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The Honey Revolution

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Initial post: Nov 19, 2009, 11:10:52 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 19, 2012, 3:26:27 PM PST
Fans of natural living, good health and self healing, welcome to the Honey Revolution.

The Honey Revolution: Restoring the Health of Future Generations

Yes, I am a big fan of honey........... a believer actually. I am completely convinced that the main reason honey has been allowed to slip away from our attention in the last 100 years is that no profit is easily made by keeping folk happy and healthy using natural methods and simple herbs, foods and therapies.

Also, honey was never able to keep up in supply to the sweetener demands of a burgeoning population. Wine was popularised millenniums ago owing to there never being enough mead to see the winter through.

But honey is still very popular with a very small minority of the population. These prove to be a very happy, healthy, intelligent and productive group of people. Meanwhile those who consume honey substitutes in all forms continue to get fatter, sicker and more unhappy, spending fortunes on medical services and medicines which only perpetuate the problems and only offer symptomatic relief.

I have just been following the amazon discussion on the Swine Flu Vaccination. It disgusts me at how educated people can be so fixated on disease, fear and medicines, yet so opposed to simple self healing, simple foods and herbs.

If anyone is interested in improving their health by simple and natural means, it would be good to enjoy your postings here. Not much of the "official" material we get is to be believed these days, but honest people telling their own story and expressing their own beliefs can be very informative and uplifting.

Please note, persons posting for the first time: Your message may appear at the end of the messages list, which is pages away, unless you click on 'Show Newest First.' After the bottom message on this page, you will find a list of the entire number of pages.

The book referenced herein is truly revolutionary. Discuss it, read it, live it! It works for me.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2009, 11:19:32 PM PST
Intrepid says:
Annecdotal testimony is not scientific. There are no controls. No tests of cohorts. Not even any check of veracity. If you take a teaspoon of honey and lose 10 pounds by exercising 45 min a day, it was not the honey that helped your diabetes.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2009, 11:44:23 PM PST
Come in, Intrepid!
Have you tried it?
Are you simply expressing the bias of your own training and mindset?
And who needs to prove it to anyone?
Can you prove that it doesn't work for me?
No one can prove anything to anyone if they do not want to believe it.

Honey works! It has been 'proven' to honest people for millenia. It is always slandered by those who have either a cheaper substitute or a more expensive solution. Which category do you fit into?

If you like science, as in ' a genuine balanced appreciation for the scientific method,' then you can find reams and reams of scientific papers attesting to the benefits of honey. Indeed you will have to look for them though, as they are not as likely to be thrust into your hand quite as liberally as the Swine Flu Vaccine is.

Incidentally, had you read that book, The Honey Revolution you would be very hesitant to slander honey by making statements as you did, for fear of looking like an idiot at best or a biased and deluded scientist at worst.

Please do no depart the discussion, as I thrive on people who make statements like the cliches you just made. This will be interesting. Lets just hope not too many people join in to smother the conversation as I can see that you are as passionate against honey as I am in support of it. If I can't make a believer out of you it will be because you opt out of the game!



PS: What kind of proof do you seek? A bottle of honey whacked over your head might open you head, but not necessarily you mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 19, 2009, 11:54:48 PM PST
Intrepid says:
> And who needs to prove it to anyone?

I am not passionate against honey. It's just that you are unconvincing and have not presented anything credible.

> No one can prove anything to anyone if they do not want to believe it.
Nonsense. Studies that are well controlled, elegantly designed, prove things in science and medicine. I just expect no less from people who make outlandish claims.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 20, 2009, 1:28:32 AM PST
You mean you don't even like yourself? ...........................Sorry.

I am pleased to know that you take notice of good science. You will find the scientific logic, the referencing and the conclusions of Dr. Ron Fessenden a delight. You will switch to honey faster than a Spreadsheet adjusts its bottom line and live happily ever after!

But you must progress one step at a time to reach a sound scientific conclusion, which is time consuming and painstaking. It is even more difficult for folk who have contradictory basic premises to and regarding the scientific experiment involved.

There are none so blind as those who don't want to see.



Posted on Nov 20, 2009, 8:48:14 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 20, 2009, 8:50:27 AM PST
bothellbuyer says:
I suppose that if someone is compelled to put concentrated sweeteners on or in their food, honey is a better choice than highly processed sugars or syrups. But I prefer raw fruits when I want a sweet taste. And I have absolutely no fear of being called an idiot. Intrepid, thanks for a glimmer of rationality in this thread.

