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Customer Discussions > History forum

Are the Prussians gone for good?


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Showing 51-75 of 226 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 12:54:33 PM PST
Suet says:
< The issue at hand has NOTHING to do with that! >

The issue at hand is Prussia, which, being in north Germany, had Plattdeutsch as its official language until the 16th century. Plattdeutsch is so called because 'Platt' means 'flat', as in the flat north German lowlands. Nothing to do with sailors ;)

Still, whatever the issue, you win as always! I don't know why I bother.

P.S. Someone who is bilingual in English and German posted that 'dimwit' is a good translation of 'Armleuchter'.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 1:23:01 PM PST
Suet says:
So they can rearrange the territories of the Länder if people want it?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 1:27:29 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Dec 7, 2009 7:37:54 AM PST]

Posted on Dec 6, 2009 4:07:08 PM PST
Lets talk about the Schwabish dialect of German now.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 4:48:24 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 6, 2009 7:47:11 PM PST
Suet says:
Schwäbisch - or North Alemannic as we smarties call it - is still spoken today in southwestern parts of Germany, especially river ports like Strassburg. It's a great deal like English, having evolved from boating groups. Schwäbisch has nothing to do with the "swab lands." It is a dialect spoken in river ports as a result of the boatmen having been exposed to many world languages, including Bullschittisch.

How am I doing?

Posted on Dec 6, 2009 5:06:20 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 6, 2009 5:06:38 PM PST
Du shafst gud.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 7:50:37 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:37:11 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 8:25:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 6, 2009 9:00:49 PM PST
Suet says:
The Lord's Prayer
(In Midwestern Plattdeutsch)

Uns Vader, de is in Himmel.
Heiliget is dien Naam.
Dien Riek sall komen.
Dien Will doch doon,
up Welt as dat is in Himmel.
Gäv uns dis Dag
uns dagliks Brod.
Un vergäv uns uns Schuld,
as wi vergäven uns Schuldners.
Un bring uns nich in Versuchung.
Aber spaar uns van de Übel.
Denn dien is dat Riek
un de Kraft
un de Herrlichkeit
in Ewigkeit!
Amen.

http://www.neemeyer.com/html/lords_prayer.html

I love reading this stuff. Note the consonantal differences compared with High German: tun --> doon, Tag --> Dag, gib --> gäv, das --> dat, etc.
The change actually happened the other way round: the HIGH GERMAN Sound Shift, 3rd-5th centuries AD. Low German and Anglo-Saxon missed out on it: that's why some of the words look more like English.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 9:09:29 PM PST
Suet says:
< The "Prussia" that is under discussion was an entity in the 18th and 19th centuries not the 16th. >

The Duchy of Prussia dates from 1525, when the Ordensland (the monastic state of the Teutonic Knights) was secularized following the Reformation.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 9:14:20 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:36:19 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 6, 2009 9:44:58 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 6, 2009 9:46:32 PM PST
Suet says:
< a great deal like Dutch >

Yes Izzie, I've mentioned before that Dutch, Frisian and Anglo-Saxon as well as Plattdeutsch are classed by philologists as "Low" (i.e. north) German languages. They all missed the "High" (i.e. south) German Sound Shift.

Before I milk the cows I would like to know if you have one citation to support your assertions about sailors, seaports etc, and Low German having nothing to do with the North German Lowlands.

Just one.

Posted on Dec 6, 2009 10:28:10 PM PST
B. A. Dilger says:
Southern Germany in the mid-19th century was the last bastion of freedom against the Prussian influence led by Bismark. My ancestors on that side maybe emigrated to America to get away from the Prussians. They were close to the Swiss border and in Baden-Wurttemberg, the last resistence?

