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The Led Zeppelin Discography Breakdown Thread


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Showing 151-175 of 890 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 1:20:53 AM PST
Greenalishi says:
Exile, right on! Nice review.

Gotta say the "Moby Dick" riff is one of Pages best. The drawn out version live you are so right.

You mention Keith's state of wastedness on "Happy". When i watched the Live At The Checkerboard Lounge DVD i thought. They would of never let him into a club in Chicago the way Keith looked onstage unless he was Keith. Very junky skin and bones look and eyes. : )

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 7:49:09 AM PST
Exile says:
Is that DVD worth getting, Anthony? The funny thing is Keith was supposed to have been cleaned up for 4 years at the time that was shot and he looks as much a junkie as he ever did...LOL

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 7:55:53 AM PST
Exile says:
No reason to feel 'hurt' about it. Surely you can understand what a chore it's been to get to the actual meat of the conversation in this thread. It's getting kind of laborious, actually.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 8:47:08 AM PST
A Discography Breakdown Thread. This is something most bands should have. It would give people a reason to talk about music again, instead of just voting.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 9:08:09 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 9:10:38 AM PST
vivazappa says:
My two cents on The Mighty Zep's discography:

Physical Graffitti is their masterpiece
Presence is very underrated
Houses is my favorite
IV has great tunes but got overplayed
Out Door has some fun tunes but you can tell it was getting to be the end of the road for Jimmy and Percy
III is intersting and I liked the style switch up from I and II
I and II were never my favorites but they changed rock at the time they came out
The Song Remains the Same is fine to listen to but tough to watch
How the West Was Won is the true live document
Coda was necessary to fill in the blanks

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 10:48:18 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 11:32:16 AM PST
AlexMontrose says:
Alex : How 'bout this...he could sing that way at that time, Episode Six didn't have the type of music where he would. Does that make it better."

Topper : No, of course not, I already addressed this issue in detail in the last post and you are totally ignoring what I said. Like usual.

You already addressed that....LOL. That's Topper in a nutshell. Of course I ignored it. Your details mean nothing to me unless they address common sense. Which you very rarely do. You address what you can see on youtube and if it's not there you don't have the imagination to even acknowledge the possibility.

The reason your argument falls flat on it's face is for 25 reasons I've already given plus the fact that from the day you appeared on Amamom you've given your clinical, sterile, black and white, analytical, and sometimes Wikipedia infused opinions and condescendingly disguise them as facts. You addressed that already...lol. Okay so Topper has spoke and ????? It just confirms how out of touch you can be and only will go by what you can see. How someone can be so constipated that they can't even acknowledge the possibility that a singer who made his bones with an upper register wasn't doing that on Oct 15 1968 but *was* all of a sudden doing it on Oct 16 1968 is more of your insipid show me the proof nonsense.

I made a comment a few months ago that I remember you telling me or us you were an Atheist. You came back and said no you weren't, I'm an agnostic or an egg salad or whatever you are. Let's assume for the sake of argument you are an Atheist. Obviously believing in God is totally faith based. It's the ultimate leap of faith. Christianity is based on that faith, believing you were saved, etc etc. Christians hope this faith will pay off one day and....well you know where you're going to end up. Ones who don't believe or choose not to, according to the bible, well good luck with that. There's nothing we can see or touch that will make a Christian know that his faith is an absolute guarantee for the thereafter. A total choice one makes based on his or her beliefs. I bring this up because if there was ever a person who is the definition of someone who completely discounts anything based on faith, it's you.

That's probably one of the reason you dislike Jesus Christ Superstar so much because it's themes are so antithetical to your own beliefs. Regardless of the music, which I think is tremendous, you see it as Christian rhetoric, propaganda that you have little use for. Besides the fact that Ian Gillan sings so magnificently in it....

Point is......people do what they do, it doesn't always show up on youtube. In this case you have to make the leap of faith. That Gillan, while obviously having an upper register '67, '68 or '69 was just not in a situation where he needed to use it. Look at Iommi with Tull before Black Sabbath. Now I've never heard Iommi with Tull, just like I never heard Episode Six. And had no problem admitting that, so your insecure rant about me being so wrong about claiming Gillan sung with a high pitch during those years is more desperation. I assumed he did, you watched every youtube video of that band, said he didn't and I take you word for it. It doesn't mean that as soon as he went home from one of his gigs with Esix that he wasn't practicing his trademark high pitch, singing along with Little Richard, or singing at a bar with friends, etc. Ofcourse this would be something based on faith, common sense, knowing he was a singer and didn't just turn it off after his Esix job. There was still 22, 23 hours of the day that didn't appear on youtube.