Posted on Nov 20, 2009, 10:38:18 AM PST
bothellbuyer says:
<I have just been following the amazon discussion on the Swine Flu Vaccination. It disgusts me at how educated people can be so fixated on disease, fear and medicines, yet so opposed to simple self healing, simple foods and herbs.>

I'm curious, John L. you believe in tetanus shots? Or is that something you plan to deal with via self healing, simple foods and herbs?

Posted on Nov 20, 2009, 11:14:26 PM PST
You are quite right, bothlelbuyer, about the fresh fruit, and we do live in a time when fresh fruit and vegetables are freely available in our supermarkets, and pretty much twelve months out of the year also.
By and large the masses do not eat much from these beautiful supplies. The girls who check out the groceries can scarcely tell a cabbage from a lettuce. However, the quality and flavour of all the more commercialised produce is declining, unless, of course, you grow your own, in which case you probably have not noticed.

The size, the appearance, the presentation, the storage and transport of them all is improving, and they are very affordable considering their value. But with the loss of flavour goes the loss also of the nutritive value, especially the sweetness and in more detail yet, in the sugars referred to now as glycol-nutrients. Natural honey from flowers cannot be so easily stimulated by chemical farming to produce nectar. The nectar (the Honeyflow, as we refer to it) only comes when there is balance in the environment between the temperature, the moisture, the plant kingdom etc. Natural Honey is thus the finest source of concentrated sweetener going.

The fructose portion of the sugars is proving to be very critical, and although it seems to never appear in nature in isolation, the agave plant is the source of a sugar that boasts a 90% fructose content, which I am told is far too high for general use. Our liver function is jeopardised in the absence of fructose, and doesn't seem to enjoy the High Fructose Corn Syrup in common use now in processed foods.

The honey (natural, real honey as produced from the nectar of flowers by honeybees) has the natural balance between glucose and fructose of about equal parts, or near enough. All honey varies considerably depending on the whims of plant diversity, weather, etc.

Indeed, it is our culture to consume too much sweet food, and most of us avoid being food cranks or purists, as this puts us off line with most of our social world. Honey is very useful in the changeover period as one tries to wean himself off the manufactured sugars. They, as it works out, are fantastic appetite enhancers, and our demand for sweeter and sweeter foods continues to increase with time, so trying to head off something like diabetes after a lifetime of sugar and syrup consumption finds one with an accelerated appetite for all food especially sweets.

Honey does not promote excessive appetite, instead it normalises it, boosting it for those with a sluggish metabolism and satisfying it with a normal intake (calorie wise) in those with accelerated hunger.

There is a safety component in honey also, as it is entirely storable, so in any distressed situation a jar of honey can be a life saver. Concentrated fruit juice will never do in acute illness what honey can. Sure, if you stay healthy, no problem. In a first aid kit, survival kit, or just in the pantry for me to fall back on when the fruit bowl is empty, honey comes up trumps. Honey all too often gets bundled into the `too much sugar' talk, despite the fact the average American consumption is only about a 1lb jar per year. Meanwhile the average of all sweeteners combined is about 140 pounds, which renders the honey content of the sweeteners debate statistically insignificant. Honey stands alone as a sweetener, and those who use it generously are remarkably robust, healthy, positive and happy. All scientific `opinion' to the contrary, it works for those who work it.

Those who denigrate it are usually challenged in some way by honey's effectiveness and squeaky clean image. The entire edifice of government, finance and social welfare, too, are in fact terrified of honey coming into prominence again, which it seems poised to do in the immediate future.

Despite the myriad varieties of fruit and the honey that comes from all those flowers, honey remains the superior sugar as it is the product of the flower. The flower is the procreative portion of the plant's reproductive cycle, and is to the fruit what sex is to life itself. Please don't ask me to prove to you what sex is as my bedside manner is not suited to such a discussion (I tend to call spades spades!).

Tetanus? I forget what tetanus is all about. I doubt if I have ever had it, although I could easily be a carrier owing to my having lived in a time when it was prevalent. But if I did get tetanus, yes, I would try my best to survive it using natural means as my forbears must have done a hundred years ago. I have already overcome a staph infection using such methods. Indeed, I have a great immune system, thanks to a great genetic inheriotance and my abstinence from using harsh antibiotics. My bout with staph was 35 or more years ago, so is probably considered irrelevant now. Fear mongers will be talking MRSA now.

