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Unvaccinated children/adults health history


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In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 7:12:24 AM PDT
czechbird says:
That is a very tragic story.
Just like this one:
Seven-Year Old Kaylynne Dies After Routine Flu Shot
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/February-2012/Vermont-Parents-Fight-to-Save-Philosophical-Exempt.aspx

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 7:37:07 AM PDT
Darks says:
"That would explain all the extreme denialism, recourse to nutbar websites like whale.to, personal attacks devoid of facts and logic etc."

Oh, the irony.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 8:10:59 AM PDT
mylynn1377 says:
All I have to say is that a good friend of mine had to bury her baby because some friends of theirs did not vaccinate her children and the baby contracted whopping cough. If you decide not to vaccinate that is your choice, but please keep your children away from mine. Oh and if you haven't noticed there is an epidemic rise in pertussis infection due to people not vaccinating their children.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 9:39:49 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on May 28, 2012, 9:40:25 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 10:17:35 AM PDT
S. Fischer says:
I am new to this forum so excuse me if this has been asked and answered, but mylynn's neighbor's baby dying did not make sense to me. Aren't newborns supposed to be kept away from other children while their immune system is weak. I am assuming that the baby was not vaccinated due to its age. If the baby had been vaccinated then it makes no sense at all. The vaccine either works or it doesn't.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 11:59:19 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012, 3:00:43 PM PDT
czechbird says:
It is irresponsible to allow your sick kids around other children, especially infants under 2 months of age. Sorry for your neighbor's loss.
Can you provide more details? Link to a story? ( this sort of thing always makes the news)
BTW, this article might be worth reading - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403 -
excerpt:
"Of the 132 patients under age 18, 81 percent were up to date on recommended whooping cough shots and eight percent had never been vaccinated. The other 11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the complete series."

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 12:22:13 PM PDT
R. jewell says:
To Intrepid,So you can say 100 % sure that vaccines do not cause autism.I have an atustic grandson.As for me I do believe they do.Every ones body is different,I would not try to tell others what to do with their or their childs body.RN

Posted on May 28, 2012, 12:40:41 PM PDT
Tricia says:
i really appreciate the people who are answering this woman's question and not taking this as their opportunity to jump on their pro vaccine soapbox. we also have chosen not to vaccinate and my children (1.5 and 4.5) have never been sick. we have found a wonderful pediatrician - tribeca pediatrics in nyc - who supports our decision and has a very less is more attitude about all medication.
i have never had an aspirin in my life, nor any kind of drug, although as a child i was vaccinated because it was the law and my father wanted us to do it.
as with all things what you THINK is more important than what you DO. our thoughts about our bodies, our health, disease, fear etc have much more impact than anything material you take or do.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 1:02:09 PM PDT
W. Stuhlsatz says:
Research how the incidence of autism and ADHD is VERY low in the Mennonite communities.
And I have 8 children. 7 of them are vaccinated, the last one isn't. She is BY FAR the healthiest. She is almost 3 and has only been ill 3 times in her life, and when i say ill, i mean mildly ill. it was always a 1 day or less illness. Also, you might want to research what Bill Gates has said on stage about using vaccinations to reduce world population...bad stuff

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012, 2:32:01 PM PDT
Janet Kay says:
I am sorry that a friend of yours had a baby that died of whooping cough. I find it hard to believe as zithromax and bactrim are very effective against pertussis and nebulizers and oral steroids are very helpful for the more serious coughs. I, too, would like to see the link to this as a death from whooping cough would have made the papers. I am a PNP and we see pertussis frequently in vaccinated children as the vaccine is not very effective.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 2:49:39 PM PDT
Since Janet Kay keeps touting drugs to treat whooping cough and discourages parents from getting their kids vaccinated to prevent the diseases, here are some side effects of the drugs, starting with zithromax:

"Diarrhea or loose stools; headache; mild stomach pain; nausea; upset stomach; vomiting."

"Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Zithromax:
Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing or swallowing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, throat, or tongue; unusual hoarseness; wheezing); bloody or watery stools; changes in hearing or hearing loss; chest pain; eye or vision problems; irregular heartbeat; mouth sores; muscle weakness; pain or inflammation at the injection site; pounding in the chest; red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; ringing in the ears; seizure; severe dizziness; severe or persistent diarrhea; stomach cramps or pain; symptoms of liver problems (eg, yellowing of the skin or eyes; dark urine; pale stools; severe or persistent nausea, vomiting, or loss of appetite; unusual itching); trouble speaking or swallowing; unusual vaginal itching, odor, or discharge."