But back to Iommi. I haven't heard him with Tull but I'll assume that he wasn't playing in that bludgeoning, down tuned style he was just a short time later with Sabbath. In your world he must have heard someone else play Iommi style or he never would have thought of it. In my world, he was Tony Iommi, someone who was playing Iommi style, just not with Tull for that short stint. But...there's probably no video evidence of Iommi *being* Iommi with Tull. Obviously this doesn't mean he never hit one of his bone crushing chords because you didn't see it on youtube. And again let me make it clear I've never seen Tull Iommi so if he did do it...it just illustrates that it was already there, waiting for the right opportunity. To discount that and say he never would have thought to play in that style until the day before he started Black Sabbath flies in the face of all logic and common sense. But again if there is no video evidence, this is where you base your beliefs. These are your "facts". I didn't see it, therefore it didn't happen. For your sake, I just hope you have faith in something, whatever it is.

Hey how are those Vast and Lucifer's friend reviews coming along?

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 11:08:02 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 11:35:54 AM PST
@Alex: no, the Iommi analogy doesn't work either, because there is no-one that you can point to playing like Iommi on record, before Iommi. So it doesn't matter whether he did or didn't play like himself with Jethro Tull, you can still easily pinpoint him as the first to play that way (thanks to that hand injury of his). The whole point of the Gillan thing is the *timing*--he wasn't singing in that style for years, then suddenly starts doing it months after Plant breaks through. In his case, you can clearly point to a precedent for his newfound vocal style. I'm not going to accept some fantasy that he sang like a mouse with Ep6, then as soon as he got on the crapper between gigs, starting busting out his high pitch, and that no one noticed or cared about this revolutionary, never-before-tried way of male singing because the band style "wasn't right". This is not "common sense", it's ridiculous.

"You came back and said no you weren't, I'm an agnostic or an egg salad or whatever you are."

You *still* misremember it; I said I wasn't an atheist, but didn't say what I actually was. This is a classic case of you, as usual, filling in blanks and then making assumptions, like I don't like JCS because I'm against faith or whatever. I'll give you this, though--I'm not a big one on faith. So you can go on believing in both Jesus and Gillan's pre-69 high pitch--except that in the case of Jesus, there's at least *one* book which talks about the man doing what he did at a certain time--and I'll believe what I believe based on empirical evidence, fact, and logical deduction. You know, the things that gave us the light bulb, the car, the airplane, the elevator, the record album, penicillin, the iPhone, and amazon internet discussion forums.

I'm not saying there's not a teensy tiny chance Gillan may have practiced his high pitch style before he heard Robert Plant. But you automatically assume that he must have, which flies in the face of what we do know of him (and of *any* singers) from that time. This is the kind of faith that has people jumping off buildings, thinking that god will save them.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 11:11:49 AM PST
Greenalishi says:
Exile it's a fun watch and listen. But not essential in my opinion. Weird what you said about him being clean. Sure looks like a junkie. And his gaunt glassy eyed facial expressions seem pretty self explanatory. The bouncer at the door even though he was Keith Richards probably said don't let him use the bathroom ;)

I gotta add that Zep II all the way through Page has just great riffs. Different than Zep I. Almost all rockers. Even "Bring It On Home" kicks into a rockin' riff eventually.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 11:21:47 AM PST
@vivazappa: I agree completely with every point you make about the albums, except "Presence". Also there's a couple of things on PG I don't care for, but overall it's epic. But we'll be getting to all that shortly...

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 1:20:46 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 1:23:58 PM PST
Exile says:
I know it feels like I'm dragging this out, but I'm not. I like to have a nice block of time to sit down before writing and that's difficult to come by at times.