I try not to sell my products using fear, but I do warn against the inevitable rises and falls in the cycles of mankind. But the odds against me contracting all the diseases in this world are extremely long. Maybe you had better quote me some grim statistics about how many people die every year (in the USA?) from tetanus. The numbers presented as percentages would be preferred. Also, how do those percentages compare with the stats for those who die of medical bungling, iatrogenic disease and degenerative diseases? Do I have a hope in hell of surviving a few more years? Or maybe tetanus, like staph is mostly spread in hospitals? Do you reckon that is why I stay so healthy on such soft medicines? ..................... that I avoid hospitals?

OK, guys, there are only three of us, so Intrepid, it must be your turn now to add some more rationality to this discussion. I sometimes wonder how rationality would go mixed with some science, but as long as it doesn't explode, I guess it won't be called terrorism. Is it maybe what produces spontaneous combustion? .................. uuhhhhh, Oh Silly me, that happens in hay stacks. I am confusing that with Spontaneous Remission in cancer patients.

Cheers, guys, thanks for your attention.


In reply to an earlier post on Nov 21, 2009, 5:35:03 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Oct 11, 2011, 11:43:16 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 21, 2009, 8:02:08 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 21, 2009, 8:12:23 AM PST
Intrepid says:
Yes, you can modify lifestyle and if heavy lose weight to then keep *mild* diabetes in control or "reverse" it. We stress that with all our diabetics. Our center even pays for a dietitian, mental health counselor, and certified DM educator out of pocket to try to help patients do that. If we did not care deeply about our patients and such responsible self-management, we would not spend our dollars doing that (we are not forced to).

A few patients are able to be disciplined enough about it and not need medications. But most of those diabetics still cannot get their **HbA1c down below 6.0%** without medications i.e. their prevailing sugars remain too high even with good lifestyles due to the state of their pancreatic tissue.

Others have far more severe disease of their pancreas. They can sometimes reduce need for medications with healthy diet and exercise. However, those with that level disease still need to have some medications to preserve eyesight and kidney function etc. **If you have few islet cells left**, then diet and exercise while essential, still cannot squeeze out enough of the insulin needed or sensitize cells enough to take glucose into cells without the help of medications.

I rarely prescribe diuretics for diabetics. ACE inhibitors and ARB's, are associated with longer life and preservation of renal function in diabetics in cohort studies. It is a national clinical practice guideline with high strength of recommendation [SOR] for diabetic care over age 55. Please take that seriously and consult with your personal physician about your specific needs.

Info if you would like to read more:

Posted on Nov 21, 2009, 5:30:53 PM PST
Mr. Leverage says:
John L. Smith, you really want us to pay 20 bucks for a book about honey? Is there some new "honey diet" out there now? This is ridiculous. As Intrepid says, point us to some REAL scientific evidence i.e. controlled studies, then people might be more interested in your book. Rambling on about nonsense gets you nowhere.

Sorry to break up your radiant energy, Mr. Smith, but these outlandish diets really bother me. You give people false hope in saying, "Try this! It WILL change your life!" It's all b.s. The one proven thing to help people out is exercise. Besides, when does the normal person add some sort of sugar to their daily diet? Tea and coffee, right? So me adding a bit of honey to my daily two cups of tea is going to be revolutionary? lol Good luck selling your book :)

Btw, I actually do use honey in my tea because I prefer the taste.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 22, 2009, 1:29:34 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 22, 2009, 1:45:54 AM PST
Thanks, Guys, for keeping this thread alive!

Intrepid says in effect that People with health problems (diabetes, I, II & III, obesity or any disease associated with excessive calorie intake) should never eat honey and that I am (in effect) a criminal for promoting my product to them.

Intrepid, what do you recommend that your customers eat? Have you some ethereal pill you sell them that is calorie free? Have you invented a process whereby they can convert air into energy without the aid of food? Have you enough customers that you figure you can generate sufficient income from if you simply let the fat ones starve to death, only to be replaced by more fat ones? Well, how long would it take anyway? Wouldn't some of them have enough calories stored to see them through 6 or eight months (in conjunction with your calorie free snake (oops, make that swine) oil tablets)? Admittedly we have lots of foods (?) on the market that are near enough to calorie free, as long as one doesn't count the calories in the chemicals used. Are these what you recommend?