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/zithromax-side-effects.html

So in addition to allowing your kid to get miserably sick enough with whooping cough to need drugs, Janet thinks it's great to give them medications that can cause these side effects - but trumpets the alleged shortcomings of a vaccine that can prevent the illness and the need for such drugs.

Something is not right here.

W, Styuhlsatz: "Research how the incidence of autism and ADHD is VERY low in the Mennonite communities.
And I have 8 children. 7 of them are vaccinated, the last one isn't. She is BY FAR the healthiest. She is almost 3 and has only been ill 3 times in her life, and when i say ill, i mean mildly ill. it was always a 1 day or less illness. Also, you might want to research what Bill Gates has said on stage about using vaccinations to reduce world population...bad stuff"

Uh-oh, something _definitely_ isn't right here, what with the descent into promoting a bogus vaccine genocide conspiracy theory.

Refuser would want us to strongly consider whether these posts are genuinely from antivaxers, or are plants from pro-immunization advocates wanting to make antivaxers look bad. See how hard it is to tell genuine antivax nonsense from faux lunacy? Frankly, I don't think pro-vaccination people have the imaginations to make this crazy stuff up. On that score, you've got 'em beat.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 2:51:59 PM PDT
Janet Kay says:
Andrew posted, "This makes me think Janet is a genuine antivaxer. "Ooo, you must have lots of time on your hands" is a typically hilarious rejoinder from woo/alt med people who themselves have spent lots of time laboriously constructing posts, only to see their foolishness debunked. One wonders how much time Janet has spent away from her nurse practitioner business when she could have been caring for patients."

It's true that I've spent more of my off time than I would like responding to this particular topic. My standards of care are very high, thank-you very much. But a voice of reasonable concern regarding the ineffectiveness of some vaccines, ie. pertussis, and the increase in very resistant s. pneumo, possibly due to prevnar 13, and the increase in autoimmune disease, and the increase in profits for certain vaccines such as pentacel, Flu Mist, Gardasil, and the inability of provax websites from people like Mr. Offit, who make millions from vaccines without stating his huge conflict of interest, causes me to keep posting.

No one is questioning how lovely it is to not worry about tetanus, polio, or diphtheria anymore, but the current schedule is nuts as I posted yesterday and should be questioned. I am not a loon, no more so than anyone else, but a hard working, dedicated public servant who cares deeply about the children entrusted to my care. When we teach parents who are starting solid foods for their infants, we teach them to start one food at a time, so that we can make sure the baby tolerates the food and we understand which food caused a reaction, should one arise. But with vaccines, we inject or feed in a syringe 7 antigens (more than that considering the different strains of each in some of the vaccines) and don't truly warn the families about side effects despite the lengthy warning in the package inserts of these vaccines. I am advocating taking it down a notch, slowing down the schedule, breastfeeding, looking for alternatives to crowded daycare centers when/if mom has to return to work, teaching about the importance of good nutrition, healthy exercise and activities, and a loving, structured environment for helping children to develop healthy immune systems in addition to a more reasonable vaccine schedule. That's all.

Posted on May 28, 2012, 2:55:35 PM PDT
Janet Kay says:
Andrew, antibiotics have loads of side effects, both short and long-term. It beats death, though, or 100 days of coughing, when someone is diagnosed with pertussis. Bronchodilators and steroids have many side effects, too, but again, better than death. I'm just saying that we have lots of whooping cough in well vaccinated children, so they end up with the vaccine x 4 or 5 AND the antibiotic.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 5:23:39 AM PDT
czechbird says:
As a child, I had mumps, chickenpox and measles. So did my sibling and all my friends. Those diseases were just part of life. No one died, no one was hospitalized that I (or my mother) knew of. Once you went through these, you knew you have natural immunity (which lasts much longer than a vaccine, safe or not).
I have never had the flu in my life. Neither have my dh or dd. None of us have ever had a flu vaccine. And we never will. I know sooo many people who say they got flu from the vaccine (some year after year), but it was milder. The government tells you the virus is dead and they must have already been sick when the received the vaccine - wow, what a timing!!
And don't get me started on the STD vaccine we should give our daughters at the age of 11!!!!!!! Some call it the cervical cancer vaccine. Which is a LIE. It's a vaccine against an STD. And not even good one. (I'm talking about Gardasil). Did you know that legal immigrant women applying for a green card a forced to take Gardasill shots!!?? Check the USCIS website if you don't believe me. Way to get the human trials done, huh??!
Needless to say, my dd will not get this vaccine ever!! As well, she won't be sexually active at 11!!

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 6:12:06 AM PDT
Janet: "...antibiotics have loads of side effects, both short and long-term. It beats death, though, or 100 days of coughing, when someone is diagnosed with pertussis."