Led Zep III

This has always been my personal favorite Zep album, probably because it's the least typical of their style. I also enjoy acoustic sounds and this being largely an acoustic album also helps. The first thing or two that leaps out at me are the arrangements and the lyrics. The arrangements are more intricate than before and the lyrics are more thought out than anything on the previous two albums. I can see why it took some time for people to adjust to this record after the guitar crunching riffs on Zep II, but time has shown this to actually be a step forward for Zep and is the start of a new, more intricate well-developed sound.

Immigrant Song - This may be the only song reminiscent of what we heard on II but even here Page doesn't go for too much. He makes his point and moves on. Plant's vocals improve on this album as well continuing the progression that started on II. They are less showboaty, less melodramatic but more intense in emotion and the guy knew what it took to make a song work when he shows more focus, like he does here. The vocal 'wails' in the song are a nice effect and it's a long way from the moaning on Zep I and pieces of Zep II. This effect actually serves the song very well.

Friends - I don't have much to say about it other than I like the song and, as I have stated many times already, Page on acoustic is tremendous. He knows exactly where and how to add those little touches to make it work. Again, the arrangements are tighter and show more focus than the first two albums, even if it doesn't rock as hard.

Celebration Day - I don't know how this song is received with Zep fans but I really like it. It's got a nice riff and it rocks..A song I play loud everytime.

Since I've Been Loving You - Well, what do we have here? Another Zep blooze song? Well, not quite. This one actually kicks some a-s-s!! Why? I've been listening to it and trying to figure out what sets this song apart from the other blues numbers Zep has done and what I have come up with is this...

Jimmy - He actually takes a more bluesy approach, and by that I mean he is squeezing every ounce of emotion he can out of every note. His playing isn't loud like in previous blues numbers but more intricate and detailed, using more technique than flash. That's blues!

Plant - Along with the music, his whisper vocal during the verses helps to build the drama in the song until it reaches the gut-wrenching emotion of the chorus.

Overall the song is less bombastic and more subtle whereas the emotion comes from the performance and not the volume...Again...growth..

Out on the Tiles - kind of an OK song, pretty cool riff..Not much else...

.....to be continued..

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 1:27:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 1:34:10 PM PST
Greenalishi says:
Nice Exile.

I love "Friends" and then the transition to "Celebration". Both favorites. But "Out On The Tiles" i really love, just a weird dissonant, angular mess of a song. Great riff weird singing, love that song a lot. But i love "Hats Off To Roy Harper" a lot too, so what do i know :)

Pages acoustic playing is very well described by you. I always trip out on the difference of many players of acoustic and electric. The most striking to me is John McClauglin. His acoustic stuff the Shakti stuff is so cool to me. His quick, stecatto style is perfect for acoustic. When he does electric he loses feeling for me. I love him but prefer him unplugged.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 1:55:08 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 2:03:31 PM PST
Exile says:
....Hangman, hangman.....

Gallow's Pole - Another good acoustic song. The only problem I have with it is it drags on a tad too long and the buildup is a bit anticlimactic. This is something I feel the Stones have always excelled in where by the end of the song all the pieces have come together to where it's a full blown assault.

Tangerine - This is one of the first songs I learned to play on acoustic. It's a pretty basic chord structure but Page adds so much coloring to the song. I hear several guitars, the 12 string and then it seems another one comes in with the verses that is higher in pitch? Maybe some real players can help me out here as I never progressed very far. Anyhow, this is a great song and the pedal steel is a nice touch.

*NOTE* I just checked Wiki and that 'higher pitched guitar' may be a mandolin compliments of JPJ. I plan on playing this song again later.

That's The Way - An easy song to dismiss as filler, and I suppose it is, but it's enjoyable filler. Page+acoustic= :)

Bron -Y-Aur Stomp - See Above...LOL...It's some killer playing..Fantastic. A fun song.

Hats Off - Anthony...LOL..I like this song also. I hardly think it's junk at all. Page plays the hell out of that slide guitar. I think the vocals would have been better served had they used less of that 'underwater' effect, as I call it.

Overall this is a solid album, if not a classic. I enjoy the hell out the sounds. Zep's arrangements are improving dramatically and the sounds getting more intricate and detailed. This progression would fully blossom on the next album, the one that, to me, seems to combine the best of Zep II and Zep III in one complete package...The folky and harder rock elements of both.

Zep II - 4.5/5...but I would probably round it up to five because it was such a landmark release.