Posted on Dec 7, 2009 6:41:46 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 7, 2009 6:49:07 AM PST
Issabella says,
Oh pulezze! The, "Prussia" that is under discussion was an entity in the 18th and 19th centuries not the 16th.
-------------------------------------------

Thats the problem with words and definitions, one can think one thing, and one can think another. The original Pruss People were Slavic...their language was Slavic...Prussian has come to mean diffrent things now. The OP could refer to German Prussians who during WWI and WWII lost Prussia...or it could refer to the slavic prussians who lost their homeland to German invaders...

"The name Prussia derives from the Old Prussians, a Baltic people related to the Lithuanians and Latvians. In the 13th century, "Old Prussia" was conquered by the Teutonic Knights. In 1308 Teutonic Knights conquered the formerly Polish region of Pomerelia with Gdañsk (Danzig). " --wiki

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2009 6:44:02 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 7, 2009 6:46:50 AM PST
<<"
Herman B. says:
Du shafst gud.">>

LOL

When you learn German, then get back to us.
----------------------------

Whats wrong with my Scwabish...

Du (you) shafst (scwabian for work, arbeiten [it is missing the umlaut I think]) gud (scwabian for gut, good)
__________________________________________

Issabella,

Armleutcher= "poor laugher"??

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2009 9:52:16 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:45:15 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2009 11:03:37 AM PST
Mark bennett says:
"That seems to say more about your fixations than about Reck-Malleczewen's."

And that suggests that you are incapable of engaging in a discussion on this subject.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 7, 2009 11:15:54 AM PST
Mark bennett says:
"So they can rearrange the territories of the Länder if people want it?"

It could have happened in 1990 or shortly after. But it was rather deliberatly decided to create a "Brandenburg" rather than recreate Prussia.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2009 6:21:56 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 9, 2009 7:28:58 AM PST
Suet says:
Hi Herman,

One literal meaning of Armleuchter would be "poor shiner". That's why I say "dimwit" is a good translation.

Or it could be something ruder.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2009 8:12:22 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 9, 2009 5:52:07 PM PST
Suet says:
Isabella says: < The ancient Platt to which you refer has not been used in hundreds of years. >
......................................................................................................................

Low German/Low Saxon (Plattdüütsch/Nedderdüütsch)

"In Germany the name (Niederdeutsch/Plattdeutsch) is used as a general label for Low Frankish and Low Saxon varieties that happen to be used on German soil ... These are used in Northern Germany and in the eastern parts of the Netherlands."

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lowgerman.htm

Low German ('Niederdeutsch')

"Low German is used in the region north of Benrath line [Aachen to Frankfurt a.d. Oder]. Germany's capital Berlin and major cities like Hamburg or Düsseldorf all feature Low German dialects ... Low German dialects sound like Dutch or even English rather than standard German."

http://www.language-capitals.com/german_varieties_low_german.php

Low German (Plattdeutsch, or Niederdeutsch)

"Low German, with no single modern literary standard, is the spoken language of the lowlands of northern Germany."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/230814/German-language#

Do I need to go on?

Posted on Dec 9, 2009 7:44:49 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:45:13 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2009 7:49:20 PM PST
ok ok all this arguing still doesn't answer the question...Are the Prussians gone??? Was it a holocaust??

Posted on Dec 9, 2009 7:56:47 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:45:13 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 9, 2009 8:20:41 PM PST
Suet says:
Well Izzie, I could go on posting citations all week, and you post none, but it would be no use - you would still be right, at least in your own mind. I give up.

Posted on Dec 9, 2009 9:12:48 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2010 3:44:20 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 10, 2009 6:58:20 AM PST
Suet says:
Isabella warns: "Wiki is not always your friend."

My citations on this page were:
http://www.neemeyer.com/html/lords_prayer.html
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lowgerman.htm
http://www.language-capitals.com/german_varieties_low_german.php
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/230814/German-language#

Not one was from Wikipedia. And they all flatly contradict you.
Aw heck, I said I wasn't going to contest this ...
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Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  31
Total posts:  226
Initial post:  Nov 28, 2009
Latest post:  Mar 15, 2015

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