Exactly. And vaccines (like the DTP shot, which blocks development of pertussis in many children) prevent the child from getting sick enough to require medical attention and needing potentially dangerous drugs like zithromax.

"But with vaccines, we inject or feed in a syringe 7 antigens (more than that considering the different strains of each in some of the vaccines)"

Have you considered how many antigens are contained in disease organisms that flood the body in a rampaging infection? Lots more than what would be contained in vaccines. Even without overt illness, children's immune systems are challenged by foreign antigens on a continual basis. And we've already been over the fact that the modern vaccine schedule contains far less immune-stimulating antigens than the vaccines kids got in the 1950s (smallpox vaccine alone, which isn't used because the disease has been eradicated by vaccination, used to contain lots more antigens).

Bottom line: the "too much too soon" argument doesn't hold water.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 6:15:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 6:17:12 AM PDT
czechbird: "As a child, I had mumps, chickenpox and measles. So did my sibling and all my friends. Those diseases were just part of life. No one died, no one was hospitalized that I (or my mother) knew of."

No one?

"Josh was your typical 12-year-old. He had lots of friends in the 7th grade. He played football and baseball, and he was a Boy Scout. He liked joking around with his friends. He played hard when he played sports; he was competitive, for sure. He rarely complained, and he loved to laugh."

"But, our world changed forever on April 13, 1996, when Josh died suddenly from chickenpox. I couldn't believe that chickenpox could be that severe. I was one of seven kids, and we had all had chickenpox as children, and we knew lots of other people who had it too. No one had ever died."

http://www.chop.edu/service/parents-possessing-accessing-communicating-knowledge-about-vaccines/sharing-personal-stories/sharing-personal-stories-chickenpox.html

"Did you know that legal immigrant women applying for a green card a forced to take Gardasill shots!!??"

Got a cite for that claim (not an entire website, but a specific citation)?

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 7:47:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 7:55:39 AM PDT
S. Fischer says:
Andrew, You've gotta be kidding. The reality I also grew up with in the early sixties is like czechbird's. We all (all is never all) had those common illnesses and were not worse for wear.
Fast forward to Andrew Kings 1998 when the chicken pox has been tamed and what do we get? Josh is reported of getting it at 12 (we all got it way befor 4 or 5) dying.
This is a tragedy. Compared to how many children (by percentage) that ever died from measles, mumps, chicken pox in the 60s and 70s vs the now .5 to 1.5% with lives destroyed by vaccines resulting in Autism and other ASD disorders.

Who knows how many other of our children were more mildly comprimised from 1985 through 2004 when California effectively removed thmerasol and parents became more educated. And yes some actually die from vaccines.
Please don't trot out the latest study about rates still increasing. A cursory examination will show that the data they're using is for children born before 2000. This is no accident because the industry doesn't want any study to show results of children born after 2004 since I believe it would show a complete drop in the rates (except for diagnosis inflation).

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 8:13:57 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 8:15:28 AM PDT
czechbird says:
No, none. I'm not saying no one has ever died, I'm saying my family didn't know anyone, even though "everyone" got sick. And since some of these illnesses are dangerous to adults (and possibly teenagers), parents wanted you to get them as a child. Oh, and I grew up in the 80's.
As for the Gardasil shot requirement, searching through INS website is like reading the tax code. So here is a link to USA Today article about it (no fringe anti-vax site):
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-10-02-hpv-green-card_N.htm

Posted on May 29, 2012, 12:02:39 PM PDT
Janet Kay says:
Andrew, what I'm telling you is that the pertussis component of pentacel, pediarix, Dtap, Tdap is not effective. I diagnose pertussis within months of children receiving their booster. The end up with the antibiotic AND the ineffective vaccine. PERTUSSIS VACCINE IS NOT WORKING!!!!!

Posted on May 29, 2012, 12:20:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 12:21:20 PM PDT
Refuser says:
Australia has canceled its government-funded pertussis vaccine program because pharmaceutical company doctors told them IT IS CLINICALLY INEFFECTIVE. Read about it here: http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/australia-cancels-pertussis-vaccine-program-because-it-is-clinically-ineffective/

Pro-vax voices on this Amazon comment board simply cannot admit when a vaccine is USELESS or DANGEROUS.

The DTaP (pertussis for toddlers) vaccine also lists AUTISM and SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) as adverse events on the package insert. Read it here: http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/the-pertussis-vaccine-lists-autism-and-sudden-infant-death-syndrome-as-serious-adverse-events-on-the-package-insert/

Watch this Andrew character claim that is ONLY A COINCIDENCE. Listen to my band the Refusers' song Only a Coincidence here: http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_8806138

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 3:30:24 PM PDT
Oh yes, the same group that recorded that smash hit, "Vaccine Gestapo". And you guys want to be taken seriously?