Zep III - A style I prefer over II but as an album I would give it 4/5

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 2:01:18 PM PST
Yup, pretty solid. I think what drags it down a bit for me is a lack of energy at the end. I like everything on the second side (except for Hats Off, but that's a personal thing, I think it's a good song, it just grates on my nerves), but it doesn't seem to have anything it's working towards, no final say. Which makes it *just* a collection of good songs for me, but they are *very* good songs nevertheless. And you do get more of an opportunity to breathe more than the first two albums. Even with IV, they made sure to get some space in there. It's less exhausting than the first two albums.

And I think that as Plant worked on honing his vocal talents, he felt less need to just articulate wildly; there's more of a focus on his vocals on III than previously, I think, and he started to rely more on precision instead of just screaming atonally.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 2:05:38 PM PST
Exile says:
Nice description...I didn't want to go there yet, but had they decided to close with "Hey Hey..What Can I Do.." I think you would be looking at a near classic.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 2:09:13 PM PST
I totally agree. That would have been more appropriate; Hats Off just sounds weird in comparison to everything else on the album. I'm all for experiments, but it's a hell of a contrast, and always sounded out of place to me. Poor Tom and We're Gonna Groove were also done at around the same time; apparently, they weren't so enamored of those pieces at the time.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 2:42:16 PM PST
B. rogers says:
"Poor Tom" is awesome and "We're Gonna Groove" is one of my favorite Zep tracks.

"Led Zeppelin III", taken as a whole, features Robert Plant's best vocal performance, imo.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 2:59:12 PM PST
Buck Buckaw says:
It baffles me why "Poor Tom" and "Hey Hey..What Can I Do.." where left off III.

I can see them substituting for the last songs on either side of the vinyl.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 3:01:57 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 3:03:23 PM PST
Exile says:
I have one comment and one question...

I think the sound on "Immigrant Song" is amazing. It sounds as if it were recorded in a huge room, very expansive and open as opposed to a tiny recording studio. Great echo!

Also, has Page ever commented on why Zep went in this direction after the heavier Zep II? Was he short on ideas for rock songs at the time? Didn't want to get categorized as just another hard rock band? Maybe he felt he needed to rejuvinate himself and come back stronger?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 3:03:09 PM PST
Hm, yes. Although I really like Out On The Tiles. A lot. For me, the first side is pretty much perfect. Nowadays, something like Hats Off would be relegated to a B-Side, so I'll still give them credit for doing something different. If it had worked, that would have been even better.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 3:41:06 PM PST
B. rogers says:
Exile...I dunno about any of your questions...but "III" serves as an almost seamless bridge to what Zep would become with "IV" and all of the albums that followed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 4:14:34 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 4:15:33 PM PST
Buck Buckaw says:
Bron-Y-Aur was a privately owned pile of rocks down in Wales that Page and Plant retreated to prior to the recording of III.

There was no electricity there so most of the songs written there were written or worked up on Pages acoustic guitars.

I don't know about the circumstances surrounding the recording of "Immigrant Song".

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 3, 2013, 4:21:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 4:26:40 PM PST
Buck Buckaw says:
This from my Zep complete guide.

"The third album was recorded in a series of May/ June sessions at Headley Grange and Olympic studios. Some additional work was put in at the newly opened Island studios in Notting Hill and it was all wrapped up in Ardent studios in Memphis in 1970."

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 4:58:42 PM PST
The Crunge and Hats Off. The 2 worst songs in my entire musical library.
I do not know about Dave Mason, but I am sure his are better.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 7:03:10 PM PST
Greenalishi says:
I remember reading they were going for a folky CSN vibe. Also they just wanted to expand not be one dimensional. Page was into all kinds of music, every style, very experimental taste.

Hey Hey, Poor Tom, and especially We're Gonna Groove all rock. They should have done an EP. I know they were an album band not a singles band but a cool EP could have worked.

I love this record through and through. It really hold up to me. I know they took a lot of stuff from Rolling Stone at the time. To me all that stuff was just hatin' on a good thing.

Page was very good at getting a good guitar sound sometimes. He like a lot of guys used small amps like a Fender Champ but miked it at different lengths one on the amp, one for the room one a little further away. Sounds like the Paul on Immagrant Song but i'm gonna have to search around for that. It is a great sound on that song.