R.Mejia, you are a wise man! There are so many ways one can cure himself/herself of most any and all diseases that it is mind boggling, and the cheaper they are to execute, the better, IMHO. Not to intone that buying anything on price is a good idea. But if you like growing Scandinavian butterballs in your garden, for instance, they will probably nurture you better than frozen peas from New Zealand. Any time money gets involved with the health advice and adjuvants used, one needs to start investigating and being suspicious. Yes, I realize that my honey works better for me than for those who buy it at the supermarket, for the same reason. My health doesn't make anyone rich except me! It is only other products I buy and the tax I pay that contributes to the system.

However, honey is brilliant for reversing (however temporarily) the onset of diabetes, and it is relatively cheap at the moment, especially the commercial variety, although quality is always at the risk of the buyer. It may not always be so affordable, so be alert. The people who resent "my" book on honey the most are also those less likely to ever read it, so you may want to keep their judgment in your suspension file until you have read it yourself or spoken to someone (besides me) who has (preferably someone with no pecuniary interest in honey or books). As you have discovered in your own life, making up your own mind about how to fix a problem is the most important step you will take along that journey. "My" book was written by a retired American Medical Doctor with a clean history of practicing good medicine already to his credit. He has no honey to sell. Only the book, which I trust he has also recommended to his previous customers at the practice (make that SHOP). That is probably one of the reasons why the price of honey is moving up (oh dear, it has just hit me! I wonder if he GAVE it to them?). His brother-in-law, mind you, is a beekeeper, so maybe you need to watch him closely and compare his advice with that received so freely from Intrepid. I think they call that a Second Opinion, don't they?

M.Leverage, thanks for entering the game!

I am selling them to my customers for 40 Australian dollars (Xrate:.93:1US$), so why wouldn't you see that as a bargain? But don't jump on me, Intrepid, I flew a whole box full of them out here when the exchange rate was very seriously against me, as I needed the information immediately to assist me cure my own Type III onset diabetes.

And "Yes, there is a new honey diet out there!" Thanks for asking. I was hesitating to mention it for fear Intrepid would rip my sox off again over it. It is called "The Hibernation Diet," and was the precursor to "The Honey Revolution." One author, Mr. Mike McInnes is involved with both books: he lives in Scotland and is a trained professional: a real scientific type! One needs to sit in front of Wikipedia (here's a take off for you, Intrepid) when reading his parts!

Dr. Leverage, people are interested in "my" book. That's why I bought the box full. I brought out six copies first, quickly reading one, and by the time I had lent, passed them around my kids, sold a few and all that stuff I ended up with none for myself, and I was dying of Type III Diabetes. I needed to read it again, and again, and keep using it as a reference manual. All that mind you, happening to someone who has been exposed to honey and bees since I was ten years old. I thought I knew everything there was to know about honey? HONEY? What could be new and exciting about honey?

I have never seen this REAL scientific evidence. I have perceived some, but it was mostly in the mind, as I only consider something real if it has atomic weight. Let's not split hairs over that one by discussing how much atomic weight there is in String Theory.

You rambling on about science is getting you to the same place, as I perceive it. But if nowhere doesn't exist how can we go there. Your statement is not logical if I apply Intrepids cohorts.

Don't worry about my energy, No need to apologise, as my energy has been quite good of late, and improving, as long as I stick to my disciplines and current understanding and avoid that swine oil. Well, sorry, I know you guys have invented Humanlike Insulin now: that Movie, "Babe" came along at just the wrong time for your mates in Pharmland did it not? Never mind, The Humanlike one is probably more profitable anyway, especially once we get past the cost of getting it developed and licensed. And who knows, maybe it will even help us control the overpopulation problem bit. Maybe there is a job for an old beekeeper out there somewhere yet!

If you are trying diets that are upsetting you, Sir, you should consult your herbalist and get some REAL advice, or at least read that book, "The Hibernation Diet." You seem intelligent enough that you would probably be able to put the picture together for yourself with the information in it. I highly recommend self-medicating (in moderation, and temporarily), self healing and following your own lights. Your training, although brilliant only trained you to fix others, and you were indoctrinated in the theme that you would never be successful in fixing yourself. I fear some heresy is in the brew on that one. But then maybe my own unusual experience with self healing was because I didn't get that much training. Perhaps I am the luckiest man on the planet.