Autism and SIDS are not linked to the pertussis vaccine.

"One myth that won't seem to go away is that DTP vaccine causes sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). This belief came about because a moderate proportion of children who die of SIDS have recently been vaccinated with DTP; on the surface, this seems to point toward a causal connection. This logic is faulty however; you might as well say that eating bread causes car crashes, since most drivers who crash their cars could probably be shown to have eaten bread within the past 24 hours.

"If you consider that most SIDS deaths occur during the age range when three shots of DTP are given, you would expect DTP shots to precede a fair number of SIDS deaths simply by chance. In fact, when a number of well-controlled studies were conducted during the 1980s, the investigators found, nearly unanimously, that the number of SIDS deaths temporally associated with DTP vaccination was within the range expected to occur by chance. In other words, the SIDS deaths would have occurred even if no vaccinations had been given."

http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/aefi/immunization_misconceptions/en/index4.html

Here's some information Refuser didn't see fit to give this forum earlier:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/05/28/the-refusers-attack-oracs-readers/

Janet: "PERTUSSIS VACCINE IS NOT WORKING!!!!!"

All caps does not make your claim persuasive.

"The DTaP vaccine is 95% effective in preventing all three diseases that it immunizes against-diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis. It is 59-89% effective in preventing pertussis, while the protection rates for diphtheria and tetanus are higher. Pertussis occasionally occurs in children who have received the pertussis immunization, but it is less severe and has fewer complications."

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/pertussis-whooping-cough

Most parents would welcome a vaccine that offers their children a good chance of avoiding an unpleasant and potentially deadly disease, preventing trips to the doctor's office and expensive prescriptions for antibiotics and other drugs that are not as safe as the vaccine.

Thanks to czechbird for the USA Today article link. I don't know that I'd support requiring immigrants to get the Gardasil vaccine based on potential economic hardship, but safety is not a relevant issue. And given the frequency of importation of harmful infectious diseases into this country from places where vaccine coverage is not as good as in the U.S., would you mandate vaccination for new immigrants for any diseases? Or do you feel comfortable with unvaccinated children from other countries sharing your child's school and day care center?

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 3:40:56 PM PDT
S. Fischer says:
Yeah!! "Vaccine Gestapo" sounds about right.
I'd be willing to bet that the per capita rate of SIDS deaths in California has dropped dramatically since 2004 when thimerasol was mostly removed and parents were becomming more aware of the reported risks. In the 90s, SIDS was another apparently not so uncommon risk. Now I don't hear much talk about it.
Anyone have any numbers?

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 3:43:53 PM PDT
S. Fischer says:
I don't think there is a vaccine genocide conspiracy. I think there is a maintain our profits at any cost and make sure we don't have any liability for the damages we caused conspiracy.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 3:46:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 3:47:47 PM PDT
S. Fischer says:
No, Janet's claim is persuasive and is supported by research performed that shows that it was ineffective during the outbreak in San Diego. Actually worse than ineffective. The vaccine seems to be responsible for the outbreak.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012, 5:30:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012, 6:03:04 PM PDT
Andrew, you are like a broken record, repeating the same old tired and incorrect lines over and over again! Let us go over this one more time, the dominant strain of pertussis (84%) circulating in Australia and other countries also, is not in the pertussis vaccine! So can you please tell me the efficacy levels for the current pertussis vaccine against the dominant strain? Let me help...0%, which is shown by the mostly vaccinated cases of whooping cough!

Yet we are still being pushed to vaccinate with this ineffective vaccine, causing us to not only take the risk of adverse reactions to the vaccine but to still be unprotected from the disease as well, where is the logic in this???

Janet's caps may not have been persuasive to you but they were completely accurate, and this has been documented by many researchers now!

"States ending free parent whooping vaccine

PARENTS across Australia will no longer receive free whooping cough vaccinations because it is not effective in protecting newborns from the potentially deadly illness, a parliamentary committee has heard."
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/states-ending-free-parent-whooping-vaccine/story-e6frfku0-1226350174856#ixzz1wJ9WUNgy

"Many whooping cough victims have been immunized; Experts spar over prospects of new disease strain"
http://www.inewsource.org/2010/12/13/whooping-cough-epidemic-california/

"Whooping cough evades vaccine"
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20122503-23253.html

"Whooping cough beats vaccine"
http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/whooping-cough-beats-vaccine-20120320-1vibp.html
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