Posted on Jan 3, 2013, 7:33:20 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 3, 2013, 7:35:40 PM PST
"Led Zeppelin III"? Easily the most underrated LZ album, although its reputation has been partly redeemed over the years. This album is fantastic, and side one still rocks very hard so I don't know what all the fans at the time complained about. As Anthony says, this was Led Zeppelin proving they were not a one-dimensional band (although there had been variety on the first two albums--"Your Time Is Gonna Come", "Thank You", "Black Mountain Side", etc.), but on III there is a progression in songwriting and arrangement that points the way to future endeavors. There's also less theft and more original ideas than the first two albums.

Immigrant Song--a monster early metal cut. The riff is exciting, epic, magnetic, and Plant's vocal is stunning. For those (like Exile) who found the middle section of "Whole Lotta Love" tedious, this song just makes its point and moves on. Although I do also like the live versions where Page adds a scorching guitar solo at the end.

Friends--this is one of my top ten favorite LZ songs. There's more of an ancient, occult vibe on this album, and "Friends" is the epitome of that. Brilliant string arrangement, eerie backing vocals, and a bouncy acoustic rhythm that just gets under your skin. This was definitely not going to be a repeat of the Brown Bomber, that's for sure.

Celebration Day--probably my least favorite song on side one, but still a fine rock number. Very upbeat and energetic. The songs on this album tend to be (with a few exceptions) shorter than those on the first two albums, more precise while still as intense.

Since I've Been Loving You--the album's epic, I agree with Exile that this is a big cut above their earlier slow blues numbers. The performances by all four members show a mastery of tension and release, with plenty of the group's signature melodrama and a big sound, but with more subtlety as well. Page solos spectacularly throughout, with great feel; live, this was a showcase for Plant as well. Impressive.

Out On The Tiles--if LZIII is their most underrated album, this is their most underrated song. I *love* the riff on this track, and the chorus is sublime. I often put this one on repeat. To me this song could have fit among the hard-rock numbers on the next album, it has the same sound.

Gallows Pole--another classic. I disagree that the ending of this song does not build--the climax is tremendous, building to a total joyous frenzy. Although it presages the folky sound of the rest of the side, it also paradoxically works as a swinging hard rock workout. The acoustic/electric mix is superb.

Tangerine--I used to think this track was a bit dull, but love it now. A very pretty country-pop number, again shorter and more direct than their earlier pieces.

That's The Way--my one major disagreement with Exile for this album. This is another of my favorite LZ tracks. The acoustic work here is divine, and Plant's lyrics and vocal are among his very most heartfelt. Anyone who thinks Led Zeppelin were only about Vikings and hobbits should listen to this one. A bit longer than most of the other songs, but worth every second. The way the song stops, pauses to take a breath, then gently starts up again reminds me of what Rod Stewart would do a year later on "Mandolin Wind". It gives the whole thing a meditative quality.

Bron-Y-Aur--I agree that "Poor Tom" would have been a similar-sounding, but better replacement for this song. The stomping folk beat is charming and kind of catchy, but this song feels more like a sketch.

(Hats Off To) Roy Harper--yes, this is the weakest cut, although I like its eccentricity and the continuation of the occult feel of the album. But it's not exactly the kind of thing you'd want to play over and over again, and it ends the album on such a bizarre note that, as others have mentioned, there's no real summation of the album's statement of purpose (and the album definitely has one). "Hey Hey What Can I Do" would have been a perfect way to close this album, as it is a killer track that perfectly fits in style with the rest here.

Led Zeppelin III--one side of electric glory, one side of acoustic fantasia, with that mystical, pagan, occult feel throughout. Only the last two songs bring it down slightly. I do find it a bit odd that Exile says he enjoys this album more, but gives II the higher grade. Track by track song ratings:

1. Immigrant Song 5
2. Friends 5
3. Celebration Day 4
4. Since I've Been Loving You 5
5. Out On The Tiles 4.5
6. Gallows Pole 5
7. Tangerine 4.5
8. That's The Way 5
9. Bron Y-Aur 4
10. (Hats Off To) Roy Harper 3.5

Overall rating: 4.5/5, or an "A-" grade. Replace "Bron" and "Harper" with "Poor Tom" and "Hey Hey What Can I Do" and you have a five-star grade "A" masterpiece.
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