm an empiricist and thus don't hold with any supernatural agency of any sort, that I do share with most Christians a desire to wish peace on Earth, good will towards men, albeit for my own non-Christian reasons.

Or I could just say "Merry Christmas." I don't have to accept the theological overlays fervent Christians attach to this greeting in order to use it. Especially since those theological overlays are outside empiricist epistemology, making them meaningless syllables to us--while at the same time recognizing that they're meaningful to many, and that in using them I communicate good will and bonhomie to most, and to those who know me personally, they will know full well exactly what I think about such things, since I'm not reluctant to speak my mind. (When I grow up I hope to be like "True Grit"'s Mattie Ross in this regard.)

Many Muslims believe they have a moral obligation to murder me if I mention their prophet's name with anything but total reverence. I believe I have a moral obligation to oppose such barbaric beliefs.

I'm pleased that nearly all Christians aren't like that. But demanding that certain words be used only in the manner prescribed by a particular religion does have a faint whiff of such linguistic totalitarianism.

So I will continue to say "Merry Christmas" to friends--Christian and otherwise--and listen to Bach chorales instended for Christian listeners--and go to church with my wife--all the while being glad to state my own beliefs to anyone who's interested.

Lastly, it's not that I don't care what "God" thinks--it's that the most meaningful word in the English language to most Christians has no meaning whatsoever, positive or negative, to an empiricist, since the word is not empirically definable, and since empiricists stick to their knitting by dwelling strictly within the emprical universe. I don't deny "God" exists any more than I deny that "Glimsquatch" exists. I know more about the etymology of the word "God" than most Christians, but that has nothing to do with emprical proof; just as I can describe Balinese Hinduism in detail without subscribing to Balinese beliefs in same.

Which is why a true empiricist will be delighted to get a plainly religious non-didactic gift such as O Holy Night (CD/DVD). We will receive it using the handy protocol converter most empiricists carry in their heads to enable them to translate between their meanings and, in this country, Christian ones.

Posted on Jan 18, 2011 7:28:45 AM PST
Almostchris says:
Give them a large plate of haluski!

Posted on Jan 22, 2011 12:35:19 AM PST
L. Sandusky says:
Organized religion is offensive. These posts prove so. Glad to be a freethinker/enlightened one.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 25, 2011 10:37:49 AM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 6, 2012 8:13:44 PM PST]
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Discussion in:  Christmas forum
Participants:  130
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Initial post:  Nov 29, 2008
Latest post:  Dec 25, 2011

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