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Customer Discussions > History forum

Why Do So Many People Automatically and Angrily Condemn Historical Revisionism?


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In reply to an earlier post on Jul 7, 2013, 2:46:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 7, 2013, 2:52:51 PM PDT
Mellotron says:
I can't remember the sources at this moment, but from I know, the Celts had an educated, priestly class. I'm not exactly sure about the bards (although they also learned many oral historical traditions and myths), but the Druid priests acquired a vast amount of knowledge during their 20 years of education. I understand that they knew Greek, and would sometimes write in Greek, but they never wrote things down very often. That is why so little is known about them, but
the Celtic Druids were certainly NOT illiterate!
It is rather frustrating that little mention is made of them in these discussions.
I think I've posted this in the wrong place. This was in reply to one of Judith's comments. It was an older discussion.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 17, 2012, 8:16:06 AM PST
S. Kessler says:
I thought it was very good and very thorough.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 17, 2012, 6:30:44 AM PST
Far Lefkas says:
>>>how often the expression "professional" has come to be used<<<

Reminds me of Erving Goffman's comment in the last chapter of his "Asylums," whether in the "tinkering" trades (old radio fix-it shop) or in the medical doctor's office, @some point, the white coat is put on. "Professional" was created to force that specialization, which tacitly means separating some people from others: we'd prefer that "equality" remain locked in that Declaration of Ind., to pet & preserve.

Posted on Feb 16, 2012, 4:01:31 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 16, 2012, 4:36:36 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 4:00:05 PM PST
Aren't we over that yet? (S. Kessler)

Well, I suppose if nobody is interested in further comment we might be. However I came across this and thought there were some interesting questions and links in it. I am no fan of Zinn but like JR Fleming posted he should at least get a hearing. I think there are a number of things in this that have been addressed as well but it is just another reading of what we have been discussing. By the way what did you think of it?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 3:30:12 PM PST
S. Kessler says:
Aren't we over that yet?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 16, 2012, 2:58:02 PM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Jun 18, 2012, 12:48:16 PM PDT]

Posted on Feb 16, 2012, 1:22:26 PM PST
A little something on Howard Zinn

http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/we-the-people-considering-howard-zinns-approach-to-history/

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 11:54:33 PM PST
Really informative Post and I appreciated reading a concise and condensed historically factual out-lne. You answered many questions I've always had about this era but was honestly never compelled to research in-depth.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 9:05:37 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 15, 2012, 9:06:58 PM PST
Yes, they are sour grapes. Sometimes the grapes really *are* sour.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 7:19:46 PM PST
S. Kessler says:
Sounds like sour grapes to me. Ah, the old days were soooooo much better. Or not.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 6:36:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 16, 2012, 12:00:05 AM PST
I got suspicious when everything got more expensive: ... athletes w/ the most zeros in their salaries ... long w/ the inflated self esteem came inflated value & the inflated staff: (Far Lefkas)

Note also how often the expression "professional" has come to be used. I see professionals very narrowly --- i.e. athletes, lawyers, doctors, elite businessmen, and accountants. Now everybody seems to be professional at something. We have also elevated clerks to "associates" and there are myriad other "re-delegations" for entry level jobs. A salesman is now an "account manager" and a teacher is an "educator" I like calling teachers as teachers and believe teacher carries a much greater sense of gravitas. I see it as there being a paucity of self esteem and an entity we can no more give anybody than the revolution of the earth around the sun. Self esteem comes from within and like money in the bank is backed by the credibility of achievement. Not even real titles mean anything if you aren't backed up by adequate experience or education.

Posted on Feb 15, 2012, 6:18:09 PM PST
Far Lefkas says:
>>>I don't think they have a sense of working as hard to achieve and are products of inflated self esteem<<<

I got suspicious when everything got more expensive: altho I think that really began in the 80s, when "leveraged buyouts" were popular. Then athletes w/ the most zeros in their salaries got the most press. Along w/ the inflated self esteem came inflated value & the inflated staff: companies still want more "mgt.," & so do the armed services.

This was brought to my attention some time back, after Barrack Obama became President: Harry Truman had a W.H. staff of six; Obama has more than 100. When my brother started @Walmart HQ in Bentonville, there were 2 mgrs. for every 100 employees; when he left almost 20 yr later, there 15 mgrs./100 employees.

Yet even inflated value & self esteem go way back: during the Depression, a guy named Al Broasberg made $1K/wk to doctor scripts (he worked a lot on Marx Bros. movies).