False hope is serious stuff, and I too decry it. It is, however, better than no hope, on my slide rule, just the same. That's exactly why I did not want to use the swine oil for my Type III Diabetes. It gave me no hope whatsoever. I did not want to 'experiment' with it, as there were no cohorts or controls like me to compare with.

Please share with us here if you have run any controlled experiments in a scientific way to see if in fact it is not the honey that is keeping you so fresh and frisky? Tea is mostly water, you know? You could deny yourself the pleasure of the honey for a few months to a year couldn't you? You might be doing a great service to your industry.

You do well to have a taste for honey. It is amazing just how many people think they like honey but have never tasted it except in Honey Mustard and Honey Soy Flavoured Chips. You must be like me in having a good genetic inheritance.

In all fairness, However, I applaud you for not slamming the door on honey. It is OK to sit on the fence a while until you see which side is winning. A few weeks from now the Illuminati may well make honey injections compulsory for scientist, when you read what it can do for the brain function of rats. So, my answer is, "YES!!!! It is revolutionary" Indeed you have already joined the revolution and don't realize it, as I know they didn't teach you to put honey in your tea from the lectern. So you are a fine recruit for the revolution, as you are starting to think for yourself, take control of your own health, etc.

The queen bee puts out some very potent pheromones (mostly water, of course) but still with a very potent impact on all who live in her hive, in the fields and meadows around that hive, and even on the humans who consume the products of the hive, including and perhaps "especially" those who get the venom via direct injection with an organic and disposable syringe.

Study up 'melittin' in the scientific literature and see why you have already made the decision to 'run the risk.''

God Save the Queen Bee~


Oh, I forgot my footnotes. Can't quote references yet, as I need to write a page for Wikipedia, but I will start my Glossary Of Terms by admitting that Type III Diabetes is my editorial creation. I took the liberty of coining that term, as it seems you guys have been a bit slow about it. Can't open that Pandora box just now, however, as my dinner is imminent and no beekeeper can live by honey alone.

Posted on Nov 22, 2009, 9:55:03 PM PST
Fad diets never work. When you write a book about a successful way to facilitate health behavior change, supports a long-term healthy lifestyle, and works for most people, then we'll listen to what you have to say.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 23, 2009, 7:25:05 AM PST
John Smith said "There are none so blind as those who don't want to see."

Intrepid and Webster....from whom have we heard this oft-repeated mantra !!??

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 23, 2009, 7:28:06 AM PST

I think we can rate the Honey Diet right up there with the Blood Type Diet and the HCG Diet.

Posted on Nov 23, 2009, 8:00:18 AM PST
bothellbuyer says:
John L. Smith - Does this book you are promoting address grayanotoxin I?

Personally, I dislike the taste of honey (way too sweet) and I have co-workers who have bee hives and offer me free honey all the time. I have no use for it but then I say the same things about pickles, beets, asparagus and beef (other foods I dislike). If I'm going 'sweet' I do it with raw or cooked fruits and yes, I grow much of my own.

Am I apt to give credence about health-related issues to a person who doesn't even know what tetanus is? No.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 23, 2009, 8:26:15 AM PST
Michael, I'm coming out with my own personal diet. It's a little handheld device. Whenever you're feeling hungry, you just press the button and my voice will yell "STOP EATING!!". It's gonna be a hit.

I will also include these sayings as well.


In reply to an earlier post on Nov 23, 2009, 6:34:52 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 6:50:28 AM PST
bothellbuyer says:
grayanotoxin I -

I use mason bees as pollinators. They are safer to have around and are less disease prone than honeybees.

Posted on Nov 24, 2009, 7:37:30 AM PST
I can tell you one thing, if I ever decide to start up a cult I'm advertising in the Health Forum here first.....

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 7:43:10 AM PST
If you call it the "Uncircumcised Non-spanking Honey eaters"

You will get a ton of members.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 8:03:27 AM PST
I was thinking something along the lines of "Non-spanking non-vaccine circumsized milk haters and honey lovers who feel the government is in some sort of conspiracy with someone somewhere with some hidden agenda.....oh and science is all lies unless it comes from my sources." Its a little wordy so I'll probably have to come up with an acronym.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 8:14:38 AM PST
Intrepid says:
That sounds just wrong...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 8:24:11 AM PST
That sounds dirty!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2009, 8:25:41 AM PST
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