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 15, 2012, 4:59:03 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 16, 2012, 12:01:42 AM PST
The arrogance of the Baby Boomer is based on ...
The thinking goes like this "If we invest in this, it will change things for the better in the future..."
Then all the other generations get their debt...their outmoded, short sighted vision, that they have to pay for. Including the erasure of racism, ethnocentrism, sexism...like its just a matter of education. (the sad clown)

Being a Boomer myself, I agree with your screed. I never bought into what I saw or felt from our generation. Of course it was only a gut level feeling but you seem to validate what my sense of things were/are. I think we are a selfish generation however, we did contribute the PC in an advanced form and it continues to be improved on today. That said, I think today's generations are ruder and less sensitive to the generations preceding it. I don't think they have a sense of working as hard to achieve and are products of inflated self esteem - of course that in truth was our idea of parenting vision - so we get what we sew!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 8, 2012, 5:34:22 AM PST
Far Lefkas says:
>>>And including the images of the Holocaust. EVERYONE has seen those, and experience the groupthink<<<

Even that took time to develop. One of the first appearances of Holocaust images was in the Orson Welles movie, The Stranger (1946), w/ Edw. G. Robinson as a Nazi hunter: "Holocaust," "Nazi hunter" weren't part of the vocabulary back then. In fact, Holocaust wouldn't become a pop term until the Eichmann trial (1961).

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 7, 2012, 8:36:08 AM PST
yba says:
You will getno argumentsfrom me on that. Peace,however, like war, takes more than one partner to accomplish.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012, 6:07:48 PM PST
Far Lefkas says:
>>>The British left because <<<

British also left because its army was decimated by using troops as constabulary force to put down armed rebellions: not just in Palestine but in Iraq & India too. Empire building was archaic but also, w/ WWII, impractical & dangerous.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012, 3:00:15 PM PST
freedom4all says:
yba, eventually the Arabs will learn to fight and get nukes. It may take a while but it will happen. I hope Israel makes peace first.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012, 2:58:06 PM PST
freedom4all says:
The same is true for the middle east, those boundary were carved out after WWI by the British (Churchill) and will continue to be problematic.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 6:46:09 PM PST
cbk says:
Darth: Try a brief Google search before posting to see if what you write is even close to the truth. Your posts will read like it was written by a well informed person rather than one written by a rank amateur who has no clue what he is talking about. Googling "Hiroshima military target" brings this up:

OR... you could realize that most people on these fora are exactly that - 'rank amateurs'. If you would come down off your pedestal and simply answer peoples' amateur questions instead of mocking and insulting them, there might be more learning here.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 3:01:46 PM PST
Aetius says:
yba says:
Then they should not have started a war. You do not start a fight then cry because you lose it and pay the consequences of your mistake.
-------------------
Using that logic, it was ok for Soviet troops to rape German civilians in Berlin during WWII, deport thousands to virtual slavery in Siberia, or to install a socialist dictatorship in East Germany for forty five years because "they started it".

"If that were so, there would be not deterrent to anybody trying to be a bully, "

There is to a certain extent, international law, which also prohibits the forced movement of peoples and the limitations on rights even for people who are the same ethnic group who "started it".

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 2:27:18 PM PST
yba says:
Then they should not have started a war. You do not start a fight then cry because you lose it and pay the consequences of your mistake. If that were so, there would be not deterrent to anybody trying to be a bully, which is what happened in the later 1940s and after. Nobody I know of disputes this. Do you have information the rest of the world is not privy to?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 2:23:56 PM PST
Aetius says:
yba says:
Had not the British left, you would have a point.
-----------------------------------------------------
The British left because they had promised both the Jews and the Palestinians eventual independence and the concept of "spoils of war" and Empire building was viewed as archaic outdated notions that had no place in the modern world by the ruling Labour government of the UK.

"your point is analogous to hypothesizing what would have happened had the American settlers left the lands West of the Mississippi after they had conquered them. "

The point was that Israel (as well as Jordan) only exists because the British voluntarily gave up the concept of "spoils of war" and you avoid the other issue, that of international law which prohibits the forced movement of peoples and the limitations on rights.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 2:00:18 PM PST
yba says:
Had not the British left, you would have a point. But, the British did not leave so your point is analogous to hypothesizing what would have happened had the American settlers left the lands West of the Mississippi after they had conquered them.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012, 1:56:25 PM PST
yba says:
And so life goes. justice is something that is an abstract in modern times, subject to the whim and whimsy of the majority.

Thanks your post.
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Discussion in:  History forum
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Total posts:  2641
Initial post:  Dec 10, 2011
Latest post:  Jul 7, 2013

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